View Full Version : A New Term For Cars--DOGIES
Cosmoline
09-01-07, 08:28 PM
One thing that's dawned on me lately is how much all these cars are like simple minded herd animals. They're potentially dangerous, but with a firm hand and a few slaps they get along just fine. You just have to keep an eye on them. When I treat the cars like cattle we all seem to get along better. Indeed, I've been surprised how responsive they are to a firm hand directing them to one place or another. You just have to be consistent and clear.
So instead of "cager" I suggest we start calling the creatures cattle or dogies. And telling them to get along.
kjohnnytarr
09-01-07, 09:08 PM
I love it.
Newspaperguy
09-01-07, 09:13 PM
I prefer the term "motorists." It offers a human element in a setting where the human dimension is easily forgotten.
Too often, people will say, "that car cut me off" or "that truck ran a red light." It's more accurate to say, "that motorist cut me off."
Cars can have a dehumanizing effect, but in the end, the people piloting those machines are people, just like you and me. We minimize that human element when we refer to them as cattle or as "cagers."
Cosmoline
09-01-07, 09:14 PM
I actually don't think you're fully human in a car. And it's not the motorist I have problems with, it's the car. Rational people become herd animals in a car.
Bikepacker67
09-01-07, 09:21 PM
One thing that's dawned on me lately is how much all these cars are like simple minded herd animals. They're potentially dangerous, but with a firm hand and a few slaps they get along just fine.
That is sooo weird... Lately I've entertained the exact same thoughts.
They're like the bison I had to negotiate when I worked in Yellowstone.
So instead of "cager" I suggest we start calling the creatures cattle or dogies. And telling them to get along.
I like it.
littledog
09-01-07, 11:17 PM
One thing that's dawned on me lately is how much all these cars are like simple minded herd animals. They're potentially dangerous, but with a firm hand and a few slaps they get along just fine. You just have to keep an eye on them. When I treat the cars like cattle we all seem to get along better. Indeed, I've been surprised how responsive they are to a firm hand directing them to one place or another. You just have to be consistent and clear.
So instead of "cager" I suggest we start calling the creatures cattle or dogies. And telling them to get along.
Using that definition wouldn't bicyclists more accurately be called drovers?
Pepper Grinder
09-02-07, 02:38 AM
This is just retarded elitism. Get a life.
I actually don't think you're fully human in a car. And it's not the motorist I have problems with, it's the car. Rational people become herd animals in a car. There is surprisingly much truth to this.
It is well-known that the psychology of a crowd is very different from the psychology of the individuals making up a crowd. Similarly, the psychology of a car does not quite seem to be the psychology of the individual driving the car. Totally weird and completely scientifically unsupported, but deep down I know it's true. Many years of anecdotal evidence. :D
I actually don't think you're fully human in a car. And it's not the motorist I have problems with, it's the car. Rational people become herd animals in a car.
Is that a generalization, or a stereotype? I ride bicycles, a motorcycle and own both a small economy car and a larger 4WD. Yet I am still one person, so what does that make me? Am I suddenly less human in my car? I openly express my disdain for inconsiderate motorists, incompetent motorcyclists, and clueless cyclists.
While I am very much pro-cycling in any form, I am saddened to see that some of you are so anti-car. How many of you have handicapped children, or a frail relative? How do you decide who should have a car, and who should go without? And when will you give the term "cager" a rest? I doubt the idiot that cut you off the other day while they were talking on their phone and not paying attention to where they were going would ever consider their vehicle a cage. Comfy seats, noise-reduction glass, air conditioning (personally, I would rather have the window down, even in the rain) and satellite radio - hardly a cage.
I guess what I'm after is an answer to why so many here in LCF get so worked up over cars and motorists. Enjoy your lifestyle, and stop getting so bent out of shape. If you've been riding for any amount of time, the stupid actions of motorists should now be predictable. I commute by motorcycle, and that leaves me far more exposed than while on my bicycle. But I don't complain, I just keep my eyes and ears open, and enjoy the ride.
I guess what I'm after is an answer to why so many here in LCF get so worked up over cars and motorists.
Believe me, far fewer get worked up about cars here than they do on the other forums, especially A&S, Commuting and Road. I don't think I ever saw the word cager here until a few days ago, now there's like 17 threads about it all of a sudden. I have yet to see "JAM" used here, and that's common on several of the other forums, and much more derogatory than "cager."
In fact, I use cager and I don't mean anything derogatory by it at all. Every group has a term to describe the other humans who are not part of the group. This is just human nature. Most paleolithic societies simply called themselves "the humans." The important thing to remember, as H.S. Sullivan put it:
"Underneath it all, we are all simply more human than otherwise."
joeprim
09-02-07, 06:16 PM
"Get along little doggies Montana will be your new home ..."
Joe
I actually don't think you're fully human in a car. And it's not the motorist I have problems with, it's the car. Rational people become herd animals in a car.
Extremely isolated/insulated herd animals. A seeming contradiction.
Bushman
09-02-07, 09:25 PM
This is just retarded elitism. Get a life.
+ 1 I agree fully, just because you ride a bike, it doesn't make you special or superior. :)
Is that a generalization, or a stereotype? I ride bicycles, a motorcycle and own both a small economy car and a larger 4WD. Yet I am still one person, so what does that make me? Am I suddenly less human in my car? I openly express my disdain for inconsiderate motorists, incompetent motorcyclists, and clueless cyclists.
While I am very much pro-cycling in any form, I am saddened to see that some of you are so anti-car. How many of you have handicapped children, or a frail relative? How do you decide who should have a car, and who should go without? And when will you give the term "cager" a rest? I doubt the idiot that cut you off the other day while they were talking on their phone and not paying attention to where they were going would ever consider their vehicle a cage. Comfy seats, noise-reduction glass, air conditioning (personally, I would rather have the window down, even in the rain) and satellite radio - hardly a cage.
I guess what I'm after is an answer to why so many here in LCF get so worked up over cars and motorists. Enjoy your lifestyle, and stop getting so bent out of shape. If you've been riding for any amount of time, the stupid actions of motorists should now be predictable. I commute by motorcycle, and that leaves me far more exposed than while on my bicycle. But I don't complain, I just keep my eyes and ears open, and enjoy the ride.
+ 1 well said!
Is that a generalization, or a stereotype? I ride bicycles, a motorcycle and own both a small economy car and a larger 4WD. Yet I am still one person, so what does that make me? Am I suddenly less human in my car? I openly express my disdain for inconsiderate motorists, incompetent motorcyclists, and clueless cyclists.
While I am very much pro-cycling in any form, I am saddened to see that some of you are so anti-car. How many of you have handicapped children, or a frail relative? How do you decide who should have a car, and who should go without? And when will you give the term "cager" a rest? I doubt the idiot that cut you off the other day while they were talking on their phone and not paying attention to where they were going would ever consider their vehicle a cage. Comfy seats, noise-reduction glass, air conditioning (personally, I would rather have the window down, even in the rain) and satellite radio - hardly a cage.
I guess what I'm after is an answer to why so many here in LCF get so worked up over cars and motorists. Enjoy your lifestyle, and stop getting so bent out of shape. If you've been riding for any amount of time, the stupid actions of motorists should now be predictable. I commute by motorcycle, and that leaves me far more exposed than while on my bicycle. But I don't complain, I just keep my eyes and ears open, and enjoy the ride.
Does this post really behoove a "moderator"?
Does this post really behoove a "moderator"?
Well, the term "Cager" is usually used in a derogatory manner, yet I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of the forums 87,000+ members own and drive motor vehicles. So you tell me what's appropriate, ok?
I have tried to participate to some extent all over the forums, and I'm generally unwelcome in the one forum that sees the least amount of participation.
Is that a generalization, or a stereotype? I ride bicycles, a motorcycle and own both a small economy car and a larger 4WD. Yet I am still one person, so what does that make me? Am I suddenly less human in my car? I openly express my disdain for inconsiderate motorists, incompetent motorcyclists, and clueless cyclists.
While I am very much pro-cycling in any form, I am saddened to see that some of you are so anti-car. How many of you have handicapped children, or a frail relative? How do you decide who should have a car, and who should go without? And when will you give the term "cager" a rest? I doubt the idiot that cut you off the other day while they were talking on their phone and not paying attention to where they were going would ever consider their vehicle a cage. Comfy seats, noise-reduction glass, air conditioning (personally, I would rather have the window down, even in the rain) and satellite radio - hardly a cage.
I guess what I'm after is an answer to why so many here in LCF get so worked up over cars and motorists. Enjoy your lifestyle, and stop getting so bent out of shape. If you've been riding for any amount of time, the stupid actions of motorists should now be predictable. I commute by motorcycle, and that leaves me far more exposed than while on my bicycle. But I don't complain, I just keep my eyes and ears open, and enjoy the ride.
I think it's a matter of physics. It's much easier to take it personally when an idiot does something unsafe around you, or, worse, intentionally tries to intimidate you, when his vehicle out-masses yours by a factor of 120, and has a velocity at least 4 times greater. If you experience this a few times a month, or even, in the case of some people, many times a week, a few people are naturally going to develop an attitude.
Personally, I don't hate car drivers at all; virtually every adult I know and love has a car, and most of the drivers I encounter are fairly polite. However, I think all of us would be better off if there were fewer cars, and I'm quite certain that, if you live in an urban area, you don't actually need one. I also think the quality of life of our cities would improve if there were fewer cars. Although I don't actually hate cars, I don't really much approve of them, either. That's just what I think. If you don't agree with me, that's up to you. All I ask is that you respect opinions that you don't share. (This is especially important given your role here.)
BTW, LCF is not at all the least-visited forum on this site.
CommuterRun
09-03-07, 02:59 AM
So you tell me what's appropriate, ok?
Okay.
When I drive, I'm a cager. As are all the other cagers.
I doubt the idiot that cut you off the other day while they were talking on their phone and not paying attention to where they were going would ever consider their vehicle a cage. Comfy seats, noise-reduction glass, air conditioning (personally, I would rather have the window down, even in the rain) and satellite radio - hardly a cage.
A cage, no matter how heavily gilded, is still a cage.
And lik you, I am not anti-car nearly as much as I am pro-bike.
Dogies isn't bad, but I prefer to think of them as sheep. What a following cager sees the cager ahead get away with, they will do.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-03-07, 07:59 AM
Does this post really behoove a "moderator"?
Common sense behooves anybody, even moderators. Should moderators abandon it in deference to the tender sensibilities of the "cager/cager lifestyle" bashers of LCF?
Nachoman
09-03-07, 08:12 AM
Stepford moderators.
Common sense behooves anybody, even moderators. Should moderators abandon it in deference to the tender sensibilities of the "cager/cager lifestyle" bashers of LCF?
But Brian's post is sort of like going to a sports bar and being upset that Victory Garden isn't on the tellie...
But Brian's post is sort of like going to a sports bar and being upset that Victory Garden isn't on the tellie...
Oh, so LCF is about car-bashing? As a reminder, you guys were surprised to see 57 people in LCF at one time. While I would love to see this very small minority grow, it won't happen by bashing the rest of the forums.
littledog
09-03-07, 11:07 AM
Better a drover than dogie any old day I say. How about calling those in a four wheeled (or more) steel cage prisoners? Really I don't want to call them anything disrespectful myself. But if I was going to do that I think prisoner would be OK.
Better a drover than dogie any old day I say. How about calling those in a four wheeled (or more) steel cage prisoners? Really I don't want to call them anything disrespectful myself. But if I was going to do that I think prisoner would be OK.
But they have the freedom to go anywhere they wish. Hardly prisoners.
Cosmoline
09-03-07, 12:47 PM
Using that definition wouldn't bicyclists more accurately be called drovers?
Yippee kay-yay :D Heck, with the leather saddle my bike does sort of seem like an alloy horse.
But they have the freedom to go anywhere they wish. Hardly prisoners.
Do they? Apart from off road vehicles they're stuck on drivable roads, and in any other circumstances become bogged down and die. Anyplace I can't ride my bike I can walk it. We'll see who's getting around better after the next nine pointer.
Cosmoline
09-03-07, 12:53 PM
Is that a generalization, or a stereotype?
It's based on thousands of days of observation both as a driver and a bike rider. I'm not immune. I've logged a quarter million miles in autos, and absolutely become the same kind of herd animal when I'm in a car. I get emotional, overheated and prone to outbursts. At the same time, I shuffle along with the rest of the herd like everyone else. On a bike, I'm free and fully human. In a car I'm something else. And judging by the way other drivers act I'm not the only one to go through this.
Apart from off road vehicles they're stuck on drivable roads, and in any other circumstances become bogged down and die. Anyplace I can't ride my bike I can walk it.
Last weekend I watched a guy in a Chevy 4WD struggle to get up a rocky dirt road on the side of a mountain that I had just driven my Scion xB up. We left the Jeep at home. But I won't argue the concept. So Ikea is only 20 miles up the freeway from our house - how would you get there on your (freedom!) bike?
wahoonc
09-03-07, 01:41 PM
Last weekend I watched a guy in a Chevy 4WD struggle to get up a rocky dirt road on the side of a mountain that I had just driven my Scion xB up. We left the Jeep at home. But I won't argue the concept. So Ikea is only 20 miles up the freeway from our house - how would you get there on your (freedom!) bike?
Ikea doesn't sell anything that I am aware of...that I need. FWIW the closest IKEA to my house is over 6 hours away...by car:rolleyes:
Aaron:)
Last weekend I watched a guy in a Chevy 4WD struggle to get up a rocky dirt road on the side of a mountain that I had just driven my Scion xB up. We left the Jeep at home. But I won't argue the concept. So Ikea is only 20 miles up the freeway from our house - how would you get there on your (freedom!) bike?
Why do you hang out in LCF again?
You are free to go anywhere you can drive your vehicle. If you can get it up mountains, more power to you... you are also free to go anywhere society has built up infrastructure - typically roads, bridges, fuel stations, etc.
Yes, you can pack fuel and food and head out into the Sahara... go for it.
You could even put a car in a rocket and drive all over the moon... (we've already done that!)
Here's a woman who took her 'freedom bike' to Ikea (http://crazybikerchick.blogspot.com/2004/09/ikea-part-ii-aka-fun-with-cargo.html).
Why do you want the terrorists to win? ;)
Why do you hang out in LCF again?
I don't. I just visit, since like a lot of other members that happen to own or ride in motor vehicles, I don't feel very welcome here.
By the way, I would like to discuss some things I read on your blog. Email if you're open to that. I do a lot of marketing and promotional work, which might be beneficial to you at some point.
I don't. I just visit, since like a lot of other members that happen to own or ride in motor vehicles, I don't feel very welcome here.
By the way, I would like to discuss some things I read on your blog. Email if you're open to that. I do a lot of marketing and promotional work, which might be beneficial to you at some point.
I drive too... as I mentioned on the lcb blog we're working towards a different model for our lives... hard work, for sure.
I'll keep it in mind.
I just visit, since like a lot of other members that happen to own or ride in motor vehicles, I don't feel very welcome here.
Well, Brian, you've certainly done your part to keep this thread lively... Anyway, from reading your posts, and I could be wrong about this, I get the sense that the very idea of a carfree life is what offends you. You're like a cat lady who gets irritated when she runs across a person who dislikes cats.
Okay, some people in this forum, me included, get a bit uppity about cars at times, but compared to A & S, this place is remarkably civil. I see almost no personal attacks, and most posts are at least a little bit thoughtful. My impression is that most people on this forum are quite tolerant of, and very willing to engage with, people who drive on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure that if I, as a dedicated meat eater, went to a vegan forum and complained that no one there liked burgers, I'd get a much, much chillier reception than motorcycle-riding, SUV-driving people get here.
BTW, I've transported an outboard motor from Seattle to Edmonds using a bike and a trailer. If you think about it for a few minutes, it's possible to do just about anything without a car, even go to IKEA.
I get the sense that the very idea of a carfree life is what offends you.
Are you sure it's not the constant whining about motorists, (cagers) and the supposedly high cost of vehicle ownership that annoys me? There's more to it, but that kind of truth should not be posted here, for it would surely offend those to which it applies.
I would love to get around by bicycle more. And should I need tips on how to do so, this is the last place I would look for advice.
Cosmoline
09-04-07, 10:46 AM
So Ikea is only 20 miles up the freeway from our house - how would you get there on your (freedom!) bike?
I'd skip Ikea because it's overpriced junk. You can do much better using a sharp eye on craigslist. But I ride across town further than that if I need to on the surface roads.
Cosmoline
09-04-07, 10:52 AM
Are you sure it's not the constant whining about motorists, (cagers) and the supposedly high cost of vehicle ownership that annoys me?
"Supposedly high cost"? I'll try to remember that the next time I swing by the liquor store on my creaky, useless bicycle and pick up some more 15 year old Laphroaig. A treat that costs me less than a month's worth of mandatory MV insurance, BTW. If you have to use the cash to some mega insurer, that's unfortunate. But don't come here claiming the cost is low. I fed that monkey for many years and I *KNOW* the cost in hard cash. Not to mention the cost in soft bellies and weak muscles.
"Supposedly high cost"? I'll try to remember that the next time I swing by the liquor store on my creaky, useless bicycle and pick up some more 15 year old Laphroaig. A treat that costs me less than a month's worth of mandatory MV insurance, BTW. If you have to use the cash to some mega insurer, that's unfortunate. But don't come here claiming the cost is low. I fed that monkey for many years and I *KNOW* the cost in hard cash. Not to mention the cost in soft bellies and weak muscles.
cost/value ratio is relative... so Brian may think of his car expenses as insignificant... whereas I could make my income #s work to see it that way - I can't justify it.
but my wife and I painfully have 2 cars and are working on ditching one (it sits here collecting dust) and test riding out car-lite when our little one arrives. if we can make it work, we'll ditch auto #2...
littledog
09-04-07, 11:10 AM
Are you sure it's not the constant whining about motorists, (cagers) and the supposedly high cost of vehicle ownership that annoys me? There's more to it, but that kind of truth should not be posted here, for it would surely offend those to which it applies.
I would love to get around by bicycle more. And should I need tips on how to do so, this is the last place I would look for advice.
When I noticed that posts were coming up about cagers I spoke up about it. Forum members expressed their opinions and there was no flame war.
Now on the supposedly high cost of vehicle ownership. For people who are low income cars are prohibitively expensive. And a source of considerable debt to people who can least afford it. If the Government is going to spend hundreds of billions on transport systems it seems to me that the money would be best spent on bus,light rail and rail freight systems rather than highways. This would enable people to get to jobs on a transportation budget that they can reasonably afford. Those in poverty could at least become low income that way. And the low income could afford to buy homes which would turn the inner cities around with the absent slumlords being put out of business. And become solid working or even middle class citizens.Especially if there is mass transit to Junior Colleges and Universities.
When transportation costs are more reasonable everyone benefits. Including the ghetto areas of downtowns and the inner/oldest suburbs. There is cleaner air to breath for everyone with mass transportation. Less crime with people who have a real stake economically in revitalized communities. Not to mention less global warming,less disappearing farmlands and possibly and end to oil wars.
Isn't a measure of the greatness of a Nation based on how they treat the less fortunate? By offering them a chance to participate in a more stable and rising standard of living?
I really think you should spend more time in LCF rather then just make a quick judgment without really finding out what we are all about.
How many in here (US only) vote?
evblazer
09-04-07, 11:39 AM
But they have the freedom to go anywhere they wish. Hardly prisoners.
While they go there they are stuck in there car mindlessly moving from one destination to the other completely seperated from the world around them. While they are participating in their transporation they are prisoners when they arrive at their destinations they are free as their sentence has been served. I think many cyclists would say riding your bicycle leaves you more free to interact with the world around you and enjoy it rather then zoom on by.
How many in here (US only) vote?
And what has this post added to this thread in this forum? Are you saying if we don't vote we shouldn't participate in an online forum or that our opinion doesn't matter? Or maybe if we vote it is our fault for not voting right which led to this car centric society? Vote no Registered No.. followed it yes but never saw anything to vote for
<Insert insult to LCF ideas and bringing up reasons it won't fit into my exact lifestyle here>
Are you just trying to up the posts on LCF so it doesn't get deleted or something by posting inflamatory remarks?
How many in here (US only) vote?
voter here. and bicycle advocate. and previous town board volunteer.
taking a poll about voting is a tricky business, especially if you are suggesting that things could easily change if people just voted differently.
this thread will get thrown into P&R if we go down that path, and my guess is that 'cager' will be one of the more polite names that gets thrown around. ;)
evblazer
09-04-07, 11:42 AM
My original reason was to ask what ever happened to using Lemmings? It is somewhat mythy in it's use now but even the non myth reasoning for their dealths sounds pretty good for this.
"Often, a small stream or similar obstacle will block the migrating lemmings' path, causing them to stop and scurry around in a panic until the overwhelming urge to press on drives them to overcome the obstacle no matter what the consequence. In most cases, large migrating groups of lemmings will reach a cliff overlooking the ocean (as is common in their environment), where they will stop until the urge to press on causes them to all jump off of the cliff and start swimming to exhaustion. They, inevitably, drown as a result"
Edit: This could be said of certain groups of cyclists. So I guess we can't call drivers lemmings because cyclists can be lemmings too.
Artkansas
09-04-07, 12:44 PM
My brother used to point out that the best named car was the Dodge.
kjohnnytarr
09-04-07, 01:07 PM
+ 1 I agree fully, just because you ride a bike, it doesn't make you special or superior. :)
I disagree. I think riding makes you superior, in the same way that a man who works for his food is superior to the one who has it brought to him on the couch.
cost/value ratio is relative... so Brian may think of his car expenses as insignificant... whereas I could make my income #s work to see it that way - I can't justify it.
but my wife and I painfully have 2 cars and are working on ditching one (it sits here collecting dust) and test riding out car-lite when our little one arrives. if we can make it work, we'll ditch auto #2...
If you can make it work, car free with a child, that is awesome. :beer:
While they go there they are stuck in there car mindlessly moving from one destination to the other completely seperated from the world around them. While they are participating in their transporation they are prisoners when they arrive at their destinations they are free as their sentence has been served. I think many cyclists would say riding your bicycle leaves you more free to interact with the world around you and enjoy it rather then zoom on by.
Mindlessly? Ok then, we'll let you generalize. From some of the other threads I've seen on the forums, the interaction cyclists experience with the world around them is not always positive.
And what has this post added to this thread in this forum? Are you saying if we don't vote we shouldn't participate in an online forum or that our opinion doesn't matter? Or maybe if we vote it is our fault for not voting right which led to this car centric society? Vote no Registered No.. followed it yes but never saw anything to vote for
Are you just trying to up the posts on LCF so it doesn't get deleted or something by posting inflamatory remarks?
What I'm asking is, if you don't like the current transportation infrastructure, on either the national or local level, what have you done about it? One member responded that he has gotten very involved, to which I offer much respect. Action begets change. Whining, not so much.
LCF will never get deleted. That I can assure you. But I don't have much hope for more participation.
voter here. and bicycle advocate. and previous town board volunteer.
taking a poll about voting is a tricky business, especially if you are suggesting that things could easily change if people just voted differently.
this thread will get thrown into P&R if we go down that path, and my guess is that 'cager' will be one of the more polite names that gets thrown around. ;)
Nope. It won't get moved to P&R, or anywhere else. But tell me, why is Portland so different from the rest of the US? Why is it so bike-friendly?
hey brian, please correct the attributable quotes in your previous post. you got mine correct on 2 out of the 4. i didn't post the 3rd quote. thanks.
hey brian, please correct the attributable quotes in your previous post. you got mine correct on 2 out of the 4. i didn't post the 3rd quote. thanks.
Sorry. Fixed.
Nope. It won't get moved to P&R, or anywhere else. But tell me, why is Portland so different from the rest of the US? Why is it so bike-friendly?
lots of reasons I'm sure. urban growth boundary, a previous mayor who defeated a highway project and threw the money into public transportation. interested and caring citizens. terrain and climate that make it easier than other places. actual neighborhoods that people live in, versus sprawl and urban wasteland... and yes, people who vote and do advocacy.
i've only visited, so some portlanders should chime in here...
my comment was more about the US in general... politics on a local level is IMO the only politics that really work - face to face, neighbor to neighbor. stretching it to regional can be done... but its tricky. taking it nationally i think does the people involved and the people it serves a disservice.
lots of reasons I'm sure. urban growth boundary, a previous mayor who defeated a highway project and threw the money into public transportation. interested and caring citizens. terrain and climate that make it easier than other places. actual neighborhoods that people live in, versus sprawl and urban wasteland... and yes, people who vote and do advocacy.
i've only visited, so some portlanders should chime in here...
my comment was more about the US in general... politics on a local level is IMO the only politics that really work - face to face, neighbor to neighbor. stretching it to regional can be done... but its tricky. taking it nationally i think does the people involved and the people it serves a disservice.
We need more cities like that.
Since you asked:
I vote. I also attend planning meetings and meetings of a community organization interested in alternative transit.
If I need to buy something big from Ikea, my landlord has already offered to get it for me on one of his trips there. (He has a Truck with a trailer.) The nearest IKEA store is over 100 miles from me, and I don' t carry much over 25-30 pounds on my bike. I'm definitely a lightweight compared to many on this forum.
I don't hate drivers. All of my friends and relatives drive and I love them a lot. I drive about 5 miles a month, compared to the the 300-500 miles I ride.
Brian has a hostile attitude toward carfree living, but he's down on those who are equally hostile toward car-centered living. So that's not surprising, I'm used to that in real life, but it's kind of weird to see it here on a forum called Living Carfree!
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