"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Why Cat 5 class is So hard for begginers

I've been riding for 3 years now. On a group ride up at school with some cat 3 racers, we were doing a hammer fest over some hills. At the end, one racer asked me if what class I raced in. I tell him I've never raced. He kinda urged me to start racing saying I would be close to cat 3 material as is. So I enter a race. First race, I finish mid pack. Nothing special. 2nd race, I try for both prenes, pull a close second in both, then finish 4th. Next crit, I enter was the crit state champs. I pull in 5th. I also did a lower level canadian crit where it was a much more relaxed feel, and 1 1/2 hrs long, and won 2 prenes/sprint points and finished 3rd.

Talking to some other racers (cat 3) they were saying with results like that, I would do fine in cat 4. This weekend, there are 4 crits (although only 1 is a US crit, the others in Canada :( ) So I request an upgrade to cat4.

Result: DENIED. The rules are clear I must do 10 mass starts before moving up. So that means for almost another half a season (we do not have that many crits around here) I will have to be in Cat5. In cat5 there are 2 diffrent groups that show up. The people that should be there legitimately, and those that are waiting to move up. At the crits that I have done, the pack always splits into two real quick. This is why.

The 5 ---> 4 rules are in place almost exclusively to ensure some level of experience before toeing the line as a 4. It has little or nothing to do with ability. Case in point, there are no upgrade points from 5 ---> 4. If you happen to dominate a 5 field, it's purely coincidental and probably not related to your experience as a cat 5 racer. Better to get the experience.

Mark

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics. If you're able to keep up with cat-3s in training, you're throwing away all that fitness and speed on bad tactics. You should be able to win EVERY single cat-5 race you enter. Win 5 in a row and the DR will typically let you upgrade easily In the next race, relax and practice the following:

1. follow one guy and one guy only around the course. Do it for at least 2-5 laps. This teaches you to conserve energy and more importantly, how to follow a wheel. After 2-3 laps, if your guy is not keeping you near the front of the field, then look for another guy that's staying near the front and follow HIM and ONLY him

2. hold your line, similar to above. When the wheel in front of you goes left, you go left. When it goes it right, you go right. When it slows down, you slow down. When it speeds up, you speed up. These variations are much less extreme near the front of the pack

3. stop going for primes until you've won some races. But use them to learn how to read the other racers. Look after EVERY single prime and notice who are in the top-5 in contention for each one. Follow THEM around.

4. find the guys that's been winning those race you've entered and follow HIM around the entire race. Then sprint by him to take the win.

Good luck!

^^^ I swear it's like having Obi wan kenobi give racing advice.

Primes in a Cat5 race? not in Sourthern California.

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics.

And the other half is pack skill, much of which is cerebellar and obtained only with real live practice.

Primes in a Cat5 race? not in Sourthern California.

Sometimes there are, but it depends on the race. When I was a cat 5 I won a Giro Atmos in the SDSR crit, but usually its a canister of Accelerade or some socks.

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics. If you're able to keep up with cat-3s in training, you're throwing away all that fitness and speed on bad tactics. You should be able to win EVERY single cat-5 race you enter. Win 5 in a row and the DR will typically let you upgrade easily In the next race, relax and practice the following:

1. follow one guy and one guy only around the course. Do it for at least 2-5 laps. This teaches you to conserve energy and more importantly, how to follow a wheel. After 2-3 laps, if your guy is not keeping you near the front of the field, then look for another guy that's staying near the front and follow HIM and ONLY him

2. hold your line, similar to above. When the wheel in front of you goes left, you go left. When it goes it right, you go right. When it slows down, you slow down. When it speeds up, you speed up. These variations are much less extreme near the front of the pack

3. stop going for primes until you've won some races. But use them to learn how to read the other racers. Look after EVERY single prime and notice who are in the top-5 in contention for each one. Follow THEM around.

4. find the guys that's been winning those race you've entered and follow HIM around the entire race. Then sprint by him to take the win.

Good luck!

5. If the guy in front slows down, don't jam the brakes. Keep pedaling and slightly apply the brakes to slow yourself down. You don't have brakelights. If you slow sudddenly, you'll get nailed from behind.

6. Look ahead and see what's going on so you can anticipate speed changes or other issues so you don't ride into a problem.

6. Look ahead and see what's going on so you can anticipate speed changes or other issues so you don't ride into a problem.

The cheese-d*ck Army phrase applicable to racing is "Stay alert, stay alive."

Look side to side, near and far, and keep your ears open to what's going on behind you.

3. stop going for primes until you've won some races.

Yeah, asmallsol, stop listening to those idiots goading you into going for primes.




For everyone else's info, the last race around here was a 90+3 'B-level' (theoretically 3/4/5 combo); part of a season-long series. It was my first time there, but it seemed as if the people there were used to a PAINFULLY slow pace.

I don't have the willpower to do nothing all race on a Thursday. Maybe I would if it was an critical-to-me type race; but I'm just looking to have some fun and get in a good workout.

Do you have any training races in the area on weeknights? Doesn't matter which races you did, just that they are sanctioned. Sounds like your ditrict rep is being a bit of a hard-ass and playing the rules way to tight. Cat5's are for true beginners. You've passed that test.

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics. If you're able to keep up with cat-3s in training, you're throwing away all that fitness and speed on bad tactics. You should be able to win EVERY single cat-5 race you enter.

+1 to this. During my racing retirement, after my weight ballooned from 165 to 220, I did a Cat 5 crit and got third just off experience. I was in horrible shape. Gotta suck to get worked by a fat guy with hairy legs on a 12 year old bike.

Cat-5 is not hard.

I coach a college team. At the beginning of our road season around 5-7 of our riders are racing for the first time. I tell all of them that a good goal is to finish your first bike race in the field. Skills are certainly part of the difficulty but the bigger one is the range of riders in the field. Some have been riding for years, others for one year, still others for weeks. They have varying athletic backgrounds (NCAA athletes to "I was pretty good in high school"). They all react differently to riding in a big pack for the first time.

The mark of these things goes on long after your first race. Further many people make riskier and riskier moves until they crash. This may be in the first, second, third, etc. race. Some people make training mistakes in the interim between races. Others develop anxiety.

By the time you get into cat 4 these differences have narrowed a bit. They're even less in 3.

The reason this is so surprising for people is because cycling development is crap. Several people I know have suggested that college racing is development. Development starting at 19 years old?!?

Primes in a Cat5 race? not in Sourthern California.

We have them here in MABRA too. Normally just prizes or gift certificates. No cash. I remember a crit in Frederick last year were they were giving away 6 packs of beer as primes in our 35+ 4/5 race.

I have seen a few primes in CAT 5 races in socal....

more importantly i have seen allot of (probably including myself) no talent riders.

Either way its awesome....i can't wait to upgrade early next year to 4s, i did the CAT 4/5 race last sunday at Ontario and it was nice and smooth in the front half....much jerkier and rough in the back half.

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics.

You are, of course, referring to flat Cat 5 crits. I've yet to see anyone strategicize their way to victory on a course with any kind of hill.

Definitely more experience in the 4's, but you still see toolbags on seats here and there and at one circuit race in August a dude had lugged steel w/HUGE touring lights front and back on his bike and was attacking like a mofo.

Definitely more experience in the 4's, but you still see toolbags on seats here and there and at one circuit race in August a dude had lugged steel w/HUGE touring lights front and back on his bike and was attacking like a mofo.

I once heard about this dude who showed up for his first road race with argyle socks and an ancient Raleigh with a huge pie plate for a chain ring. He even talked smack before the start about buying people dinner if they could keep up with him.

You are, of course, referring to flat Cat 5 crits. I've yet to see anyone strategicize their way to victory on a course with any kind of hill.

yeah.....hills definitally create separation from those that have trained and those that haven't...the packs are way more strung out in hilly crits.

I once heard about this dude who showed up for his first road race with argyle socks and an ancient Raleigh with a huge pie plate for a chain ring. He even talked smack before the start about buying people dinner if they could keep up with him.

That would mentally cripple me.

I think I'll try it.

That would mentally cripple me.

I think I'll try it.

Helps if your floyd landis

Experiment with tactics. Try sitting on wheels the whole race then sprinting for the finish. Try an early breakaway. Try a late breakaway. Try attacking immediately after a prime. Try attacking on a climb. Try attacking immediately after a climb. Try making friends before the race and at the start line and organize a breakaway with a couple other guys. Critique each race afterwards and think of other things you could have, or should have done differently, then try them next time. Cat-5 is for learning. Don't pass up the opportunity. No need to rush the upgrade either.

If you finished in the pack in your first race and got a top 5 in your second race and then the state championships, you're cat3 material. As said above, you just need to get some experience so you can use that power better and not take anyone out. Remember, the 4 guys that beat you are probably just holdouts or sandbaggers who should have upgraded to 4 already.

Others develop anxiety.


Oh wow, I didn't know this was something that develops.

I think I'm starting to have this issue. Every time I ride in a group now, I seem to get more and more nervous, thus getting more and more skittish. Mostly because I don't trust the guy in front of me, whereas before it wasn't an issue, as I didn't know what to expect.

Is there anything I can do to calm down?

Oh wow, I didn't know this was something that develops.

I think I'm starting to have this issue. Every time I ride in a group now, I seem to get more and more nervous, thus getting more and more skittish. Mostly because I don't trust the guy in front of me, whereas before it wasn't an issue, as I didn't know what to expect.

Is there anything I can do to calm down?



Baby steps. Find your own comfort zone, then up the ante a bit more, then a bit more and so on...

And no death grip.

This weekend, there are 4 crits (although only 1 is a US crit, the others in Canada

FYI, I just found out the Saturday Crit is Pro/1/2 only.

Result: DENIED. The rules are clear I must do 10 mass starts before moving up.

This is a case by case basis. I have seen two guys here this year be told they had to upgrade from 5-4 with a total of three starts between them. One was after a two day race, crit first day he lapped the field and RR the next he finished WAY ahead of everyone else. The second guys first race was a crit and he also lapped the field.

I never actually raced a Cat5 race...

1 Citizens + 7 Collegiate races and I was a 4.

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics. If you're able to keep up with cat-3s in training, you're throwing away all that fitness and speed on bad tactics. You should be able to win EVERY single cat-5 race you enter. Win 5 in a row and the DR will typically let you upgrade easily In the next race, relax and practice the following:

1. follow one guy and one guy only around the course. Do it for at least 2-5 laps. This teaches you to conserve energy and more importantly, how to follow a wheel. After 2-3 laps, if your guy is not keeping you near the front of the field, then look for another guy that's staying near the front and follow HIM and ONLY him

2. hold your line, similar to above. When the wheel in front of you goes left, you go left. When it goes it right, you go right. When it slows down, you slow down. When it speeds up, you speed up. These variations are much less extreme near the front of the pack

3. stop going for primes until you've won some races. But use them to learn how to read the other racers. Look after EVERY single prime and notice who are in the top-5 in contention for each one. Follow THEM around.

4. find the guys that's been winning those race you've entered and follow HIM around the entire race. Then sprint by him to take the win.

Good luck!

Yes and no. If you have the basic fitness necessary to be able to hang with the pack, then you're right: it becomes all about bike handling, positioning, strategy, and smarts ,etc.

But, if you can't keep up with the group in the first place, then all the smarts in the world won't be of any use to you.

[Believe me, I learned this lesson the HARD way. Some of those Cat. 5 races are way fast and can tear your legs off].

Bob

Well, today in my crit (held over in the great state of Canada :) ) it was an hour and a half +3 laps, with 2 sprint points, 1 cash prime, and one merchandise prime, I took both sprint points, the cash prime ($10can aka 9.78 american :( ) and first place. Ended up winning a nice Specialized Computer, another XL tee shirt, and now moved up in the overall points standings for sprinters to first, and moved up a few spots for the overall standings in this series.

But of course, as many of you say, I should stay in cat5 for experience? For some reason I think otherwise.

If you feel comfortable racing with the 4s, move up. You have good results.

I personally feel like I learned far more about actual racing in the 3s than I ever did in the 4s, or College B's (Cat4/5), because Cat4 races are almost always the same boring affair. I barely escaped the 4s (didn't have all the points, but some good finishes witnessed by upgrade official in person) but the 3s have been more my style.

Congrats! Well done race. When you get out of the 5s, you will continue to improve and keep moving up.

Since you have to fulfill your 10 race minimum, I'd recommend that you get as much out of the 5s as possible. You should try different strategies, sacrificing the win for the education. Try attacking with everything you have. If they catch you, go again. Try blocking for someone else's attack. Just try some stuff that doesn't involve sprinting to see if you can improve in other areas.

...held over in the great state of Canada...

Careful there, Sonny boy...We take that s**t pretty seriously.

About your racing: Sounds like you're sitting in and jumping for the small prize.

Why don't you try engineering a break or, letting a buddy go up the road and see if you can't block for him or something else other than sprinting for primes. Sounds like you've got fitness and have figured out how to sprint in Cat 5 but racing isn't just about sprinting.

Why don't you go into the next race with a specific strategy in mind and see if you can execute it. Even better, find a buddy and see if you can work with someone. You have an opportunity to learn and experiment before things start getting faster and longer and you are surrounded by guys who will use your enthusiasm to their benefit and then leave you crushed by the side of the road.

If you want to do well at races you're going to have to hook up with a club or a team. have a look around at the next few races and see who is organized and has riders who are either on the same curve as you (ready to upgrade to cat 4) or who have a presence in the Cat 4 or Cat 3 races. as you move up this will become more and more important.

Congrats! Well done race. When you get out of the 5s, you will continue to improve and keep moving up.

Since you have to fulfill your 10 race minimum, I'd recommend that you get as much out of the 5s as possible. You should try different strategies, sacrificing the win for the education. Try attacking with everything you have. If they catch you, go again. Try blocking for someone else's attack. Just try some stuff that doesn't involve sprinting to see if you can improve in other areas.

It's like you're in my head or something. You're freakin' me out. And this has happened more than once!

Since, I'm in my head full-time, if your's looks like mine, I fear for you.

;)

Well, today in my crit (held over in the great state of Canada :) ) it was an hour and a half +3 laps, with 2 sprint points, 1 cash prime, and one merchandise prime, I took both sprint points, the cash prime ($10can aka 9.78 american :( ) and first place. Ended up winning a nice Specialized Computer, another XL tee shirt, and now moved up in the overall points standings for sprinters to first, and moved up a few spots for the overall standings in this series.

But of course, as many of you say, I should stay in cat5 for experience? For some reason I think otherwise.

CONGRATULATIONS! You did a great job.

I should mention to everyone else that asmall is being a humble - he's now leading the sprint competition for a ~12 event series after only showing up for two events.

If you feel comfortable racing with the 4s, move up. You have good results.

They gave him the big N-O. I think he should type up his results thus far, though, and bring them to Monday's race to cat up...

Yes and no. If you have the basic fitness necessary to be able to hang with the pack, then you're right: it becomes all about bike handling, positioning, strategy, and smarts ,etc.

But, if you can't keep up with the group in the first place, then all the smarts in the world won't be of any use to you.

[Believe me, I learned this lesson the HARD way. Some of those Cat. 5 races are way fast and can tear your legs off].

BobYeah, I think he's got more than enough basic fitness as he's hanging with the cat-3s in training. That's some serious speed for a cat-5 race. :) I can only surmise that his lack of results is due to non-physical factors in the race.

Well, today in my crit (held over in the great state of Canada :) ) it was an hour and a half +3 laps, with 2 sprint points, 1 cash prime, and one merchandise prime, I took both sprint points, the cash prime ($10can aka 9.78 american :( ) and first place. Ended up winning a nice Specialized Computer, another XL tee shirt, and now moved up in the overall points standings for sprinters to first, and moved up a few spots for the overall standings in this series.

But of course, as many of you say, I should stay in cat5 for experience? For some reason I think otherwise.Hey good job on your latest race. Keep it up for 5 wins in a row for experience and move up to the 4s. :). You'll find that the 4s ride a tighter pack with more aggressive jumps. They shove and push a lot more and will tend to try more risky maneuvers. If you win several races in 5s where you're completely at ease anywhere in the pack, can make up positions from dead-last and go for breaks right after a prime, then you're ready to move up.

Yeah, I think he's got more than enough basic fitness as he's hanging with the cat-3s in training. That's some serious speed for a cat-5 race. :) I can only surmise that his lack of results is due to non-physical factors in the race.

That's for sure...

My comments were not about the OP. They were directed at your suggestion that Cat. 5 racing in general is not hard. Other prospective Cat. 5's reading that might be in for a rude awakening when they get gapped before they've even managed to clip in at the start.

Bob

Cat-5 is not hard. Bike-racing has about 10-15% to do with fitness and strength and about 80-90% mental strategy and learning tactics. If you're able to keep up with cat-3s in training, you're throwing away all that fitness and speed on bad tactics. You should be able to win EVERY single cat-5 race you enter. Win 5 in a row and the DR will typically let you upgrade easily In the next race, relax and practice the following:

1. follow one guy and one guy only around the course. Do it for at least 2-5 laps. This teaches you to conserve energy and more importantly, how to follow a wheel. After 2-3 laps, if your guy is not keeping you near the front of the field, then look for another guy that's staying near the front and follow HIM and ONLY him

2. hold your line, similar to above. When the wheel in front of you goes left, you go left. When it goes it right, you go right. When it slows down, you slow down. When it speeds up, you speed up. These variations are much less extreme near the front of the pack

3. stop going for primes until you've won some races. But use them to learn how to read the other racers. Look after EVERY single prime and notice who are in the top-5 in contention for each one. Follow THEM around.

4. find the guys that's been winning those race you've entered and follow HIM around the entire race. Then sprint by him to take the win.

Good luck!

Incorrect. Yet..Correct.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you have it upside down, but you can be Mr. Strategy and if you don't have the snot, forget about it. Seriously.

I'd put it more like 50% genetics, 20% training, 30% tactics. And I think that is extremely light on the genetics. That's a general observation. Danno's analysis might well apply within the subset of highly telented men or women contesting the toughest races @ the higher levels of amateur racing. I personally know a guy whose genetic component is better than most opponents. He crushes in TT's. He doesn't do so well in big mass start races. Because on that level, Danno's comments would seem to apply.

By the way, the most profound thing anyone ever said to me regarding racing came after I commented to a fellow vets racer (early in my racing career) that 'racing is hard'.

He looked at me without hesitation and replied:

'Racing is easy. TRAINING is hard.'

The more I thought about it, the truer it got. You train hard, racing becomes FUN. But training that way IS hard.

Incorrect. Yet..Correct.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you have it upside down, but you can be Mr. Strategy and if you don't have the snot, forget about it. Seriously.

I'd put it more like 50% genetics, 20% training, 30% tactics. And I think that is extremely light on the genetics. That's a general observation. Danno's analysis might well apply within the subset of highly telented men or women contesting the toughest races @ the higher levels of amateur racing. I personally know a guy whose genetic component is better than most opponents. He crushes in TT's. He doesn't do so well in big mass start races. Because on that level, Danno's comments would seem to apply.True, most of my 10-years of racing was done at the cat-3 & 1/2/pro level so I may have generalized about the various factors that go into the results. At the beginning levels when there's a much, much wider spread in physical fitness, that can represent a larger contribution to the final results. :)

True, most of my 10-years of racing was done at the cat-3 & 1/2/pro level so I may have generalized about the various factors that go into the results. At the beginning levels when there's a much, much wider spread in physical fitness, that can represent a larger contribution to the final results. :)

Your observations are very accurate for high level racing. On the Cat 4/5 level the guy wearing floppy socks who shows up on the Schwinn Varsity solo's away and gets signed to a pro deal the next week : ).

Cue the Floyd Landis argyle socks story.

Its hard cuz your a beginner, and in general Cat 5 is the blind leading the blind. That is a real issue with our system. Ideally find a larger club with racing emphasis, one with "club" races on closed course (eg industrial park) where you'll be able to race shoulder the shoulder with seasoned racers. Much steeper learning curve.

Amongst all this talk about 50% this and 20% that something is missing. Bottom line while all are important, without coaching and riding with experinced racers you will waste years getting to where you might have been in one season. You need to factor this into your program or continue to flounder.

Ive always thought martial arts were cool, think ill go buy a book, and read a few web sites. I should make black belt in a couple years, after all my genetics are good, my strength, fitness and flexibility are good. Nothin holding me back at all!

Its hard cuz your a beginner, and in general Cat 5 is the blind leading the blind. That is a real issue with our system. Ideally find a larger club with racing emphasis, one with "club" races on closed course (eg industrial park) where you'll be able to race shoulder the shoulder with seasoned racers. Much steeper learning curve.

Amongst all this talk about 50% this and 20% that something is missing. Bottom line while all are important, without coaching and riding with experinced racers you will waste years getting to where you might have been in one season. You need to factor this into your program or continue to flounder.

Ive always thought martial arts were cool, think ill go buy a book, and read a few web sites. I should make black belt in a couple years, after all my genetics are good, my strength, fitness and flexibility are good. Nothin holding me back at all!

Spot on. That was why I suggested using the remaining few races to look for a group of guys or better yet, a club or team, that seems well organized and can help you along the way. Cat 4/5 is still about individual talent. As you move up the mental part of the sport becomes a much larger factor. Maximizing your training becomes more important. And I'm sure we can collectively come up with a thousand different things that can only be gotten through experience and either proper coaching or, at the very least, some mentoring.

Use the opportunity you have to make a strong impression on those teams and clubs that are out there. If you continue to do well (congrats by the way) maybe they will come to you (but don't count on it:D). Or at the very least, they won't blow you off when you approach them.

I have a funny story about this actually. It is a bit of a tangent so if you're in a hurry just skip this bit.

A few weeks ago there was one of a series of National Team Selection Races. Since I am a foreigner (not a local) they wouldn't let me ride in the race. (They used to but myself and another foreigner worked for our local team mate and some people got peeved:p). Anywho...They did let me ride the age group race so I was standing around while 2 of my team mates (who are locals) rode in the selection race.

While I'm standing there, this young guy comes up to me with his friends. They have a club or a team or something. We do a couple of pictures and, while we're standing there, the kid says, "I kinda suck but I really want to be on your team. OK?" My hand to GOD, true story. I had to ask someone to translate because I didn't actually believe what I was hearing. I thought I had completely misunderstood him. Turns out I had heard him correctly. Needless to say, it suddenly became very important for me to leave and go to the feedzone.

OK back to my point. The thing is, we are looking for at least 1 more developmental rider so, when I go to a race, I always have my eyes open. I know many of the coaches from other teams are the same way. Guys who win races, consistently, at the juniour of Cat 5 level, get noticed. It can open doors for you later. Don't piss away the opportunity.