Road Cycling - My new wheels don't spin that long...

Hi, i'm bored at work, and i just noticed yesterday that when i turn my half finished bike upside down and spin the front wheel, it doesn't spin very long before slowing down and stopping. These are brand new campy scirocco wheels. How can i adjust the wheel to make them spin with less friction?

Adjust the hub bearing cones. Factory settings aren't always correct.

don't adjust anything. They're brand new and need to be run in. They will loosen up of their own accord in a few hundred miles. Once they'v loosened up, it's a good idea to inject some fresh grease into them if they have a grease port or get them serviced.
New free spinning hubs usually havenot be greased properly. Never judge quality of hubs this way.

PS: of course this does not apply to cheap crappy hubs.
High quality hubs have been factory adjusted to ensure correct bearing contact and wear pattern for the break in period.
Also the grease is still firm and has not been worked. Onceit warms upa nd the oil starts lubricating the bearing they run smoother.

So when i get my new mavic K elites,get them services after a few hundred miles?

That's good advice though. It's like the "break-in" period for a car ... you want to always change the oil at the end, or even more often during that period. It makes sense.

Phat-All ball and cone type(like yours)hubs fresh out of the box should be adjusted correctly by you or a mechanic b4 riding them. If you do not adjust them correctly, the hub life will be shortened. Barnett's Manual, chapter 12, starting at page 12, walks you throught the procedure of correct hub adjustment.

To summarize what is said there, a new hub in the box is adjusted so there is no play in the cones/bearings. However, when installed in the bicycle, the quick release lever applies a lateral load on the bearings causing them to be to tight if they have been left as in the box. The bearings need to be adjusted so that when they are loaded(with the quick release lever engaged), they will be correctly adjusted. This means that when they are not loaded(with the quick release lever loose), they will feel loose if correctly adjusted.

Once again, Barnett's, chapter 12, page 12 on will walk you through this procedure. If you have any problem with this PM me and we can walk through this together.

Originally posted by Chi
That's good advice though. It's like the "break-in" period for a car ... you want to always change the oil at the end, or even more often during that period. It makes sense.
Not on new cars anymore.You drive slow for 1000 miles and thats it.No oil changes or anything.

How do you know how much tension you need on the cones with the skewers on? Kinda impossible to set the cones that precise since you have to put the wheel back on the bike to get the tension right. And I thought the jam nut kept the skewer from compressing the cones? I thought that's why you tighten the cones against the jam nut to achieve the best no-friction/no-play feel?

Originally posted by shokhead
Not on new cars anymore.You drive slow for 1000 miles and thats it.No oil changes or anything.

I hope you didn't do that to your new car ... what I said about oil changes is an undocumented practice. You will not see the change-new-oil suggestion very often anymore. It's just not economically wise for car companies; they profit more from selling you new cars than selling you new oil filters.

Actually, it is not that difficult at all. Your skewers should be set so they engage, so you start to feel resistance, when they are at the 90deg mark in it's 180 deg throw. If you do this consistently, you can then adjust the bearings from loose to tight a little at a time till they are correct with the skewer tightened down from this setting. Yes, you have to put the wheel in the frame and test it with each re-adjustment closer to the optimal, but that is part of the process.

The jamnut(locknut) is really there primarily to prevent loosening-it does very little side loading.

If you have all the fancy tools shown in the Barnett's manual, you can do all the final adjustments on the bench and you don't have to remove, readjust, reinstall, check, repeat.

Plus, feeling for play at the rim with the wheel installed is a much more sensitive measure of bearing play than feeling for it at the hub/axle.

Originally posted by Chi
How do you know how much tension you need on the cones with the skewers on? Kinda impossible to set the cones that precise since you have to put the wheel back on the bike to get the tension right.
It's not as hard as you might think... check here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33500&perpage=25&pagenumber=2) to see a fixture I made to do this adjustment. Works very well and the adjustment is dead-on.

I wish I could do all that fancy stuff with links. I can't find any instructions on that anywhere here. I just bought this computer, first one, 2 months ago and I still can't even get the links to other threads to work for me when I type them in character for character.

I still can't imagine how you can feel the friction on the bearings through the wheel rim. But I guess I should try it first and see. The fixture is really cool. What size drill bit did you use to drill the hole through the fixture? I'm gonna need to find a piece of scrap metal for this job though ... maybe a piece of .060" sheet aluminum will do ...

Originally posted by Chi
I hope you didn't do that to your new car ... what I said about oil changes is an undocumented practice. You will not see the change-new-oil suggestion very often anymore. It's just not economically wise for car companies; they profit more from selling you new cars than selling you new oil filters.
Sure did.First 1000 i didnt go on freeway for more then a few miles.After 1000 i drove it normal and didnt change my oil until 2500 and then every 5000 after that.

Go to the local hardware store (LHS? :D ) and look for a large angle bracket like this:

http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/57/5790_l.jpg

Find the biggest one you can and the metal should be thick enough that the axle won't come all the way through and bottom out on the skewer -- if in doubt put a couple of washers on the skewer. If needed drill the holes out to 3/8" (or whatever your axles require) and you should be good to go. I got the idea from Barnett 12:12 so go check that out for detailed instructions on how to do the adjustment.

schweeet!! :D

Originally posted by Chi
[B]I still can't imagine how you can feel the friction on the bearings through the wheel rim. /B]

You're not looking for friction. You're looking for -play- in the bearings. You should start with the bearings set somewhat loose, you'll feel the play in the bearings at the rim, then readjust the cones a litte tighter, reclamp, check for play, repeat as often as required until the bearings are just smooth, no play.

Although I do subscribe to the recommendation's in Barnett's Chapter12 (i have a copy), If ind it does not apply to wheel sets only to hubs that have not been built into wheels.
Wheelsets come preadjusted from the factory. This is according to the Mavic people (when I purchased my ksyrium's).

The reason unbuilt hubs are tight i to prevent play during transportm, but once tehy are built into wheels the cones do have to be readjusted because the tension in the spokes opens up the bearing race slightly making the bearings mre loose. Yor LBS should then just tighten them up.

With the Scirroco's they don't need adjustment until after they have been broken in.
I have purchased two wheelsets with Campagnolo Daytona hubs and with each wheel set I received the same advice: " they're a bit tight now but once the spokes have settled down they will either loosen or tighten a bit more so bring them back after about 200miles of riding or 1 month.
Deeside has been pretty consistent in this advise and it was the same with the Ksyrium's wheelset and they have angular contact cartridge bearings.

I still suggest you leave the cones alone till you've ridden the bike. If you adjust the cones now and the spokes settle you could do more damage with loose cones than with tight ones. The balls inthose hubs are small and there are many of them which gives a large contact area so You won't damage the hub in this short break in period.

Like I said, the recoomendation in Barnett only applies to hubs that have NOT been built in to wheels

Thanks timb. I'll leave them alone for 3 weeks at least.

Most all manufacturers assume the final adjustment will be performed by the retailer. It is best to adjust hubs before use. See Hub Service (http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_hub.shtml)

Feel in important, and you can get a good sense of this by using washers or spacers to simulate the dropouts. Stack up spacers thicker than the axle protuding past the locknut face. Close the skewer tight, and now turn the axle with your fingers. Notice the difference between no-skewer and a tightly closed skewer.

I thought that the ksyriums were cartridge bearings. Isn't there a whole different process for adjusting cartidge bearings when they get gritty? (like throwing them out?)

The Ksyriums are replacable Angular contact bearings thats why they're adjustable. They're not the normal type of cartridge bearing which is usually just a simple sealed plain bearing. Chris King also uses replacable angular contact bearings in his hubs.

Originally posted by TimB
The Ksyriums are replacable Angular contact bearings thats why they're adjustable. They're not the normal type of cartridge bearing which is usually just a simple sealed plain bearing. Chris King also uses replacable angular contact bearings in his hubs.
So is that good or bad?

the fact that they are angulr contact is good. They're basically replacable cup and cone bearings

genius!