This brings up a question I have had. WSD... Is there really a noticeable difference for you ladies ?

With all the adjustability of different stem sizes, bars, seats, setbacks, etc. these days, is a WSD frame really that important?

This brings up a question I have had. WSD... Is there really a noticeable difference for you ladies ?

With all the adjustability of different stem sizes, bars, seats, setbacks, etc. these days, is a WSD frame really that important?

I'm not even sure it's the frame, so much as they do generally come decked with the womens seats, short reach shifters, narrower bars etc so you don't need to swap all that. The top tube length may be a little shorter?

This brings up a question I have had. WSD... Is there really a noticeable difference for you ladies ?

With all the adjustability of different stem sizes, bars, seats, setbacks, etc. these days, is a WSD frame really that important?

Adam, I know that I'm a bit of an exception to the rule, since most bikes (WSD or not) won't fit me. But I have noticed several big things about WSD frames: sloping top tubes makes for easier standover... and shorter top tubes. A lot of women may have long torsos, but in general, we have shorter arms and don't have the reach of you manly types. Now, the taller the woman, the less a need there is of WSD. But I'm glad WSDs are around, and so do most short women. :)

On the other hand, I don't like certain things that come with many WSD bikes. A lot of them come standard with triple cranks, "girly" paint jobs and lower-end componentry. They also tend to come with cushy, wide saddles that just won't do for someone like me (I ride a 133 men's saddle). Hence... I bought the frame, and built up the rest of Sacha myself.

[moderator edited]

I actually do have a custom built steel bike from IF which I love and have had for years. Just recently, I got a Carbon Fiber bike which I now also love. Different bikes, different purposes, different rides, different riders, it's all good.

This brings up a question I have had. WSD... Is there really a noticeable difference for you ladies ?

With all the adjustability of different stem sizes, bars, seats, setbacks, etc. these days, is a WSD frame really that important?

I will never go back now that I've ridden a woman. ;) Seriously, here is what I've lost:

1. Shoulder and neck stiffness and pain after long rides
2. Knee issues
3. lower back pain

And here is what improved:

1. handlebar is MUCH narrower. I'm 37 centimeters across, tip of left shoulder to tip of my right shoulder and guess what? Patsy's handlebars are exactly 37 centimeters across, which is very narrow (most women switch the handlebars out on the treks for this very reason)
2. I'm short waisted with long legs and voluptuous hips and butt (in case you haven't noticed :p) and the reach to the handlebars and definitely down into the drops is significantly more comfortable. This is something noticed right away! I love riding in my drops now, including on descents (which Bob finally convinced me to do) whereas I was never comfortable on the Trek 1000 in the drops.
3. The frame is a WSD 54 which is equivalent to a standard 52. The Trek 1000 I bought was a 54. The bike was too big for me, but anything lower than that was too small.

So, yes, there is a difference. :)

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention, the shifters are smaller. My hands aren't necesarily small but they are narrow and my fingers are slender, so I suspect this is good for me too.

Joy/ME, very interesting and educational indeed. I did not know of all the differences that come with the WSD designation.

It is due to both your explanations that I again stress to get a demo ride on any bike you consider. :)

Adam, I know that I'm a bit of an exception to the rule, since most bikes (WSD or not) won't fit me. But I have noticed several big things about WSD frames: sloping top tubes makes for easier standover... and shorter top tubes. A lot of women may have long torsos, but in general, we have shorter arms and don't have the reach of you manly types. Now, the taller the woman, the less a need there is of WSD. But I'm glad WSDs are around, and so do most short women. :)

On the other hand, I don't like certain things that come with many WSD bikes. A lot of them come standard with triple cranks, "girly" paint jobs and lower-end componentry. They also tend to come with cushy, wide saddles that just won't do for someone like me (I ride a 133 men's saddle). Hence... I bought the frame, and built up the rest of Sacha myself.

I agree with this 100%. :mad: I refused to buy the Trek 1700 for one reason only: it was pepto-bismo pink! :eek: Not even lovely pink lady (Karen) would have liked it. Dreadful! I do not want to ride a bike that looks like a giant *****! My saddle, on the other hand, I like. It is a bit cushy, but I have a wide load and need that extra support. :p As for the triple crank - I LOVE it and won't go without it, but that's just my preference as I do tend to have knee issues - and the components I got were Shimano/Ultegra on the Trek, which I don't think was too bad, but I'm not good with all this stuff, so any components will do (yes, pathetic, I know...I am getting better now and will look for higher quality on the new bike).

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I agree with you on the WSD thing Mary. Gina had problems with another Bianchi. Not the frame but the brake levers. She hit my wheel and went down hard. I installed smaller levers and it helped her big time. Her Pilot is WSD and has made a big difference with the narrow bars and levers. Far more control!

the components I got were Shimano/Ultegra on the Trek

I shouldn't really say that about Trek and Specialized. However, I was so disappointed when I looked at Bianchi's 2007 WSD selection. No CF frames, and nothing better than an Ultegra-105 mix (their highest offering) or Campy Mirage.

I agree with this 100%. :mad: I refused to buy the Trek 1700 for one reason only: it was pepto-bismo pink! :eek: Not even lovely pink lady (Karen) would have liked it. Dreadful! I do not want to ride a bike that looks like a giant *****! My saddle, on the other hand, I like. It is a bit cushy, but I have a wide load and need that extra support. :p As for the triple crank - I LOVE it and won't go without it, but that's just my preference as I do tend to have knee issues - and the components I got were Shimano/Ultegra on the Trek, which I don't think was too bad, but I'm not good with all this stuff, so any components will do (yes, pathetic, I know...I am getting better now and will look for higher quality on the new bike).

A giant *****!, whatever that is, doesn't sound good to me. :rolleyes:

Remember that shimano is changing their component groups this Fall. Ultegra is becoming Ultegra SL, DuraAce is also getting revised. So you should be in an even better bargaining position should you find a floor model you like. Tell the salesperson you know the new groups are coming out. Make them cut the price even more. Stick to Ultegra triple if you can.

A giant *****!, whatever that is, doesn't sound good to me. :rolleyes:

Remember that shimano is changing their component groups this Fall. Ultegra is becoming Ultegra SL, DuraAce is also getting revised. So you should be in an even better bargaining position should you find a floor model you like. Tell the salesperson you know the new groups are coming out. Make them cut the price even more. Stick to Ultegra triple if you can.

It is good, but not as the color of a bike. ;) :p

Thanks for the advice! Shall do...

I just talked to my Dad and now I'm getting excited. He's all for it and even offered to put in $$. I said, unequivocally, NO. If I upgrade, Ronjon , who has graciously offered, is footing the whole bill.


...:D:lol::p

If I upgrade, Ronjon , who has graciously offered, is footing the whole bill.


...:D:lol::p

Horray !!!!

Horray !!!!

:roflmao:

Aren't I evil? :D

Seriously, though, I'm buying the bike and not asking Dad for moola. :p

Everyone is buying a new bike ... anyways, have fun on your search, ME. Shopping for a bike gives me such a high ... now you'll really be fast up the mountain! :D

:roflmao:

Aren't I evil? :D

Seriously, though, I'm buying the bike and not asking Dad for moola. :p

You need a sugardaddy!:D

Everyone is buying a new bike ... anyways, have fun on your search, ME. Shopping for a bike gives me such a high ... now you'll really be fast up the mountain! :D

Thanks, Ron, but this will not be a sudden purchase. I will probably finish out my year's riding on Patsy (i.e. not buy the bike until mid October/November), so I have a ways to go. Unless I find some deal I can't live without.

:roflmao:

Aren't I evil? :D

Seriously, though, I'm buying the bike and not asking Dad for moola. :p

Ah... come on M.E. let him pitch in a little bit... I know you are trying to be thoughtful, but imagine you were in his shoes and wanting to do something nice for your little girl... I mean, I bet it would make him feel really great to help you a little bit at least...

Ah... come on M.E. let him pitch in a little bit... I know you are trying to be thoughtful, but imagine you were in his shoes and wanting to do something nice for your little girl... I mean, I bet it would make him feel really great to help you a little bit at least...

Problem is, Trac - I already blew it with not buying a better bike to begin with...now I just feel greedy. Plus, he just had his hip replaced and has some medical bills to consider. :( No, I'm on my own. I'll just be starting a thread soon entitled "Have M.E. Over for Dinner, Choose Your Night" so that I can have at least four square meals a week. Otherwise, I'll have to exist on beanie-weenies to make up for the debt I'll be in. ;) :p

The new Madone 4.5 does come in a WSD version and lists for $2139. I don't know that anyone has them in stock now but they probably will by November. The 2008 4.5 very closely resembles the higher end 2008 Madones but has a traditonal seat post rather than the newfangled mast. Very cool looking and not pepto bismo pink.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/road/madone/madone45wsd/

And you can keep your triple too. :D

The new Madone 4.5 does come in a WSD version and lists for $2139. I don't know that anyone has them in stock now but they probably will by November. The 2008 4.5 very closely resembles the higher end 2008 Madones but has a traditonal seat post rather than the newfangled mast. Very cool looking and not pepto bismo pink.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/road/madone/madone45wsd/

And you can keep your triple too. :D

:mad: That was just cruel, Dan. CRUEL...


...unless...you're going to loan me the extra $$ for that Madone. I want it! I want it! I want it! (I'm throwing a temper tantrum right now, you guys just can't hear or see it) :p

Mary,

I rode the madone...it was really sweet...you seem like a trek girl.

pps. All I know is that the Cervelo R3 is a compact frame with a shorter toptube, and can probably be made to fit nicely under ME with the right stem and seatpost.

But, alas, it's CARBON FIBER, and can't stand the rigors of hard use.

Ask Fabian Cancellara...he knows, man...he knows....

wondering what's wrong with Patsy....

Patsy weighs 27-28 pounds fully loaded.


at that weight, i'm thinking you should change its name to bertha or bessy.

:mad: That was just cruel, Dan. CRUEL...


...unless...you're going to loan me the extra $$ for that Madone. I want it! I want it! I want it! (I'm throwing a temper tantrum right now, you guys just can't hear or see it) :p

Cruel? Extra money? If you were considering a LeMond for just under $2K would you really pass on the Madone you always wanted over less than $200?

You were going to buy a car my dear. If you had done that they would have charged you that much for floor mats.

So...ME, are you going to swap these from Patsy to your new bike?

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa101/ElephantineSubtlety/workshop-anvil-web.gif

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u294/Chris_Alexander_Metal_Design/Picture004.jpg

pps. All I know is that the Cervelo R3 is a compact frame with a shorter toptube, and can probably be made to fit nicely under ME with the right stem and seatpost.

But, alas, it's CARBON FIBER, and can't stand the rigors of hard use.

Ask Fabian Cancellara...he knows, man...he knows....

She would probably want the new RS with the taller headtube and longer chainstays. It would be well over budget though so we really shouldn't mention it.

How long a ride does it take for you to get neck pain? Handlebars can be replaced. Maybe you should take measurements of your current bike setup. If you can go non-WSD, it opens up more options.

The Madone 4.5 WSD looks nice. Almost the same color as your current bike too. Kind of like an upgraded twin! Maybe it'll coincide with Thanksgiving Sale. Get it! Get it! Get it! :D

I think all you SoCal guys should pitch in 100.00 each so Mary can buy whatever bike she wants....

I think all you SoCal guys should pitch in 100.00 each so Mary can buy whatever bike she wants....

Sigh...

You don't actually think ME is going to buy a new bike do you?


Fool.

I guess you told me

at that weight, i'm thinking you should change its name to bertha or bessy.
Patsy said to tell you that she doubts your "junk" is even big enough to be felt on her saddle, so you should change your name to Chucklelittlehead.
Um...sorry...just passing on what my bike said after you insinuated that she's a cow. We women are a little testy about our weight. :p

hey now.

So...ME, are you going to swap these from Patsy to your new bike?


Okay, now, Mo, you just made Patsy cry. :mad: Not talking to you for awhile. :p

Hold out for the Trek, it looks perfect.

hey now.
Patsy said it, not me. I think your junk is impressive...at least what I can see of it through spandex. :D

Sigh...

You don't actually think ME is going to buy a new bike do you?


Fool.

:mad: :mad: :mad:
Yes, I am too! And I laugh at you now...ha ha ha ha ha! And ha!

How long
The Madone 4.5 WSD looks nice. Almost the same color as your current bike too. Kind of like an upgraded twin! Maybe it'll coincide with Thanksgiving Sale. Get it! Get it! Get it! :D
I want it! I want it! I want it!
Oh, wait...this is how I always get in trouble...:o

I want it! I want it! I want it!
Oh, wait...this is how I always get in trouble...:o
You want it without riding it first?

You want it without riding it first?
Well, yes, but only because I LOVE Patsy. With all my joking, I hope the fact is not lost that I'm looking to improve my ride. A Madone (even if not high end) will be an improvement over my 1500. But I will test ride one and others this go around for sure...

What's so heavy on your bike now? You do a lot of long rides and climbs so if the fit is good, can't you upgrade the components? That would also allow you to pace your spending.

I agree with this 100%. :mad: I refused to buy the Trek 1700 for one reason only: it was pepto-bismo pink! :eek: Not even lovely pink lady (Karen) would have liked it. Dreadful! I do not want to ride a bike that looks like a giant *****! My saddle, on the other hand, I like. It is a bit cushy, but I have a wide load and need that extra support. :p As for the triple crank - I LOVE it and won't go without it, but that's just my preference as I do tend to have knee issues - and the components I got were Shimano/Ultegra on the Trek, which I don't think was too bad, but I'm not good with all this stuff, so any components will do (yes, pathetic, I know...I am getting better now and will look for higher quality on the new bike).

Ok it looks like I'm going to have to represent for pink bikes, wooohoo! On this forum and on the other I have never meet so many people with an aversion for pink bikes. My bike is PINK and has ultegra componentry which is right below dura-ace and wasn't cheap--list $1998, does not have wide seats, but does have a triple crank, which I love. You guys should just embrace your inner girl and stay away from those goth colors. How can you not like pink and you ridin a baby blue bike?
PS: go for the madone, if you win the lottery, go for the pink orbea diva--that's my next bike:).

ME,

I'm having a hard time believing your Trek 1500 weighs 27 to 28 lbs. I'm sure your scale is off and you weigh less than you think.........:D

I got no problem with inner pink

Ok it looks like I'm going to have to represent for pink bikes, wooohoo! On this forum and on the other I have never meet so many people with an aversion for pink bikes. My bike is PINK and has ultegra componentry which is right below dura-ace and wasn't cheap--list $1998, does not have wide seats, but does have a triple crank, which I love. You guys should just embrace your inner girl and stay away from those goth colors. How can you not like pink and you ridin a baby blue bike?
PS: go for the madone, if you win the lottery, go for the pink orbea diva--that's my next bike:).

#1 I like you already, lady, as you are correct - pink is all good.
#2. - However, PEPTO (or *****) pink is NOT!
As for my "baby" blue (no dear, "powder" blue according to trek :p), I hated the color. Truthfully, I preferred my first bike's colors the most - silver, grey and black. Foo-foo colors do nothing for me, although I've grown to love Patsy. She's scratched all to hell but still mighty fine IMO. :D

Thanks, Ron, but this will not be a sudden purchase. I will probably finish out my year's riding on Patsy (i.e. not buy the bike until mid October/November), so I have a ways to go. Unless I find some deal I can't live without.

I know, I went through the same thing ... but it is always fun to go bike shopping! Keep riding Patsy, and don't ignore her ... she'll fight back.

Sigh...

You don't actually think ME is going to buy a new bike do you?


Fool.

You're lucky San Diego is quite a drive from Sherman Oaks .. :D

ME,

I'm having a hard time believing your Trek 1500 weighs 27 to 28 lbs. I'm sure your scale is off and you weigh less than you think.........:D
Big ol' kiss to you. ;) However, Patsy and I are both...um...how shall I put it...a little heavy on the cream lately. Like my butt, she tends to be a bit padded when I get the water bottles on, etc. I had her weighed with full bottles at my lbs, and even sans my HID and battery (have you seen the size of that puppy?), she came in at 26 pounds. On double centuries, I'm riding a 27 to 30 pound bike. That's heavy for 200 miles.

Patsy said it, not me. I think your junk is impressive...at least what I can see of it through spandex. :D

i'm wearing sweats to the next ride :mad:

What's so heavy on your bike now? You do a lot of long rides and climbs so if the fit is good, can't you upgrade the components? That would also allow you to pace your spending.
You know, I'd rather just upgrade the bike than upgrade the components, Frank. I didn't spend a lot for Patsy (not to say she isn't a great bike). But for the riding I do, even my sweet Dad was quick to say that I need a little better equipment. He wants to now upgrade too and he just bought his Trek hybrid this year! I guess it runs in the family... :o