It's like how most drivers don't know what ABS really does and what its limitations are (same with 4WD, snow tires, etc). It's going to be really important to know what it does, because if it ever gets to that point, the situation will require maximum control of the vehicle. It'll help if you ever need to dodge one of those small-car morons, too.

That is why When I bought the Tahoe I went to a safe place and tested the stability control and ABS, and it works great so I make sure I don't put myself in a situation that I need it.

That is why When I bought the Tahoe I went to a safe place and tested the stability control and ABS, and it works great so I make sure I don't put myself in a situation that I need it.

The flaw with that reasoning is you cannot always control what situations you find yourself in when driving on public roads.

BTW While you may be the exception, I have found that drivers of large SUVs often drive much more aggressively than drivers of cars, particularly in poor weather. I frequently see them get into accidents. In fact the last car that hit me (at a stop light) was ironically a Chevy Tahoe. The driver, who was the Mayor of a small New Jersey town, tried to claim my car wasn't damaged. The NYPD even tried to claim my car wasn't damaged. I held my ground though which was fortunate because the repair bill was $900.

Also ABS and stability control are great but they cannot change the laws of physics. They work better on cars which already have good handling and short breaking distances.

Interesting article I read yesterday on The Oil Drum (http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3014#more)contends that Global Warming by consumption of oil based fuels is the least of our worries. The article feels that even if we burn all available oil it will run out before it could have that much effect on GW. Their concern is going to be the mess we make out of the environment when they have to start burning coal for electricity. I am beginning to wonder if the US Government is focusing on Global Warming as a way of a smoke screen to avoid having to publicly face Peak Oil. Both are very real issues. Global Warming is nothing new, from what I have read and conclude is that it is part of a cycle, are humans adding to or hastening it? Probably, we have managed to screw up quite few natural things with our heavy handedness on the environment. It is it a major issue? To some yes, but I honestly believe it will become less of an issue in the future when we have greater things to worry about, like enough to eat.

And as far as your SUV's are concerned...I hope they are comfortable to sleep in;):p

Aaron:)

Well my final thought is it is sad some people get so wrapped up in what people drive it's ridiculous as hell from the tree hugging winers to the morons that go out and vandalize SUVs. I remember the Hummer dealership that got torched, it is pretty pathetic and people need to get over it as we have bigger things to worry about besides what the hell some one drives. Face it SUV aren't going away so deal with it.

SUV aren't going away...

Yeah, they are. ;)

And don't call me a moron.

(edit -- never mind, I'd never bother vandalizing a Hummer dealership. I just chuckle to myself when I see them load up at the gas station with over a hundred bucks' worth of gas while I never spend more than 30.)

Well my final thought is it is sad some people get so wrapped up in what people drive it's ridiculous as hell from the tree hugging winers to the morons that go out and vandalize SUVs. I remember the Hummer dealership that got torched, it is pretty pathetic and people need to get over it as we have bigger things to worry about besides what the hell some one drives. Face it SUV aren't going away so deal with it.
It will go away along with a lot of other things when the cost of gas doubles and doubles again. Based on what I can find the cost of gas has basically doubled in the past 3 years. I am betting it will double again in less than 2 years this time.

Aaron:)

It will go away along with a lot of other things when the cost of gas doubles and doubles again. Based on what I can find the cost of gas has basically doubled in the past 3 years. I am betting it will double again in less than 2 years this time.

Aaron:)

You forgot the Hybrid factor as Chevy now has Hybrid Tahoe and this technology will likely spread throughout the Chevy line of trucks. The SUV will simply adapt but will never go away as there are people that want space and comfort and the utility to tow a 5000 LB trailer.

It will go away along with a lot of other things when the cost of gas doubles and doubles again. Based on what I can find the cost of gas has basically doubled in the past 3 years. I am betting it will double again in less than 2 years this time.

Aaron:)

Unfortunately this is probably conservative and also unfortunately it all translates ultimately to the cost of transportation which drives up the cost of everything. For those who can and do drive around in a vehicle whose size rivals the Exxon Valdez it is unlikely that the cost of groceries and utilities matters much. I doubt that any of them can tell you the price of eggs now much less a year ago. For those of us in the "low wealth" segment part of the population it is becoming a significant part of our budget. $10.00 gas is not going to bother the "tanker drivers" but it will severely affect the person who cleans the toilets at the service station.

$10.00 gas is not going to bother the "tanker drivers" but it will severely affect the person who cleans the toilets at the service station.

It will mean that a far larger number of people will buy locally produced goods, due to the lower effect fuel prices have on their final price. Once it becomes normal to buy locally produced goods, few things will be available for sale as non-local goods unless they're impossible, or completely uneconomical, to produce nearby. I think some things will jump in price much less than people think. For example, where I live the supermarkets sell "fresh" veggies, fruit, eggs, meat that have ridden a thousand miles in trucks. Local farmers sell the same goods in our farmers' market, having driven it in from 60 miles away. What is the premium in price for the local stuff? In many cases, zero.

Unfortunately this is probably conservative and also unfortunately it all translates ultimately to the cost of transportation which drives up the cost of everything. For those who can and do drive around in a vehicle whose size rivals the Exxon Valdez it is unlikely that the cost of groceries and utilities matters much. I doubt that any of them can tell you the price of eggs now much less a year ago. For those of us in the "low wealth" segment part of the population it is becoming a significant part of our budget. $10.00 gas is not going to bother the "tanker drivers" but it will severely affect the person who cleans the toilets at the service station.

I still think we will see a major reduction in the number of SUV's as fuel prices rise. Yes there will be some people that will be able to afford them. But many, many more that are currently driving them won't. I suspect that probably 90% of the SUV's on the road are financed in one way or another and as fuel prices rise they won't be able to maintain the payments on them as well as the fuel bill. We have a poster child at the company I work for, he has the latest and the greatest of everything, his kids attend a super duper private school, McMansion in the "right" part of town, golf club, etc, etc. Everything he owns is based on a monthly payment. He has no clue. I make about the same amount he does, I do the same job he does, and that is where the similarity stops. I own everything I have outright including my house. No monthly payments required. My house is 1/3rd the size of his. My truck is 11 years old and is in better shape than his 2 year old one.(I don't think he can afford the proper maintenance) If there is a down turn in the economy or fuel doubles in price he is going to be hurting and there are probably millions more like him in all segments of society. I have always lived below my means, even when I was only making minimum wage. I agree it is harder to live that way at the low end of the economic scale. Unfortunately those are the people that always bear the brunt of it when things go bad. Low paying jobs are usually the first to be cut. Which in our current economy will be the service sector. We have become a service based society which also lowers the wage base as well as the tax base, which means we won't be able to look to the government for help (not that I would anyway). It is a vicious circle and will continue as the economy spirals downward, fueled by the collapsing housing industry and rising fuel costs driving the costs of everything else upward. Changes will come from the local level, people working together to make things better for themselves and their neighbors, whether buying local, or just helping a neighbor.

People with the attitude of Specialized Fan don't get it, they may or they may not in the future, when mandates start cutting power usage, water usage and the like. They will be the ones sitting in the long lines at the gas stations that don't have fuel to sell at any price. They will be the ones crying to congress for relief, etc. BTW I don't think they will be getting it even at that point in time. Those of us that have learned to do with a bit less, are already shopping local and doing what can to conserve will be way ahead of the game. As an example; my area of the country is in a severe to extreme drought and it is showing up at the local farmers' market among other places. Water recreation at the big lakes has been severely curtailed (nothing like making a payment on a Jetski you can't use) In the local opinion board the bulk of the people are lambasting the local goverment for instituting water conservation measures. They claim all you have to do is drill a well for watering their precious grass, or just build a couple of desalination plants out at the coast and pump the water inland...like I said...No Clue! I already use less than half the average normal water bill for the authority I get my water from. They have trouble believing it and keep checking the meter to make sure we aren't cheating somehow.:p But that is the way I choose to live, and I live very comfortably and will for quite some time to come.

Aaron:)

Noobs.

Oh wait, I haven't been here long myself... ;)



Not a hunter myself, but imagine a movement in the hunting community of taking mountain bikes instead of trucks and ATVs. ...um, never mind; how would they carry the carcass(es) back home?

First of all, understand that I am no grand hunter myself. However, a lot of areas forbid motor vehicles outside of the parking areas. I have seen bicycles with trailers carrying decoys and stuff. I imagine that the ducks would be tossed in the trailer with the others.

Not all hunting is, the popular, big game hunting. A lot of it is just getting outside and if you get something for dinner, to justify spending the day in the woods to the wife, so much the better.

there are people that want space and comfort

I am glad that this time you had the good sense to not say safety. Most people seem to forget that one of the reasons that most SUVs are tested at trucks on the federal tests is that they can not meet automotive safety standards. I would like to see the law fixed so that once a vehicle is a truck, it is always a truck. Not a truck for the safety tests and then an auto for road taxes. Of course, I would also like to see the licensing standards changed so that a person driving a truck, of any size would be required to meet all commercial vehicle regulations; including advanced skills and knowledge tests along with the mandated physical examination and operational restrictions that are on all other trucks.

I agree that there is a place for trucks; however, there should not be a loophole to allow some trucks to bypass the restrictions placed on most other trucks.

I am glad that this time you had the good sense to not say safety. Most people seem to forget that one of the reasons that most SUVs are tested at trucks on the federal tests is that they can not meet automotive safety standards. I would like to see the law fixed so that once a vehicle is a truck, it is always a truck. Not a truck for the safety tests and then an auto for road taxes. Of course, I would also like to see the licensing standards changed so that a person driving a truck, of any size would be required to meet all commercial vehicle regulations; including advanced skills and knowledge tests along with the mandated physical examination and operational restrictions that are on all other trucks.

I agree that there is a place for trucks; however, there should not be a loophole to allow some trucks to bypass the restrictions placed on most other trucks.

Trucks hell...I would like to see that for ALL drivers! The US is sorely lacking in any sort of competency training or testing for drivers. I suspect if we were to go to say the Dutch system of licensing, over 1/3-1/2 of the drivers currently only the roads would fail the testing.

Aaron:)

Since I'm a SUV owner and owned several trucks, I personnally feel that commercial driver's licensing of all trucks would be a bureaucratic waste of time and money. What I would like to see is commercial licensing of drivers of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 lbs or more(motorhomes especially) and pickup trucks towing a trailer over 20 ft or 4000 lbs towing weight.

Around here, the SUVs are an issue all year. The motorhomes are a big problem during the summer tourist season. They're as big as buses and are usually driven by people who do not know how to properly handle them. In addition, the drivers tend to be quite elderly. Some are still good drivers but others do not have the vision or the reflexes they had when they were younger. With motorhomes, concerns about pollution and fuel economy are not nearly as serious as the safety issues.

Not a hunter myself, but imagine a movement in the hunting community of taking mountain bikes instead of trucks and ATVs. ...um, never mind; how would they carry the carcass(es) back home?

We do.

At least one member here, Pac-Mule, manufactures bicycle trailers which are specifically designed to haul deer/elk.

The timber companies here have pretty much gated most of their roads, due to vandalism/meth/whatever. If you have to drive in, you restrict your access greatly.

East Hill

We do.

At least one member here, Pac-Mule, manufactures bicycle trailers which are specifically designed to haul deer/elk.

Good lord... that's something for the small ring... ;)