Living Car Free - Living with less car - becoming more popular?

It looks that way - look what Kona has:

http://www.konaworld.com/bikes/2k8/images/625/2K8_UTE.jpg

it can be found here: http://www.konaworld.com/08_ute.htm

Nice concept...but why only one frame size? I need a bit more than a 17.5" frame...like 5" more:rolleyes: I have one bike now with a 19" step thru frame with a 400mm seat post. Not the best situation, but for what I need it works for now.

Aaron:)

Great to finally see an alternative to the xtra-cycle.
this is a landmark bike: a major manufacturer catering to us car-lite nuts.
I hope it is a huge success

Seen from where we sit, living with less car may seem to be getting a lot more popular, but let's consider this quote from an article I just read about the mortgage crisis: (italics added by me)

The Pents grieve losing their three-acre property in the middle of horse country, with its swimming pool and fish pond.

"It was my dad's house," said Connie, 39, an elementary schools receptionist. "It's quiet, it's open - we love it."

Their troubles began in April 2006 when they refinanced the remaining $207,000 on a 30-year fixed loan to a two-year adjustable rate mortgage so they could pay down hefty obligations on their SUV and pickup truck.
A mortgage broker informed them just before the closing that the remaining debt would be $3,500 more than expected, but they signed anyway.
"We didn't have time to change the terms so we just signed them," Connie said.

Of course, this family seems to be breathtakingly stupid in a variety of ways, but I'm left to wonder how many other people stumble into foreclosure without even for a second considering getting rid of one or more of their cars, or switching to smaller, less expensive vehicles. Living with less car may be more popular than it used to be, but it's still not a mass movement by any stretch of the imagination.

That Kona's pretty sweet, btw.

It looks that way - look what Kona has:

http://www.konaworld.com/bikes/2k8/images/625/2K8_UTE.jpg

it can be found here: http://www.konaworld.com/08_ute.htm


NICE!!! I love it. I gunna start saving up for that beast.

*I guess all those years of worshiping the gods of Kona paid off!!*

$800!?!? Do they think we're made of money? :fight:

Why doesn't it have a rear brake? With it loaded with plenty of cargo a rear brake would be very useful, even on wet pavement. No rear brake is listed on their web site.

It needs a rear fender too.

Seen from where we sit, living with less car may seem to be getting a lot more popular, but let's consider this quote from an article I just read about the mortgage crisis...
If you're following the mortgage story you might like to look in on the Broker Outpost forum. Broker Outpost is a sibling to Bike Forums, both being operated by the same company.

Broker Outpost Forum (http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/)

It looks that way - look what Kona has:

http://www.konaworld.com/bikes/2k8/images/625/2K8_UTE.jpg

it can be found here: http://www.konaworld.com/08_ute.htm

That is a great bike . How much again?

Wow. That one's built for hauling. There's also the Surley Big Dummy (http://clevercycles.com/blog/?p=150) which seems to be a similar concept.

That is a great bike . How much again?

About eight bills.

My wife, who I am having a nearly impossible time getting on bikes, saw this bike and was actually enthused. To her this was a bike that could actually be usefully. I may end up with one when I return to the states.

If you're following the mortgage story you might like to look in on the Broker Outpost forum. Broker Outpost is a sibling to Bike Forums, both being operated by the same company.

Broker Outpost Forum (http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/)

I took a look, and didn't get it. How anyone can carry on passionate discussions about real estate, and even understand them, is beyond me, I guess. I must be financially ********. It's probably just as well that I didn't replace my fixed-rate mortgage with an ARM so I could make up payments on the Burley Flatbed....

I took a look, and didn't get it. How anyone can carry on passionate discussions about real estate, and even understand them, is beyond me, I guess. I must be financially ********. It's probably just as well that I didn't replace my fixed-rate mortgage with an ARM so I could make up payments on the Burley Flatbed....
I'm no real estate wizard either. I just try to see the big picture. Resource limits ensure that consumer culture can't expand indefinitely. Something will come along to stop it. The free market has apparently chosen the housing bubble and mortgage credit constraint as its means for reining in the AWOL (American Way of Life).

In other words, it wasn't a gas crisis, war, epidemics, or economic collapse. It had to be something, though.

It may still be a while before the average American starts taking cycling seriously as an alternative to cars. But I think it's coming.

My wife, who I am having a nearly impossible time getting on bikes, saw this bike and was actually enthused. To her this was a bike that could actually be usefully. I may end up with one when I return to the states.

This is a pure "utility" bike which might put Surly ahead of the game with folk's like you wife......
and there are alot of folk's like your wife that just want a "bike that works for a living" like this Surly.

Seen from where we sit, living with less car may seem to be getting a lot more popular, but let's consider this quote from an article I just read about the mortgage crisis: (italics added by me) ....
The mortgage crisis was caused by lots of people signing their names for loans that they simply could not pay for over the long run.
That's all it is, and there's no real excuse.
You want to laugh, google search "Dr Housing Bubble's Real Homes of Genius".

-------

The Kona.....

...is nice, in a way. Bicycles are a lot more useful when you can easily carry things on them besides yourself. The one frame size stinks however, and $800 is a lot of money. And it appears they are still using a left-side leaner kickstand, instead of a proper rear-mounted dual kickstand (which makes loading bikes with panniers MUCH easier).
~

The mortgage crisis was caused by lots of people signing their names for loans that they simply could not pay for over the long run.
That's all it is, and there's no real excuse.
You want to laugh, google search "Dr Housing Bubble's Real Homes of Genius".

~

What gets me is they lost her father's home for overpriced cars. A sad situation indeed.

Why doesn't it have a rear brake? With it loaded with plenty of cargo a rear brake would be very useful, even on wet pavement. No rear brake is listed on their web site.

It needs a rear fender too.

The photo shows three cables headed back thataway... Maybe the brake got airbrushed out along with the background?

Looks kinda short in the wheelbase department, though...

Alright, according to completely unscientific measurements referenced against the wheels and seat tube, that looks like a 46-49 inch wheelbase or so. IOW, a little bmx frame with a super-stretched rear triangle and 26 inch wheels. Just barely longer than my ancient unstretched Schwinn Sierra, and that bike's too small for me. Oh well, I could be wrong though. I do like the integrated rack.

It gets better: According to an update on Bikehugger (http://bikehugger.com/2007/08/more_on_konas_ute.htm), they won't be making it compatible with xtracycle stuff. No longbike style accessories until Kona gets around to making their own proprietary goodies. So for now, it's an $800 longbike that's sized for kids, with a giant rear rack you'll have to rig up with something homemade to use. But on the bright side, you'll have the only longbike in town that fits on the bus racks.

From the Bike hugger story you referenced. It seems that the bike will use 700c wheels. No matter what, the frame looks bigger than a BMX frame. However, I will wait until I start seeing pictures of it, the production model, and with something else in the picture.

In other pictures I have seen, the bike clearly had a brake on the seatstay.


700c wheels & tires
longer head tube for better handlebar position
lower top tube to increase standover/clearance
change of specification on stem, grips and saddle (aesthetics)
rear plastic deck on the rear is machined from 100% post consumer recycled material
Ships standard with two specifically designed, grocery-style pannier bags that include a raincover. Four bags capacity with with additional bags and accessories offered.
MSRP is $799, explaining some of the spec decisions (rear V-brake, no internal hub, etc.).
Xtracycle compatibility — ” … the design concept was to make a complete bike that is economical, comfortable, light & offers a cargo area/options. Although we considered making the bike compatible with Xtracycle bags, this compromised the other design objectives. Xtracycle is a wonderful concept, but to accommodate their accessories, we would have added to the weight, complexity and expense of the model. We are definitely considering a variety of accessories & bags that will become available for the bike.”
Wheels — Kona tested this bike with both 26” and 700c wheels and 700cc was preferred
Foot Rests — Kona is considering and will keep us posted

Here, this is from the Kona website.

Frame Size: 17.5"
Head Angle: 71 degrees
Seat Angle 74 degrees
Top Tube 23"
Chain Stay 24.6"
Head Tube 4.3"
BB Height 12"
Standover 29.3"


Please understand that I am interested in this hike primarily because this one of the first bikes that I have shown a picture of to my wife that resulted in a highly positive reaction. There as no where that reaction from the extra-cycle kit.

As far as size goes, I am concerned that it may be too big.

What gets me is they lost her father's home for overpriced cars. A sad situation indeed.
Yes,,,, -but the car bit is really a minor detail.

Lots of people have overextended themselves. Losing your home over a luxury car is a silly thing, but it's just one silly thing, and there's a whole lot of them.

Trying to tack the subprime mess to "car ownership" is simply false. We're going to get a lot more of these sob-stories over the next 12 months, and most of them will have nothing to do with cars. The great majority of them will have something to do with someone taking out more loan than they could pay off with their incomes. (-their actual incomes, not the one they stated on the application-)
~

The great majority of them will have something to do with someone taking out more loan than they could pay off with their incomes. (-their actual incomes, not the one they stated on the application-)

It certainly does seem that people who default on a home loan are likely to have bought a home that was too large/high-priced for them. Excessively large homes are just like cars in that they usually have a high initial cost, they consume lots of petroleum energy ($$) to be usable, and you pay a lot to repair them too. Of course, even a small apartment requires huge amounts of energy to be kept within the 65-85 degree temperature range at all times.

id go with a "big dummy" i think id like the freeloaders better

It certainly does seem that people who default on a home loan are likely to have bought a home that was too large/high-priced for them. Excessively large homes are just like cars in that they usually have a high initial cost, they consume lots of petroleum energy ($$) to be usable, and you pay a lot to repair them too. Of course, even a small apartment requires huge amounts of energy to be kept within the 65-85 degree temperature range at all times.

yes...
and from my experience in another line of work i just kept seeing houses getting pricier and pricier - and the value wasn't really there. in 5 years we've seen an explosion of housing costs - in both new and old stock - so much so that average folks like me and my wife had to work really hard to find something reasonable.

when easy credit fuels a market people who make sensible choices can get shut out because of the frenzy brought on by easy money and the people seeking profits from it. i really wish we had waited a year - there are some really nice places (small, functional, well built, attractive and closer to downtown) that are starting to come back to earth in price. instead we are renovating a POS crafted townhouse (and making it far better than it ever was) that we paid too much for in a really tight market. we didn't have much choice and made the best decision we could...

Sweet bike! Needs an extra wheel though. ;)

Hmm, one frame size only? I guess I'll stick to just slapping an Xtracycle over a bike sized for me instead, then.

id go with a "big dummy" i think id like the freeloaders better

Can an xtracycle kit be installed on a Big Dummy?

Just askin', someone's gotta do it... :D

Can an xtracycle kit be installed on a Big Dummy?

Just askin', someone's gotta do it... :D
Yes. What isn't clear is if the same can be said for the Kona. Anyone going to Interbike?

Yes. What isn't clear is if the same can be said for the Kona. Anyone going to Interbike?

Actually I meant the whole entire kit, extending the wheelbase another 15 inches. :D (would that make it an xtradummy?) But I just peeked at the Surly site and it doesn't look like it could be done, the crossbar at the back of the frame would probably get in the way.