Nutrition on long hilly rides

[banerjek]

How do most people do this? For rides up to 5 hrs or so as well as longer flat rides where I'm not pushing myself, I just drink and eat whatever, but I really prefer perpetuem if I'm on a tough ride that will keep me out all day. However, if it's a hilly ride, I go through quite a bit -- I typically carry 1 - 1.5lbs of the stuff.

I'd like to travel much lighter because that's a lot of weight and bulk. My question is if I'm going to mix provided sports drink and snacks with my own, should I start with my own stuff and switch over later, or the other way around?

[Carbonfiberboy]

I try to use my own stuff as kind of a base, and then use found stuff as it appears. I don't use provided sports drinks, though. Effect unknown. I find a pint of powder lasts 3 hours when used as my sole food source, no matter how difficult the ride. But for brevets I also have to eat actual meals periodically, as even the pint of powder/3 hrs. isn't enough for anything over 12 hours.

[ericgu]

How do most people do this? For rides up to 5 hrs or so as well as longer flat rides where I'm not pushing myself, I just drink and eat whatever, but I really prefer perpetuem if I'm on a tough ride that will keep me out all day. However, if it's a hilly ride, I go through quite a bit -- I typically carry 1 - 1.5lbs of the stuff.

I'd like to travel much lighter because that's a lot of weight and bulk. My question is if I'm going to mix provided sports drink and snacks with my own, should I start with my own stuff and switch over later, or the other way around?

I don't like to depend on the food on rides. I will carry enough powder mix for whatever drink I'm using - and yes, that might mean that I start with 7 snack-size ziplocs in my jersey pocket, along with a bagel, jerky, newtons, and whatever else I use.

If you're out of a long time, remember that perpetuem has almost no salt in it. Most people sweat out somewhere in the range of 500-1000mg of salt/liter, and perpetuem has perhaps 300mg per liter. You can easily get into a deficit situation after 3 or 4 hours (or even sooner). If it's hilly and you're sweating a lot, you may need real salt capsules (endurolytes have too little to be useful).

But it's really not that much food - I'm only looking for 300 cal/hour when I'm riding, so if I'm out for 5 hours, that's perhaps 3-4 bottles of acclerade (at 250 cal/bottle) and another 500 calories or so of food.

[the engine]

I had an interesting thing happen on this subject recently ...

I had been training for an extremely hilly century, and fueling with HEED, Hammer Gels, Endurox, and Clif Bars. I'd try real food, but by 50 miles or so, I didn't want real food anymore, including the Clif Bars. So, I planned on using mostly powders and gels for the ride, and some Ensure near the end for the extra vitamins and protein. Which is what I usually use on long rides.

When I started the ride, I had 6 ziplocs of endorox and heed ( 2 heed, 4 endorox), 6 gel packs, and 2 clif bars, 2 bottles of Ensure as well as a bag of 18 Endurolytes in my jersey pockets. When I finished the ride, I had all the ziplocs, and the clif bars still in my jersey pocket. I started with 2 bottles of heed, which I drank until the first stop, after that, for some reason I just fueled with what they provided on the ride, PB&J sandwiches, bananas, power bars and gatorade. I actually only ate the bananas, 1 P,B&J, and gatorade, and used the gels when I felt a "slow down" coming on. I used 6 Endurolytes at each rest stop (every 20 miles) at 40, 60, and 80 miles. Oh, and I had 2 bottles of Ensure in my jersey pocket as well, and drank them at about 65 and 85 miles. Ensure works well for me on long rides, and it leeps well in the heat ... I advise diluting it with some water though, it's pretty thick right out of the bottle.

I know all the theory behind using complex carb fuels (Heed) over simple sugar (Gatorade) fuels, ect., and for some reason I just didn't follow my plan like I expected..

This was the hilliest, toughest century I've ever done (8000' of climbing, in 90*+, humid weather). It was the Livestrong Challenge in Philly. At the end, the last 20 miles I was hammering, and felt great. No way to explain it, it just worked out that way. So, now I won't worry so much about what fuels I use, as long as I fuel enough during the ride.

I have a century coming up at the end of this month, and I'll still pack my pockets like I always do, but who knows how I'll actually fuel during the ride. PB&J, bananas and gatorade seemed to work just fine. I'll definitely use the gels and Ensure along the way ... they're easy to consume, and not as messy as dealing with ziplocs of sticky powder in the hot sun, when I'm tired, and don't feel like fiddling with my fuel just to be able to use it.

Just passing along my experience ...

[Machka]

If I'm out on a 5 hour ride, I just bring 5 bars of some sort. I'm not into "energy bars" anymore, but I'll bring granola bars or cookies or something.

For my beverage, I use HEED. Gatorade causes mouth sores ... very unpleasant.

And I'll bring some money so I can pick up a bottle of orange juice and maybe beef jerky or corn chips, if I feel the urge for them, along the way.

[Godwin]

I usually start out with water or water mixed with Emergen-C then stop for sports drinks, fruit juice, and water as I feel I need. I usually carry a few clif bars but try not to eat them unless my body's really telling me I should and there's no store in sight. Otherwise I stop and get things like bananas and sandwiches (energy, carbs, and protein). Often I'll still feel like somethings missing so I'll have a clif bar then.

I say keep your own stuff as long as you can find good snacks along the way because you can't be sure of what you'll find ahead.

[ronjon10]

Heed & Peanut (or cashew or almond) Butter sandwiches will get me as far as I care to go on a bike in one day.

[chill123]

1 pbj bagel, 1 nana, 1 energy bar, 1 gel, 1.5l of water, 750ml of electrolyte drink = 100 miles for me!

[valygrl]

I just discovered that a bag of Doritos and a Diet Coke is just the thing to get me through the last 20 miles. Before, I have been eating almost all sweet/carb snacks, but the salt/caffeine combo seems to be very energizing.

[big john]

1 pbj bagel, 1 nana, 1 energy bar, 1 gel, 1.5l of water, 750ml of electrolyte drink = 100 miles for me!
Wow, not enough. Last Saturday, 80 miles with 8800 feet of climbing took 200 ozs water with 2 packs powder, 4 bars, 1 muffin, 2 cokes, 1/2 chicken sandwich, and some fries. Felt great at the end and dropped my friends on the last climb, (except Sarah, who caught me at the end).
I am liking Perpeteum. I hate gels.

[the engine]

I am liking Perpeteum. I hate gels.

I find Perpeteum does not keep well in the heat, and it does not mix well for me ... too messy too. That's just me though.

What I found by my last experience ... just be sure you fuel enough. Find the things you like and can tolorate, and go with it. Eat what you can that is provided on organized rides, so you keep your food, theres is free (not really, you paid for it in your fee), and yours cost you money at the store. On solo rides, I carry enough for most of the ride, because I've learned not to count on always being able to find a store, when my body is shutting down from running low on fuel ... except water. I can usually find water somewhere. I've often found churches with outdoor water spiquets to be a good resource.

What's up with folks being able to drink carbonated drinks when riding ... man, that won't work for me at all. That would put me in upset stomach hell. :(

[big john]

I recently started using Perpeteum, didn't know about the heat thing. I've also tried the Powerbar mix and the Clif mix, both with good results, but didn't use them a lot. I was using Cytomax but after 1 bottle it seems too sweet and after using up a whole can, I can't tolerate it anymore. I'm afraid to buy a large can of anything and just keep switching around. I always have good results with regular food and baked goods. A small amount of fries and a Coke is fine sometimes late in the ride.
Those MetRx bars upset my stomach as do gels.

[Pinyon]

I use a real food (fruit/granola bars, fig newtons, dried fruit, soy-nuts, etc.), water, and gu-gels. When it is really hot, I may throw a sports drink in there for some more electrolites, but I prefer gu-gels because they allow me to control how much sugar-gunk hits my belly at a time. Even on really hilly and sweaty rides, I have found that I should only need to eat after the first 1.5-2 hours, and then I alternate between either one 150-200 calorie serving of real food and gu-gels per hour (food, wait an hour, gu-gel, repeat) to ride hard for up to 8 hours solid without bonking or getting muscle cramps. I get stomach problems if I consume much more than that while riding hard, and bonk after 3.5-5 hours, depending on the weather and terrain, if I don't eat anything at all during a ride.

I should also mention that I tend to eat a little bit extra of things like oatmeal or other slow-digestable carbs the night before (I also like hot multi-grain cereals and Mediteranian-style whole grain salads), and the morning of a strenuous ride (not "carb loading", but just a little extra). I also make sure that I'm really hydrated at the beginning of the ride. If I'm not looking for a place to stop and make water within the first hour of the ride, then I did not drink enough before the ride (my overall performance and enjoyment on 4+ hour rides are better with at least 2-3 restroom breaks, than if I'm dehydrated).

Eveybody is a little bit different. You need to experiment with your long and hilly training rides to see what works for you.

Have fun out there!

[MarkAJ]

Water at the start then follow up with Perpeteum. I like this stuff it carries me far. I always carry some bars and Cliff Shots. Long rides add-in PBJ and banana. Many times on rides of 75-100 miles in the last quarter of the ride I have stopped to get a coke. It really picks me up with no problems. Can not say enough about pre-hydration and carrying some money for a ride.

[Paniolo]

Most of the literature on the subject will tell you the max your body can metabolize is 45-60g of carbs per hour. (I know about the recent studies about using different sugars to increase this, but KISS) Planning on that as a target for every hour, including the first, really simplified it for me and also really helped my performance on century rides. Whatever your body can tolerate to hit that goal is good. Combine that with proper hydration ... I know I need up to 55 oz per hour in hot TX conditions. Sports drink is good cause you get both nutrition and hydration.

I just start my hrm/stop watch and mentally keep track of when I've consumed my 45+g of carbs, then start thinking of the next hour. It's very easy to keep up with and no worries about total consumption. In general I'll move from real food to gel at the very end of the ride as my appetite goes away. Plus a gel flask provides a quick boost if needed. Currently I usually go with Gator Aide (cheap :)), Fig Bars, Clif Bars and Hammer Gel flask with some Enduralyte tablets for electrolytes. Here are some aprox carb values for those items: A water bottle of sports drink ~45 g; Fig Bar 15g/square or 4 squares/hr; Cliff Bar 45g, Gel shot 20g.

Last supported century I probably got 80% of my nutrition from the rest stops. Just eat whatever sounds good and have an idea of how many carbs you consume.

[songfta]

Yeah, Perpetuem is really volatile in hot conditions, and will ferment quite quickly. I've found that keeping it in Polar insulated bottles is the best bet, and storing it in the fridge when at home, and in a cooler with ice packs while traveling to the ride start, will prevent fermentation and off-tasting problems.

Here's my nutrition strategy for long, hilly (10,000+ feet of climbing) centuries and long-distance rides. It presumes adequate nutrition (good amounts of carbs, protein, sodium, calcium and potassium) and hydration for at least 1-2 days prior to the long ride, as well as a decent-yet-not-huge breakfast (typically 8 oz. yogurt, bowl of oatmeal with brown sugar, banana, 12 oz. coffee and 16 oz. juice, plus water and/or HEED):

- 1 24 oz. bottle of Perpetuem (2 scoops of powder per bottle) every 80-90 minutes.
- 1 24 oz. bottle of water with a couple pinches of sea salt in it per hour (or even more if the heat index is high) or 1 24 oz. bottle of HEED with a pinch of sea salt added per hour.
- 1 gel of some sort every 60-80 minutes (love the Honey Stingers, tho' the new PowerBar Gel is great, too).
- 1 bar (usually granola or Clif) every 2 hours.
- 1 banana or PB & honey around mile 70 (or, if the ride has 'em, a tomato/cucumber/hummus pita).

Immediately post-ride, I drink one 20 oz. bottle of PowerBar Recovery (typically kept in a cooler in my car), as well as a 16 oz. bottle of chocolate milk. I also eat a balanced meal that's not too heavy, but high in protein.

I sweat like mad, so hydration and electrolytes are key to keeping upright and cramp-free. This system works especially well for me, and often means fewer long rest/reloading stops along the way.

[vik]

I tried the Hammer Nutrition products, but I couldn't handle the taste at 10K let alone after 200K. It did seem to work as advertised when I could get it down.

I've switched to eating foods that I can find at gas stations and convenience stores. Not very high tech, but I'd rather carry a minimal amount of emergency food and stock up as I go then try and carry enough specialized foods for a long ride. Trying to ride 400K+ and carrying all your food from the start seems like a huge hassle. I'm trying condition myself to run on easily accessible food. So far so good, but I'm aware that problems may arise as ride lengths increase.

[jcm]

A long day ride for me is 80 to 100 miles. I don't just crack 'em off at the drop of a hat. A century takes a little prep over the two weeks working up to it. Work gets in the way so I can't schedule the ramp-up easily. So, that's my scenario.

As for food and drink, I'm a Hoover. I vacuum up anything and everything all along the way, in no particular order. I also bring 2 liters of water if the route is somewhat remote, and a bunch of oatbars and maybe an apple in the trunk. I start the day with a large bowl of grits with P-butter and honey, two pieces of buttered toast, and a glass of milk. oh yeah, and a banana as I'm heading out the door.

[Richard Cranium]

I'd like to travel much lighter because that's a lot of weight and bulk. My question is if I'm going to mix provided sports drink and snacks with my own, should I start with my own stuff and switch over later, or the other way around?Every ride will be different. As long as you give it some thought, just figure it the best you can. The bigger deal is when you go somewhere and you don't know for sure the distances between stops, nor the for sure just how hilly the route is.

In any case, I believe in throwing down more fluid early, and waiting till later to worry about protein etc.....

[ChrisL]

I just started cycling a month ago and I just completed the MS 150 last weekend and was able to keep up the 20-21mph pace. I was so hungry during the last hour of the ride and for the next two days after the ride. Does anyone have any suggestions for carbo-loading or for eating solid food that will not make me sick?

[vicjane]

I don't know what it available and quick in around your part of the world. I am known for my cast iron stomach and I will eat anything. I recently did a 600 km ride fuelled mostly by ham and chees toasted sandwiches, lasagna and lots of snacks. Ginger beer also works well for me! My motto is- if it goes down and stays down, it is good for you. Now, if only I could enjoy that early morning breakfast before a big ride! I use GU only as an emergency as I have found once I start using these I need to continue and I much prefer real food. It burns longer too