Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - I can't ride my bike. :(

I've bee off bike for about 3 weeks now.

At first I was having the same problems as CainCado1 with the new Brooks. Numbness issues. While I was off the bike letting my dangly bits regain consciousness, I was also changing my handlebars out for the new trekking bars that I've wanted for a while.

Once I got them on I decided to only ride a few days after I updated my handlebars just to try them out (my normal commute to work 3 1/2 miles each way) and then give it a week break (from Brooks) and was on vacation last week.

Well, the days following those few commute rides to test the new handlebars, I was having some pretty bad pain in my upper back. I didn't necessarily jump to any conclusions about the new handlebars, just figured it was from sitting at desk pains (starting to get some repetitive stress pains bad). I figured it would work itself out over a few days or so.

It lasted until I got back to FL for vacation and was getting worse. So bad that I went to a doctor's walk-in clinic to get some muscle relaxers, etc... It hasn't really stopped, so I scheduled an appointment with my doctor here and she's prescribing physical therapy (which hasn't started yet).

I tried to go on a small ride on Monday (labor day) to test out my back (it had been feeling slightly better) to see if riding to work again might be in the cards. It was instant excruciating pain....it's definitely those new handlebars. I didn't even make it 1/2 mile.

I'm really depressed, not just about not riding but about the handlebars. I LOVE the way they feel. They seem like the perfect bar for the way I ride, but not if they cause pain. I was hoping that maybe an adjustment could help, but if this much pain was caused about 20 miles of riding on them, then I don't think a simple adjustment will help.


Any suggestions? First of all, I can't even get back on bike until I get my back in proper shape again (I'm thinking at least a few weeks of the physical therapy which hasn't started yet, maybe longer).

Do you think its possible an adjustment could be all I need for the new handlebars?

Can any bike shops do a fit to tell me this? Could a professional fit tell me what other handlebars might be best? I could go back to my old setup (drops and stock saddle) if I had to, but I feel like I'm unable to make some great upgrades that I *want*.

Help me....I need to get back on bike.

I wish I had help to offer... but you have my commiseration. Hope the weeks fly by till you're back in the saddle.

Any pics of the bars on the bike?

Here are the bars (REI):
http://media.rei.com/media/629508Prd.jpg

The bars on bike after completion in this thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=323962&highlight=hideously

Final Pic (as I completed it):
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/62/p8081035tc5.jpg

KT,
I would check for fit, maybe it is just an adjustment to the bars or stem length or angle. Or, just swap bars back, don't be a weenie and get back on the bike :) Just jokin, take care of your back....if it is muscular, once recovered, make sure you are stretching your hamstrings and strenthenin stomach muscles. I know it helps my back.
Take care
B

so did you have a flat bar before? and where do you typically rest your hands...I can see being really stretched out.

so did you have a flat bar before? and where do you typically rest your hands...I can see being really stretched out.

No I had drops before, but always stayed on the top/flat part. On these bars I was half on the flat part (end of stem) and half on front parts (front of stem). I think its the front part (when riding in more upright position) that is the problem. That's how I was riding the other day when it was excruciating and I couldn't go more than 1/2 mile.

hmm, seems like a fit issue but I am no expert.

Whatever you find out, you know to call me for any wrench work that needs done. Me, the girl, and the puppy will come over and I'll help with the bike, then we can BBQ.

hey, no fair, I have some bison burgers that need a grillin':)

hey, no fair, I have some bison burgers that need a grillin':)

I gots room for all. :)

You know, I could not help but notice that I've seen a few threads here on BF that talk about numbness that also include the discussion of wide touring types of Brooks saddles. No single saddle works for everybody folks. I can't ride on Brooks B17s either. I've had no issues at all with my Terry Liberator (not the gel one), and simply love my Specialized Alias 155mm (I really do have wide hip-bones - they measured me at the bike shop).

I've known some other guys that have had problems with both the wide Brooks type and the super narrow race saddles that have had better luck with split or center-channel saddles, especially the ones that allow the individual butt-pads to move independently, made by Fizik, Terry, Specialized, and even Performance (Forte). There are a bunch of articles out there about this. Here are some articles that I read while I was looking for a new seat.

http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bicycleseats.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1202941,00.html

http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200409/bicycle_seats_1.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Have fun out there!

FWIW, I've found a very slight off angle relative the top tube, depending on which direction your junk sets in the shorts helps a bit too.. I have the nose cocked slightly to the right to allow for my pants hang, if ya know what I mean ;)

Right now, the Brooks issue is 2nd. I have to figure out the issue with handlebars/back. That one is causing me to not be able to ride at all.

Once I can get back on bike, I can start to work the Brooks issue again.

Right now, the Brooks issue is 2nd. I have to figure out the issue with handlebars/back. That one is causing me to not be able to ride at all.

Once I can get back on bike, I can start to work the Brooks issue again.

It sounds to me like you're getting too stretched out on the new bars, KT. My 2¢;)

Might be worth doing some measuring between the old and new handle bars. I could see you being too stretched out using the front of the treking bars and maybe to hunched over using the back of the bars. Both of these can cause major back issues. Also are you possibly shifting further back or forward on the saddle to avoid the numbness issues ? You could be putting yourself into an odd form doing that.

Shog

I agree with Tom. If you are having problems with hands, back, and saddle, then you are probably too stretched out. You should experiment with pulling the bars in and up to find the right arrangement. I like mine where I don't slam my elbows with my knees (elbows just brush outside of knees), and up high enough so that I don't lean too hard on my hands (pedal mashing and back/stomach mostly hold up my shoulders, no stiff-arm - even in the drops). It took some for-to-aft AND up-and-down shifting to find a position that I could sit in all day. It took a month or so of playing with it on the wind trainer, and between rides to find my sweet spot.

These Brooks issues concern me. I was seriously considering a B-17 standard for my Mazama. :O

I don't see how it could be too stretched out as the back of the bars is the straight part through stem which must be the exact same straight as my previous bar. It may be a hunched over problem by using the front parts, although it doesn't feel that way. I am able to ride pretty much straight up poster using the front.

These Brooks issues concern me. I was seriously considering a B-17 standard for my Mazama. :O

Just be sure your ischium is measured to get the correct width, whether it be the standard or narrow and get it from Wallingford Bikes, they have a great return policy.....6 months :)

http://www.wallbike.com/

I agree it sounds like a stretching issue to me, only it's effecting the upper back versus the lower back. I agree that maybe you need to have the fit checked.

Okay here's my theory. The yellow part of the bars is to close to you and to low so in order to reach them you have to hunch over your upper back to get your hand down to them. If the bars where farther out, you could bend over at the lower back/waist like you should. You said it doesn't hurt to ride out on the red part by your brake levers?

Many people will tell Brooks riders to set the saddle slightly nose up. For ME that is a recipe for torture and raw skin on the perineum in short order . My saddle is set with the nose level and the back slightly high - very slightly high. Try it you might find it is the answer for you too.

Regarding the bars - no suggestions from here, I ride a flat bar bike with bar middles. But good luck getting it sorted out.

Okay here's my theory. The yellow part of the bars is to close to you and to low so in order to reach them you have to hunch over your upper back to get your hand down to them. If the bars where farther out, you could bend over at the lower back/waist like you should. You said it doesn't hurt to ride out on the red part by your brake levers?

Well, I only put about 20 miles on it, and in that 20 miles I didn't "think" anything felt to be problematic. But my "gut" feeling tells me the same thing you are saying. The problem is that I don't think they make longer stems. I can't put it out anymore, other than to flip the bars over (which may be what I try when I'm able to ride again). If I put the inner part now on the extreme outer part, which will leave the brake part where it is.

.02.... as others have noted, it sounds like you are getting too stretched out when you ride the front part and too cramped when you ride the back part.... it really sounds like a trip to the LBS for a fit check, or just to have one of the folks there observe you on the bike, is in order.

also.... stretching! do you do any kind of stretching when you are off the bike? learn some good core, back and leg stretches... you will be amazed... AMAZED... at how much that will help.

don't worry about the brooks too much, that may well be an issue of breaking in the saddle. if not, time will tell, but hang in there. try the various saddle positions indicated above... myself, it took about 400 miles to break in my B-17. now, it is the most comfortable saddle i have. during that month, i went through several positions to get it tweaked... i found that for me, nose up ever so slightly, is perfect. i set it level, then rotated it one "click" nose up on a specialized "micro" adjust post.

good luck, keep us posted,

be well,

jim

.02.... as others have noted, it sounds like you are getting too stretched out when you ride the front part and too cramped when you ride the back part.... it really sounds like a trip to the LBS for a fit check, or just to have one of the folks there observe you on the bike, is in order.

also.... stretching! do you do any kind of stretching when you are off the bike? learn some good core, back and leg stretches... you will be amazed... AMAZED... at how much that will help.

don't worry about the brooks too much, that may well be an issue of breaking in the saddle. if not, time will tell, but hang in there. try the various saddle positions indicated above... myself, it took about 400 miles to break in my B-17. now, it is the most comfortable saddle i have. during that month, i went through several positions to get it tweaked... i found that for me, nose up ever so slightly, is perfect. i set it level, then rotated it one "click" nose up on a specialized "micro" adjust post.

good luck, keep us posted,

be well,

jim
As good as stretching to help sounds, this has never been an issue in the past. Well, I did have a similar issue once, but it was arm pain....and it did turn out to be the handlebar then. I know the front part isn't too stretched out as its the normal position for any bar and the position the top of my drops were (which is the part I always rode).

Brooks may be another issue. The problem is that it doesn't hurt when I ride. It DOES feel comfortable, but AFTER the ride I notice my dangly bits are numb. It's got about 250-300 miles on it now.

Well, I only put about 20 miles on it, and in that 20 miles I didn't "think" anything felt to be problematic. But my "gut" feeling tells me the same thing you are saying. The problem is that I don't think they make longer stems. I can't put it out anymore, other than to flip the bars over (which may be what I try when I'm able to ride again). If I put the inner part now on the extreme outer part, which will leave the brake part where it is.


The more I think about it the more I'm convinced this is the culprit. Can you post some pictures of the bars on the bike, from the side and straight down from the top? This will tell the full story.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced this is the culprit. Can you post some pictures of the bars on the bike, from the side and straight down from the top? This will tell the full story.

One of the links I put in the same post with picture links to my thread in the commuter forum. It has pics from many angles.

I've never ridden trekking bars, but to me they look like they move your hands either closer or farther way depending on where your hands are on the bars. I'm not really sure how this is an advantage.

In these pictures it look to me like your hands are to close to you when they are on the yellow part of the bars compared to where they were on you old bars. I'm thinking this is the problem, your cockpit in now to small.

Don't mind my crude rendering. I don't think it's even in proportion, but you get the idea where the old bars were.

I've never ridden trekking bars, but to me they look like they move your hands either closer or farther way depending on where your hands are on the bars. I'm not really sure how this is an advantage.

In these pictures it look to me like your hands are to close to you when they are on the yellow part of the bars compared to where they were on you old bars. I'm thinking this is the problem, your cockpit in now to small.

Don't mind my crude rendering. I don't think it's even in proportion, but you get the idea where the old bars were.
Well, they are kinda like taking drop bars and flattening them out. You were technically at different stretch positions whether you are on top of bars, in the hoods or in the drops.

But I think you are right as stated before. I think the problem is the front area not the back. When I can try to ride again, I'm gonna try to flip the bar and ride it the other way and see if it makes a difference. In that thread I pointed too, another guy posted a pic of his bike and he rides with his pointed the other way.


I think part of the problem may be that I think this bike is one size too small for me, but I took it because I got such a huge discount on it. Already being slightly small and then making that worse by reducing cockpit in front is likely what the culprit is.

I think part of the problem may be that I think this bike is one size too small for me, but I took it because I got such a huge discount on it. Already being slightly small and then making that worse by reducing cockpit in front is likely what the culprit is.

Ding, ding, ding I think we just found your answer.

Hey KT!

I have those bars - got them from Harris Cycling. I had to raise the Technomic stem up almost equal to the seat - it feels high at first but it allows me to not put any pressure on my hands and keep my back as straight or not as I need it to be.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1279/625409194_77cecfeacf.jpg

I also tilted the bars so the part closest to me was up a bit more than it was designed to. Again, it let me ride with a very light touch. After this (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=262759&page=2) whole thread I don't have wrist or back issues (sometimes hands but then I realize I've gotten lazy and was squeezing way too hard).

Hey KT!

I have those bars - got them from Harris Cycling. I had to raise the Technomic stem up almost equal to the seat - it feels high at first but it allows me to not put any pressure on my hands and keep my back as straight or not as I need it to be.


I also tilted the bars so the part closest to me was up a bit more than it was designed to. Again, it let me ride with a very light touch. After this (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=262759&page=2) whole thread I don't have wrist or back issues (sometimes hands but then I realize I've gotten lazy and was squeezing way too hard).
Interesting thoughts Air...I may have to tinker with those ideas too.

KT, how long is you stem now? It's looks like a 110mm or so. I really don't think you will be able to get a stem long enough to get you stretched back out enough. Do you have your saddle slid way back?

KT, how long is you stem now? It's looks like a 110mm or so. I really don't think you will be able to get a stem long enough to get you stretched back out enough. Do you have your saddle slid way back?

I've seen stems all the way up to 130mm. Even the adjustable stem I just put on my road bike is a 120mm.
The only issue with sliding the saddle farther back is that changes your positioning over the pedals. I'd play with stem and bars before changing saddle positions.

KT, futz w/ the saddle and KOPS a bit to relieve the numbness. I found the Brooks was more comfortable w/ it tilted up more than my previous saddle cuz it forced me to sit on my sit bones instead of my taint.

As for the back pain, have you tried doing core strengthening exercises (situps, pushups, squats, etc.)?

KT, how long is you stem now? It's looks like a 110mm or so. I really don't think you will be able to get a stem long enough to get you stretched back out enough. Do you have your saddle slid way back?

IIRC, it's a 120mm.


KT, futz w/ the saddle and KOPS a bit to relieve the numbness. I found the Brooks was more comfortable w/ it tilted up more than my previous saddle cuz it forced me to sit on my sit bones instead of my taint.

As for the back pain, have you tried doing core strengthening exercises (situps, pushups, squats, etc.)?

I originally had it slightly tilted up and could feel it on my taint. That's why its level now. And again, I don't think stretching or core strengthening is the issue...it's well beyond that. I had no issues until I changed handlebars then it was sudden and drastic.

IIRC, it's a 120mm.



I originally had it slightly tilted up and could feel it on my taint. That's why its level now. And again, I don't think stretching or core strengthening is the issue...it's well beyond that. I had no issues until I changed handlebars then it was sudden and drastic.

I suspect you need to go back to your original handlebars for now, KT.

You just changed the geometry too much with the trekkers.

I suspect you need to go back to your original handlebars for now, KT.

You just changed the geometry too much with the trekkers.

I was thinking that may be the case, however, I was so sure about the trekkers that I traded off my old bar-end shifters. I'll have to get new shifters now if I do.

Although, I do want to at least give them a bit of a try in different configs to see if they could work. If not, I'll go back to drops or maybe try mustache or flat bars.

I was thinking that may be the case, however, I was so sure about the trekkers that I traded off my old bar-end shifters. I'll have to get new shifters now if I do.

Although, I do want to at least give them a bit of a try in different configs to see if they could work. If not, I'll go back to drops or maybe try mustache or flat bars.

Ouch! OK, well, can you get a 130 mm stem? That may help enough to let you stay with the trekkers, but no guarantees. Does it help if you stay out on the front of the bars, by the way?

Ouch! OK, well, can you get a 130 mm stem? That may help enough to let you stay with the trekkers, but no guarantees. Does it help if you stay out on the front of the bars, by the way?

Like I said, I don't know for sure, but I suspect it would. The front of the bars (part at end of stem) should be identical to straight part when I had the drops when I had no issues. That's why I suspect it has to be the ends on the inside; which is why I thought maybe flipping it to make them further out than the part at end of stem.

Like I said, I don't know for sure, but I suspect it would. The front of the bars (part at end of stem) should be identical to straight part when I had the drops when I had no issues. That's why I suspect it has to be the ends on the inside; which is why I thought maybe flipping it to make them further out than the part at end of stem.

Check your PM's ;)

Run them almost vertical and see what happens.

Run them almost vertical and see what happens.

I was thinking of that too, but god would it look corny.

I was thinking of that too, but god would it look corny.

Says the guy with the mutli-colored mud flaps..:D:D:D Just try it and don't worry about what it looks like. You never know, it may be the next big thing. The roadies will all be bragging about the .000001 of a second they saved by using their shiney new King Termite bars...:D:D:D

Says the guy with the mutli-colored mud flaps..:D:D:D
Touche'



I didn't mean I wouldn't try it though.....I've NEVER stopped myself from doing something because I was afraid of what somebody would think. Ask just about anybody who has ever known me in person for more than a week.

How much of your time did you spend with your hands in a position to reach the brakes? The angle(up) looks unnatural(to me).

If you have a trainer, put the bike in it and swap the bars(without swapping the brakes and shifters) and just get on and do a light spin. See if the issue is lessened, then compare the two bars mounted to see what the difference is.

Also is it possible that the back issue could be something else? I have chronic intermitent lower back trouble but sometimes my upper back(between the shoulder blades) will just start hurting usually with no warning.

KT - something else I was thinking of. When I put my trekking bars on I raised them to where I was riding when I was in the drops (because I couldn't stand riding on the hoods). I don't know if you just slapped them on or adjusted anything but a good benchmark.

Also, look at my picture above. I actually tilted my brakes DOWN so when my hands were there I didn't have to bend my wrists to grab them.

KT - something else I was thinking of. When I put my trekking bars on I raised them to where I was riding when I was in the drops (because I couldn't stand riding on the hoods). I don't know if you just slapped them on or adjusted anything but a good benchmark.

Also, look at my picture above. I actually tilted my brakes DOWN so when my hands were there I didn't have to bend my wrists to grab them.

I'm not quite sure I follow you. The drops are lower than the hoods, so what do you mean you raised them up to the level of the drops because you didn't like riding the hoods?

When I rode the road handlebars, I rode on top of bar and in hoods pretty much exclusively. I RARELY actually used the drops.

I'm not quite sure I follow you. The drops are lower than the hoods, so what do you mean you raised them up to the level of the drops because you didn't like riding the hoods?

When I rode the road handlebars, I rode on top of bar and in hoods pretty much exclusively. I RARELY actually used the drops.

I think that's pretty much how most ride their drops. At least, that's what I've generally seen, is that riders with drops generally stay on the top or on the hoods unless climbing/sprinting. The ones I've ridden I've been either extremely comfortable in the hoods/top bar or hated them.. little middle ground :). The Bianchi Volpe, for example, I loved being on the hoods. The Trek XO1, not so much. Then the Trek 1500? Love.

Regarding the saddle, I'll echo what Tom said, and the height issue. It took me a good 500 miles to get my Brooks "dialed in", probably nearly 1000 if you count the latest minor adjustment, but now it's perfection. No saddle sores, no numb.. you know.. and yeah. It's so good that I doubt I'll ever ride anything but a B-17. Perfection. At first I wasn't so convinced, but now.. yes.

Good luck, I know all about shoulder pain. On every ride longer than 30 miles i get a sharp pain in my right shoulder that just won't stop. The last time it happened I was ready to pay every dime in my checking account for a couple Ibuprofen, but we were out in the middle of nowhere with no hope for a gas station or any such store in sight. It was.. torturous :)