Advocacy & Safety - Critical Mass "melee" in Minneapolis

http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html

Discuss. Or move. maybe both?

Sounds like two rogue a-holes ruined the ride for everyone else. Provoking police during any protest or activist activity is irresponsible and causes whoever you're trying to influence to no longer take you seriously. It's the difference between people thinking "I wonder what that's all about" and "Look at those ****ing punks causing trouble".

It is Mpls--- the scofflaws are living down their inferiority complex that they aren't riding in SF or NYC.

unfortunately the article is unclear on the reasons to what actually started it, so it is hard to base an informed opinion on what actually happened. it would be unfair to make any real assumptions at this point with out doing more research

It's the difference between people thinking "I wonder what that's all about" and "Look at those ****ing punks causing trouble".

Yeah but the difference between a regular critical mass and a bad one is only a matter of degree.

agreed.

I'm actually terribly impressed by that police department. In the article they recognize the fact that the people causing the problems probably were not affiliated with Critical Mass. They understand that the antagonistic riders came there deliberately to cause trouble, and they actually publicly agree with the purpose of Critical Mass. damn.

Yeah but the difference between a regular critical mass and a bad one is only a matter of degree.

Very true. That's why massers need to be even more respectful and responsible during a ride.

It is Mpls--- the scofflaws are living down their inferiority complex that they aren't riding in SF or NYC.

Ha!

I'm actually terribly impressed by that police department. In the article they recognize the fact that the people causing the problems probably were not affiliated with Critical Mass. They understand that the antagonistic riders came there deliberately to cause trouble, and they actually publicly agree with the purpose of Critical Mass. damn.

Read some other reports of the attack and you won't be so impressed. Try IndyMedia Twin Cities.

I'm actually terribly impressed by that police department. In the article they recognize the fact that the people causing the problems probably were not affiliated with Critical Mass. They understand that the antagonistic riders came there deliberately to cause trouble, and they actually publicly agree with the purpose of Critical Mass. damn.

+1

That caught me by surprise

http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html

Discuss. Or move. maybe both?

Im not sure what there is to discuss.
Dumbasses caused trouble, they went to jail.
It happens every hour of the day.

Read some other reports of the attack and you won't be so impressed. Try IndyMedia Twin Cities.

Indy media's account(when parsed for truth) seems to be pretty much the same. Cops arrested some people, called more cops, a few people were maced and tasered and a few others arrested. They don't mention any cops being surrounded but of course they never do.

Read some other reports of the attack and you won't be so impressed. Try IndyMedia Twin Cities.
It is worth noting that the source mentioned here isn't really straight journalism per se. It is a heavily biased report by a "writer" that doesn't even use very good grammar. Hardly a news source I'd put much stake in.

"We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she said. "We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke the officers."

Wow. That's pretty much awesome.

Some more news sources:
http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_243224625.html
http://www.wctrib.com/ap/index.cfm?page=view&id=D8RCOA7O0
http://www.twincities.com/ci_6774745?source=most_emailed

Indymedia has very one sided leftist views and their writers are anti police. Not exactly a credible news source. (neither is the telly...for the record...)

well my first observation about the op's article was that the writer only sources the police. not exactly balanced. probably what the reporter did was call the desk seargent, take a statement and base the article off that alone. hm.

keeping that in mind, please realize that no police officer is going to admit that they acted unprovoked if that were the case. so... the situation may be that there were a couple of 'unaffiliated a-holes' stirring up trouble, or it may be that some cop decided he was going to 'shake down an anti-rnc hippie.' we, frankly, don't know because only one side of the story is presented and the police would certainly not admit any malfeasance if it had occurred.

just sayin'.

to anybody who might think that anybody else "provoked" or "asked for it"... use of these weapons in a crowd control situation is abhorrent. tazers, particularly against nonthreatening people, are akin to torture devices. pepper spray causes panic, not control. the amount of pain from both is excruciating - this is me speaking from experience seeing and treating people who have been tazed (including follow up research) and having been peppersprayed more than once. some of those times, it's been topped off with a healthy dose of batons to the ribs and back.

i've seen cops get out of control. i've seen cops deliberately do things to cause a crowd situation to lose control.

they should be held accountable for this behavior, not people who find or place themselves - for whatever reason - in the way of it. people weild weapons against other people and it is legitimized by a badge that they wear.

that doesn't cut it for me.

nah man..theyre HEROES! Cops are our heroes!
lol

It is Mpls--- the scofflaws are living down their inferiority complex that they aren't riding in SF or NYC.

And I quote from your blog:

filtersweep said...
Thanks. I'd almost argue that it is nicer to bike in Saint Paul than Minneapolis. We also live in Mpls, and the Greenway and trails are amazing.

5/28/2005 3:04 AM



You lived in Minneapolis? Wow - I guess you dealt with your inferiority complex by moving to Norway.

to anybody who might think that anybody else "provoked" or "asked for it"... use of these weapons in a crowd control situation is abhorrent. tazers, particularly against nonthreatening people, are akin to torture devices. pepper spray causes panic, not control. the amount of pain from both is excruciating - this is me speaking from experience seeing and treating people who have been tazed (including follow up research) and having been peppersprayed more than once. some of those times, it's been topped off with a healthy dose of batons to the ribs and back.

i've seen cops get out of control. i've seen cops deliberately do things to cause a crowd situation to lose control.

they should be held accountable for this behavior, not people who find or place themselves - for whatever reason - in the way of it. people weild weapons against other people and it is legitimized by a badge that they wear.

that doesn't cut it for me.

lets not forget the U lock wielding, car hitting CM'ers who go out of their way to disobey traffic laws, signs, and plug up intersections soother riders can go thru on red lights. Then when they get called on it by the police, they react and do stupid things. You need to remember that the Police will react (as they are trained to do) with one force level Higher than what they are facing. Tazers and Pepper spray are perfectly acceptable in dealing with the punks actions at CM.

"Somebody was driving straight at cars," said Deputy Chief Allen.

How and why would you ride straight at cars? This sounds like bull**** to me

well, i found another article from the minneapolis 'city pages' (which claims to be a 'sister paper' of the village voice). this reporter actually went and interviewed not only the cyclists but residents in the neighbourhood where the incident took place. actual reporting!

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2007/08/mpls_police_adm.php

according to this article, local residents and cm cyclists are saying an unmarked police car deliberately crashed into some cyclists and then started "beating people indiscriminately" and it was "a 100 percent set-up". hm.

Thuggish behavior at a CM ride. Whodathunkit?:rolleyes:

CM may have been started as an outlet for bicycle rights. Now it is just a bunch of thugs who protest for the fun of protesting. There is nothing good that comes out of it. The incident in Chicago and now in Minneapolis should be good indicators. They do nothing for bicycling except to hurt it. They advertise their rides by spray-painting graffiti on our trails here in Minneapolis and then antagonize motorists and policeman in their organized riots. They make such a bad name for bicycling that their stated purpose is suspect. They should stop and desist!
Hjeand

nah man..theyre HEROES! Cops are our heroes!
lol

People need to discriminate between police behavior during crowd-control situations and police work in general. I've been involved in a couple of situations where I was deeply grateful for police intervention...but I've also been harassed and hassled by cops. But they have a sh*t job, and I'm generally glad that they are doing it.

Like most everything, The Police are not some abstract entity, but a collection of people-- some good, some bad. Vilifying them as a whole is decidedly ignorant. Their job is to defend the status quo, and the apparent point of CM is to upset it. Even if a CM stays "within the law," they're still being ******** obnoxious.

to anybody who might think that anybody else "provoked" or "asked for it"... use of these weapons in a crowd control situation is abhorrent. tazers, particularly against nonthreatening people, are akin to torture devices. pepper spray causes panic, not control. the amount of pain from both is excruciating - this is me speaking from experience seeing and treating people who have been tazed (including follow up research) and having been peppersprayed more than once. some of those times, it's been topped off with a healthy dose of batons to the ribs and back.

i've seen cops get out of control. i've seen cops deliberately do things to cause a crowd situation to lose control.

they should be held accountable for this behavior, not people who find or place themselves - for whatever reason - in the way of it. people weild weapons against other people and it is legitimized by a badge that they wear.

that doesn't cut it for me.

Ok, you are experienced. Big whoop. What do you suggest the cops do when people act like total asses and risk the "movement" for others?

Now it is just a bunch of thugs who protest for the fun of protesting.


Actually, no. I was present last evening. The majority of riders are not thugs - myself included. Lots of ordinary people, older people, families and kids. We disobey traffic laws in CM. The same traffic laws, that when broken by motorists, put my life in danger on a daily basis. Traffic violations do not warrant violent intervention. Neither do supposed 'anarchists' lurking in the depths of the crowd. If anyone escalated the situation it was the police. Their actions antagonized the crowd. Perhaps, someone could defend this as a reputable action on part of the authority.

It is certainly frustrating reading the responses based on those stories by media outlets. The notion that anyone except those few (very few) who resisted arrest or confronted the MPD 'got what they deserved' is particularly troubling. Are you opposed to the founding principles of this country or are you simply ignorant of them?

We disobey traffic laws in CM. The same traffic laws, that when broken by motorists, put my life in danger on a daily basis. Traffic violations do not warrant violent intervention.

You and the rest of CM zealots put my life in danger by reinforcing the image of cyclists as irresponsible jerks who don't obey traffic laws and consider themselves to be above the law. That attitude is frequently used as justification for the legislative marginalization of cyclists.

What do you suggest the cops do when people act like total asses and risk the "movement" for others?

Being an ass isn't against the law, last time I reviewed the books.

I could interpret 'risking the movement' in two ways. 1) if you are talking about bad publicity for the pro-bike movement then I will remind you this definitely isn't against the law. 2) if you mean risking the movement for other people on the street, I simply disagree. CMers put themselves in danger. The only time flesh ever stands a chance against the steel of an automobile is when there is 20 tons of it that sticks together. And even then, its by intimidation alone. CM would not stand a chance vs. an aggressive motorist who was willing to simply plow through the herd. I do not take seriously your implication that others are put at risk.

Certainly, disobeying traffic laws is against the law, but this is not a criminal act. It is a civil infraction. Certain traffic violations can warrant criminal charges, e.g. 100+ mph in MN. CM does not break these laws. I'm willing to be cited for the traffic laws I break during CM. I am not willing; however, to be tazered or maced.

You and the rest of CM zealots put my life in danger by reinforcing the image of cyclists as irresponsible jerks who don't obey traffic laws and consider themselves to be above the law. That attitude is frequently used as justification for the legislative marginalization of cyclists.

This is a baseless claim of causality. Ignorance and indifference on the part of motorists are the prime danger to your life.

How many CM bashers advocate 'taking the lane' ?
How many in states that require bikes to be far
right in traffic situations ?
My point being for every 'antagonistical' bicyclist there
is a 'good' one irritating people too.

This is a baseless claim of causality. Ignorance and indifference on the part of motorists are the prime danger to your life.

Oh yes, you have so much more evidence for this than my claim. Obey the law, and you are treated with respect by the municipality. Act like a jackass and deliberately break the law, and you are categorized as a nuisance. Most of you CMers like to believe that you're committing some Thoreau-esque act of Civil Disobedience...when in fact you are making it harder for cyclists everywhere. You aren't heroes, and you aren't doing anything constructive, or demonstrating a point. It's fashionable radicalism of the mildest sort, and it's pathetic.

Of all the places I've lived, it's not CM hysterics that get things done for cyclists' rights, it's steady, persistent effort by cycling clubs and community groups. It's not sexy, but it gets sh*t done. You guys undo in a day what it takes us months to achieve. Congrats. I guarantee that municipalities are going to start cracking down on bike rallies, citing the recent CM violence. It's going to make it harder on all of us...but y'all got to feel important for a couple of hours a month, hooray!

How many CM bashers advocate 'taking the lane' ?
How many in states that require bikes to be far
right in traffic situations ?
My point being for every 'antagonistical' bicyclist there
is a 'good' one irritating people too.

It's everyone's responsibility to be a responsible cyclist. Critical Mass encourages loutish behavior, and justifies it by inculcating the idea that all cyclists are being victimized.

You and the rest of CM zealots put my life in danger by reinforcing the image of cyclists as irresponsible jerks who don't obey traffic laws and consider themselves to be above the law. That attitude is frequently used as justification for the legislative marginalization of cyclists.
This is all a bunch of arm chair philosophizing.

A motorist, upon seeing Gordiep, could just as likely think "oh, oh better give that crazy more room, he could be one of those erratic CMers.”

The number of motorists that have even seen a CM is tiny. More people probably have seen the “Forty year old virgin” where cyclists are portrayed as goofs who cant get laid. Hopefully, it is not true that your sex life isn't all that it could be, because you are still riding the ol" two wheeler.

Can you actually imagine that a person would say that the reason that they hit a cyclist was because they had been inconvenienced by CM? Seems like an unjustified fear to me.

What do you mean by, “That attitude is frequently used as justification for the legislative marginalization of cyclists.” I know of no laws that are designed to negatively affect cycling, and where begun because of CM.

I guess that CM isn’t always pretty, but neither is change.

This is all a bunch of arm chair philosophizing.

A motorist, upon seeing Gordiep, could think "oh, oh better give that crazy more room, he could be one of those erratic CMers.”

The number of motorists that have even seen a CM is tiny. More people probably have seen the “Forty year old virgin” that portrays cyclists as goofs who cant get laid.

Can you actually imagine that a person would say that the reason that they hit a cyclist was because they had been inconvenienced by CM?

What do you mean by, “That attitude is frequently used as justification for the legislative marginalization of cyclists.”

I guess that CM isn’t always pretty, but neither is change.

You guys aren't changing anything, unless it's for the worse. And CMers are the most notorious smoke-blowers I know. Armchair philosophizing? As opposed to practical philosophy? Think carefully, then write.

I'm sure that most motorists haven't seen a CM, or know what it is. But they've probably heard about, or read about, or seen video of a bunch of rowdies on bikes blocking traffic and acting like *******. I never asserted that CM is the cause of motorist dislike, but it certainly doesn't help, does it? And when it blows up like in MN, plenty of people hear about it...then it becomes a legislative issue, and whatever petition legitimate cycling groups may be pushing is now considered in a different light because of a bunch of rowdies.

Can any of you defenders give me a single instance where CM actually did something for the cycling community, other than conveying to you some sense of power and right?

And why do people go to CM? Because they believe in cyclists' rights, and want to make a difference? Baloney. Most of the kids I know who attend do it because it's a social event where they get to act tough, and show off their gear, and maybe meet somebody or find a party or whatever. It's fashion and socializing, masquerading as a social movement. Your defense of it is as confused and disordered as the event itself-- self-righteousness cloaked in a victim's attitude and a coward's flouting of the law...as long as a bunch of similarly-minded cronies are around to prop him up.

Oh yes, you have so much more evidence for this than my claim.

Laughable. If you have access to journals (nearest public university?), initiate a db search of motorist psychology. Otherwise, I'm sure this key word ought to get you in the right direction on google. You will find ample discussion about what a 200HP metal cage does to the psyche. This ought to get you going on a body of literature that will keep you busy for months.


Obey the law, and you are treated with respect by the municipality.

Are you advocating the use of force as a response to civil infractions? Are you also telling me that you do not disobey laws? Searching similarly focussed research as that suggested above, you will find that you are in the *extreme minority.*


Act like a jackass and deliberately break the law, and you are categorized as a nuisance.

A categorization I'm very comfortable with.


Most of you CMers like to believe that you're committing some Thoreau-esque act of Civil Disobedience...when in fact you are making it harder for cyclists everywhere. You aren't heroes, and you aren't doing anything constructive, or demonstrating a point. It's fashionable radicalism of the mildest sort, and it's pathetic.

Thanks.


Congrats. I guarantee that municipalities are going to start cracking down on bike rallies, citing the recent CM violence. It's going to make it harder on all of us...but y'all got to feel important for a couple of hours a month, hooray!

Interesting premonition you have there. The last major MPD over reaction to CM in Minneapolis was a boon to bike awareness.

That's interesting of you, projecting your vision of my motivations like that. Maybe next time.

Laughable. If you have access to journals (nearest public university?), initiate a db search of motorist psychology. Otherwise, I'm sure this key word ought to get you in the right direction on google. You will find ample discussion about what a 200HP metal cage does to the psyche. This ought to get you going on a body of literature that will keep you busy for months.



Are you advocating the use of force as a response to civil infractions? Are you also telling me that you do not disobey laws? Searching similarly focussed research as that suggested above, you will find that you are in the *extreme minority.*



A categorization I'm very comfortable with.



Thanks.



Interesting premonition you have there. The last major MPD over reaction to CM in Minneapolis was a boon to bike awareness.

That's interesting of you, projecting your vision of my motivations like that. Maybe next time.


Pop psychology and glib responses. I'm sure that I could an equal number of studies indicating irrational behavior in crowds, especially those composed of individuals who perceive themselves to be struggling for a "just" cause. Yeah, you really got this one worked out.

To justify doing the wrong thing because you are a "minority" is cowardice. Cyclists are not some oppressed group, and identifying yourself as such is a grave dishonor to worthier causes. CMers need to get a grip on reality.

If you wanna let a group of idiots dictate how you live, go ahead-- but don't claim that you are doing me, or any other cyclist, a favor by doing so. From all the reading that I've done, legislation against bicycle usage has always been preceded by some notorious public disturbance.

Can any of you defenders give me a single instance where CM actually did something for the cycling community, other than conveying to you some sense of power and right?

I believe a confrontation with the MPD in 02 is recognized as the impetus for repealing mandatory bike registration in Minneapolis. Shortly afterward emerged the de facto sanctioning of CM by the MPD...


And why do people go to CM? Because they believe in cyclists' rights, and want to make a difference? Baloney. Most of the kids I know who attend do it because it's a social event where they get to act tough, and show off their gear, and maybe meet somebody or find a party or whatever. It's fashion and socializing, masquerading as a social movement. Your defense of it is as confused and disordered as the event itself-- self-righteousness cloaked in a victim's attitude and a coward's flouting of the law...as long as a bunch of similarly-minded cronies are around to prop him up.

Ahh yes, those guys with their young kids, the families, the 50+ers, and the hoards walmart-bike 'normal folks' were probably just out looking to score drugs and get laid. I know I was asked for weed and solicited for casual sex at least 6 times!! +1 for the caricatures

I believe a confrontation with the MPD in 02 is recognized as the impetus for repealing mandatory bike registration in Minneapolis. Shortly afterward emerged the de facto sanctioning of CM by the MPD...
Ahh yes, those guys with their young kids, the families, the 50+ers, and the hoards walmart-bike 'normal folks' were probably just out looking to score drugs and get laid. I know I was asked for weed and solicited for casual sex at least 6 times!! +1 for the caricatures



It's "recognized"? By whom? So-- the law just passed on its own, huh? Sprouted legs and walked through the legislature on its own two feet...without the efforts of committed cycling advocates, community groups, etc. shepherding it? Unlikely. You point me to some sources and I'm willing to read, but your "belief' doesn't convince me.

The only caricature is your description of my statement. I made a restricted statement governed by my own experience. You took it broadly and turned it into nonsense, because you have nothing else to offer. Like most CMers, you can't reasonably justify your activity, nor can you defend your position without resorting to sarcasm. I'm sure that the MN CM in question was populated mostly by "hordes" of over-50 'Roadmaster' pedaling non-cyclists; they must've heard about it over their CB radios. Not a hipster in sight...the two instigators were planted by the police force to bring down the CM political juggernaut down from the inside.

I'm sure that I could an equal number of studies indicating irrational behavior in crowds, especially those composed of individuals who perceive themselves to be struggling for a "just" cause. Yeah, you really got this one worked out.

You certainly could. But this would not change anything about my point or our discussion. I think I'll take peer-reviewed 'pop psychology' over your demonstrably false generalizations, prejudices, and anecdotal musings any day of the week.


To justify doing the wrong thing because you are a "minority" is cowardice. Cyclists are not some oppressed group, and identifying yourself as such is a grave dishonor to worthier causes. CMers need to get a grip on reality.

My memory is poor, you will have to remind me where I attempted to justify my behavior. My old age is getting to me, I don't even recall explaining why I participate! Silly me :p

You guys aren't changing anything, unless it's for the worse. And CMers are the most notorious smoke-blowers I know. Armchair philosophizing? As opposed to practical philosophy? Think carefully, then write.

Can any of you defenders give me a single instance where CM actually did something for the cycling community, other than conveying to you some sense of power and right?


More CM participants this year than last.

When I said , “armchair philosophizing”, I meant it as opposed to research and fact and demonstrating a logical relationship based on fact. It is an old term, from before the internet, when 17th century want to be scientists, would postulate the beginnings of the cosmos, without so much as looking through a telescope. Go ahead make some more unsubstantiated claims. You have not demonstrated a necessary connection between CM and anything significantly anti-bike. The American dream folks do more to negatively affect cycling. Those CMers are going to start voting eventially.

gordiep:

i've read all your arguments thus far and, while well-put, i think you start from the assumption that the problems at cm mn were initiated by cm-ers or individuals within the cm. that's not really proven.

again, i would like to reference you to the story from the mn 'city pages'. it's here:

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2007/08/mpls_police_adm.php

so far this is the only piece i have read where the writer actually talked to bystanders in the the neighbourhood and other cm-ers instead of just regurgitating the police press release. it's not very flattering to the cops and at least one person quoted in the article says the altercation was started when "an unmarked maroon police car sped ahead of the others and smashed purposefully into a cyclist". is this the real series of events? maybe. maybe not. but it certainly does cast some doubt on the 'official story'.

additionally i should point out that, although i've never lived there, minneapolis has had a long reputation of excessive police force bordering on brutality.

here's a great quote:

"Police will abuse their power....They feel themselves leashed. They want to be free to `thump,' free to handle *******s. When someone gives them lip, they want to be able to kick their ass[es], and when you don't let them, they feel shackled. I do not let them [the police officers] `handle' *******s."

that was said by a guy called tony bouza. he was the chief of police in minneapolis from 1980-88. he also called the mnpd a bunch of 'brutal thugs'. he's written a couple of good books on police misconduct over the last couple of years. scary and eye-opening stuff.

i think if you do even a little bit of research you will find that in jurisdictions across this continent, cops are more than willing to bend, sometimes to the point of pretzeling, the law in spirit and letter when it comes to dealing with any sort of protest activity. heck, just last month in quebec the surite de quebec (the provincial police force) actually planted agents provocateurs into the protest crowd.

so. does this mean that the cops ran over a cm-er in minneapolis? does it mean they planted an agent provocateur there? maybe not.

but it does mean that starting this debate from the premise that the police version of events is the true one is not necessarily valid. a little skepticism of the official story is probably due.

It's "recognized"? By whom? So-- the law just passed on its own, huh?
Sprouted legs and walked through the legislature on its own two feet...

I am very impressed by your abilities because, although I didn't write it, this is *exactly* what I insinuated. Well almost exactly. As I remember it, the discarded parchment lay in the dirty gutter. Miraculously, upon the completion of CM I think, the winds of change arrived, and that parchment roared into the sky. By action of the heavens, the rolled up bill began to rotate and thus generated lift. The prevailing current carried it far to the capital building, where the state legislators sat waiting. The legislators then demonstrated the most remarkable feat dexterity I have ever witnessed (Yes, I was there at the capital, who else could keep congress late?) in which everyone simultaneously signed the bill *while* the winds of change carried it to the governor's office.-


...without the efforts of committed cycling advocates, community groups, etc. shepherding it? Unlikely. You point me to some sources and I'm willing to read, but your "belief' doesn't convince me.

See unlike you, I never excluded anyone from furthering bike awareness. I have no problem acknowledging the contributions from all these groups of people. And I thank them for their efforts. I also acknowledge that the ridiculous seizure of unregistered bikes at CM also played an important role.

Nobody seems to have a sense of humor or irony in this forum, Terrence.

Personally, I love the Twin Cities and miss living there in many ways. If you re-read my post, it was referring to the people who were arrested. Minneapolis is an amazingly bike-friendly city (doubly so when you consider the climate) and requires no militant "advocacy."


And I quote from your blog:

filtersweep said...
Thanks. I'd almost argue that it is nicer to bike in Saint Paul than Minneapolis. We also live in Mpls, and the Greenway and trails are amazing.

5/28/2005 3:04 AM



You lived in Minneapolis? Wow - I guess you dealt with your inferiority complex by moving to Norway.

Oh yes, you have so much more evidence for this than my claim. Obey the law, and you are treated with respect by the municipality. Act like a jackass and deliberately break the law, and you are categorized as a nuisance. Most of you CMers like to believe that you're committing some Thoreau-esque act of Civil Disobedience...when in fact you are making it harder for cyclists everywhere. You aren't heroes, and you aren't doing anything constructive, or demonstrating a point. It's fashionable radicalism of the mildest sort, and it's pathetic.

Of all the places I've lived, it's not CM hysterics that get things done for cyclists' rights, it's steady, persistent effort by cycling clubs and community groups. It's not sexy, but it gets sh*t done. You guys undo in a day what it takes us months to achieve. Congrats. I guarantee that municipalities are going to start cracking down on bike rallies, citing the recent CM violence. It's going to make it harder on all of us...but y'all got to feel important for a couple of hours a month, hooray!

+ a billion.

Did the police overreact? Are there cops with a hair trigger just waiting for a little action? I'm sure there are. On the other hand, normally peaceful people can get a little crazy in mob situations. A cop has the right and responsibility to get and maintain control of a situation BEFORE it gets really out of hand and they don't always know when verbal taunts are going to escalate into physical attacks.

That being said, I would like someone associated with CM to explain to me how these monthly rides help promote bicycling as a legit alternative to the automobile?

My guess would be that it mostly pisses off drivers that get caught behind them for the period of time the ride lasts and that's about it. That's my opinion but I'm a reasonable enough guy and can often see where and when I'm wrong if someone with the opposite viewpoint is willing to calmly explain their position.

I live in Minneapolis and I commute via bike to work. I bike elsewhere too and take public transportation if for whatever reason I feel that's a better alternative than biking.

My main concern about biking to work and trying to convince others to do the same is safety. I've had one collision with a motorist who turned left in front of me while I was in a bike lane and I've had several close calls. I've also had motorists pass by me very closely because they misjudged my speed and had to move back to the right quickly in order to avoid an oncoming car.

Frankly, in my opinion participating in activities that create an adversarial relationship between bicyclists and motorists can not do a lot of good. There's enough road rage out there already and it's gotten people killed. We don't need more.

After getting off a bus downtown Friday, I saw a portion of the ride before things got ugly. It is cool to see that many cyclists together. The cops were following but it looked to me that point that they were not there to hassle the riders. In fact they seemed to be there to protect that riders as much as anything else. It's too bad someone couldn't come up with a way to get that many cyclists together and have it been seen as a postive thing by motorist and cyclist alike.

If CM wants to continue this activity and they really care about promoting cycling, how about insisting that anyone paricipating in these rides has to wear a helmet?

One trouble maker caused a scene and got arrested. The crowd became a mob, some of them got arrested and a bunch got sprayed. Sounds to me like everybody got exactly what they asked for and deserved.

Sure, there's some bad cops out there, but they don't last. Just like there are in every other group of people. I feel that the percentage of good cops is much higher than the percentage of good cyclists.


Allen said most of the people arrested will be charged with third degree riot. According to Minnesota statute, that's defined as "when three or more persons assembled disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful force or violence to person or property." The maximum penalty is one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

The judge should max them out.

Having lived in other big cities after many years in the Twin Cities, let me start by praising Twin Cities cops -- way more connected to the community and way less into comic book paramilitary violent reaction to minor public disorder like homeless people or public gatherings or Critical Mass than any other big American city I've experienced.

That said, I call bull on all the cop defenders above.

At the very worst, one or two creeps were potential targets for law enforcement during Friday's Critical Mass, and even that's in dispute ("They were riding directly at cars, using insulting language! Oh the horror!" Ask me why I don't think this cop-quoting is neccessarily strictly accurate).

In any event, justifying the Tasers/pepper spray/shove them off their bikes/arrests/suspended bail response against a score of other riders requires that you give up any notion of civil liberties and liberal standards of conduct in a big community. Theirs, and yours, too. I mean, this has nothing do do with bicycles, really. It just has to do with whether Americans still have any patriotic attachment whatsoever to, like, the Bill of Rights.

OK, I'm still ambivalent about some parts of this incident. First, I think the cops in Minneapolis are sweeter and kinder than almost any cops anywhere else in the big-city United States. But I guess that just makes me disproportionately angrier at the out-of-control, pepper-spraying and Tasering cops at this event.

And I've always had some ambivalence about Critical Mass precisely because it seems like a completely naive and passive target for creeps seeking to subvert and discredit it. However, it ain't but a minor traffic jam once a month compared to the huge automobile traffic jams twice a day on every other day of the month.

And I've never seen or heard of an auto traffic jam being broken up with Tasers and pepper spray.

So I think there's a double standard.

But the longer I sit here thinking about it, maybe the cops are right! Maybe they ought to break out their Tasers and pepper spray at rush hour every day.

If I still lived in the Twin Cities, I'd be buying thrift store bikes and fixing them up and giving them to my friends without bicycles and working hard to make sure that Critical Mass on Friday, September 28 is so huge and disruptive that everyone gets the message that the Twin Cities don't let their cops do crap like this any more.