Artkansas
09-06-07, 08:18 AM
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/TheRealReasonYoureBroke.aspx
Living Car Free - The Real Reason they're broke
Bikeforums.net is a forum about nothing but bikes. Our community can help you find information about hard-to-find and localized information like bicycle tours, specialties like where in your area to have your recumbent bike serviced, or what are the best bicycle tires and seats for the activities you use your bike for.East Hill
09-06-07, 08:21 AM
I've heard that that's not true. Just because I have a budget, have the car paid off, use as little gas as possible, last replaced the vehicle when it was over ten years old and ONLY because my husband insisted, the pickup was paid off ten years ago, and will be kept until I die (hopefully many years from now)...and I hate paying insurance because there are far better things to do with that money.
East Hill
East Hill
evblazer
09-06-07, 08:29 AM
CAR HATER!!! :eek::eek::eek:
Just kidding! I just wanted to get that out of the way for anyone thinking that.
It is a really good article and you can apply much of that same logic to the housing markets of the last few years, not this year perhaps.
Hm the first few points there
*Viewing cars as a need rather than a want
*Treating cars as a status symbol
*Failing to consider the overall costs
*Assuming they can afford a payment simply because a lender approved it
At least your house isn't worthless after a few years though. I know far too many people who with two months of their car payments/insurance I could buy my bike and all my gear over again. Then when I mention how much my pedals cost they say they would rather walk :( Thanksfully I know a few, and many people who would visit this forum may fit this too, that can actually afford the car they have if they have one at all.
If you have a TV, have cable and need to burn half an hour or so watch king of cars sometime you'll see those 4 points in action in almost every deal.
And hey this should point to LCF "Rethink the whole thing. Isn't there something else on which you'd rather spend $8,000 a year? With that as your motivator, you may be able to find a way to live without a car, or with one less car if yours is a multiple-vehicle family, or to keep the car you have going for a little longer. Maybe not, but it's worth thinking about the options before you commit yourself to another payment."
Just kidding! I just wanted to get that out of the way for anyone thinking that.
It is a really good article and you can apply much of that same logic to the housing markets of the last few years, not this year perhaps.
Hm the first few points there
*Viewing cars as a need rather than a want
*Treating cars as a status symbol
*Failing to consider the overall costs
*Assuming they can afford a payment simply because a lender approved it
At least your house isn't worthless after a few years though. I know far too many people who with two months of their car payments/insurance I could buy my bike and all my gear over again. Then when I mention how much my pedals cost they say they would rather walk :( Thanksfully I know a few, and many people who would visit this forum may fit this too, that can actually afford the car they have if they have one at all.
If you have a TV, have cable and need to burn half an hour or so watch king of cars sometime you'll see those 4 points in action in almost every deal.
And hey this should point to LCF "Rethink the whole thing. Isn't there something else on which you'd rather spend $8,000 a year? With that as your motivator, you may be able to find a way to live without a car, or with one less car if yours is a multiple-vehicle family, or to keep the car you have going for a little longer. Maybe not, but it's worth thinking about the options before you commit yourself to another payment."
gwd
09-06-07, 08:38 AM
Parts of that article read like rants on Living Car Free.
"Isn't there something else on which you'd rather spend $8,000 a year?"
"...you may be able to find a way to live without a car, or with one less car if yours is a multiple-vehicle family,..."
"Viewing cars as a need rather than a want. Transportation is, indeed, a real need. We have to get to the grocery store and to work. But many of us have plenty of options, from our own feet to public transportation to car pools to shared car arrangements."
"You can't watch television for long without being bombarded by car commercials, and many of us have absorbed the idea that we are what we drive. It's complete BS, of course, but some people have been so brainwashed that they literally drive themselves into bankruptcy."
"Isn't there something else on which you'd rather spend $8,000 a year?"
"...you may be able to find a way to live without a car, or with one less car if yours is a multiple-vehicle family,..."
"Viewing cars as a need rather than a want. Transportation is, indeed, a real need. We have to get to the grocery store and to work. But many of us have plenty of options, from our own feet to public transportation to car pools to shared car arrangements."
"You can't watch television for long without being bombarded by car commercials, and many of us have absorbed the idea that we are what we drive. It's complete BS, of course, but some people have been so brainwashed that they literally drive themselves into bankruptcy."
bpohl
09-06-07, 09:24 AM
Wow, the average person in my income bracket spends TRIPLE what I do on motor vehicles. Although, in the past few months, I've spent less on the paper weight in my driveway than I have on my bike.
evblazer
09-06-07, 09:36 AM
I just wanna know where all these practicle people are that they are complaining about that only spend 8k on a car every year ;)
'round here only people near poverty spend that little :rolleyes:
'round here only people near poverty spend that little :rolleyes:
Jerseysbest
09-06-07, 10:13 AM
That must be for people who buy or lease new cars every few years.
If you don't consider the fact I paid my insurance all at once, my 2000 Civic costs me about $40 in gas a month. But the higher rent I pay that allows me to live closer to work and only drive once a week might tack on an extra 2 or 300 to that.
But I'd still rater have that 2 or 300 go to rent than be dependent on my car, and if need be, go entirely without a car, until I go back to get my masters, that is.
If you don't consider the fact I paid my insurance all at once, my 2000 Civic costs me about $40 in gas a month. But the higher rent I pay that allows me to live closer to work and only drive once a week might tack on an extra 2 or 300 to that.
But I'd still rater have that 2 or 300 go to rent than be dependent on my car, and if need be, go entirely without a car, until I go back to get my masters, that is.
acroy
09-06-07, 10:34 AM
hey whaddaya know, cars are expensive
it's the American way. Quickly becoming the Global way.
It pays for a lot of advertising. I bet if suddenly all the car advertising money was pulled, the media industry would collapse.
I bet if suddenly every driver started obeying the traffic rules and cops could write no tickets, most local governments would collapse.
I bet if for one week, every car was parked and untouched, the entire world economy would shake.
it's the American way. Quickly becoming the Global way.
It pays for a lot of advertising. I bet if suddenly all the car advertising money was pulled, the media industry would collapse.
I bet if suddenly every driver started obeying the traffic rules and cops could write no tickets, most local governments would collapse.
I bet if for one week, every car was parked and untouched, the entire world economy would shake.
Artkansas
09-06-07, 11:43 AM
It pays for a lot of advertising. I bet if suddenly all the car advertising money was pulled, the media industry would collapse.
That is for sure. Ask any account executive of a TV station. Car Dealers are the ones who pay the bills.
That is for sure. Ask any account executive of a TV station. Car Dealers are the ones who pay the bills.
squegeeboo
09-06-07, 12:36 PM
oh, this is the real reason why I'm broke:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1330/1299265807_d9887702f0.jpg
I keep on choosing the one in the right hand over the one in the left hand...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1330/1299265807_d9887702f0.jpg
I keep on choosing the one in the right hand over the one in the left hand...
Kestrelman
09-06-07, 12:55 PM
My old 1994 Saturn SW - paid 1500.00 for it used a few years ago, so no payments. Drive just a few times a week - 20.00 per week in gas. 40.00 monthly insurance. 1 repair all of last year = app. 2000.00 cost last year. And to think I could have put that money toward a bike :p.
jeff-o
09-06-07, 01:11 PM
Every car we've ever bought has been used and paid for in full before leaving the lot. It keeps things simple.
ralph12
09-06-07, 01:25 PM
oh, this is the real reason why I'm broke:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1330/1299265807_d9887702f0.jpg
I keep on choosing the one in the right hand over the one in the left hand...
IPA FTW!
Is that a spartan utilikilt?
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1330/1299265807_d9887702f0.jpg
I keep on choosing the one in the right hand over the one in the left hand...
IPA FTW!
Is that a spartan utilikilt?
squegeeboo
09-06-07, 02:12 PM
IPA FTW!
Is that a spartan utilikilt?
You know it is. Perfect for Ultimate Frisbee (but you have to wear shorts under it, or give people a show, your choice)
Is that a spartan utilikilt?
You know it is. Perfect for Ultimate Frisbee (but you have to wear shorts under it, or give people a show, your choice)
kc9eog
09-06-07, 07:05 PM
I came here to post this same article, but was beaten to it. My question was to ask why has the bicycle transport crowd failed so miserably? This article says a car isn't a need, it is a want, and then says "many of us have plenty of options, from our own feet..." Do these articles ever mention the lowly bicyle? Isn't the gist of this article "you poor thing, maybe you spend too much on a car, but the dealership is after your money, and car ads are everywhere; what are you going to do, walk?" They give plenty of decent options to lower car costs but it still bugs me that transportation options in this country seem to be one acceptable solution and several unhappy ones (to most americans)
1. car (under warranty, payment)
2. car (beater, unreliable, replace with payment asap!)
3. The worthless bus
4. don't like it, then walk!
And down at the bottom of the list...
5. bicyles are for DUI convictions and poor people
1. car (under warranty, payment)
2. car (beater, unreliable, replace with payment asap!)
3. The worthless bus
4. don't like it, then walk!
And down at the bottom of the list...
5. bicyles are for DUI convictions and poor people
Dahon.Steve
09-06-07, 08:49 PM
From the article:
<<<<"Average transportation spending grew more than 12% between 1999 and 2005, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, at a time when median income growth was basically flat. Even when adjusted for inflation, we're spending more: 8.3% more in 2005 than in 1995, with people in the lowest and highest income brackets accelerating their spending the most. <<<<<<<
It's incredible how expensive cars are costing today. I see those same commercials on TV boasting a vehicle costing over 40K -50K! Who's buying these cars! Seriously. It would take me 25 years of hard savings to come up with 50 thousand dollars.
I guss those commercials really don't expect anyone to have that kind of money so you are expected to take out a costly lease for 7 years, return the car back after 5 years and get a new lease with even higher monthly payments! From what I read, this is quite common. Now you know the motorist is broke!
<<<<"Average transportation spending grew more than 12% between 1999 and 2005, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, at a time when median income growth was basically flat. Even when adjusted for inflation, we're spending more: 8.3% more in 2005 than in 1995, with people in the lowest and highest income brackets accelerating their spending the most. <<<<<<<
It's incredible how expensive cars are costing today. I see those same commercials on TV boasting a vehicle costing over 40K -50K! Who's buying these cars! Seriously. It would take me 25 years of hard savings to come up with 50 thousand dollars.
I guss those commercials really don't expect anyone to have that kind of money so you are expected to take out a costly lease for 7 years, return the car back after 5 years and get a new lease with even higher monthly payments! From what I read, this is quite common. Now you know the motorist is broke!
kc9eog
09-06-07, 08:55 PM
A key element of the $50,000 car is to justify the $25-30,000 car. Maybe you can't afford an Escalade, but the Tahoe is half the price and almost as good. Same for misgivings about gas consumption and emissions: prospective buyers can say "Well it gets better mileage than the Hummer, so I'm not that bad."
Or "I didn't get the biggest SUV, so when people talk about jerks in SUV's they are talking about someone else."
Or "I didn't get the biggest SUV, so when people talk about jerks in SUV's they are talking about someone else."
Dahon.Steve
09-06-07, 08:57 PM
From the article:
What we spend on transportation Income range 2005 spending
Less than $19,179 $2,742
$19,179 to $35,999 $5,330
$36,000 to $57,659-------$7,437
$57,660 to $91,704------- $10,504
More than $91, 704------- $15,691
All households
$8,344
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
HOLY COW!
I thought my transportation costs were expensive at about $1,600.00 per year. This includes both for work and play. Folks in my income bracket are spending 10K on transportation! I find that hard to believe.
Those stats are really a sad commentary in this country. If I had to spend 10K in transportation, there's no question, I would be dead broke! I don't have 10K a year in mad money and it's just unreal that people in my income bracket are spending that kind of money. Incredible.
What we spend on transportation Income range 2005 spending
Less than $19,179 $2,742
$19,179 to $35,999 $5,330
$36,000 to $57,659-------$7,437
$57,660 to $91,704------- $10,504
More than $91, 704------- $15,691
All households
$8,344
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
HOLY COW!
I thought my transportation costs were expensive at about $1,600.00 per year. This includes both for work and play. Folks in my income bracket are spending 10K on transportation! I find that hard to believe.
Those stats are really a sad commentary in this country. If I had to spend 10K in transportation, there's no question, I would be dead broke! I don't have 10K a year in mad money and it's just unreal that people in my income bracket are spending that kind of money. Incredible.
Dahon.Steve
09-06-07, 09:11 PM
My question was to ask why has the bicycle transport crowd failed so miserably? This article says a car isn't a need, it is a want, and then says "many of us have plenty of options, from our own feet..." Do these articles ever mention the lowly bicyle?
The transportation cyclist is considered too broke to afford an "inexpensive" motorcar or even public transit. Furthermore, these folks are considered strange and there may be some truth to this as only the homeless tend to make up the majority of the utility cyclist in urban areas.
The good news, you're starting to see a trend for every major bicycle manufacturer is building a "Dutch" bike of some sort. However, none of these bikes receive any kind of marketing other than a page in Bicycling. In other words, the marketing is still focused on the same crowd hoping those with Lance Amstrong Specials will go out and become transportation cyclists. They have no desire to capture or discover new markets.
The transportation cyclist is considered too broke to afford an "inexpensive" motorcar or even public transit. Furthermore, these folks are considered strange and there may be some truth to this as only the homeless tend to make up the majority of the utility cyclist in urban areas.
The good news, you're starting to see a trend for every major bicycle manufacturer is building a "Dutch" bike of some sort. However, none of these bikes receive any kind of marketing other than a page in Bicycling. In other words, the marketing is still focused on the same crowd hoping those with Lance Amstrong Specials will go out and become transportation cyclists. They have no desire to capture or discover new markets.
Anthony872
09-06-07, 10:40 PM
America's love affair is costing more & more with every passing year.
Brian
09-06-07, 10:58 PM
It's incredible how expensive cars are costing today. I see those same commercials on TV boasting a vehicle costing over 40K -50K! Who's buying these cars! Seriously. It would take me 25 years of hard savings to come up with 50 thousand dollars.
I guss those commercials really don't expect anyone to have that kind of money so you are expected to take out a costly lease for 7 years, return the car back after 5 years and get a new lease with even higher monthly payments! From what I read, this is quite common. Now you know the motorist is broke!
There are people out there to whom a $50k car is hardly a dent in their checkbook. Sadly, there are also plenty of people out there who cannot afford a car that expensive, but bought one anyway. Most new cars probably sticker in the $20-30k range, which is still a painful payment for some.
Personally, I grudgingly bought a new car that stickered at nearly $16k, and handed over a check for the full amount. I hate the idea of making payments on a depreciating asset. Oddly enough, I see them used for only $1k less than I paid 18 months ago. Go figure.
I guss those commercials really don't expect anyone to have that kind of money so you are expected to take out a costly lease for 7 years, return the car back after 5 years and get a new lease with even higher monthly payments! From what I read, this is quite common. Now you know the motorist is broke!
There are people out there to whom a $50k car is hardly a dent in their checkbook. Sadly, there are also plenty of people out there who cannot afford a car that expensive, but bought one anyway. Most new cars probably sticker in the $20-30k range, which is still a painful payment for some.
Personally, I grudgingly bought a new car that stickered at nearly $16k, and handed over a check for the full amount. I hate the idea of making payments on a depreciating asset. Oddly enough, I see them used for only $1k less than I paid 18 months ago. Go figure.
scattered73
09-06-07, 11:09 PM
I could probably swing $5330 a year, but man it would be tight probably and I wouldn't be able to afford any extras in life. I probably have to take a hit in how much I put towards retirment/savings, being car free I am thinking about increasing it from 10% to 15-20%.
Newspaperguy
09-07-07, 12:02 AM
I don't see this as a car problem; I see it as a problem with a culture of instant gratification, combined with easy credit. This problem shows itself in car purchases, but it does not begin or end there. It is present every time an advertiser extols us to buy now and pay later, or every time a sales business offers easy payment plans or guaranteed credit approval. In the past, this was the domain of furniture and appliance dealers.
Too many people don't think about the amount they must spend to buy a new vehicle. For an average working person, the ticket price will work out to six months to one year's take-home pay. (This depends on the vehicle and the wage.) That's just the price of the vehicle. It doesn't include any of the other costs such as insurance, fuel, maintenance or repairs not covered by warranty. If customers actually considered the costs of new car ownership, I think a lot more would look for used vehicles or car-light and car-free options.
Too many people don't think about the amount they must spend to buy a new vehicle. For an average working person, the ticket price will work out to six months to one year's take-home pay. (This depends on the vehicle and the wage.) That's just the price of the vehicle. It doesn't include any of the other costs such as insurance, fuel, maintenance or repairs not covered by warranty. If customers actually considered the costs of new car ownership, I think a lot more would look for used vehicles or car-light and car-free options.
bragi
09-07-07, 12:42 AM
I just wanna know where all these practicle people are that they are complaining about that only spend 8k on a car every year ;)
'round here only people near poverty spend that little :rolleyes:
What???!!! I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I do make a decent living, and even when I had a car, I never spent anywhere near $8000 on driving over the course of a year. Unless you're doing very, very well, it's just stupid to spend that much on owning, operating and maintaining a car. Borrowing money to buy a car is particularly idiotic (though I've done it myself more than once). By using a bike and public transportation, I figure I now spend about $500.00 a year on local transportation. Much better.
'round here only people near poverty spend that little :rolleyes:
What???!!! I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I do make a decent living, and even when I had a car, I never spent anywhere near $8000 on driving over the course of a year. Unless you're doing very, very well, it's just stupid to spend that much on owning, operating and maintaining a car. Borrowing money to buy a car is particularly idiotic (though I've done it myself more than once). By using a bike and public transportation, I figure I now spend about $500.00 a year on local transportation. Much better.
bragi
09-07-07, 01:17 AM
5. bicyles are for DUI convictions and poor people
It depends on where you live. Where I live, there are a lot of bicyclists, and their numbers are increasing pretty dramatically. The vast majority of these new cyclists are definitely not DWIs, nor are they homeless; they're firmly middle class. They mainly want to ride because it's less of a hassle than driving. They still own cars, they just choose not to use them in town all that much.
Today, I had to ride around quite a bit to run errands, and, just to entertain myself, I counted the number of other cyclists I encountered on the way. I stopped counting at 58. (At a couple of intersections, bicyclists outnumbered cars.)
It depends on where you live. Where I live, there are a lot of bicyclists, and their numbers are increasing pretty dramatically. The vast majority of these new cyclists are definitely not DWIs, nor are they homeless; they're firmly middle class. They mainly want to ride because it's less of a hassle than driving. They still own cars, they just choose not to use them in town all that much.
Today, I had to ride around quite a bit to run errands, and, just to entertain myself, I counted the number of other cyclists I encountered on the way. I stopped counting at 58. (At a couple of intersections, bicyclists outnumbered cars.)
Tapeworm21
09-07-07, 03:12 AM
I work in a bike shop and yesterday I had a customer worried about an extra 30 bucks for a part he needed. He decided to skip out on it and put his bike in the back of his truck. A brand new GM truck. At least $30,000. I don't get it, I really don't.
The Historian
09-07-07, 04:18 AM
I work in a bike shop and yesterday I had a customer worried about an extra 30 bucks for a part he needed. He decided to skip out on it and put his bike in the back of his truck. A brand new GM truck. At least $30,000. I don't get it, I really don't.
Bicycle = toy.
I don't agree with this equation, but that's the math many people use.
Bicycle = toy.
I don't agree with this equation, but that's the math many people use.
wahoonc
09-07-07, 04:33 AM
People "waste" money on all kinds of things. People think I am completely nuts to spend $35 on a set of yellow fenders for my expedition bike, but think nothing of going out at spending that much at a bar. It is all a matter of priorities and IMHO many people's are grossly misplaced when it comes to cars. We are having a severe drought in our area and one of the restrictions is not washing cars at home. Somebody got ticketed for it and now wants to file a lawsuit, claiming that it is his "right" to have a clean car:rolleyes: I guess he would rather have a clean car than water to drink?
Aaron:)
Aaron:)
Brian
09-07-07, 07:05 AM
And if you must own a car, food for thought (http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/103446/drive-your-car-to-death-save-31,000).
acroy
09-07-07, 07:14 AM
I read somewhere this little factoid:
average new Tahoe seeling price: $42,000
Average household income of average new Tahoe buyer: $40,000
wish i could find the source...
average new Tahoe seeling price: $42,000
Average household income of average new Tahoe buyer: $40,000
wish i could find the source...
Brian
09-07-07, 07:54 AM
I read somewhere this little factoid:
average new Tahoe seeling price: $42,000
Average household income of average new Tahoe buyer: $40,000
wish i could find the source...
No money down leaves them with a payment of close to $800/month. I'd guess insurance would have to run another $200/month, but it could be much more or even less. Factor in fuel, and that's got to be 1/2 their take home pay. Not a big deal if you live at home with mum and dad, but bad math at any rate.
average new Tahoe seeling price: $42,000
Average household income of average new Tahoe buyer: $40,000
wish i could find the source...
No money down leaves them with a payment of close to $800/month. I'd guess insurance would have to run another $200/month, but it could be much more or even less. Factor in fuel, and that's got to be 1/2 their take home pay. Not a big deal if you live at home with mum and dad, but bad math at any rate.
evblazer
09-07-07, 08:16 AM
No money down leaves them with a payment of close to $800/month. I'd guess insurance would have to run another $200/month, but it could be much more or even less. Factor in fuel, and that's got to be 1/2 their take home pay. Not a big deal if you live at home with mum and dad, but bad math at any rate.
Don't forget rolling in the amount owed from their previous tahoe which they got tired of after 2-3 years :eek: I speak from my limited exposure to people who I work with. Mostly it is the younger folks but I know someone who is near retirement who traded in a tahoe after 2 years for a tahoe XL and they pay more then 1/2 their take home pay. I almost had them sold on a Honda Silverwing Maxi Scooter too but they couldn't afford it !!?!?!?!!?! $@#()*@)(#*$
Don't forget rolling in the amount owed from their previous tahoe which they got tired of after 2-3 years :eek: I speak from my limited exposure to people who I work with. Mostly it is the younger folks but I know someone who is near retirement who traded in a tahoe after 2 years for a tahoe XL and they pay more then 1/2 their take home pay. I almost had them sold on a Honda Silverwing Maxi Scooter too but they couldn't afford it !!?!?!?!!?! $@#()*@)(#*$
Brian
09-07-07, 08:22 AM
A good portion of Americans refuse to live within their means, which is very sad. I love cars just as much as I love bicycles and cameras and other toys. But I would never spend more than I could afford to.
dynodonn
09-07-07, 08:54 AM
No money down leaves them with a payment of close to $800/month. I'd guess insurance would have to run another $200/month, but it could be much more or even less. Factor in fuel, and that's got to be 1/2 their take home pay. Not a big deal if you live at home with mum and dad, but bad math at any rate.
$800 a month for a car payment is still difficult for me to comprehend, that's well over double of what my monthly mortgage payments were.
$800 a month for a car payment is still difficult for me to comprehend, that's well over double of what my monthly mortgage payments were.
Brian
09-07-07, 09:04 AM
$800 a month for a car payment is still difficult for me to comprehend, that's well over double of what my monthly mortgage payments were.
Kids living at home get into this kind of trouble all the time. Of course, when I worked at a VW/Porsche/Audi dealer, two of the kids there drove $60k plus cars. Ego issues. They teased about my Scion. My paid for Scion. My paid for Scion that cost me less per year in gas/insurance than they paid per month for their car payment.
Kids living at home get into this kind of trouble all the time. Of course, when I worked at a VW/Porsche/Audi dealer, two of the kids there drove $60k plus cars. Ego issues. They teased about my Scion. My paid for Scion. My paid for Scion that cost me less per year in gas/insurance than they paid per month for their car payment.
Artkansas
09-07-07, 09:22 AM
No money down leaves them with a payment of close to $800/month. Not a big deal if you live at home with mum and dad, but bad math at any rate.
Mom and Dad should take the hint that if you can afford a think about buying a new Tahoe, that perhaps its time you were on your own.
Mom and Dad should take the hint that if you can afford a think about buying a new Tahoe, that perhaps its time you were on your own.
eofelis
09-07-07, 09:33 AM
Every car we've ever bought has been used and paid for in full before leaving the lot. It keeps things simple.
In 1999 I spent $5000 cash for a 1991 Subaru with 113k on it. I'm still driving it, occasionally. It has 161k on it now. Insurance is $250/yr. Gas varies, I drive it around town once a week or so and sometimes take it out of town. It may have an oil consumption issue going on, but I haven't driven it enough lately to tell. But I think I can nurse it along a few more years. I'll eventually replace it with another $5000 Subaru.
My SO got a 12 yo Toyota truck for $5000 a year or so ago. It has 100k on it and he'll probably get another 100k out of it.
I can't think of anything I want bad enough to make payments on.
In 1999 I spent $5000 cash for a 1991 Subaru with 113k on it. I'm still driving it, occasionally. It has 161k on it now. Insurance is $250/yr. Gas varies, I drive it around town once a week or so and sometimes take it out of town. It may have an oil consumption issue going on, but I haven't driven it enough lately to tell. But I think I can nurse it along a few more years. I'll eventually replace it with another $5000 Subaru.
My SO got a 12 yo Toyota truck for $5000 a year or so ago. It has 100k on it and he'll probably get another 100k out of it.
I can't think of anything I want bad enough to make payments on.
same time
09-07-07, 10:00 AM
Those credit facts on page one make my skin crawl. I can't believe people are rolling unpaid old car loans into new ones when they buy a new car. And taking out a five year loan ON A CAR? Something that is guaranteed to depreciate in value? These things indicate that people do not understand the basic concept of a loan.
We need a license to drive a car, maybe we should need a license to apply for credit, too.
We need a license to drive a car, maybe we should need a license to apply for credit, too.
dynodonn
09-07-07, 11:12 AM
I recently sent a car I had for 20 years , which I bought used, to the auto boneyard. Since it was going to need some major repairs, I decided to use the money that was going to repair it for home improvements and a new bike purchase. I figured with the initial purchase price, all the operating/maintenace costs over the 20 years, put it towards bike purchases, I would have a really nice fleet of bikes.
smurfy
09-07-07, 08:23 PM
13 months ago I bought a '95 Ford Aerostar minvan from a neighbor for $1,000 w/123k miles and no rust (those things are usually notorious for rust!). Only put 9k miles on it so far but the next 12 months it should be less than 5k additional miles (actually much less than 4k miles maybe since I'm moving much closer to work, grocery, etc.).
Roody
09-07-07, 08:31 PM
Back in the bad old days when I drove, my cars kept getting cheaper and cheaper. My last one cost $400 and was stolen! :D
Now I don't even spend $400 on a bike, since I buy used ones. Most of the time I spend less than $200 and get a great vehicle for city gritty riding.
Now I don't even spend $400 on a bike, since I buy used ones. Most of the time I spend less than $200 and get a great vehicle for city gritty riding.
Bushman
09-07-07, 10:11 PM
In 1999 I spent $5000 cash for a 1991 Subaru with 113k on it. I'm still driving it, occasionally. It has 161k on it now. Insurance is $250/yr. Gas varies, I drive it around town once a week or so and sometimes take it out of town. It may have an oil consumption issue going on, but I haven't driven it enough lately to tell. But I think I can nurse it along a few more years. I'll eventually replace it with another $5000 Subaru.
My SO got a 12 yo Toyota truck for $5000 a year or so ago. It has 100k on it and he'll probably get another 100k out of it.
I can't think of anything I want bad enough to make payments on.
same here. I got my truck in 1990,(Bday from dad), and its still going strong, 17 years later. I spent a whopping $25 CDN a month fuel, and with my very high insurance Discount i only pay $80 a month for insurance (everything, including 6 million third party liability). I have never understood why people would keep getting new cars every year like some of my friends. They are in so much debt.
My SO got a 12 yo Toyota truck for $5000 a year or so ago. It has 100k on it and he'll probably get another 100k out of it.
I can't think of anything I want bad enough to make payments on.
same here. I got my truck in 1990,(Bday from dad), and its still going strong, 17 years later. I spent a whopping $25 CDN a month fuel, and with my very high insurance Discount i only pay $80 a month for insurance (everything, including 6 million third party liability). I have never understood why people would keep getting new cars every year like some of my friends. They are in so much debt.
funrover
09-07-07, 10:19 PM
I have 3 cars.... they cost less than my bikes do!!! I guess I wasn't in the statistics for this BS!
Brian
09-07-07, 10:25 PM
I have 3 cars.... they cost less than my bikes do!!! I guess I wasn't in the statistics for this BS!
When we built our tandem in Australia, it set us back about $9k. Almost what we paid for our car.
When we built our tandem in Australia, it set us back about $9k. Almost what we paid for our car.
bhtooefr
09-08-07, 05:18 AM
I paid $1200 for my Jetta, $500 for the Civic I bought to have something to drive to work while I built the Jetta's replacement up (I had wrecked the Jetta,) and $150 for the Golf that ended up being my Jetta's replacement (and I used mainly parts off the Jetta to do repairs on it.)
Right now, I spend over $1200/yr on insurance (being 19 with an at fault accident on the record FTL - and I'm on minimum coverage,) between $160 and $220/mo on fuel (it comes out to roughly $2100/yr,) and about $50/mo on repairs/maintenance (so $600/yr - that number might be low, though.)
That means I'm paying about $3900/yr to drive, not counting purchase price of the Golf. Counting that, it comes to $4050. Counting purchase price of the Jetta that donated many parts to the Golf, it comes to $5250.
I'll be getting an apartment, for $300/mo, about $200/mo worth of utilities (and that number may be high,) and riding my bike. I'll be spending about $20/mo on fuel for the car, less on insurance, and much less on maintenance, too. I don't come out ahead FINANCIALLY, but I do have much less commute time (2.4 miles on a bike is much quicker than 40 miles in a car,) and I'll be in better shape.
Of course... I have a close friend that ended up needing a car, got a new car (so she could know that it was taken care of properly from the start, and it would have a warranty,) got badly upsold by the dealer, but it was OK... but then she got pregnant, had the kid, and now she can't afford to maintain it. (Yes, she sees the irony in this situation.)
Funny side note, her boyfriend is going to have to start bike commuting, because he got caught driving under suspension (and the reason he was under suspension? He didn't have insurance. You simply don't DO that in Ohio - go to New Hampshire if you're going to do that...)
Right now, I spend over $1200/yr on insurance (being 19 with an at fault accident on the record FTL - and I'm on minimum coverage,) between $160 and $220/mo on fuel (it comes out to roughly $2100/yr,) and about $50/mo on repairs/maintenance (so $600/yr - that number might be low, though.)
That means I'm paying about $3900/yr to drive, not counting purchase price of the Golf. Counting that, it comes to $4050. Counting purchase price of the Jetta that donated many parts to the Golf, it comes to $5250.
I'll be getting an apartment, for $300/mo, about $200/mo worth of utilities (and that number may be high,) and riding my bike. I'll be spending about $20/mo on fuel for the car, less on insurance, and much less on maintenance, too. I don't come out ahead FINANCIALLY, but I do have much less commute time (2.4 miles on a bike is much quicker than 40 miles in a car,) and I'll be in better shape.
Of course... I have a close friend that ended up needing a car, got a new car (so she could know that it was taken care of properly from the start, and it would have a warranty,) got badly upsold by the dealer, but it was OK... but then she got pregnant, had the kid, and now she can't afford to maintain it. (Yes, she sees the irony in this situation.)
Funny side note, her boyfriend is going to have to start bike commuting, because he got caught driving under suspension (and the reason he was under suspension? He didn't have insurance. You simply don't DO that in Ohio - go to New Hampshire if you're going to do that...)
Dahon.Steve
09-10-07, 10:51 AM
I read somewhere this little factoid:
average new Tahoe seeling price: $42,000
Average household income of average new Tahoe buyer: $40,000
wish i could find the source...
That's insanity.
In the New York Metro, a 40K salary is barely a living wage. I know several people who can't afford cars because they are making 40K a year! What do these folks eat for dinner after buying such an expensive car? Cat Food?
average new Tahoe seeling price: $42,000
Average household income of average new Tahoe buyer: $40,000
wish i could find the source...
That's insanity.
In the New York Metro, a 40K salary is barely a living wage. I know several people who can't afford cars because they are making 40K a year! What do these folks eat for dinner after buying such an expensive car? Cat Food?
Dahon.Steve
09-10-07, 11:05 AM
I work in a bike shop and yesterday I had a customer worried about an extra 30 bucks for a part he needed. He decided to skip out on it and put his bike in the back of his truck. A brand new GM truck. At least $30,000. I don't get it, I really don't.
It's quite possible he didn't have $30.00 bucks for the part. The GM truck is owned by the bank and after paying for the monthly payments and high insurance, there's not much left for anything else.
It's quite possible he didn't have $30.00 bucks for the part. The GM truck is owned by the bank and after paying for the monthly payments and high insurance, there's not much left for anything else.
Roody
09-10-07, 11:09 AM
That's insanity.
In the New York Metro, a 40K salary is barely a living wage. I know several people who can't afford cars because they are making 40K a year! What do these folks eat for dinner after buying such an expensive car? Cat Food?
Well, if their car payments are so high they can't afford cat food, I guess they eat the cat. :eek:
It is so easy for a low-income family to spend half their income on transportation, sometimes even more than half. My friend on disability, with young kids, just turned in her van for a newer one from the same dealer. There was no down payment, and monthly payments were lower for the newer van. But it's almost like she's renting the vehicle from Rent-A-Center. She never pays off the vehicle, just turns it in after a couple years, and the dealer resells the old van to somebody else who's even poorer than she is. The dealers make their big profits on the interest payments.
Why does my friend do this? Partially because she doesn't fully understand the financial principles that keep her poor and make the dealer rich. But also, it's pretty much impossible for her to come up with, say, $1500 cash to buy a reliable used car outright. That would save her a fortune on interest payments, but she's illiquid, as they say.
In the New York Metro, a 40K salary is barely a living wage. I know several people who can't afford cars because they are making 40K a year! What do these folks eat for dinner after buying such an expensive car? Cat Food?
Well, if their car payments are so high they can't afford cat food, I guess they eat the cat. :eek:
It is so easy for a low-income family to spend half their income on transportation, sometimes even more than half. My friend on disability, with young kids, just turned in her van for a newer one from the same dealer. There was no down payment, and monthly payments were lower for the newer van. But it's almost like she's renting the vehicle from Rent-A-Center. She never pays off the vehicle, just turns it in after a couple years, and the dealer resells the old van to somebody else who's even poorer than she is. The dealers make their big profits on the interest payments.
Why does my friend do this? Partially because she doesn't fully understand the financial principles that keep her poor and make the dealer rich. But also, it's pretty much impossible for her to come up with, say, $1500 cash to buy a reliable used car outright. That would save her a fortune on interest payments, but she's illiquid, as they say.
cadillacmike68
09-13-07, 11:01 PM
That's insanity.
In the New York Metro, a 40K salary is barely a living wage. I know several people who can't afford cars because they are making 40K a year! What do these folks eat for dinner after buying such an expensive car? Cat Food?
Dog food is progbably cheaper. You want to read the horror stories - go to edmunds.com and look at their forums - page after page of dolts who insist that they need to get a new / newer car even while they owe twice - or more- than what they have is worth.
In the New York Metro, a 40K salary is barely a living wage. I know several people who can't afford cars because they are making 40K a year! What do these folks eat for dinner after buying such an expensive car? Cat Food?
Dog food is progbably cheaper. You want to read the horror stories - go to edmunds.com and look at their forums - page after page of dolts who insist that they need to get a new / newer car even while they owe twice - or more- than what they have is worth.
syn0n
09-13-07, 11:26 PM
I think the ego thing with cars is what makes people get in over their heads. I had a 1992 Buick Century for a long time, I was the 6th owner of that abused car and it had well over 150k on the clock. I paid $400 for it, and got some decent mileage out of it before the tranny failed. It was ugly and slow but it did the job of going from A to B.
Because of that good choice, I didn't end up accumulating any car debt early on and now I have a decent and completely paid off '04 Elantra. Although I do have plans to buy a sports car of some sort, as I save towards that goal, I keep in mind that I want to be able to put at least half down. I've seen my friends make mistakes by buying cars they can't afford and it really is sad to see. I don't know how you can be happy with flashy material things if you are so strapped for cash that you can't really even enjoy them. But I think that's the same across the board really. People with expensive cellphones, iPods, TV's and game systems, computers, etc. It's a cultural things that goes beyond cars, but cars obviously are the things that can sink people.
Because of that good choice, I didn't end up accumulating any car debt early on and now I have a decent and completely paid off '04 Elantra. Although I do have plans to buy a sports car of some sort, as I save towards that goal, I keep in mind that I want to be able to put at least half down. I've seen my friends make mistakes by buying cars they can't afford and it really is sad to see. I don't know how you can be happy with flashy material things if you are so strapped for cash that you can't really even enjoy them. But I think that's the same across the board really. People with expensive cellphones, iPods, TV's and game systems, computers, etc. It's a cultural things that goes beyond cars, but cars obviously are the things that can sink people.