Foo - Computer upgrade time, or "Why I think I'll stick with bike upgrades instead"

So a funny thing happens any time my good friend and coworker Ryan decides that he's going to upgrade his computer... it instantly makes me think that it's time to upgrade mine. This has been a trandition since our early years in college when he'd buy the top of the line gear, I'd wait 2 months and buy the next newest cheaper than he bought his stuff for. And around and around we would go.

Fast-forward a few years and I've realized that the last performance upgrade I made on my machine was over 3 years ago, and that was an already couple year old model video card! This realization comes of course, right as Ryan tells me he's upgrading to new gear. So back to my old stomping grounds of HardOCP.com and other tech-minded geek websites I went to read up on all I had missed since leaving the upper-end of computer hardware for cycling several years ago.

Wow have things changed. I knew that dual-core AMD's were out, I knew PCI-E had taken over the realm of video cards, and DDR now had numbers after it. Well, I know it in passing, but not in detail of what all was out there. And let me tell you, it's mind boggling!

So now I'm in the position of either:

A) Spending just enough to get a very solid and worth while upgrade from my current system (specs to be listed below), but have to worry about not having too much head-room for future performance needs.

B) Splurging on a few things while keeping the budget reasonable and sane. Still far surpassing what I'm running on now, which has finally started to show its age on a few new computer games I have.

C) Go all out, drain what extra funds I have laying around and then some and build a rock solid performing machine that will likely not need any additional upgrades for another couple of years.

Current machine specs (for those other geeks out there):

AMD XP 2600+ (Barton Core) OC'ed @ 2.0Ghz (2800+ speed)
1 GIG DDR 3200 (512 x2)
ATI 9800 Pro 128mb
EPoX EP-8RDA+ nForce2 Ultra 400
120GB WD HDD & 250GB WD HDD
DVD-RW & CD-RW
420W Antec PSU
Creative Audigy 2 Audio

Current Plans(ish) for the Upgrade:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (Brisbane Core)
2 GIG DDR2 6400 (1GIG x2)
nVidia 6800GT or GTS or 8800GTS 320mb (price $100 - $300!)
nVidia nForce 570 or 590 board??
etc.

D) Buy an Apple. Use it happily for years to come without worrying about upgrading.

Wow have things changed. I knew that dual-core AMD's were out, <snip> it's mind boggling!

<snip>

solid performing machine that will likely not need any additional upgrades for another couple of years.

Current machine specs (for those other geeks out there):

AMD XP 2600+ (Barton Core) OC'ed @ 2.0Ghz (2800+ speed)
1 GIG DDR 3200 (512 x2)
ATI 9800 Pro 128mb
EPoX EP-8RDA+ nForce2 Ultra 400
120GB WD HDD & 250GB WD HDD
DVD-RW & CD-RW
420W Antec PSU
Creative Audigy 2 Audio

Current Plans(ish) for the Upgrade:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (Brisbane Core)
2 GIG DDR2 6400 (1GIG x2)
nVidia 6800GT or GTS or 8800GTS 320mb (price $100 - $300!)
nVidia nForce 570 or 590 board??
etc.

So, you know the quad cores have been announced ..

For what I use mine for, and keeping in mind I have (had, sort of) 866 MHz machines with maxed out RAMs of half a gig each, a simple Dual Core Gateway with 2 Gigs of RAM was just fine when I finally got tired of having to reload XP (too much porn surfing, I think). I just upgraded a few weeks ago .. the best part for me was the 19" LCD screen and I got a huge HDD to add to the one I already have.

But I run PhotoShop & Illustrator .. and I surf Foo and other such BS sites. That's it. I don't do video beyond watching the torrents I steal (borrow, really).

Doesn't Campagnolo make computer parts?

Doesn't Campagnolo make computer parts?

No, you are thinking of Cateye, not Campagnolo.

The question at the end of the day is what the various upgrades will really do for you. Boosting RAM, processor speed, etc only really helps if you're already pretty much fully utilizing those resources and IO bottlenecks such as your HD aren't what's holding you back (as is the case with most people).

I'd stick to bike upgrades. Much more satisfying.

Whoa! That's an early upgrade! I generally cycle my hardware in decade cycles, and only upgrade if I absolutely have to... How much you want for the 9800? ;)

I just bought the parts for a new computer this week. It's been 5 years since my last build.

Old:
AMD Athlon XP2000+
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
1 gig of ram
80 gig HD

New:
AMD Athlon X2 6000+
GeForce 8800GTS x2 (yes, i'm going with SLI)
2 gigs of ram
nForce 570 motherboard
500 gig HD
Windows Vista

I was going to do this earlier in the year but triathlons and training were getting in the way. I've had the $$$ for it since January but finally got around to buying the stuff this month. :D Everything should be here by friday so i can build it over the weekend.

Old computer will be relegated to general websurfing and crunching data for Climate Prediction, Folding@home, and/or Einstein@home along with playing older games that won't work with Vista.

For upgrading your videocard, if you game at all, don't go with anything less than a 8800GTS card. $300 has kinda been the sweetspot for videocards. Anything less than an 8800GTS will just make you wish for an upgrade in afew years.

And yes, i too have realized that building a bicycle is alot easier. :lol: :(

Edit: I'll probably end up picking up another monitor (for dual screen Supreme Commander goodness) just for chits and giggles. Another 2 gigs of ram will also end up in my computer by the end of the year hopefully. Then i'll be set for another 5 years. :D

wolfbrother - I am programmer. Thus I use a PC.

FrankBattle - yeah, I know quad is around the corner. I could wait, but I'm not going to be buying a quad any time soon at the prices they'll want for them. Even if they are half of what Intel's quad cores are priced at.

KingTermite - think I should put a "Powered by Campagnolo" decal on the case? Hell, I still have my "Thunderbird" case sticker on that case to tell you how long I've been using it! Still one of the best though (if not a tad heavy!)

banerjek - I am planning on picking up a 250GB SATA 3.0 Gb/s hard drive for my primary drive. A 400GB ATA133 drive is still for data though. It's brand new, unused spare so I'd best get some use out of it I suppose. I do a fair bit of processor / RAM intensive programming along with HDD intensive database stuff.

lyeinyoureye - :lol:, if I went back another page or two in my Newegg purchase history I'm sure I'd see many 2-3 month upgrade cycles. Though I usually managed to sell the current gear for what was the current going price and upgrade for very little additional cost. This was back when processors were going from 550 to 800mhz to 1.0 to 1.2 to 1.4Ghz and beyond in a short time span. ;) As far as the 9800 goes, it'll probably go along with the rest of the parts I'm taking out into a seperate case and be sold complete. Doubt parting it out would get me much more for the additional work involved.

Psydotek - Very very nice system you got yourself there. A pair of 8800's in SLI has to be some sort of sweet. I've read that currently there isn't much of a performance hit going down to 8x PCI-E on the 570 SLI boards when running the dual cards over the dual 16x on the 590's. Any thoughts on this? I could save myself about $50 by going with a nforce 570 board and not sure how far down the road I'd even consider SLI (esp if I go with an 8800 of any flavor). Which board did you buy and how has your experience with it been?

My friend got his new machine up and running today and tested out Bioshock on it this morning. His is running the 4000+ chip on an older nForce4 board and a 8600GT vid card. This is pretty much what my plan A would encompass. Of course I'd have to do something a *little* better. ;)

Wow, everyone but Jsharr gets a personal reply. I think you should get a Commodore 64.

If you need something newer to do whatever you need to do, then upgrade. If you don't need something newer, then don't upgrade.

Or is that too simple? :)

jsharr - sorry mate, guess I should have said jsharr / KT as you were the one who first suggested the Campy parts. ;)

SonataInFSharp - of course that's too simple! Fact of the matter is that I'm going to be going in for a second round of surgery soon which is going to keep me off the bike for 3-4 weeks and would like to have a boolstered up system to play some games on while I'm healing up. There's only so much laying on the couch I can handle. Mind goes numb after a while, esp with the pain meds in me.

I went with a Gigabyte motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128014

I was a big fan of Soyo motherboards in the past but they don't make them for the new CPUs... I was going to switch to EPoX boards since they've had a good reputation but they were sold out on newegg. So Gigabyte was my next choice. I hope it wasn't a mistake going with the 570 chipset instead of the 590 (about $70-80 more but with the total cost so far, $80 is pretty negligible) since i already made a mistake of ordering the 8600 videocards and returned them yesterday and went with the 8800GTS instead.

I just hate doing motherboard swaps, they're the most PITA thing to upgrade on a computer since everything else is hooked up to it. As long as the mobo lasts 5 years i'll be good. :lol:

Psydotek - I'm a big fan of Gigabyte boards as well, and have run Soyos in the past (that's a name I haven't heard in a while) and of course I'm running Epox right now. My coworker's new board is the Gigabyte nForce4 SLI board and seems to be running things very nicely thus far. Just hard to buy a previous gen chipset when the current gen has been out for what a year now?

I hear you with Mobo upgrades, I've waited long enough that I've now skipped a complete socket type (939?) and AGP has gone the way of the Dodo along with standard DDR. $80 isn't much when you're buying a pair of 8800GTS's, but when that could be a new 250GB HDD or most of the price of a new PSU it means a fair bit. All this started with a price after rebates of like $350 for the upgrade. At the high end I'm looking north of double that. How quickly it adds up!

Adds up waaaay too fast. :lol: Even more than bicycles. :) But i usually don't get the upgrade bug every 6 months. At the most it'll be more ram and a second HD. I also do the "if it breaks, upgrade" thing. On my old computer i went through 3 DVD drives and 1 power supply which isn't too bad.

Yeah, keeping up with all the RAM changes in the past year is quite significant.

It's not any new specs that came out, just that the average user now has the information resources to learn how to wring that last bit of power out of their systems. Gone are the days you buy three DDR levels higher "just in case X cpu comes out".....because now sockets change just as fast....so buy the best ram you can.

I'd go with a nvidia 7900 or an 8800 myself....a 6xxx series is bottom bucket for many of today's games, if you are gaming (only reason I see for dropping coin on a mid to high end 3d accelerator and not on a Fire or Quadro).

when in doubt, just hit up sharkyextreme and look at his build guides...he has a few different price points he goes from, and the builds are pretty solid.

Ok, plan C it is!

Build Specs planned are as follows:

Antec 1040 case (Current Part)
Antec TruePower 650W Power Supply (SLI certified)
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe nForce 570 SLI MCP motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane (2.1Ghz) - easily OC'ed to 2.5Ghz on stock cooling
OCZ Platinum DDR2 800 (PC6400)
EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320mb
Western Digital 250GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
Western Digital 400GB 7200RPM ATA133 (Current Part)
DVD-RW Drive (Current Part)
CD-RW Drive (Current Part)

Selling: Old Laptop, Old Computer Parts, plus a little extra. Should come out with a machine I shouldn't need to touch for another 2-3 years.

Just curious why AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane? Intels Core2 Duo outperform it easily.

$65 vs $120+? I can OC the 4000+ from 2.1 to 2.8Ghz for a chip performing at well over double its cost. :)

AMD 4000+ @ 2.1: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103774 ($65.99)

Intel C2D @ 2.0: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014 ($125.99)

The Intel OC's quite well, but so does the AMD, and for half the cost. For the difference in cost I can pick up a SATA hard drive. :) I've been an AMD guy for desktops since the Athlon 1.0 Ghz days and before. At the high end Intel is killing AMD, but at the middle of the performance line-up the cost to performance ratio still puts a new AMD in my machine. (As I type on my Intel Centrino Duo laptop)

Ok, plan C it is!

Build Specs planned are as follows:

Antec 1040 case (Current Part)
Antec TruePower 650W Power Supply (SLI certified)
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe nForce 570 SLI MCP motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane (2.1Ghz) - easily OC'ed to 2.5Ghz on stock cooling
OCZ Platinum DDR2 800 (PC6400)
EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320mb
Western Digital 250GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
Western Digital 400GB 7200RPM ATA133 (Current Part)
DVD-RW Drive (Current Part)
CD-RW Drive (Current Part)

Selling: Old Laptop, Old Computer Parts, plus a little extra. Should come out with a machine I shouldn't need to touch for another 2-3 years.

That's a beefy power supply. Good call on the Western Digitals. These drives are solid. I spend the extra $10 went I got mine to get the RE's. Performance is the same, but they're supposed to be even more reliable, plus they run cooler and quieter because of their better motors and bearings. Your graphics card scares me.

I'm guessing with all this gear you do a little gaming? Get a wide screen. It's nice.

$65 vs $120+? I can OC the 4000+ from 2.1 to 2.8Ghz for a chip performing at well over double its cost. :)

AMD 4000+ @ 2.1: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103774 ($65.99)

Intel C2D @ 2.0: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014 ($125.99)

The Intel OC's quite well, but so does the AMD, and for half the cost. For the difference in cost I can pick up a SATA hard drive. :) I've been an AMD guy for desktops since the Athlon 1.0 Ghz days and before. At the high end Intel is killing AMD, but at the middle of the performance line-up the cost to performance ratio still puts a new AMD in my machine. (As I type on my Intel Centrino Duo laptop)

I don't think you will get the same performance even with overclock. Personally if I was building a bang for the buck system I would have gotten E6600 and overclocked it get same performance as Extreme. *shrug

the great [VON] Cuda?? It ... can't be? Sorry I'm a [H]-goer too

BTW don't get the crappy Nforce board. Get a 965P chipset if you want cheap. You can get an abit AB9 QuadGT for $120 now and it's a damn solid board. DO IT.

oh wait... you're going AMD. I thought they were out of business? Sorry I need to go to bed.

Zinn, sorry, not the same. I'm cuda2k over there as well. Haven't haunted the forums in a long while. AMD is far from dead. Down, but certainly not out. I haven't bought anything yet... and if you want to donate to the "get cuda2k on an Intel chip fund" you can paypal me your donations. :p

you can have all the change in my console next time we see each other cuda.

Ok, plan C it is!

Build Specs planned are as follows:

Antec 1040 case (Current Part)
Antec TruePower 650W Power Supply (SLI certified)
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe nForce 570 SLI MCP motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane (2.1Ghz) - easily OC'ed to 2.5Ghz on stock cooling
OCZ Platinum DDR2 800 (PC6400)
EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320mb
Western Digital 250GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
Western Digital 400GB 7200RPM ATA133 (Current Part)
DVD-RW Drive (Current Part)
CD-RW Drive (Current Part)

Selling: Old Laptop, Old Computer Parts, plus a little extra. Should come out with a machine I shouldn't need to touch for another 2-3 years.

Same videocard(s) that i just bought. :) Which version did you get though, the regular or overclocked card? I ended up going with the factory overclocked one (with 575mhz? instead of 500mhz) since it was only $10 more. For my power supply i picked up a PC Power & Cooling 750w PSU. Then 2 gigs of Crucial DDR2 800, and a Creative Labs Xi-Fi soundcard (i was never a big fan of onboard mobo sound).

Now i'm just hoping i didnt f*** anything up last night while i was assembling afew things... I put in the PSU/drives/mobo just to get things started and noticied some of the capacitors on the motherboard next to the CPU socket were bent a bit (probably from shipping since the manual and cables do sit on top in the box). So i reached down and gave one a little nudge away from the CPU socket and heard a little pop. ****! I checked the bottom of the board and the soldered joint looks fine but i dunno... While i've got all the know-how and can build a computer in my sleep, i ALWAYS have the worst luck no matter how careful i am. :( The bad thing is i have to wait until tomorrow to see if it's going to work or not (i can't do it today because the remainder of the parts get delivered today and i'm not going to be home which means i've gotta run to UPS to pick them up in the evening and won't have time after that).

I've had to deal with a scratched motherboard and my share of DOA parts and it's never fun having to run back to the store or do an RMA when you're anxiously awaiting the completion of the computer. :lol: :(

Dammit, i'm rambling again... (a sign that i'm stressing out over my computer build)

Cuda,
I got a new box a few months ago. I got a 8800 320meg card as well.
It's good, but the 8800 is a real ram sucker. If there is any way you can swing it, get the next step up.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143081

My only thought on the AMD versus Intel situation is how far will the company go with that particular socket? I picked intel largely because I got the impression that the intel chips would be a bit faster putting off the day when I had to get a new motherboard a little longer. I am not sure there was all that much validity to that thought, but what the heck.

The AM2 socket is fairly new. But you never know what technology changes are going to occur in the next 2-3 years. Heck, I'm running a Socket A motherboard right now, and know that there has been at least one, I think 2 sockets between then and this new(est) AM2.

I now have my old laptop up on Craigs List and already have two emails on it (and both actually sound legit!), so hopefully I will have $250 towards the upgrade cost soon. :) :)

As far as the video card goes, I might drop back down to the 6800GTS for the time being. I'm not a huge gamer (any more) and with the new generation cards only a few months away I suspect the prices on the 8800's will fall considerably in the next 6-8 months. Perhaps I'll take that difference in price and go with a different chip / motherboard. Anyone want to give me a run down on the intel chipset options? Just out of curiosity...

Do you want a $100 or less mobo with a good rep?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128017


... or mine :D
I have the Asus p5N32-E SLI. I have to admit, I went overboard. But I plan on doing some upgrading, and if there's anything this can't do, I don't want to know about it :D

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131073


The various chipsets don't make much of difference on performance. With SLI, I think it's a choice between 775 and nForce 680. I don't have any complaints with my 680, and I have heard good things about the 775.

SonataInFSharp - of course that's too simple! Fact of the matter is that I'm going to be going in for a second round of surgery soon which is going to keep me off the bike for 3-4 weeks and would like to have a boolstered up system to play some games on while I'm healing up. There's only so much laying on the couch I can handle. Mind goes numb after a while, esp with the pain meds in me.
Then it sounds like you need an upgrade.

See, that WAS simple.

late - those are two of the boards on my "Intel" list. Although on opposite ends of the "crazy"-o-meter. So many choices...

You'll never guess where i'm posting from... :D

Yeah, it's built. Running Vista 64bit right now. And still working on getting all the drivers installed. This is the "so not fun" part...

I"ve heard plenty about the 64-bit drivers... or rather the lack there of. Good luck!

Yeah... I think i spent a good hour or two browsing the web for anything/everything i could find on 32 vs 64 bit. I'm planning on keeping the old computer operational though just in case. :)

I had an Intel built over Xmas. It was fun. I went with the 680i even though I didn't plan on overclocking it. I guess I went a little overboard on the mb given the rest are kind of slow (C2D6400, 7600GT).

At first it took me forever to get the MS WinXP to Vista "free" upgrade dvd; then an extra few months to get the 64b driver for my bike computer. All my other programs run fine on the 64b vista though; except the Cisco VPN client for work...

I guess yours is a strictly Windows machine since you're going with Creative?

My last desktop was a 400MHz Pentium II, originally built in mid- or late-1999. A few upgrades over the years (GeForce2MX400, 512MB of RAM), but I used it until last year, when I replaced it with a crappy Compaq laptop. Blech.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, when I got back from vacation. My sister claims that the computer I built for her "died", so she bought a new one. Bought a new hard drive and a USB card (onboard was fried), and I have myself a pretty *****in' computer. :)

2GHz (single core) Athlon 64, 1.5GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, GeForce 7600GS, old Pioneer DVD burner, etc. Put it in the old Antec case previously occupied by the PII. Currently running 64-bit Ubuntu Linux. Sweet. Crazy fast, too.

Yeah, this box is going to be Micro$oft box only, I've got a AMD Duron 800mhz sitting in the corner here at work waiting for me to take it home that I'd likely make into a Linux box if I ever get around to diving back into that world. My work is a M$ house, I do most of my programming in the windows enviroment, so no real need for me to Linux it up right now.

Have you looked at shuttles much at all.. They look hella cool and you can kustomize ir pretty rad..

Have you looked at shuttles much at all.. They look hella cool and you can kustomize ir pretty rad..

Your upgrade path is going to be limited. If you don't play games it would prob be fine.

I still want to build a shuttle toaster box for portable lan gaming.

Ahh, lan gaming. Be careful which one you buy. Many of the small cases have issues.

Your upgrade path is going to be limited. If you don't play games it would prob be fine.


True dat. I guess I am a non gamer and considering that my home laptop is a pentium 166Mhz I am aeons behind in processing power. Heck my cell phone has a processor that often runs at those speeds :o

My next upgrade is going to be to high capacity flash HD's once they get to the point where I can get a couple 500 gig at least, or a single terabyte drive based off of flash.

yeah, flash-drives rather than clunky mechanical HD improves speed many times faster than any other upgrade. :) Heck, just putting the swapfile on a flash-drive will significantly boost speed, even if you've got 2-4gb of RAM. And 4-8gb's enough to house the boot-partition and gives significant boosts in speed. Then your massive amounts of data can still reside on the HD.

Ok, well, I ordered. I decided I should stop being indecisive about the part choices and just take the plunge. Yes, I stayed with AMD. Yes I made a few trade offs. But as a few friends and coworkers pointed out I'm no longer the First-Person gamer that I once was and didn't need a machine aimed at the upper end for that. So here's what the new machine is going to hold:

Antec 1040 case (Current Part)
CoolMax 700W Power Supply (SLI certified)
ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe nForce 590 SLI MCP motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Brisbane (2.5Ghz) - easily OC'ed to 2.8-3.0Ghz on stock cooling
CORSAIR XMS2 DDR 800 (PC2 6400)
MSI GeForce 8600GTS
Western Digital 250GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
Western Digital 400GB 7200RPM ATA133 (Current Part)
DVD-RW Drive (Current Part)
CD-RW Drive (Current Part)

My next upgrade is going to be to high capacity flash HD's once they get to the point where I can get a couple 500 gig at least, or a single terabyte drive based off of flash.

They're avaliable now:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=636&name=Solid-State-Disks

...but they ain't cheap. And 64GB it's going to cost you $1300. Enough to build a decent computer.

They're avaliable now:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=636&name=Solid-State-Disks

...but they ain't cheap. And 64GB it's going to cost you $1300. Enough to build a decent computer.

Yeah, I knew about these, not big enough yet. I'm watching the technology, believe me!:D

Clearly you folks missed my earlier post...............

http://www.clustermonkey.net//content/view/211/1/

Watch out for some of the small cases if doing high performance stuff like LAN gaming. A friend of mine bought one, and it had really nasty intermittant problems due to heat issues. Eventually he got the money back, exchanged the faulty machine for a decent Antec case, and has pretty much not have a problem since.

One idea a friend does, as he can get very good corporate specials, is buy generic HP machines that offer what is needed, a decent CPU, and motherboard stats, then max out the RAM and add a good video card. Then, in 1 1/2 to two years, do the same thing again.

Case size is one thing I have in spades. I still have the old Antec SOHO 1040 case:

http://www.pcbuilderplus.com/images/Products/4704.gif