Scenic Schuylkill Century

[The Historian]

http://www.phillybikeclub.org/century.htm

Anyone going to this? I was going to volunteer, but it's more likely I'll ride instead. I'm debating between the 65 and 100 mile routes. Don't believe the 1300 feet of climbing mentioned in the century description - Bikely suggests 3200 at least.

[guybierhaus]

Same day as Amish Country Tour from Dover, DE.

http://www.visitdover.com/linksPages/eventbiketour.html

0 feet of climbing and pie.

[grahny]

I was thinking of doing the century route, but most of it is roads I ride anyway, so I figure, why pay for it :) however I may reconsider and ride the metric route just for the hell of it.

I'll be riding around town the next day though for Bike Philly.

[MTBLover]

I'll be on it- haven't decided between the metric and imperial. Neil, are the routes posted on bikely, and if so, what's tag (or linky if you have it)? Thx!

[grahny]

I have no will power... I just signed up for the metric :) I figure it'll give me a decent course to ride again in the future.

[The Historian]

I'll be on it- haven't decided between the metric and imperial. Neil, are the routes posted on bikely, and if so, what's tag (or linky if you have it)? Thx!

Here's a link to the 2002 route:

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/68099

[MTBLover]

Thanks- yep, there's a bit of climbin' on that!

[freemti]

Hmmm, I may have to do this one, and all 100 miles this time!

[The Historian]

Hmmm, I may have to do this one, and all 100 miles this time!

Think of it as training for PBP in 2011!

[freemti]

BMB in 2008!

[The Historian]

I have no will power... I just signed up for the metric :) I figure it'll give me a decent course to ride again in the future.

OK, look for me, please:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/tourmaletguy/MyPhillyrideandstuff064.jpg

[grahny]

Sorry, totally forgot you were going to be out there. I started right up near the front and just blasted through the metric. I though it was kind of disappointing coming back down through the schuylkill trail... I was hoping for something better than that at the end. That frustrated me and I ended up jumping off it and riding some other roads and just went home... 70 miles in total... 3.5hrs. My Garmin says around 2,800ft of climbing. Good ride, but now I'm wishing I did the full century. I've still got plenty of energy left.

[MTBLover]

Did the 68, but since we got lost in Valley Forge (again!- so people are just untrainable!), and adding few other tidbits to the ride, it was 75mi after all was said and done.

Neil- nice meeting you, if only briefly- I hope your ride went well! Ride report?

[The Historian]

Sorry, totally forgot you were going to be out there. I started right up near the front and just blasted through the metric. I though it was kind of disappointing coming back down through the schuylkill trail... I was hoping for something better than that at the end. That frustrated me and I ended up jumping off it and riding some other roads and just went home... 70 miles in total... 3.5hrs. My Garmin says around 2,800ft of climbing. Good ride, but now I'm wishing I did the full century. I've still got plenty of energy left.

If you were maintaining an average of 20 MPH on the route, the only words you would have time to speak to me would be "On your left!"

[The Historian]

Did the 68, but since we got lost in Valley Forge (again!- so people are just untrainable!), and adding few other tidbits to the ride, it was 75mi after all was said and done.

Neil- nice meeting you, if only briefly- I hope your ride went well! Ride report?

I'll be posting a full report to my blog and the BCP email list, but my general impressions is that the metric was a well-marked, interesting course. The food stops were well-stocked and SAG support was good.

Personally, I didn't do too well. My ambition and determination keep bumping into the fact that I am a novice rider with scoliosis and seriously knocked knees. I bailed on the 106 mile route by the Evansburg rest stop. My back pain was so severe by the time I reached Betzwood I had to spend a few minutes lying on the ground. I had to stop every few miles on the SRT, so that Betzwood to the finish was 2.5 hours. It took me nine hours to slog through the metric. I may need to rethink my crazy desire to ride 100 miles.

I enjoyed our too-brief meeting. Perhaps we can ride together sometime - for a short distance. :-)

I came to the ride with "Freemti", who did complete the 106 mile course. 9.5 hours for him.

[grahny]

I'll be posting a full report to my blog and the BCP email list, but my general impressions is that the metric was a well-marked, interesting course. The food stops were well-stocked and SAG support was good.

Personally, I didn't do too well. My ambition and determination keep bumping into the fact that I am a novice rider with scoliosis and seriously knocked knees. I bailed on the 106 mile route by the Evansburg rest stop. My back pain was so severe by the time I reached Betzwood I had to spend a few minutes lying on the ground. I had to stop every few miles on the SRT, so that Betzwood to the finish was 2.5 hours. It took me nine hours to slog through the metric. I may need to rethink my crazy desire to ride 100 miles.

I enjoyed our too-brief meeting. Perhaps we can ride together sometime - for a short distance. :-)

I came to the ride with "Freemti", who did complete the 106 mile course. 9.5 hours for him.

Neil, I also have scoliosis... 12 degree C curve in my lower spine. My left femur is shorter than my right to boot (1/2"), causing other knee, back and hip issues. Have you tried using wedges in your shoes? It may help alieviate some (probably not all) of the pain you experience. They've helped tremendously in evening out my pedal stroke and pains I used to have are drastically reduced. I use lemond lewedges:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/PE406Z06-Lemond+Lewedge.aspx

Keep it up though, in time you'll hit that 100 miles.

[The Historian]

Neil, I also have scoliosis... 12 degree C curve in my lower spine. My left femur is shorter than my right to boot, causing other knee, back and hip issues. Have you tried using wedges in your shoes? It may help alieviate some (probably not all) of the pain you experience. They've helped tremendously in evening out my pedal stroke and pains I used to have are drastically reduced. I used lemond lewedges:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/PE406Z06-Lemond+Lewedge.aspx

Keep it up though, in time you'll hit that 100 miles.

I'm about a 6% curve, which is enough to cause back discomfort and give me a raised right shoulder. I also have a shorter left femur - a centimeter. In addition, both knees are knocked, the right one severely, and the left leg doesn't have a full extension. As a riding buddy puts it, "if you were a horse you would have been shot long ago."

I've just had pedal extenders added to the road bike. This seems to have eliminated the knee pain I was suffering, and my pedaling looks a lot more 'normal' now - although I still do have two different pedal strokes. I'm using flat pedals currently because I was having trouble with the lack of float on my spd's. I'll get the wedges when I get the clipless put back on. I'm also getting the pedal extenders for the commuter bike.

The back pain was partly due to my using a 2 liter hydration backpack. It was my first time with it, and it probably wasn't the best choice of hydration for me. I began to have back problems about 30 miles into the ride. I still don't know how much of the back pain was the hydration pack, the scoliosis, or my inexperience - this was my third metric ever, and only my fifth ride of more than 50 miles.

Thanks for the encouragement. With your example before me, I know I can stay 'ahead of the curve' when riding.

[MTBLover]

Sorry, totally forgot you were going to be out there. I started right up near the front and just blasted through the metric. I though it was kind of disappointing coming back down through the schuylkill trail... I was hoping for something better than that at the end. That frustrated me and I ended up jumping off it and riding some other roads and just went home... 70 miles in total... 3.5hrs. My Garmin says around 2,800ft of climbing. Good ride, but now I'm wishing I did the full century. I've still got plenty of energy left.

It just struck me at, of all times, 5 this morning as I was getting ready for the Bike Philly ride (a huge success, BTW)- did you take the SRT all the way back from Betzwood? We took the more scenic (and hilly!!!) return through VF and King of Prussia, figuring that it would be cooler (the SRT is so unforgiving in the heat). Hah! we were quite wrong- that long hill up Old Eagle School Road was murderously hot, but after that it really was pretty shady. Lots of good hills, though, and considering they were all after 50mi, we weren't too embarrassed at taking them at 8mph :).

I still didn't see the Studebaker dealership, though- did you guys? I was really looking forward to that, being an old guy who remembers Studeys. The view from Potshop was awesome though- I really regret not having the camera with me.

[MTBLover]

I'll be posting a full report to my blog and the BCP email list, but my general impressions is that the metric was a well-marked, interesting course. The food stops were well-stocked and SAG support was good.

Personally, I didn't do too well. My ambition and determination keep bumping into the fact that I am a novice rider with scoliosis and seriously knocked knees. I bailed on the 106 mile route by the Evansburg rest stop. My back pain was so severe by the time I reached Betzwood I had to spend a few minutes lying on the ground. I had to stop every few miles on the SRT, so that Betzwood to the finish was 2.5 hours. It took me nine hours to slog through the metric. I may need to rethink my crazy desire to ride 100 miles.

I enjoyed our too-brief meeting. Perhaps we can ride together sometime - for a short distance. :-)

I came to the ride with "Freemti", who did complete the 106 mile course. 9.5 hours for him.


I thought the ride was well-marked and supported too, although I really wish that the good people at VF Park could loosen the restrictions on signage- we got lost in there (again!!!) and ended up adding some miles and extra hills, and it was hot!

Sorry to hear about your back pain- it sounds like grahny has good, first-person suggestions though, and I agree, you'll make the 100. BTW, the hydration pack could have been part of the problem, especially if you're not used to wearing one. Between two cages on the down and seat tubes, and maybe two holders on the back of your seat, I wonder if you'd be better off, especially on a well-supported ride like this one.

A ride would be great- do you do any of the BCP rides?

[freemti]

freemti's reflection on the Scenic Schuykill Century:

Lessons learned:

1) What works for commuting may not be so good on a distance event. I recently put back the original 11-26 rear cog (replacing the 11-32 I had my LBS put on) on my Trek 7.6 FX figuring that after ~6 months of riding I was "ready". Ready for a mildly hilly 7 mile r/t commute? Yes. Ready for 106 miles, a third of which was decently hilly? No. I was able to ride all the hills, but I had to mash my way up a lot of them and could of used a little more help.

2) Carbonated "energy" beverages? Also not a good idea. I stopped at my local store to buy something to drink other than Gatorade (I really don't like the stuff) since I had run out of my preferred drink of Heed. I brought what I thought was un-carbonated stuff only to realize too late it was not. This led to the discovery I make in lesson #3

3) There are no public toilets on the Schuylkill Trail.

4) The best lesson I learned is that you do need to prepare for a century. I had not done one since my epic back to back centuries during the Pennsylvania Dutch MS 150 ride back in July. Due to a combination injury and work, I had not done any decent distance training since then, and boy could I tell! I will need to train up a bunch more to prepare for my first brevet in October.

Final stats:

100.5 miles in 8 hours of rolling time. Average 12.7 mph, max 37 mph. Total miles this year 1,540 (broke 1.5K!) This includes riding the Schuylkill Trail for the last section instead of the official routes and accounts for the 106 -vs- 100 mile difference

Reflections on the event:

Overall a well organized event considering the number of folks who showed up. However there were some route marking issues on the 106 miles route that caused many riders to get lost, not sure who was at fault the riders, the que sheets or the signage, but owing to the number of riders that got lost, I think there was a systemic issue with the signage. Rest stops were great. The route was interesting, being a Chester county resident myself, I've not cycled much in Montgomery county much, it was nicer than I used to give it credit for, although Chester county still wins for scenic vistas IMHO. It was flatter than Chester, but not as flat as I had imagined.

[The Historian]

3) There are no public toilets on the Schuylkill Trail.



Betzwood has a gents.

[MTBLover]

[B][SIZE="3"] there were some route marking issues on the 106 miles route that caused many riders to get lost, not sure who was at fault the riders, the que sheets or the signage, but owing to the number of riders that got lost, I think there was a systemic issue with the signage.

Good report, freemti! Yeah, I thought there were a couple of places on the 68mi cue sheet that were a bit fuzzy (or just plain wrong). I found that the road markings were a real help, except in VF, and on the Audubon Loop. I think overall they did an admirable job of laying out the courses for us, though.

Speaking of the Audubon Loop, I'd probably note on next year's cue sheet that the hill going up to the Mill Grove furnace requires considerable caution for first-timers. It's probably best for some people to unclip and walk up the hill than try to ride it and risk a fall. IMO, that's got to be more than the 9.8% grade that's stated on the sign!

[The Historian]

Good report, freemti! Yeah, I thought there were a couple of places on the 68mi cue sheet that were a bit fuzzy (or just plain wrong). I found that the road markings were a real help, except in VF, and on the Audubon Loop. I think overall they did an admirable job of laying out the courses for us, though.

Speaking of the Audubon Loop, I'd probably note on next year's cue sheet that the hill going up to the Mill Grove furnace requires considerable caution for first-timers. It's probably best for some people to unclip and walk up the hill than try to ride it and risk a fall. IMO, that's got to be more than the 9.8% grade that's stated on the sign!

I suspect next year they will route over the bridge at the end on Lower Perkiomen Valley Park instead of the Audubon Loop. That hill is brutal.

[rizz]

If you are on a sponsored century, then there really should be no reason for a hydration pack or more than two bottles.

As for marking, the best road event I've attended had marks on both sides of every turn. Leading up had two marks with their only event-specific symbol and arrow so you didn't confuse it with regular road markup, then they had their symbol and an ``X'' (instead of an arrow) on the opposite side of turns if you were going the wrong way. Shame more folks don't do that.

IMO, your $30 (or whatever) entry fee should be enough for a route that should never require riders to look at cue sheets.

I may need to rethink my crazy desire to ride 100 miles.

Bah. Goals are what keep us motivated. If you give up on that goal, what's left to be done? You've already accomplished a lot, may as well knock out that full century then set some new, more difficult goals for next year.

Keep on keeping on, brother!

[freemti]

And a Ladies too, at least I would think so!

But, my problem was with the lack of toilets on the remaining 29 miles till Philly, I was thinking how dead leaves would do as ersatz toilet paper at one point!

[grahny]

Speaking of the Audubon Loop, I'd probably note on next year's cue sheet that the hill going up to the Mill Grove furnace requires considerable caution for first-timers. It's probably best for some people to unclip and walk up the hill than try to ride it and risk a fall. IMO, that's got to be more than the 9.8% grade that's stated on the sign!

It is more than 9%... it's a 9% average, peaks around 12%. I hit that several times a week as that loop is part of my usual route. It's short, but painful :D

[MTBLover]

It is more than 9%... it's a 9% average, peaks around 12%. I hit that several times a week as that loop is part of my usual route. It's short, but painful :D

Oh yes indeed! The first time I did that hill was after a couple of slices of piza at the place on Egypt Road in Oaks- do yo know it? Sensational pizza, but definitely not good fuel for that hill :p

[MTBLover]

I suspect next year they will route over the bridge at the end on Lower Perkiomen Valley Park instead of the Audubon Loop. That hill is brutal.

I'm sure they will- that part of the ride was not well marked, and for people unfamiliar with the area, it led to some confusion. We met up with a guy coming up from the Perky bridge- he said it was open, although we didn't try it.

[hochflynn]

Being the co-chair of this year's event, I just looked at all the comments, both good and bad. A couple of tidbits on what I saw.

Yes, there will not be a detour on the Perkiomen/Schuylkill River Trail as the bridge work is complete.

I too wish we could do better in Valley Forge Park. We were about to get approval to actually take one of the loops within the park for the benefit of those not from the area (to see the encampments, etc.). We essentially had a verbal approval, but didn't submit once we heard the same no signs, no marking rules. It would have been more confusing than our current route, so we didn't want to chance people getting lost more than usual. lol.

For those taking the SRT back to Philly, 9 1/2 miles from Betzwood (which has bathrooms) is Spring Mill Station. There are two porta-johns just to the left of the trail, very visable.

Regarding the area in Chester county where we had issues in the past (part of only the century route), we got a message from the Chief of Police of West Vincent that if we mark the roads we will be issued a citation. I think residents may have blacked our marking out in the past and for whatever reason have complained to the township.

We will put up signs that day, and hope they are still there when riders come by. We will also hand out a mini cue sheet of that area at the rest stop that is just prior to heading to W. Vincent. There are only about 7 turns or directional indications, so hopefully people can simply follow the cue and not expect to follow road markings.

Incidentally, the rest stop in that area has been the Ridge Fire Station in the past. They are hosting an event this year (how dare they), but we've secured a church .4 miles down the road that has great faciliites. It also gives you a chance to pray for strength. In re-routing the ride to get there, we cut out a few miles so our 100 mile ride that has been about 107 miles, is now about 102 miles. At that distance, most of us appreciate a few miles less in our centuries.

Please keep the discussion and comments flowing. I'll check in and update everyone or answer questions as needed. Have a great ride, y'all.

[aqua4her]

I'm coming. How challenging are the climbs? Compared to Lancaster Covered bridges?

[hochflynn]

I'm coming. How challenging are the climbs? Compared to Lancaster Covered bridges?

I also did the Lancaster ride, after not having done it for a few years. Forgot some of the hills and that they don't seem to end. At least ours end, since the last 15 miles or so aren't too bad (65 and 100 mile routes), plus you could also take the trail back for a portion and do 12 flat miles if you aren't up to more hills by the last rest stop. I'll leave it to someone else to compare, since I've only ridden our century once a few years back and while I remember hills, I couldn't give an honest comparison.

[zoste]

I'm coming. How challenging are the climbs? Compared to Lancaster Covered bridges?

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this question, too. I rode Lancaster this year and I'm signed up for the Scenic Schuylkill, too.

[grahny]

The SSC route is similar... just rollers with a few kickers, but nothing major (there's that kicker on the audobon loop, but it's super short). It's all relative though to skill level and preparation...To me, Lancaster had a few small hills that were really nothing, and the rest were rollers. There were no climbs or anything like that. At the Livestrong Challenge last sunday I did the century route which has tons of steep hills and several climbs (total of ~8,000ft of elevation over 97 miles, in comparison Lancaster had ~2,600ft over 63mi). When I got back around towards the end where the 40 mile route riders were, a lot of them were walking up inclines that I was cruising up at 17mph after riding 70+ miles. To them they were hills, to me they were just slowing me down... and to others stronger than me they probably didn't even notice the change in grade :)

So I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about the hills unless you're riding a mountain pass ;) - there's only one way to find out how hard a hill is, and that's to ride up it. Your body is capable of more than your mind thinks it is (most of the time :D). As soon as you think you can't do something, you're already beat.

[hochflynn]

The SSC route is similar... just rollers with a few kickers, but nothing major (there's that kicker on the audobon loop, but it's super short). It's all relative though to skill level and preparation...To me, Lancaster had a few small hills that were really nothing, and the rest were rollers. There were no climbs or anything like that. At the Livestrong Challenge last sunday I did the century route which has tons of steep hills and several climbs (total of ~8,000ft of elevation over 97 miles, in comparison Lancaster had ~2,600ft over 63mi). When I got back around towards the end where the 40 mile route riders were, a lot of them were walking up inclines that I was cruising up at 17mph after riding 70+ miles. To them they were hills, to me they were just slowing me down... and to others stronger than me they probably didn't even notice the change in grade :)

So I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about the hills unless you're riding a mountain pass ;) - there's only one way to find out how hard a hill is, and that's to ride up it. Your body is capable of more than your mind thinks it is (most of the time :D). As soon as you think you can't do something, you're already beat.

FYI: The Audobon loop is no longer part of the route. It was a detour while a bridge was under construction.

[The Historian]

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this question, too. I rode Lancaster this year and I'm signed up for the Scenic Schuylkill, too.

Me too. I'm also in for Bike Philly that Sunday. Now to find a place to stay Saturday night.

[aqua4her]

Thanks for the info! We have lots of rollers here and a couple of "gaps".

[zoste]

The SSC route is similar... just rollers with a few kickers, but nothing major (there's that kicker on the audobon loop, but it's super short). It's all relative though to skill level and preparation...To me, Lancaster had a few small hills that were really nothing, and the rest were rollers. There were no climbs or anything like that. At the Livestrong Challenge last sunday I did the century route which has tons of steep hills and several climbs (total of ~8,000ft of elevation over 97 miles, in comparison Lancaster had ~2,600ft over 63mi). When I got back around towards the end where the 40 mile route riders were, a lot of them were walking up inclines that I was cruising up at 17mph after riding 70+ miles. To them they were hills, to me they were just slowing me down... and to others stronger than me they probably didn't even notice the change in grade :)

So I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about the hills unless you're riding a mountain pass ;) - there's only one way to find out how hard a hill is, and that's to ride up it. Your body is capable of more than your mind thinks it is (most of the time :D). As soon as you think you can't do something, you're already beat.

Thanks for the info! I've ridden from Spring Mill to Green Lane Park and back on the SRT and Perkiomen so I thought I was ready for a century. Some of the hills at the Covered Bridge Metric left me gasping, but I didn't have to get off and walk any of them. If SSC is similar, I'll be fine.

BTW, I did have to walk that hill in Audobon, but since it's not part of this trip it won't be a problem :)
Oh yeh...I have to walk that gravel hill near Spring Mountain on the Perk, too.

[RoadToNowhere]

Grahny, are you doing this one this year?

B

[RoadToNowhere]

<snip>So I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about the hills unless you're riding a mountain pass ;) - there's only one way to find out how hard a hill is, and that's to ride up it. Your body is capable of more than your mind thinks it is (most of the time :D). As soon as you think you can't do something, you're already beat.

Nice, Grahny! I knew I liked you ...

Beth

[guybierhaus]

For what it's worth, here is the link for the event:

http://www.phillybikeclub.org/century/cen2008/SSC_homepage_08.htm

[SPlKE]

FYI: The Audobon loop is no longer part of the route. It was a detour while a bridge was under construction.

Bummer. What's a ride without a 9% grade or two? :rolleyes:


I've been thinking about doing this for years. Maybe this year. I could go for the metric.

[grahny]

Nice, Grahny! I knew I liked you ...

Beth

:p

Still up in the air at this point... if I do, I'll just do the metric (or 70 or whatever it was). I have a pig roast to attend that day :D