Advocacy & Safety - What am I doing wrong? (rant)

I have had two altercations with drivers in as many days. The first I was riding to the right in the right lane on a major 4 lane artery. The early morning traffic isn't non stop but comes in waves, with spaces of calm between. During one of these "waves" a work truck pulled up on my rear and lays on his horn. I keep to the right (not in the gutter though) and motion him to pass. After some more honking he passes with a vengeance, very close and honking again. As luck would have it I caught up to him at the next light and asked "What's the problem?" A short argument ensued where he said I should not be on the road during morning rush hour. I replied that I was cycling legally and that he needs to be very careful around cyclists. and give us a minimum of 3 foot clearance. By now the light had changed and he roared off shouting "NO WAY!"

Then this morning on another 4 lane artery I am close passed by a Ford 350 diesel PU. .The driver gets caught at the next light and is in the far right lane which is a mandatory right turn with signs and arrows and all that stuff there. (Sorry Arlo). There is a long line waiting so I filter up between cars to the light as I usually do and as I pass his truck he guns the engine and pulls slightly across the line to either try and scare me or hit me. I shout "watch it!" and continue to the front, knowing all the cars behind and to my right are turning right.

The light changes and I stand in the pedals to cross and gain the empty right hand lane when the truck doesn't turn right but comes across the intersection and almost clips me! Honking all the while.

By this time I'm p"ed off and flip him the bird, making sure he knows what I mean. He starts slowing in traffic like it's show down time but it's rush hour he can't really stop. I got the first 3 numbers of his license plate but he decides not to stop and takes off.

2x, 2 days. I'm getting a bad taste.

Other than being on the road--that's a joke--I don't see that you did anything terribly wrong (personally, I don't usually filter, but that's just me). It'd be easy to make generalizations about truck drivers and all that, but I think it's safer to say both of the people you encountered were simply in a rush, slightly raging, and have no concern what "the law" says. Sadly, we all run into them from time to time.

You are doing nothing wrong. I get that here in Miami about every other time I ride my bike.

I've come to realise that there is a large group of drivers that just hate bicyclists. They know what the law is, but don't care, and just believe tha bicycles shouldn't be on the road.

About the only thing you can do is just ride so they can't hurt you, which for me usually means taking the lane so they have to make a wide pass, so that even if they buzz you (which they will), you at least have room to your right to be able to avoid them.

Try not to get too worked up about it. In every place there are going to be people like that. Best you can do is keep your position.

>>> cagers suck <<<

I don't want to hijack your thread, Hoz, but I've been asking myself the same question lately: what am I doing wrong?

There's a short stretch of road that I commute on daily with one shoulderless lane in each direction, a double-yellow line dividing them. If I stay to the far right, I get squeezed and buzzed. The more aggressive I get taking the lane, the more I get squeezed and buzzed, but with a liberal sprinkling of honks and hand guestures.

I'm going to speak with the local police about their advice on this particular stretch. It's strange, because during all other portions of my commute I'm treated with respect and caution.



The cops are going to tell you what they told me the last time I complained to them about a similar situation .....

" find another path that is less traveled by cars " .......


Yeah, thanks a lot a$ $ hole.

The surest way to ensure every motorist is an @$$hole is to generalize. So you met one jerk that morning out of how many dozens (or perhaps hundreds) of cars?

As cyclists in traffic, we stand out more and our posture, mood, and attitude are more apparent than all of the cars around us. If you feel/act like a victim (or like Mad Max), your body gives off dozens of little signals that invite overbearing (or combative) treatment.

And also the work truck guy was probably frustrated because he'd been dealing with rude, innattentive drivers all morning before running into you. And since he was driving a worktruck in Southern Cal, he almost certainly felt like one little persecuted blue-collar fish in a sea of white-collar Lexuses and LandRovers.

And what modes of response do motorists have when they are mistreated and feel a lack of control? Very few options to retaliate against vehicular transgressors... ram them? Then along Hoz who is accessible... voila.

I'm not suggesting that you did anything wrong, but if you can rehearse biting-your-tongue next time and just wave and say "Sorry!" with a smile, it will either REALLY infuriate him (some people can't stand that they're unable to get your goat) OR he might see you (and all cyclists) in a different light.

I'm no saint, and I've succumbed to bird-flipping and even spitting. But I felt horrible afterward. OTOH, when I was able to smile and wave, I felt like I was completely in command. You aren't apologizing for anything you've done; just sorry that his day is obviously off to a bad start.
Good luck and let us know if you try it.
-CCinC

The surest way to ensure every motorist is an @$$hole is to generalize. So you met one jerk that morning out of how many dozens (or perhaps hundreds) of cars?

As cyclists in traffic, we stand out more and our posture, mood, and attitude are more apparent than all of the cars around us. If you feel/act like a victim (or like Mad Max), your body gives off dozens of little signals that invite overbearing (or combative) treatment.

And also the work truck guy was probably frustrated because he'd been dealing with rude, innattentive drivers all morning before running into you. And since he was driving a worktruck in Southern Cal, he almost certainly felt like one little persecuted blue-collar fish in a sea of white-collar Lexuses and LandRovers.

And what modes of response do motorists have when they are mistreated and feel a lack of control? Very few options to retaliate against vehicular transgressors... ram them? Then along Hoz who is accessible... voila.

I'm not suggesting that you did anything wrong, but if you can rehearse biting-your-tongue next time and just wave and say "Sorry!" with a smile, it will either REALLY infuriate him (some people can't stand that they're unable to get your goat) OR he might see you (and all cyclists) in a different light.

I'm no saint, and I've succumbed to bird-flipping and even spitting. But I felt horrible afterward. OTOH, when I was able to smile and wave, I felt like I was completely in command. You aren't apologizing for anything you've done; just sorry that his day is obviously off to a bad start.
Good luck and let us know if you try it.
-CCinC

I'm actually willing to agree with you on this, if only because I've tried this over the past week or so and found that it actually works! Kill them with kindness, and you automatically have the upper hand.

That being said, at every crash I've had involving a motorist, where it was absolutely certain that I was not at fault, and they denied it, I have shown what true anger can be, both verbally and, later on, in the court system, legally...

Sometimes you just get a few bad ones in a row. I try not to get bent out of shape about it, and I try to notice when I've gotten some nice drivers. Like lately, I've had the rare situation of more drivers stopping than not at the MUP crossings, and people slowing down to let me in when I signal to get in the left hand lane.

Actually, the only *really* bad situation I had lately was a borderline psychotic person who I encountered when I was driving. It's not just cyclists, people like that will start crap with drivers too.

I don't want to hijack your thread, Hoz, but I've been asking myself the same question lately: what am I doing wrong?

There's a short stretch of road that I commute on daily with one shoulderless lane in each direction, a double-yellow line dividing them. If I stay to the far right, I get squeezed and buzzed. The more aggressive I get taking the lane, the more I get squeezed and buzzed, but with a liberal sprinkling of honks and hand guestures.

I'm going to speak with the local police about their advice on this particular stretch. It's strange, because during all other portions of my commute I'm treated with respect and caution.
I understand that you get squeezed and buzzed when you stay to the far right. I don't understand why you get more squeezed and buzzed if you control the lane.

You'll probably get better advice trying to find a local LCI (see http://bikeleague.org/programs/education/course_schedule.php) than asking the police for advice.

What works for me is using a mirror and communicating with drivers behind me. By having a mirror I can see them coming and let them know that I know they're there, I'm staying where I am, and I know what I'm doing. This is accomplished by subtle but very effective minor changes in lateral position, judicious use of the left arm slow/stop signal, and looking back, sometimes with a nod and/or smile. It's an art... you try different combinations at different times and get a feel for what works when. But the key is rearward situational awareness through use of a mirror. Other LCIs may provide different advice.

HH

I understand that you get squeezed and buzzed when you stay to the far right. I don't understand why you get more squeezed and buzzed if you control the lane.

...

I can explain it, helemt head....you don't ride alone a lot, and correspondingly don't experience poor driver etiquitte while assertively holding the lane at pinch points like dietrologica mentions.

To hoz, and the rest of the respondents that DO occasionally experience poor driver behavior while fully taking the lane, you know it happens to the best of us, REGARDLESS of ones hand signals or asswaggles.

Sometimes, using the slow hand signal brings on a ragin'. riding in ones' imaginary constructs might make it difficult to comprehend, but this stuff happens sometimes - because some cagers are just downright hostile to bicyclists- despite lane position or etc. etc.

to HOZ, you need to get thicker skin. Practice yelling "learn the rules of the road" as loud as possible. get rude back. HH's protestations of asswaggles and pretending these situations don't occur with proper 'lane position and communication' is illusionary and delusional.

Lately, when drivers treat me as described by the OP, I don't confront them verbally, but, if I catch up to them, make a bit of a production of pulling out my camera cell-phone and snapping a pic of their car and license plate. Most of the time, they quickly get the 'picture' and most don't bother me after that.

Fortunately, for me, the rude driver is the exception rather than the rule these days.

Caruso

I can explain it, helemt head....you don't ride alone a lot, and correspondingly don't experience poor driver etiquitte while assertively holding the lane at pinch points like dietrologica mentions.

To hoz, and the rest of the respondents that DO occasionally experience poor driver behavior while fully taking the lane, you know it happens to the best of us, REGARDLESS of ones hand signals or asswaggles.

Sometimes, using the slow hand signal brings on a ragin'. riding in ones' imaginary constructs might make it difficult to comprehend, but this stuff happens sometimes - because some cagers are just downright hostile to bicyclists- despite lane position or etc. etc.

to HOZ, you need to get thicker skin. Practice yelling "learn the rules of the road" as loud as possible. get rude back. HH's protestations of asswaggles and pretending these situations don't occur with proper 'lane position and communication' is illusionary and delusional.
I don't know what Bek is talking about, nor does he. Most of my mileage, and all of my commute time mileage, is solo.

See the video clips at the following website for examples of what I'm talking about:

http://www.cyclistview.com

This one is a good example:

http://www.cyclistview.com/laneposition.htm

Some motorists just do not want to follow a bicyclist and no matter where you place yourself in the lane, will pass regardless of how dangerous it is.

"mileage" sounds like you're muddling your biking with driving your car, HH.

last year you talked about not commuting by bike regularily, and how most of your mileage was from the weekend peloton ride, head. twice a week, often with another cyclist on pleasure rides was how I recall you describing an 'average' HH bike week.

how you can't understand a commonplace driver/biker interaction, regardless of ones' lane position or handwaving or buttwaggles, is easily explainable- you don't experience what virtually every other bicyclist experiences......

A friend of mine told be his theory... most drivers are afraid that they'll hit you, and those that yell and honk the loudest are the ones that are the most afraid (since they are the most incompetent drivers). Could be he's right. Another friend told me he responds to the inevitable yells/honks by blowing them a kiss. I haven't tried it yet but I am going to.

Some motorists just do not want to follow a bicyclist and no matter where you place yourself in the lane, will pass regardless of how dangerous it is.
No doubt.

The issue is whether they do it more or less when a cyclist is far right in a narrow lane or when he is controlling a narrow lane. In my experience, almost all drivers pass too closely when riding far right in a narrow lane, and I'm rarely (not never) buzzed when controlling a narrow lane, especially when I'm controlling the situation by maintaining rearward situational awareness by using a mirror.

"mileage" sounds like you're muddling your biking with driving your car, HH.

last year you talked about not commuting by bike regularily, and how most of your mileage was from the weekend peloton ride, head. twice a week, often with another cyclist on pleasure rides was how I recall you describing an 'average' HH bike week.

how you can't understand a commonplace driver/biker interaction, regardless of ones' lane position or handwaving or buttwaggles, is easily explainable- you don't experience what virtually every other bicyclist experiences......
I did ride with the peloton on Labor Day, but it has been months that I've done that, Bek. You don't know what you're talking about, but that doesn't stop you.

That being said, at every crash I've had involving a motorist, where it was absolutely certain that I was not at fault, and they denied it, I have shown what true anger can be, both verbally and, later on, in the court system, legally...

At every crash? And you are 23 years old. How many crashes have you had? Why not get it off your chest and on to your keyboard and tell us what true anger accomplished.

There's a short stretch of road that I commute on daily with one shoulderless lane in each direction, a double-yellow line dividing them. If I stay to the far right, I get squeezed and buzzed. The more aggressive I get taking the lane, the more I get squeezed and buzzed, but with a liberal sprinkling of honks and hand guestures.

What's the most "aggressive" you get taking the lane? I've found that using the right tire track can often be just as bad as staying a foot from the road edge (although sometimes those are one and the same). My lane position is an all or nothing deal. I'm either dead center in the lane or I'm not in the lane at all. If a motorist will have to put their tires over the centerline or lane line on the road in order to pass me at a safe distance (determined by speed or traffic level), I'm in the center of the lane making it absolutely clear that I am do not want anyone else in my lane with me. I so rarely get close passed that I have to believe that I must be doing something right :)

If I stay to the far right, I get squeezed and buzzed. The more aggressive I get taking the lane, the more I get squeezed and buzzed, but with a liberal sprinkling of honks and hand guestures.
I'm shocked. Who could have foreseen that riding a bicycle in the middle of the lane and blocking traffic would upset motorists? We may have to rethink the whole "VC" paradigm... :roflmao:

I have had two altercations with drivers in as many days.

People can be dicks, especially at rush hour, comes with the territory. HTFU.

What's the most "aggressive" you get taking the lane? I've found that using the right tire track can often be just as bad as staying a foot from the road edge (although sometimes those are one and the same). My lane position is an all or nothing deal. I'm either dead center in the lane or I'm not in the lane at all. If a motorist will have to put their tires over the centerline or lane line on the road in order to pass me at a safe distance (determined by speed or traffic level), I'm in the center of the lane making it absolutely clear that I am do not want anyone else in my lane with me. I so rarely get close passed that I have to believe that I must be doing something right :)I'm shocked. Who could have foreseen that riding a bicycle in the middle of the lane and blocking traffic would upset motorists? We may have to rethink the whole "VC" paradigm... :roflmao:

Six Jours, you still don't get it, totally discounting the subtle but very significant difference between riding in the right tire track and riding between the left and right tire tracks, which Joe obviously understands. Quite apparently Joe's ability to get to the heart of the matters comes from his experience of riding in the center of the lane, which Six Jours and dietrologia quite apparently lack (but it doesn't keep them from commenting on the technique as if they're experienced experts).


I think you're right, joejack, as I usually ride in the right tire track, so I'm obviously not being aggressive enough in my lane positioning to prevent close passes.

I guess I'm riding with the following graph in mind, which seems pretty accurate on this stretch of road. I guess I'm trying to figure out which is worse: making drivers angry and having to deal with their rage vs. risking a clip.

Your lack of experience (with riding centered in the narrow lane the way JJ and I do) biases you to assume that incidence and intensity of road rage is directly proportional to distance from curb.

My experience tells me the distribution is more like this:
54007

Quite apparently Joe's ability to get to the heart of the matters comes from his experience of riding in the center of the lane, which Six Jours and dietrologia quite apparently lack (but it doesn't keep them from commenting on the technique as if they're experienced experts).


Your lack of experience (with riding centered in the narrow lane the way JJ and I do) biases you to assume that incidence and intensity of road rage is directly proportional to distance from curb.

My experience tells me the distribution is more like this:
54007

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/lolup.gif



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/ha.gif

Woah, man... take it easy. I've never claimed to be an expert on this forum; please don't mischaracterize me this way.

I've posted in this thread, "What am I doing wrong," because I realize that I'm doing something wrong and I'm asking for advice. I'm very aware that I'm pretty inexperienced -- that's why I frequent this forum -- to educate myself, not to be insulted, so I would ask, politely, that you stop from doing so.
Point taken. I was way out of line. I apologize. I allowed my sentiments about Six Jours to spill out on you. That's not fair.

Hoz, what city/town/locality is this?

As near as I can tell, you did nothing wrong. You're simply running into that group that will never accept the bike as a legitimate transportation means. They simply have to be made to understand that the law is not something that is offered to them as a choice, and they did, in fact, agree to all the terms when they signed their licenses. If mister "no way!" had a problem with any of this, he should not have signed the license.

My limited experience tells me the distribution is more like this:
54007

There, fixed that for ya.

HH, that graph is hilarious! such an imagination!

you don't have a lock on dispelling driver anger by lane position, dude, despite your hand waving-

how and why you claim you don't expericence driver harassment like Noisebeam, Genec, Chipcom, myself, or any of the regular posters to this forum that actually ride our bikes daily seems indicative of something, and it isn't your 'superior' bicycling skills, parttimer.


bicyclists encounter drivers disrespectful of bicyclists, regardless of lane position or "communication" skills, Head. That graph IS hilarious though! such an imagination!

Myself, I ride 2-3 feet from the edge of the lane (assuming that there isn't a door zone), watching my mirror. If a car comes up behind and I feel that it's safe for them to pass within the lane, I'll move over to next to the gutter. If I don't feel it's safe, I'll take the lane, and make them change lanes to pass.

I am in Indianapolis, Indiana, corn country.

Thx for all the responses. I am learning. I like riding on the streets but don't want to die doing it. Heck, I don't even what to fight, I'm a lover. But there isn't a day goes by some "motorist" does something that threatens my safety. Whether it's a close pass or outright hostility.

BTW, I was not generalizing by mentioning work truck or PU truck, that's what they were. If it had been a BMW or a beater I would have mentioned those also. I drive a Ford 250 cargo van myself.

I don't know if filtering is legal in Indiana. I use to live in California, where it's legal. I can't find anything on the net specifically for Indiana, our bicycle laws are really dismal.

Myself, I ride 2-3 feet from the edge of the lane (assuming that there isn't a door zone), watching my mirror. If a car comes up behind and I feel that it's safe for them to pass within the lane, I'll move over to next to the gutter. If I don't feel it's safe, I'll take the lane, and make them change lanes to pass.

That's how I ride...sure, you get some H&D from idiots at times who want to pass no matter if it's safe or not, but you have to deal with idiots no matter where you ride or what type of vehicle you are operating. Job one is your safety, not someone else's convenience.

I don't know if filtering is legal in Indiana. I use to live in California, where it's legal. I can't find anything on the net specifically for Indiana, our bicycle laws are really dismal.

As a general rule, I tend to avoid filtering, but there are times when it is safe or even necessary to do so. You gotta make your decisions based on the conditions at the time. Again, your safety is job one, so when you are looking at your options be honest with yourself whether filtering is the safe thing to do...or just a way to satisfy your convenience or impatience.

HH, that graph is hilarious! such an imagination!

you don't have a lock on dispelling driver anger by lane position, dude, despite your hand waving-

how and why you claim you don't expericence driver harassment like Noisebeam, Genec, Chipcom, myself, or any of the regular posters to this forum that actually ride our bikes daily seems indicative of something, and it isn't your 'superior' bicycling skills, parttimer.


bicyclists encounter drivers disrespectful of bicyclists, regardless of lane position or "communication" skills, Head. That graph IS hilarious though! such an imagination!

I never claimed I don't experience driver harassment. I've just experimented with different styles, and have noticed that there are huge variations in the amount of harassment I get based on how, and particularly where in the lane, I am riding. What's most notable is how much difference there is in seemingly subtle changes. That's what I depicted in the graph. For example, as others have noted, on some roads riding in the right tire track is not nearly as effective as riding a few feet to the left of that. But someone who regularly rides only as far left as near the right tire track would never discover this. Even more subtle and effective is a well-timed slight adjustment of a foot at most to the left. By well-timed I mean using a mirror to maintain rearward situational awareness and knowing about when to make the adjustment to let a motorist approaching from behind that they will have to change lanes to pass.

I think you are confusing 'driver harassment' with 'close passing', HH. your fear of overtaking traffic is abundantly and overwhelmingly apparant in numerous other threads. "Driver harassment" is drivers honking incessantly, yelling out their windows, etc, and occurs MOST OFTEN when bicyclists are fully taking the lane.

...yeah, yeah, you're going to go on for pages now about your magic rearward situational awareness technique, handwaving and asswiggles, and I'm telling you you're not reinventing the wheel or training all the drivers in San Diego with your part time bike commute.

I even have some tricks up my sleeve we've discussed before that you can't even understand how and why to control a lane. Many of us put on a lot more miles than you, head, and experience driver harassment no matter where or how we ride. ...que up a Noisebeam "angry driver" video.


to the OP: some drivers take offense at bicyclists, regardless of where in the lane you ride. One technique I sometime use when faced with abundant honking or driver harassment and I'm feeling punky is slowing down safely, stopping in the lane, swivelling around and asking the driver "Is something wrong?" :D

Some people are mean, sociopathic individuals
especially when indulging in the buzz-and-run
anonimity a car affords them. Only you can determine
if 4 lane rush hour traffic is worth it to you to make
a statement in. Find an alternate route, ignore them
or jump on the sidewalk. ....I do whatever I have to
do to make my commute an easy one.
Guerrilla Cycling...Whatever is necassary.
Works very well for me.

As a general rule, I tend to avoid filtering, but there are times when it is safe or even necessary to do so. You gotta make your decisions based on the conditions at the time. Again, your safety is job one, so when you are looking at your options be honest with yourself whether filtering is the safe thing to do...or just a way to satisfy your convenience or impatience.

In the instance above I considered filtering safe and convenient for all concerned, including the motorists I am passing. I am filtering between a mandatory right hand turn lane and a lane going straight through the intersection. I take my place at the front to the right of the straight ahead lane and yet give the RT's plenty of room to make their turn. This guy decided he wanted to go straight even though he was in the RT lane. And he made his point by
trying to intimidate me with his truck, twice.

I think you are confusing 'driver harassment' with 'close passing', HH. your fear of overtaking traffic is abundantly and overwhelmingly apparant in numerous other threads. "Driver harassment" is drivers honking incessantly, yelling out their windows, etc, and occurs MOST OFTEN when bicyclists are fully taking the lane.

...yeah, yeah, you're going to go on for pages now about your magic rearward situational awareness technique, handwaving and asswiggles, and I'm telling you you're not reinventing the wheel or training all the drivers in San Diego with your part time bike commute.

I even have some tricks up my sleeve we've discussed before that you can't even understand how and why to control a lane. Many of us put on a lot more miles than you, head, and experience driver harassment no matter where or how we ride. ...que up a Noisebeam "angry driver" video.


to the OP: some drivers take offense at bicyclists, regardless of where in the lane you ride. One technique I sometime use when faced with abundant honking or driver harassment and I'm feeling punky is slowing down safely, stopping in the lane, swivelling around and asking the driver "Is something wrong?" :D

No, Bek, I'm not confusing the two. In narrow lanes, driver harassment as well as close passing is reduced by choosing an assertive lane position that makes it clear in no uncertain terms that overtaking motorists need to change lanes when they pass. I believe this is because when your position notifies them of your presence and signals to them what they have to do (change lanes to pass) well before they have to do it, they are much less likely to be annoyed by your presence by the time they reach you. It's when they're driving along approaching a cyclist who is far to the right and looks like he wants them to share the lane, but it turns out there is not enough room when they get closer, that it's most likely to get annoying.

Riding far to the right, even at the right tire track, is not being as visible and predictable as you can be, in a narrow lane. This is annoying to overtaking drivers, and understandably so. They probably don't fully realize why they are so annoyed, but at that point they just want you off the road because you are in the way. On the other hand, if you are further to the left where they can see for a long time before they reach that they are going to have to change lanes to pass, it's less likely to be a problem. They have plenty of time and room to pass, so they change lanes, and passing you is a non-issue.

If traffic volumes are such that changing lanes is not possible, then they do end up having to slow down, but at that point the center-biased cyclist who maintains good rearward situational awareness can make a friendly gesture by moving right to the position that a cyclist who defaults to the right would be in anyway, but the difference is that the center-biased cyclist has the opportunity to make this friendly gesture, while the right-biased cyclist does not (because he's just riding along in the secondary position oblivious, and obviously so, to the traffic behind him). In either case, whether they have time to change lanes or not, the center-biased cyclist is in a better position to be less annoying to overtaking motorists, and thus less likely to be harassed. Again, this is what my graph above depicts, and is consistent with my experience and that of every other cyclist I know who rides this way.

But, yes, there are some drivers who are going to be annoyed and will harass no matter what. There is nothing we can do about them, by definition. But I'm interested in reducing the incidence of harassment and close-passing. That's why I ride the way that I ride, and advocate this style for those who are also interested in reducing the incidence of harassment and close-passing.

Some people are mean, sociopathic individuals
especially when indulging in the buzz-and-run
anonimity a car affords them. Only you can determine
if 4 lane rush hour traffic is worth it to you to make
a statement in. Find an alternate route, ignore them
or jump on the sidewalk. ....I do whatever I have to
do to make my commute an easy one.
Guerrilla Cycling...Whatever is necassary.
Works very well for me.

What he said. Although i try and avoid footpaths whenever possible. Which means most of the time. I'm lucky that where i bike commute there are bike lanes on the climbs and 30mph limits on the steeeep downhills, which i can easily keep up to. I don't have a problem with cycle lanes, except when they're shared split pavements (sidewalks to you) where one side is for peds and the other side is for bikes, denoted by the colour of the path and the liberal smattering of cycle symbols. And people still walk on my bit, grr. We're also allowed to ride in the bus lane. Which annoys taxi drivers, but that's their problem...

Good brakes, tough tyres, know your route, ride fast brake hard and expect the unexpected. Some dirver will always hate cyclists. We're faster in urban traffic, we're healthier, and we're having as much fun as they're not, just getting to work. MAybe they should chill out and get bikes... :D

I really believe that an underlying cause of a lot of motorist harassment comes from a realization that if they hadn't noticed you when they did, they could have hit you, or could have come close to hitting you, and that makes them angry. Because it's an emotional response, it's not very rational, but there it is. That's why I believe conspicuity is so important. Getting their attention just a few seconds earlier - and there is no doubt in my mind that being in the center of the lane vs. even being in the right tire track can do that - can make the difference between them seeing you in time to avoid them going through a minor panic attack that can trigger the anger before they slow down or change lanes.

So a key to reducing driver harassment and close passing is getting their attention as best as you can and as early as you can. And by noticing you I mean not only seeing you, but realizing that some kind of adjustment - slowing down or changing lanes - has to be made. The cyclist off to the right does not convey this is clearly or as soon as the cyclist in the center of the lane. Conspicuous center-biased default lane positioning helps the cyclist get attention early, because it helps the motorist notice you earlier, before the point where he or she gets nervous and angry upon noticing you so close to hitting you.

And yes, just a few feet can make the difference, because the difference could mean noticing you just a few seconds earlier, and that can be enough.

I really believe that an underlying cause of a lot of motorist harassment comes from a realization that if they hadn't noticed you when they did, they could have hit you, or could have come close to hitting you, and that makes them angry.

That may be true, however it's my belief that the number one reason for anger and harassment from motorists is their perceived notion that a cyclist on the road is in their way and slowing them down.

i wonder if helmet head consistently chooses high viz clothing or runs a daytime visible blinkie to increase his noticibility to drivers on his couple of days a week of bike commuting. most dedicated commuters understand the value of visibility.

You people make me so thankful I don't encounter drivers that harass me regularly. If I did, I might be as bitter and miserable as you!

Truly, I have only encountered three drivers that seemed angry at me, and all of them on my commute. Two of them were somewhat my fault. One just decided to honk at me.

... but the difference is that the center-biased cyclist has the opportunity to make this friendly gesture, while the right-biased cyclist does not (because he's just riding along in the secondary position oblivious, and obviously so, to the traffic behind him).

You do talk a load of drivel sometimes, Serge.

That may be true, however it's my belief that the number one reason for anger and harassment from motorists is their perceived notion that a cyclist on the road is in their way and slowing them down.

+100

I really believe that an underlying cause of a lot of motorist harassment comes from a realization that if they hadn't noticed you when they did, they could have hit you, or could have come close to hitting you, and that makes them angry.
That may be true, however it's my belief that the number one reason for anger and harassment from motorists is their perceived notion that a cyclist on the road is in their way and slowing them down.
Perhaps, but by you being further left where they can notice, and therefore react, to you sooner, they are less likely to feel slowed down by your presence (because they usually have ample notice to know to change lanes). The less likely they are to feel slowed down, the less likely there will be a need for the number one reason for anger and harassment to manifest itself.

In those cases where they are unable to pass, seeing the centered cyclist look back, nod, maybe smile, and move aside further right, obviously as a friendly gesture towards them, the less likely they are to feel angered at the cyclist for having to slow down (again, it can't work with those who are going to be annoyed/angered no matter what you do, but there is nothing we can do about them, short of hopping onto the sidewalk, or staying home).

I hadn't done it in a while, but because of this thread I once again experimented with riding far right in a narrow lane yesterday, here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=32.806105,-117.253819&spn=0.017025,0.047379&z=15&om=0&layer=c&cbll=32.79748,-117.25576&cbp=2,162.97015477416616,0.5161621019922217,0). As always, the theory was quickly confirmed. Earlier, when I was riding centered, everyone was changing lanes to pass and there were no issues. When I started riding further right, drivers would try to squeeze in and pass too closely. There were no honks, but that's probably because I had my daughter in tow on the Burley Piccolo trailercycle.

i wonder if helmet head consistently chooses high viz clothing or runs a daytime visible blinkie to increase his noticibility to drivers on his couple of days a week of bike commuting. most dedicated commuters understand the value of visibility.
I always wear bright clothing, but there is not much support for the claim about the use of daytime visible blinkies during the day, at least not in this HeadPoll (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=342006). I've never seen a cyclist use one in usually bright and sunny San Diego. Gene, have you?

I always wear bright clothing, but there is not much support for the claim about the use of daytime visible blinkies during the day, at least not in this HeadPoll (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=342006). I've never seen a cyclist use one in usually bright and sunny San Diego. Gene, have you?

Yes I have. I have seen a few users here and there... The blinkies do help in tree lined or shady areas such as along North Torrey Pines where a cyclist can really disappear depending on their clothing... even the hi vis stuff loses it's punch when it is deep shade. I doubt the blinkies would do anything for you on a well lit street, but there hi vis really stands out.

I have also seen at least one cyclist with one of those left sticking flag things with a reflector on it. Motorists gave him a wide path, but he was "screwed" when it came to filtering forward and there are a couple places where taking advantage of being a "narrow vehicle" really comes in handy.

Yes I have. I have seen a few users here and there... The blinkies do help in tree lined or shady areas such as along North Torrey Pines where a cyclist can really disappear depending on their clothing... even the hi vis stuff loses it's punch when it is deep shade. I doubt the blinkies would do anything for you on a well lit street, but there hi vis really stands out.

I suppose it's quite possible that I've seen them but didn't notice them. Either way my point is made.

I think the only point you're making, Helmet Head, is you're an inattentive driver that doesn't notice bicyclists. most every bicyclist behind the wheel is hyper alert for bicyclists and their gear; not you, obviously.

BTW, the sun sets in San Diego around 4:45 in December.


to the OP; you are doing nothing wrong, don't let bad drivers like Helmet Head get to you.

I suppose it's quite possible that I've seen them but didn't notice them. Either way my point is made.

That only means when Helmet head is the driver in sunny san diego (and potentially surrounding areas) the use of your blinkie during the day may not help you.

However I think in Sunny Texas it helps and I have heard so from my coworkers and some other drivers including police. So well you know I guess it depends on your blinkie as well as your location too