Commuting - Which clipless system: SPD, Crank Bros, SpeedPlay?

I've been a Look-compatible clipless user for 15 years now, and my original Diadora shoes are almost beat. I'm tired of walking like a duck with those huge cleats, so I'm ready to move on.

I do about 75% commuting to work, 20% trail, and about 5% short errands.

Which system is best for me? Priorities: 1) most free play, 2) lowest-profile cleats, 3) ease of getting in/out, 4) mud/debris rejection.

Are the Speedplays as good as Speedplay says they are?

Thanks,
Chris

SPD vs crank brothers

- same profile cleats
- CB should have the edge in float
- CB should be easier to get in an out (although this is somewhat pedal-dependent). My experience is that mid to high-end SPD pedals are much nicer than the cheaper stuff. With CB, the function is the same throughout the levels, and you're just paying more for material or weight.

- CB has the edge in dirt

I'm a former SPD user who strongly prefers CB. I've never tried Speedplay to compare them.

Ultegra 6620 pedals. These are SPD and the new wider stainless steel platform. I personally think they are the best, ultra smooth and exceptional quality. I have SPD 540's shimano's on my other bike and they are just OK. I have used Time, Look and straps.
Never used crank bros, although a friend of mine swears by them.

I love the Crankbrother pedals. Have them on all 3 bikes.

However if you need float and alot of it, the Speedplay Frogs are probably your best bet.

I like speedplay
Frogs
Mounted to a Specialized MTN bike shoe
the cleats are nearly level with the sole of the shoe (the 'vibram' like nobs)
Easy to walk in, easy to get in and out of clips, free play

I rarely commute with clipless (I did but got tired of the xtra weight of 2nd shoes -- unless I left them at work)
I'm test riding Powergrips (http://www.calhouncycle.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=498) now (speaking of NO clips)
they are kinda cool... take some tweaking, but it is nice not have flexiblility with shoes -- considering some dont' work with toe-clips

Eggbeaters all the way. Very low profile cleat, easy to get into and out of, and no complex mechanism to jam with mud.

Get at least the stainless steal ones though. The bushing on the chrome steel ones suck (tolerances are too loose) and will eventually develop play.

The only advantage of Frogs are the float. I am not fond of the idea of elastomer polymers in the cleat, though I have no experience with them in practice. I've heard that they don't shed mud as well as you'd think either, but this is hearsay coming from me.

I used speedplay frogs for several years (like one of the other posters). I liked them: easy to clip in and out, very free play, sturdy. However I rode with mb shoes (i.e. not a totally rigid sole), and eventually I got a hot spot on the sole of my feet right where I pushed on the pedal. The speedplays were just too small. I use platform pedals now. The hot spot went away after a month or so. If you use rigid shoes, speedplays should be the thing.
mriley

I love the Crankbrother pedals. Have them on all 3 bikes.

However if you need float and alot of it, the Speedplay Frogs are probably your best bet.

Same here - all three bikes, Crank Bros Candy-C. Swear by 'em.

I use SPD's, though I will probably switch back to regular pedals soon.

I use SPD's, though I will probably switch back to regular pedals soon.

May I ask why? I've been using toe clips and was thinking of going clipless, now I'm not so sure.

Time ATAK are really good too. I have those on my fixed gear, my commuter and my MTB

May I ask why? I've been using toe clips and was thinking of going clipless, now I'm not so sure.

They are expensive for year-round commuting IMO. I have shoes that I can use all year such as boots, but clipless mean I have to purchase additional footware (which is wasteful financially and resourcefully). In addition, it is an extra mechanical component on my bike which can break (although I have never heard of such). Lastly, and most importantly, I do not see the great benefit of them. I can certainly feel the benefits, but it is minimal. The benefits are overrated imo. I got along fine without them previously and now it just seems like more crap that I don't feel like burdening myself with.

I've been using SPD since the early 90's. They're good in snow, mud, rain, etc. One of the benefits for me is that I can switch shoes depending on the weather without switching pedals. I've got summer shoes for summer, winter shoes for the rest of the year, and since 3/4 bikes have the same pedal system, I can use any of them for commuting. Just throw a leg over and go...

However, they only have about 6 degrees of float, which may not work for the OP. I actually dislike float, but YMMV.

Time ATAK are really good too. I have those on my fixed gear, my commuter and my MTB

+1 I have been riding Times for years, I love them.

I've only started using clipless pedals recently, and decided to go straight to CB.

Had to add that one thing about Speedplays that kept me away was that multiple reviews complained about their vulnerability to dirt. Since they appear to have tiny moving parts in the shoe cleats, it wouldn't surprise me.

Frogs. Light, walk in gravel and mud all you want. 20 degrees of float. Trod on your wood floors at home without wrecking 'em. Nuff said.

I really like the Frogs. I've gone to them on both the commuter and my road bike. With Sidi MTB shoes I've never had any problems.

I have shoes that I can use all year such as boots, but clipless mean I have to purchase additional footware (which is wasteful financially and resourcefully).

Shoes are wear items though. Separating bike shoes from normal shoes just prolongs the life of both.

Same here - all three bikes, Crank Bros Candy-C. Swear by 'em.

Ditto - I only have 2 bikes tho - a roadie and a commuter - both have Candys (one SL, one C) and I wouldn't change a thing.

Still, every time I ride with a group, including this morning, I encounter people after a stoplight who can't pull away smoothly. They miss their clipins, looking down and wobbling, etc. I have no idea why roadies favor those one-sided, gotta tip the nose over with your toes first kind of pedals. Me and my candies are needlessly delayed by these weenies.

Shoes are wear items though. Separating bike shoes from normal shoes just prolongs the life of both.

I think there is a large difference. A set of shoes at an outlet is around $20-$50 for good quality. it is rare that I find bike shoes at a shop that fit that well. I buy at my lbs b/c I like to fit them first. Also, I don't have to carry extra shoes (I switch shoes a lot, even when I have sets at work). I see the attraction, but it's not worth the "hassle" to me.

Crank Brothers! Eggbeaters on my commuter and Quattros on my road bike. :beer:

Thanks everyone, your responses are really helpful! If it matters I'm just under 200 pounds and have been using stiff cycling shoes all this time with my Look-compatible Shimano pedals.

Aside from my left heel hitting the clamp for the kiddie trailer if I can't float-rotate my foot out a little, I don't know that I need float specifically since I don't have any knee problems; I just want to prevent injury as much as possible.

It sounds like Crank Bros might be the way to go. I'll see if I can try someone's out before buying.

One question about the CB Acid models... can they be used with ordinary, everyday shoes without the clipless mechanism digging into your shoe/foot?

Thanks again!
Chris


[I've consolidated my stable of bikes into one: Surly Karate Monkey 29er with two sets of wheels... one set of Salsa Delgados with fatties and one set of Ambrosio Elites with skinnies]

Have SPD on mtb - which is currently commuter as well. I have been been using them on trail (includes flat and rutty hilly mtb/recreational course with tons of switchbacks, etc) and commute - was going to put pedals back on for mtb/recreational course as I've even fallen on some of the more difficult designs as I just couldn't muscle my way up them, but I've been fine. Adjusting them for the perfect fit/release, etc is the key for comfortable and reliable clip in/out.

Throwing a winter bike on the road for commute and winter play - and that will most likely be pedals as I have some heavier hiking boots I wear for slushy winter fun.

Roadbike currently has Look on them, dislike them (too many other nicer things out there) and am planning on going to speedplays over the winter for that.

former spd user, converted to CB for extra float.
Standard Eggbeaters i found are actually kinda rough to use off-road. Trying to clip in under hard effort (ie starting up a hill) it's easy for your shoe to roll right off the pedal. Using candies or Smarties (i forgot which), small platform, don't roll around.
Cheers

It sounds like Crank Bros might be the way to go. I'll see if I can try someone's out before buying.

One question about the CB Acid models... can they be used with ordinary, everyday shoes without the clipless mechanism digging into your shoe/foot?

Definitely try them out if you can before making a decision. Sure, they work for me, but they're like any other piece of gear -- not everyone is going to like them.

For ordinary, everyday shoes, I'd really recommend the Mallets. I've been using Quattros for a couple/few months now, and compared to the Mallets that I originally bought (and are sitting idle on the MTB), they're not great when I'm not clipped in. The Acid pedals, although they definitely have a decently-sized platform (more so than my Quattros), just aren't going to grip your shoes as well as the Mallets will.

You can ride virtually worry-free in non-cleated shoes -- or while unclipped -- on Mallets. Anything smaller will be progressively more difficult as their platform diminishes.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I think I'm leaning towards the Crank Brothers Mallet C model. I'm committing to abandon the Look-compatibility, so I'm going to find myself some great-fitting shoes then se of there are shops who'll let me try a couple models of pedals (whose cleats are compatible with SPD shoes). Chris

Good choice. I'm a former SPD user. I wouldn't have any problem using them on the road, but I also mountain bike, and will NEVER ride SPD on trails again. They are way too dangerous because they have little ability, if any to clear mud. Though it may be difficult to get one's cleat stuck in an SPD pedal due to mud buildup, I have, and reinjured my knee as a result. In case anyone's wondering, my foot stuck during a planned stop on a fireroad. This has never hapened with Egg Beaters; even on the muddiest rides they clear and release with no problems. By the way, Egg Beaters are lighter than comparably-priced SPD pedals and require no maintenance. That being the case, I wonder why anyone would choose SPD over Egg Beaters.

Are the Speedplays as good as Speedplay says they are?



Yes! They are the easiest entry/exit imaginable, with no float resistance, tons of float, and great retention.

As others have said, they are NOT the best for mud/snow/debris clearing. However, they are a very simple mechanism. There is only one moving part in the pedal/cleat interface, and while it does use an elastomer, it only comes into play while clicking in; it is not part of the retention mechanism, or the exiting procedure.

Jack

Powergrips on all my bikes. Tons of float. No hassel adjusting cleats to releave knee pain. No cleats to deal with. Use with any shoe you have. They are very easy to get in and out of. Cheaper and just as effective as clipless systems. Lastly dirt and mud are not a concern.

Maybe its just because I've never tried clipless systems. But I just don't see a good enough reason to buy one except maybe to make me not look too Freddish on my weight weenie bike.

^^^
If powergrips suffice, then okay. But let me tell you, coming from toeclips (with touring shoes even) and going to clipless, there is a world of difference. Better power transfer, smoother spin, releases automatically in crash even while holding your shoe tight against the pedal; just some of the benefits.

If you have a weight weenie bike, you should try them. Even if it is just to say you did it.

I use Frogs on my commuter and like them. I have occassional pain in my left knee so wanted lots of float. Once or twice I tried a shortcut between 2 dead end roads 50 yards apart that required crossing a muddy area. I could not clip back in because of mud clogging the cleats. I had to use a stick or multitool to clean the cleats out. My only other clipless experience is with Look road cleats from the early 1990s, I like the Frogs + MTB shoes much better.

I use the Bontrager RE-1 on both my mt and road bike

^^^
If powergrips suffice, then okay. But let me tell you, coming from toeclips (with touring shoes even) and going to clipless, there is a world of difference. Better power transfer, smoother spin, releases automatically in crash even while holding your shoe tight against the pedal; just some of the benefits.

If you have a weight weenie bike, you should try them. Even if it is just to say you did it.

I've been meaning to get clipless actually, but not for commuting. There are too many stop and go's to deal with. If I do get one it will be for weekend rides only or tours. Speedplays have always been in my radar because I've heard great things about them.

I have speedplay frogs, nice system, light, easy to clip in, titaniums have weight limit, lots of float, no moving parts. One weakness - unclipping, they won't unclip if cleats and pedals aren't properly aligned. Can be dangerous if one needs to unclip very fast. Regular lubing helps.

I've been meaning to get clipless actually, but not for commuting. There are too many stop and go's to deal with.

With some systems, and certainly the Frogs that I use, clipping in/out is so easy that stop and goes aren't an issue at all. Once you become accustomed, it's a no-thought, no-effort, 100% reliable process, truly as simple as putting your foot on and off a platform pedal. As someone else posted, there can be an issue w/ unclipping using Frogs, specifically when your cranks are horizontal AND you're using a shoe w/ a wide toe-box. I've experienced this only with Shimano sandals (very wide) and only on a fixed gear where the crank position isn't so flexible. Wearing Sidi mtn shoes, it's never a problem, and using any shoe w/ a bike that freewheels, it's never a problem (for me, anyway).

Jack

I have riden all three platforms. Personally I would now chose speedplay hands down for road riding, and for more technical stuff- mountain I would choose Crank Brothers. I agree that CB has the edge as far as dirt and such but for float, Speedplay wins hands down. Over the last couple years I have jumped around to find shoes and pedals that work the best for me and I am going to stick with my Sidi-speedplay combo for road and CB-Pearl Izumi for mountain.

thats my take.

high end spuds. because the bearings last forever and I can bash rocks and ride underwater and they never need a thing done to them ever.

I have powergrips on my winter bike in the winter and have speedplay zero's on my raod bike and the rest of the time. The zero's really are the best, bar none.

Yes! They are the easiest entry/exit imaginable, with no float resistance, tons of float, and great retention.Which model(s) of Speedplays are you referring to? Are they all about the same? The Frogs appear to be an entirely different mechanism from the other models they have.

What about the cleat on Frogs/other Speedplay models? Do they protrude from the shoe more than Crank Bros. or SPD cleats?

Thanks,
Chris

Which model(s) of Speedplays are you referring to? Are they all about the same? The Frogs appear to be an entirely different mechanism from the other models they have.

What about the cleat on Frogs/other Speedplay models? Do they protrude from the shoe more than Crank Bros. or SPD cleats?


I was referring to Frogs, though the X series has similar characteristics, even though the mechanisms are different. However, the X and other road styles are NOT for walking in. My Frog cleats protrude about the same as SPD, which is to say there's no floor contact on the shoes I've tried (Shimano, Sidi) when the shoes are new, but can be some minimal contact when the shoes are worn down a little. It might depend somewhat on where the cleats are positioned. I haven't tried Crank Bros. yet. I'd like to, but I'm happy enough w/ the Frogs that I don't want to complicate things by dedicating one pair of shoes to one bike.

Jack

I use SPD and am pretty good at clipping/unclipping. I've had one incident of the pedal unclipping while pedaling hard urg. But lately I've been reading this thread and tadam! Yesterday I had a 0 km/h crash trying to avoid glass shards while getting on a sidewalk to access a trail; couldn't unclip in time :) It's my second stopped crash this year. I hate these. Well would the speedplay frogs or crank brothers be any better for fast urgent last microsecond unclip? And how can they do that without causing hard-pedal unclip?

Well would the speedplay frogs or crank brothers be any better for fast urgent last microsecond unclip? And how can they do that without causing hard-pedal unclip?

I've no knowledge of Crank Bros., but Frogs have no resistance to lateral movement, which is what's required to disengage. You can do it in "fast urgent last microsecond" mode, but you have to do it instinctively. If you find yourself in panic mode and try to yank your foot out by pulling up, you're not going to get out.

I've NEVER unintentionally unclipped from Frogs, though I have from SPD's and Looks. I did once fail to unclip when trying to w/ Frogs, but as stated above, that's only when using a wide toe-box shoe (Shimano sandal in my case), and only on a fixed gear when a quick back pedal to re-orient the crank wasn't an option. Fortunately it was at 0 mph, in my driveway, with no witnesses. Speedplay has a list of shoes that they say are "incompatible" because of this issue; you can still use 'em, but you might fall down. Most shoes aren't an issue.

Jack

I've got the Performance "Campus" pedals on all the bikes I commute on.....they look like regular platform pedals, but on the one side are spd clips.....awesome for taking off from a standstill and clipping in at a more convenient time.

You can do it in "fast urgent last microsecond" mode, but you have to do it instinctively. If you find yourself in panic mode and try to yank your foot out by pulling up, you're not going to get out.

I think this statement might apply to any pedal. The hard part is changing one's "panic mode" to being able to move the foot in the correct motion, and that's only really going to happen with lots of practice.

I'm still willing to compromise in favor of clipless pedals. I'm going to switch back to Mallets instead of Quattros for around-town riding, though; I'll put the Quattros on whatever road bike I get.

Further consensus on CB, (Quattro and Candy) and also second the opinion that the SL (stainless) spindles are worth the extra ching -- especially for a guy your size, and especially if you're the type that will maintain them and expect them to last for a long time. IMO, the Speedplay are only needed if you have knee or ortho issues, and if you don't, they have some quirks that make them not worth putting up with.

...a pair of Specialized Sport MTB shoes (ugly as Hell, but fit and were on sale at a LBS for $30), and a pair of Crank Brothers Candy C for $40 from JensonUSA. My look cleats are almots pooched, so the timing's right.

I got these on the cheap so I could experiment -- if I like them I'll continue to look for better shoes.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I've got a lot of unclipping unlearning to do, and lots of learning with the new set!

Chris

Well, I've ridden the Candy C's all week, and aside from the cleats coming loose once a day, I like them. They feel a lot more greasy/squishy than my Shimano (Looks) did, but I'm getting used to that.

Tuesday night I applied blue Loctite to the threads of the shoes and so far they're holding...but they creak. What can I expect from a $30 pair of shoes?

That last annoyance is that I have to used the shims because the tread on the shoes is a little too deep to allow easy clip-in, and the left foot slops back and forward slightly when I pull back at the start of the upstroke.

Thanks for all the recommendations! The search for a *good* pair of shoes at a clearance price continues...


Chris

I've been using standard Crank Bros. stainless pedals on both my road bikes (which I also commute on) for the last several years. Never any problems. They're just as comfortable to me on century rides as they are commuting. I Just rebuilt my original set (piece of cake). They would have lasted longer if I ever bothered to grease them. I previously used spd's and had issues with them pulling out when the cleats got worn. This happened only when I was pulling hard on climbs...ouch. I finally came down 1 too many times on the bar and ordered the 1st set of CB's. They have never pulled out or disappointed me in any way.

Scott