"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Does anyone understand why there is no decision on Floyd yet?

Because I don't.

There were some interesting theories on this in another thread. One person speculated that perhaps the thing is going to get dropped on a technicality. In that case, if the announcement is delayed then it is sort of like banning him anyways since he can't ride until a statement is made if in fact they found him not guilty.

Now if they did find him guilty then the delay makes no sense. They should just get it over with and move on.

Who is responsible for the delay anyway? How many times has it been said that "we will make an announcement by X date" and then it never happens? What a joke!

who's Floyd?

He should have taken the two year ban, saved his money, and gotten it over with. When the decision finally does come down, either way, it will still end up going to the CAS on appeal and at the rate things are going it will end up being more than the original two years.

He should have taken the two year ban, saved his money, and gotten it over with. When the decision finally does come down, either way, it will still end up going to the CAS on appeal and at the rate things are going it will end up being more than the original two years.

Your analysis is probably right and it is one of the saddest things about the case.

Because I don't.

They're going to wait until late-June, 2008, so they can get the most mileage out of it.

who's Floyd?


uh huh...

Because I don't.

They are taking tests...here's one of the answers that they gave...

Here's another...take note of how this person spells "straight"...kind of Freudian, I think.

If they were going to find him guilty, they'd have already done it. At least some of the arbitrators must want to acquit, the the powers that be are delaying as long as possible to make Landis' defense costs as high as possible, in order to discourage other riders from fighting the system.

If they were going to find him guilty, they'd have already done it. At least some of the arbitrators must want to acquit, the the powers that be are delaying as long as possible to make Landis' defense costs as high as possible, in order to discourage other riders from fighting the system.What costs is Landis incurring while he awaits the ruling?


He should have taken the two year ban, saved his money, and gotten it over with. When the decision finally does come down, either way, it will still end up going to the CAS on appeal and at the rate things are going it will end up being more than the original two years.But if he prevails, he remains TdF champion officially. Also, once two years have elapsed since his last race, can he actually be prevented from racing?

Your analysis is probably right and it is one of the saddest things about the case.

That's right IF he's guilty. If he is not and he takes the 2 year suspension, he would commit an infraction far greater than doping. Our society offers nearly everyone a chance to defend themselves. The rush to judge Floyd has made me wonder how many in the cycling community would embrace reversing the "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

There were some interesting theories on this in another thread. One person speculated that perhaps the thing is going to get dropped on a technicality. In that case, if the announcement is delayed then it is sort of like banning him anyways since he can't ride until a statement is made if in fact they found him not guilty.

Now if they did find him guilty then the delay makes no sense. They should just get it over with and move on.

No such thing as a technicality in arbitration. The whole point of arbitration is to render a binding decision.

Simple, they can't convict him so they're going to stall until he can't come back to the sport. Who else is proud to be an American?

What costs is Landis incurring while he awaits the ruling?

Lost income. Nobody will sign him until he's exonerated.



If they were going to find him guilty, they'd have already done it. At least some of the arbitrators must want to acquit, the the powers that be are delaying as long as possible to make Landis' defense costs as high as possible, in order to discourage other riders from fighting the system.
+1. My guess is they're trying to figure out how to spin his acquittal to not make themselves look like imbeciles.

What costs is Landis incurring while he awaits the ruling?

But if he prevails, he remains TdF champion officially. Also, once two years have elapsed since his last race, can he actually be prevented from racing?Legal fees. Lawyers are expensive. He can't race without a team. Do you really think any team will touch him with this hanging over him?

+1. My guess is they're trying to figure out how to spin his acquittal to not make themselves look like imbeciles.That'll be a good trick, if they can do it.:)

Lost income. Nobody will sign him until he's exonerated.

+1. My guess is they're trying to figure out how to spin his acquittal to not make themselves look like imbeciles.

+1 here. Stakes may be high because now the lab in question is gonna have to provide answers whether or not they made mistakes. The tour organizer is tied closely to lab so they would have to find a political twist to this becuase of the hard line and public conviction they took (and continue to take).

Simple, they can't convict him so they're going to stall until he can't come back to the sport. Who else is proud to be an American?To paraphrase H. L. Mencken, In every life there is something to be thankful for. I thank God I am not French. :D

It's comforting to know I can come here for further confusion at all times.

I don't think its anything nefarious. Lots of time it takes longer to get decisions after hearings than you'd like. I have cases that have been going on for over 9 years.

Not an arbitration, but I have one case where we're coming up on 3 years after a hearing on a motion for summary judgement, and still don't have a ruling.

If 2 arbitrators had made up their mind to acquit him, they could report a decision.

My assumption is one or more of the Arbitrators believes its a very close call, wants to do a thorough analysis of all the testimony, and hasn't gotten off his butt to do so.

They are taking tests...here's one of the answers that they gave...

I remember the first time you posted those. I laughed so hard I nearly choked.

Michael Vick will probably play football again before Floyd is back.

Sad

I don't think its anything nefarious. Lots of time it takes longer to get decisions after hearings than you'd like. I have cases that have been going on for over 9 years.


9 years for decisions is business is usual? Doesn't that just signal that fact that anyone who enters the legal system is utterly F'd? That's one helluva Reality Distortion Field (RDF). Fascinating. Terrifying, yet fascinating.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing but respect for the legal process. But this is too disturbing. Why is there no time pressure on these pinheads to render a verdict? What's UP with that? I just don't GET it.

I don't think its anything nefarious. Lots of time it takes longer to get decisions after hearings than you'd like. I have cases that have been going on for over 9 years.

Not an arbitration, but I have one case where we're coming up on 3 years after a hearing on a motion for summary judgement, and still don't have a ruling.

If 2 arbitrators had made up their mind to acquit him, they could report a decision.

My assumption is one or more of the Arbitrators believes its a very close call, wants to do a thorough analysis of all the testimony, and hasn't gotten off his butt to do so.

+1

This is not unusual at all.

Yes, I understand why.

+1

This is not unusual at all.

But this is unacceptable. Unless, of course everyone decides it's all fine and dandy. In which case you get what you get. Which in this case is nothing. Absolutely nothing at all.

What a country. Oh wait, that's France. Never mind. And now it may be less suprising that they needed huge bailouts in two successive global wars. But I hear the trains run on time. That's something.

+1

This is not unusual at all.

If that's the case then why have they (on more than one occasion) said we are going to have an announcement on X date and then nothing happens, then they repeat that statement...

If they thought it was close call wouldn't thye keep their mouth shut and just say "we are working on it" or something similar?

But this is unacceptable. Unless, of course everyone decides it's all fine and dandy. In which case you get what you get. Which in this case is nothing. Absolutely nothing at all.

What a country. Oh wait, that's France. Never mind. And now it may be less suprising that they needed huge bailouts in two successive global wars. But I hear the trains run on time. That's something.

they make good pastries, chocolates, cheese and lavender soap, but that's about as far as I go with them

Patentcad, it is consider business as usually because it is the pinheads who make the legal system... what do they care if you are screwed.

Also, the French believe in guilty until proven innocent. In most places, they can do what they wish for up to 3 years.

Every bicycle I own is broken and I'm here talking about France.

That's right IF he's guilty. If he is not and he takes the 2 year suspension, he would commit an infraction far greater than doping. Our society offers nearly everyone a chance to defend themselves. The rush to judge Floyd has made me wonder how many in the cycling community would embrace reversing the "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

IF he is really guilty the long wait for this decision is almost as sad. The WADA system is neither swift nor just. And being so slow is rather unjust. In any case, Landis, Pereiro, and the fans deserve to know the outcome so we can move on.

The WADA system (as actually practiced not as codified) encourages pleading guilty regardless of the actual guilt of the accused. Once accused, there is a slim chance of official acquittal, no chance of full acquittal (official and public) and a huge chance of a pointless waste of time, money, and effort.

If you are was merely arguing in an academic debate then you are absolutely correct. An innocent person should fight the accusations to the end. However, this is reality and the real consequences of that fight must be addressed. In doping cases there are always real costs putting up that fight. The saying, "You have to pick your battles" is apt. If you ignore the costs of putting up the fight then your point is worthless. In this case, Landis losses regardless of his actual guilt and regardless of the verdict.

If we accept, for the sake of discussion, that Landis wasn't doping (at least in the manner accused) and he fights and defeats the accusations against him thereby spending his family's savings (at least a big chunk of it) plus the money he raised and is still out of a job for two years while the case moves through the system then he risks putting his family in financial trouble. On the other hand (still allowing that he was falsely accused), he simply accepts a (meaningless) ban and walks away from the sport to find new work thereby keeping his savings and financial security but losing the opportunity to make top level pro-cyclist type money.

Accused athletes, especially top cyclists must weigh the two options and make their decision base on the costs, benefits, and risks. In every one of these cases, the risks are high, the costs are either high or enormous, and the end benefits are pretty small. Lawyers are expensive, nobody has been aquited yet, and his reputation is forever tarnished. The only benefit is keeping the tarnished title- fans will still think him a doper that got off on a "technicality." On the other hand, simply stating "I'm not guilty but this isn't worth fighting" is the rational choice given the way the WADA system works.

Legal fees. Lawyers are expensive. He can't race without a team. Do you really think any team will touch him with this hanging over him?I understand that lawyers are expensive, being one myself. My question is, what work is required from his lawyers during the period while they await a decision? I am not aware that any is required, so I don't see why his legal fees would be increasing during this period. You suggested that the powers that be are delaying to increase his legal fees in order to discourage other riders from challenging suspensions. The powers that be may very well want to discourage this, and delay in and of itself may accomplish this, but I don't think it does so by increasing legal fees.

Also, I understand the practical issues with needing a team to race. My question is, can UCI prevent him from racing if two years have elapsed since he last raced, assuming he had a team to race for? Anyone know?

I understand that lawyers are expensive, being one myself. My question is, what work is required from his lawyers during the period while they await a decision? I am not aware that any is required, so I don't see why his legal fees would be increasing during this period. You suggested that the powers that be are delaying to increase his legal fees in order to discourage other riders from challenging suspensions. The powers that be may very well want to discourage this, and delay in and of itself may accomplish this, but I don't think it does so by increasing legal fees.

Also, I understand the practical issues with needing a team to race. My question is, can UCI prevent him from racing if two years have elapsed since he last raced, assuming he had a team to race for? Anyone know?Lawyers can always find excuses to spend their clients' money. :rolleyes: The UCI's ability to ban Landis beyond two years is irrelevant. NO team is gonna touch him with this hanging over his head. Hell, Rabobank canned Rasmussen, in the yellow jersey, just for not being where he said he'd be.

As long as there's no decision clearing Landis, for all practical purposes, he's as hosed as if he'd been found guilty. The Dope Police, be they WADA, USADA, UCI, or any of the rest of the alphabet soup, have no incentive to move on this case unless they're getting a conviction. :mad:

Which brings me back to my original point. If they were gonna convict him, they'd have already done it.

Lawyers can always find excuses to spend their clients' money. :rolleyes: The UCI's ability to ban Landis beyond two years is irrelevant. NO team is gonna touch him with this hanging over his head. Hell, Rabobank canned Rasmussen, in the yellow jersey, just for not being where he said he'd be.

As long as there's no decision clearing Landis, for all practical purposes, he's as hosed as if he'd been found guilty. The Dope Police, be they WADA, USADA, UCI, or any of the rest of the alphabet soup, have no incentive to move on this case unless they're getting a conviction. :mad:

Which brings me back to my original point. If they were gonna convict him, they'd have already done it.

The thing with Rasmussen smelled like a dead rat. There was some speculation in another thread that perhaps Rabobank knew something that everyone else didn't. Perhaps they did some internal testing and knew that his numbers were off. Then they can him before that happens so the rest of the team doesn't get caught up in as much of a mess as they would if Rasmussen stayed. I mean come on, they knew he had problems with missing tests long before the TdF started.

The thing with Rasmussen smelled like a dead rat. There was some speculation in another thread that perhaps Rabobank knew something that everyone else didn't. Perhaps they did some internal testing and knew that his numbers were off. Then they can him before that happens so the rest of the team doesn't get caught up in as much of a mess as they would if Rasmussen stayed. I mean come on, they knew he had problems with missing tests long before the TdF started.

I honestly think the other riders on Rabobank were extremly pissed at Rasmussen for the situation, did you notice how Denny Menchov,just quit the next stage.

I honestly think the other riders on Rabobank were extremly pissed at Rasmussen for the situation, did you notice how Denny Menchov,just quit the next stage.

I'm sure they were bad at him, but why wouldn't Rabobank have suspended Rasmussen before the TdF started? They knew he had issues with missing the tests but they sent him to The Tour anyway...

But this is unacceptable. Unless, of course everyone decides it's all fine and dandy. In which case you get what you get. Which in this case is nothing. Absolutely nothing at all.

What a country. Oh wait, that's France. Never mind. And now it may be less suprising that they needed huge bailouts in two successive global wars. But I hear the trains run on time. That's something.


That would only be relevant if he won the Giro.

I remember the first time you posted those. I laughed so hard I nearly choked.


There are others... My brother is a teacher and sent them to me with the email title, "Welcome to my world..."

I think he teaches future WADA and USADA inspectors.

Seriously.

OMG that was too funny! Good lord the guy has a future in Vegas, send him there, quick.
Thanks for shearing.