I'm sold on the extreme forward position. A guy in our time trials group has what he calls a "nuts off the front" sitting style and he wears out his seat on the nose and his shorts in the same spot.

I've recently been trying out this sitting position and I have four comments:

1. It's uncomfortable and I worry about causing repeated microtrauma to my perineum
2. It's noticeably more aerodynamic and faster, much moreso than an aero helmet plus 82 mm front wheel
3. It's more powerful with a power increase in the area of 15-20 watts
4. Handling is quite sketchy anywhere near traffic

So I really, really want to take care of #1 in order to get #2 and #3. Is there a seat nose that does your perineum right?

Why do you believe that how your butt is supported makes any difference to speed or power? Move your saddle forward and be done with it.

Why do you believe that how your butt is supported makes any difference to speed or power? Move your saddle forward and be done with it.

It's all the way forward. By sitting on the nose, I can get further forward. This opens my hip angle and transfers more of my weight to the bars. This is a fairly common position.

Either of the Blackwell seats (http://blackwellresearch.com/p_seats.htm) are nice for nose perching. I use the Flow saddle, and it's a *huge* improvement over my old Arione Tri2. Apparently the Adamo is good too, but I haven't tried it.

None of the big-brand saddles (Fizik, Selle, etc) have enough nose padding if you're actually sitting on the nose.

It's all the way forward. By sitting on the nose, I can get further forward. This opens my hip angle and transfers more of my weight to the bars. This is a fairly common position.

What do you mean by "all the way forward?" Are you racing under UCI rules or just unwilling to buy another seatpost?

I am actually curious about this also. So, asqelle, what seatpost would help to accomodate a more foreward position?

I am actually curious about this also. So, asqelle, what seatpost would help to accomodate a more foreward position?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=forward+seatpost&btnG=Google+Search

When you're leaning forward it hurts more to NOT sit on the nose, think about it. Doesn't matter what seatpost or the UCI legality.

I am actually curious about this also. So, asqelle, what seatpost would help to accomodate a more foreward position?

Profile FastForward

Here I am on mine. I'm quite a bit forward in the saddle, but not as extreme as I could be. The saddle nose is about 1.5cm behind the BB spindle, and it's all the way forward on the rails. I'm just right at "nuts off the front." This is a very comfortable position for me.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4143/dsc7919mu3.jpg

Thanks, UT. I'd rather find a saddle that works as even if I buy another bike frame (I have a Cervelo that won't accommodate forward bent seat posts), normal seats don't allow crouching like good TT seats, which are meant to be ridden nuts off the front.

I'm very curious about the Adamo.

The last few days have been strange. I've picked up my power and speed immensely after a much needed recovery week but now I feel like I've spent the last few days in a Turkish prison or a Republican bathroom. I need a new seat.

When you're leaning forward it hurts more to NOT sit on the nose, think about it. Doesn't matter what seatpost or the UCI legality.

A) the basic premise of TT positioning is to keep your normal road position and rotate it about the bottom bracket to move the hips forward and the shoulders down. If done corerctly, there is no reason position on the saddle should change (though the saddle would be angled down more than on a road bike).

B) I don't have to think about it. I've done it. It went something like this. I'm riding along. I think, "Ow, I'm sitting on the nose of my saddle." I move saddle forward. I think, "That feels a little better."

Are you female?

A) the basic premise of TT positioning is to keep your normal road position and rotate it about the bottom bracket to move the hips forward and the shoulders down. If done corerctly, there is no reason position on the saddle should change (though the saddle would be angled down more than on a road bike).

The only problem is that saddles were designed with gravity in mind. As you rotate the entire position forward/down, the saddle ceases to work properly. Many TT positions are rotating the rider 7 degrees or more, and that's a lot of change in saddle tilt. Your sit-bones have a femur beneath them that isn't as much in the way with a shallower seat tube angle.

I tried to work off the "rotate everything" logic, and was having a very tough time getting comfortable. I rotate all the points (elbows, shoulders, hips, etc.) around the BB spindle, but the saddle is staying flat -- I just ride on a different part of it now.

Are you female?

This is an interesting point. My guess is that you're eluding to the average female preference for slightly nose-down saddles?

This is an interesting point. My guess is that you're eluding to the average female preference for slightly nose-down saddles?

I think he's referring to the fact that females sitting on the back part of a standard seat, and rotating forward in it to attain a good aero position, aren't likely to heavily increase pressure on their scrota.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4143/dsc7919mu3.jpg

Killer form!!!

The Selle SMP Strike is probably the best at not crunching the perineum. Koobi's aren't bad either. Best solution though is to have a set up that let's you sit as normally as possible on the saddle you use on your road bike (IE supported by your sit bones).

Microtrauma to your perenium?

I'd be more concerned about the mzximum ball breaking that goes on here.

The Selle SMP Strike is probably the best at not crunching the perineum. Koobi's aren't bad either. Best solution though is to have a set up that let's you sit as normally as possible on the saddle you use on your road bike (IE supported by your sit bones).

Hmmm. If I ever have a reason to dislike the Blackwell (which I don't), I may give that one a try.

I want to clarify, using a foward facing seatpost and a saddle that really far foward is only costing you power. Its creating a greater hip angle and not letting you maximize the use of your glutes.

The reason you see a lot of foward facing seatposts on TT bikes is for triathletes, it helps them save the muscles they need for the run, by using other ones you dont need as much for running.

Look at a lot of pro bikes, a lot of times they actuatly run more set back then their road bike, Lance, Millar, Ballan all are examples of this.

I want to clarify, using a foward facing seatpost and a saddle that really far foward is only costing you power. Its creating a greater hip angle and not letting you maximize the use of your glutes.

The reason you see a lot of foward facing seatposts on TT bikes is for triathletes, it helps them save the muscles they need for the run, by using other ones you dont need as much for running.

Look at a lot of pro bikes, a lot of times they actuatly run more set back then their road bike, Lance, Millar, Ballan all are examples of this.

If I come back at all, my legs fall asleep (they're on the fence as it is). This hip angle is slightly tighter than my road racing angle in the drops. Of course, I'm using the forward post on a road bike -- on a proper (steep) TT bike, I would not use one.

Killer form!!!

Thanks! I got the free intarweb BF fit :) It really has transformed my TT though. I went up almost 1mph just from a few position changes -- and the stretching to support them. I can get my forehead to my locked knees now -- this flexibility is really helping.

I want to clarify, using a foward facing seatpost and a saddle that really far foward is only costing you power. Its creating a greater hip angle and not letting you maximize the use of your glutes.

The reason you see a lot of foward facing seatposts on TT bikes is for triathletes, it helps them save the muscles they need for the run, by using other ones you dont need as much for running.

Look at a lot of pro bikes, a lot of times they actuatly run more set back then their road bike, Lance, Millar, Ballan all are examples of this.

No. You run the saddle at 5cm behind the BB if you're under UCI requirements. Why? It allows you to rotate the position forward and DROP your front end = more aero. I challenge you to find a pro bike with a saddle farther back than their road bike, pictures please, don't just drop names. You won't. If you do, it's soley because they sit on the nose of the saddle because it's more comfortable to your twins.

Thanks! I got the free intarweb BF fit :) It really has transformed my TT though. I went up almost 1mph just from a few position changes -- and the stretching to support them. I can get my forehead to my locked knees now -- this flexibility is really helping.

Stretching is muy good. It's amazing how much minor changes can affect your time. I dropped 20s off the South MoPac course with a ~15W drop in power just by dropping the front end with a -35 degree stem.

No. You run the saddle at 5cm behind the BB if you're under UCI requirements. Why? It allows you to rotate the position forward and DROP your front end = more aero. I challenge you to find a pro bike with a saddle farther back than their road bike, pictures please, don't just drop names. You won't. If you do, it's soley because they sit on the nose of the saddle because it's more comfortable to your twins.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/tech/?id=/tech/2006/features/tour_bikes8

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=davidmillar_scottcr1plasmatt

also I think Johan mentions it in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt1pTFDdrv8

Yeah, but find a picture of them riding it. They're sitting on the nose even still.

I want to clarify, using a foward facing seatpost and a saddle that really far foward is only costing you power. Its creating a greater hip angle and not letting you maximize the use of your glutes.

The reason you see a lot of foward facing seatposts on TT bikes is for triathletes, it helps them save the muscles they need for the run, by using other ones you dont need as much for running.

Look at a lot of pro bikes, a lot of times they actuatly run more set back then their road bike, Lance, Millar, Ballan all are examples of this.

You're not very correct here. I was going to dig around and disprove this, this is not what the studies on the subject suggest, but heck the burden is on you to prove it and the search might be informative not only for you but for everyone, maybe even me. It's been a couple months since I read up here, I admit.

* Re: using pictures of pros to validate one's claim UCI riders are not optimized for speed. They are optimized to be fast while staying within the rules. Big difference. Lance could never bend at the waist.

* Re: hip angle Think about it: more upright road racers train their muscles with a large hip angle. They are strongest this way. If you tip the pelvis forward it closes that angle. How do you add power? Answer: Increase the hip angle by moving forward.

You're not very correct here. I was going to dig around and disprove this, this is not what the studies on the subject suggest, but heck the burden is on you to prove it and the search might be informative not only for you but for everyone, maybe even me. It's been a couple months since I read up here, I admit.

* Re: using pictures of pros to validate one's claim UCI riders are not optimized for speed. They are optimized to be fast while staying within the rules. Big difference. Lance could never bend at the waist.

* Re: hip angle Think about it: more upright road racers train their muscles with a large hip angle. They are strongest this way. If you tip the pelvis forward it closes that angle. How do you add power? Answer: Increase the hip angle by moving forward.

Youve got this second part backward, roatating your hips foward or moving foward on the saddle (as you put it) will decrease your hip angle thus robbing you of power.

Youve got this second part backward, roatating your hips foward or moving foward on the saddle (as you put it) will decrease your hip angle thus robbing you of power.

* Imagine a line from the hip to the foot at the bottom of the down stroke.
* Now imagine a line from the hip to the center of the spine

The angle this creates is what people generally call the hip angle.

* Now imagine the seat sliding backward. Touch your hands together by the fingertips, palms inward, in front of your nose, one hand pointing down the other pointing up. Now "slide back your seat" and move your hands away from you by extending your arms. Your hip angle *decreases*.

* Now slide your "seat" forward. Your hip angle increases. (http://www.cervelo.com/content.aspx?m=Engineering&i=TriBikeFit)

By all means, please look up the studies and read up before making another post!