Commuting - Mileage chargers to an employer for bike riding?

Answer me this if you will, please. If an employer doesn't provide transportation for their employees, and this employer requires you to go off site as part of your job, and they pay 34.5 cents per mile to employees who drive a personal vehicle (car, motorcycle...whatever) to and from these required events, is it ethical for me to put down mileage accumulated by using a bicycle to get to the same events (just as quickly)?

Not really. They are primarily paying for gas arent they?

If what the employer is paying is classified as "reimbursement" -- and it almost certainy is -- then the ethical thing would be for you to calculate a cost-per-mile for operating a bike, and to put in for that amount.

Personally, I don't think it's worth the paperwork. Nickel a mile, maybe?

RichC

You could take a cue from the State of California which has calculated the reimbursement rate for travel by bicycle at $0.04/mile.

http://www.dpa.ca.gov/jobinfo/statetravel.shtm

It would be more profitable to have a car, dont you go from place to place sweaty and stuff.

If you want to give your employer the impression that you are working exclusively for your benefit and that you are not really interested in being a team player, then go ahead and submit your expense report with the mileage calculated at automobile cost rates.

If you are particularly unlucky, your employer will pay the expense and say nothing. Your upward career movement may stall - mostly as a reflection of your perceived attitude toward your employer. Maybe this one incident won't do it, but you may have already sent a couple other negative signals.

Conclusion: if you work in the private sector, don't claim mileage for bicycle transportation.

Can you charge for your time, instead of mileage?

The way I see it is you get to ride your bike while working... That's benefit enough right there!

About 12 years ago my work required visiting a contractor about 5 miles away about 5 times a month. I rode my bike and claimed the 25c per km. This rate applied whether you drove a Cadillac or a VW, so why not a bike. On overnight trips you were allowed to claim something like $20 for a meal - it was up to you whether you eat at McD's or the Ritz.

There is a good article in this months bicycling magazine about this stuff.

Originally posted by AndrewP
About 12 years ago my work required visiting a contractor about 5 miles away about 5 times a month. I rode my bike and claimed the 25c per km. This rate applied whether you drove a Cadillac or a VW, so why not a bike. On overnight trips you were allowed to claim something like $20 for a meal - it was up to you whether you eat at McD's or the Ritz.

Yup - that's my take also.

Ask your employer what their policy is on "personal vehicle" reimbursement. If you unilaterally decide to take the 34.5 cent per mile rate, it could be trouble. If motorcyclists get the same reimbursement as cars, it follows that you might get it, too -- but please check first.

Paul

Yes it is ethical. You must also consider your fuel--food. This is generally MUCH more expensive than gasoline. You are entitled to the full amount. Just because you choose to use a bicycle as your vehicle should not change that. That's your business and not your employers.

I can see both sides of the argument here. You don't want to leave a bad taste in your employers mouth by raising hell over unorthodox practices....However, I view the mileage reimbursement rate as a combination of cost of gasoline as well as wear and tear on your car. So why wouldn't wear and tear apply to a bicycle? (If you want to argue that you need to fuel your body with nourishment the way you fuel a car with gasoline- all the power to you -though I think you may be pushing the envelope with that one). I would talk to your employer and see if you can reach an agreement with him so that he is paying you less per mile than he would be if you were driving a car, but you still get something for your effort. Of course, if you're only going 5 miles, and you get reimbursed 20 cents a mile- that seems like an awful lot of fuss for a dollar!

Originally posted by mike
If you want to give your employer the impression that you are working exclusively for your benefit and that you are not really interested in being a team player, then go ahead and submit your expense report with the mileage calculated at automobile cost rates.

If you are particularly unlucky, your employer will pay the expense and say nothing. Your upward career movement may stall - mostly as a reflection of your perceived attitude toward your employer. Maybe this one incident won't do it, but you may have already sent a couple other negative signals.

Conclusion: if you work in the private sector, don't claim mileage for bicycle transportation.
Was this a deliberate troll? I have never seen such a load of c*** in my life. In the private sector, I have never seen anything but corporations maximizing the exploitation available from employees. Then someone posts this load of s***. Give me a break.

Conclusion: Mike's career in middle management is assured.

Originally posted by PaulH
If motorcyclists get the same reimbursement as cars, it follows that you might get it, too -- but please check first.


I've mainly been going by gov't agencies and their travel policies since those seem more formalised. However, that said, there's still a difference between institutions and agencies. For instance, I remember when I was working for the Univ. of MI, the travel reimbursement for personal automobiles was 36.0 cents/mi and not 34.5 cents/mi. My current employer which is a spinoff startup from the Univ. of MI retains this reimbursement policy. Within the same context, I've also seen reimbursement rates for motorcycles listed at 27 cents/mi within some travel guidelines and others treat them the same as cars at 34.5 cents/mi. Now my employer has two main offices. One is in Ann arbor, MI and the other is in Mountain View, CA (considered the official HQ). I regularly travel to the Mtn. View office and stay at a hotel in Palo alto. I have inquired about cycling back and forth to the office rather than renting a car. I could do this by either renting a bike (reimbursable) while I'm there or buying/bringing (airline bike fee is reimbursable) a commuter bike and keeping it in the office. I was also told I could claim the 4 cent/mile reimbursement rate as per standard State of California travel reimbursement policy. As you can see, different organisations have different ways of differentiating different vehicles.

I'd say the best idea would be to talk it over with your boss(es) and find out what they think about it before demanding payment. Maybe they'll work out a special rate for you, maybe they'll tell you to just take the regular rate, maybe they'll laugh in your face...

One of the advantages of using a bike for transport is that it is much cheaper than using a car. Personally I think you should just ask them for the actual expenses incurred in the bicycle travel. If you start demanding the same rate as a car, they might start demanding you actually use a car.

I think its great to use the bike, but one thing you may want to consider. Your employer may not mind you riding your bike, but why push the issue by claiming mileage. Their retort could be "You are taking 4-5 times longer to get there than a car" - may not be the case, but that could be their thought process. (Some places the bike may be faster though... :) )

If the reimbursement were for actual costs, it would not be a flat rate. Therefore, it is renumeration, or payment for services rendered. Therefore, if you go on a bicycle you should get the same amount.

This would make an interesting court case. Doesn't Johnny Cochrane ride a Marin? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by djwid
Was this a deliberate troll? I have never seen such a load of c*** in my life. In the private sector, I have never seen anything but corporations maximizing the exploitation available from employees. Then someone posts this load of s***. Give me a break.

Conclusion: Mike's career in middle management is assured.

Maybe I was a little grumpy when I posted, but even reading it again, it holds true.

If you are working for someone else, stuff like this counts. Sure, you can get away with doing a lot of things, but in the end you are hurting your career.

Imagine yourself as a manager or supervisor. You have a team of about 20 people - all very good. Management sends out a memo saying that you have to downsize your staff by 25% by a certain date. Who goes and who stays? How about that guy who has the nerve to expense his bicycle riding - on YOUR budget? Hmm.

OR... a management/supervisor position avails itself in your department and you are responsible to fill it with an up-and-coming employee. You really need a team player - someone who understands the corporate goals. You have several excellent candidates. Who do you pick? What about the guy who claims automobile expenses when he actually rides his bike? Does that kind of thinking reflect the maturity and management level thinking that you need? What other quirks might he/she have that will reflect badly on you if you move him/her up to the position?

If you don't think this kind of thinking is prevelent, think again. The small stuff does count.

I don't see why not. Employers don't vary mileage reimbursement if you drive a fuel effecient vehicle or a guzzler. Nor does the government, for that matter. Tax deductible mileage is the same regardless of the vehicle. You still ahve to replace your chain, lube it, buy tires, tune up the bike, etc. My own highly active conscience would tell me to check first, but I think it would be BS and legally discriminatory (opinion: I am not a lawyer) if you didn't qualify.

There are many ways to look at this, it all depends on how you do the math and what your assumptions are.

Story 1: I once had a job where I was required to have a new personal motor vehicle to do company business with. I didn't buy a fancy vehicle--just a basic small Ford Ranger pickup. When I figured out the per mile cost of both owning and operating this vehicle, it was considerably more than the allowed gov't mileage rate for personal vehicle use that I was being 'reimbursed' at. Plus, to add insult to injury, the company I worked for charged their clients the higher 'fleet' rate for use of my vehicle, so they were making a profit on my vehicle as well as on my time.

Story 2: If you wanted to figure out a realistic rate of reimbursement for use of a bicycle for company business, I would say that, in addition to the cost of owning and maintaining the bicycle, plus 'fuel' costs, some or all of the following direct and indirect costs must be accounted for: (1) the avoided health care costs resulting from having a healthier employee, (2) the avoided cost of providing a parking space for the employee's motor vehicle (3) the avoided costs of air and water pollution and other damage caused by automobiles and the infrastructure needed to support them, (4) the avoided costs of road construction and maintenance, (5) The avoided cost of lost time caused by traffic congestion. This list could probably be longer if I continued to think about it. At least some of the indirect costs are borne by society at large (can you say 'taxpayers'), but even so, do affect business productivity and profiability across the board. I would guess that if you put realistic numbers to these costs, the reimbursement rate for using a bicycle for company business should actually be higher than the reimbursement rate for using a personal motor vehicle, because of the combination of lower costs to both the employer and society at large.

Are there any 'green' economists out there that want to take a shot at coming up with some realistic numbers?

Originally posted by mike
Imagine yourself as a manager or supervisor. You have a team of about 20 people - all very good. Management sends out a memo saying that you have to downsize your staff by 25% by a certain date. Who goes and who stays? How about that guy who has the nerve to expense his bicycle riding - on YOUR budget? Hmm.
*snip*
What about the guy who claims automobile expenses when he actually rides his bike? Does that kind of thinking reflect the maturity and management level thinking that you need? What other quirks might he/she have that will reflect badly on you if you move him/her up to the position?


You are assuming two things,

1) that the person claiming mileage on their bike is doing so surreptitiously and dishonestly without discussing it with their manager.

2) Bicycling is a hobby and a toy and NOT valid transportation. Else, why would it be such an egregious fault to charge it to the budget provided the rate is mutually agreed upon ahead of time.

As far as who to promote, If I were a manager I would promote the person that would do the job best, period. I would not try to divine possible "team player" attitude from the tea leaves of personal transportation choice.

As a good manager what one should do is encourage emplyees to give their best for the company. Telling them they are dishonest and a liar for wanting to claim bicycling transportation for reimbursement is, frankly, being a horrible manager.

A good manager would do their best to find a mutually agreeable solution to both parties, and forgoing that, break the news to the employee in a way that does NOT presuppose that they were trying to pull a fast one.

In summary, If the employee is valulable try to accomodate their foibles, the increased productivity from feeling wanted will far outweigh any loss. If the employee isn't valulabe, who cares how they get to work, they should be let go or talked to over the real issue of job performance.


take care,

Jester

Originally posted by mike
Maybe I was a little grumpy when I posted, but even reading it again, it holds true.

I was grumpy when I posted as well. But my comments hold true as well.


If you are working for someone else, stuff like this counts. Sure, you can get away with doing a lot of things, but in the end you are hurting your career.

Sounds like a troll to me. Heaven forbid I get reimbursed for the wear and tear on my bike. And if I do my career is in jeopardy. Oh no the scions of middle management will punish those who don't conform!



Imagine yourself as a manager or supervisor. You have a team of about 20 people - all very good.

Been there done that. I prefer the quality of life as an individual contributor. OTOH when I built this team I a had a number of valuable employees who had side commitments. One was a musician who needed Friday off for band practice. He worked extra hours to compensate. He was also one of our best guys. As soon as I went on to product management, my replacement got rid of the flex time and then got rid of him. Huge waste of knowledge and time all in the name of conformity.


Management sends out a memo saying that you have to downsize your staff by 25% by a certain date. Who goes and who stays? How about that guy who has the nerve to expense his bicycle riding - on YOUR budget? Hmm.


Your comment reeks of disdain. Are Bicycles are not valid transportation to you? Also your belief that you really decide how your budget gets spent. Really a valid expense is a valid expense. Maybe you should just send a subtle message that those who expense anything will be the first to get laid off. I am sure you will have a happy motivated team with that kind of managerial attitude.

Your post is full of the corporate crap that all things are ethical to preserve the bottom line BUT God forbid you look out for yourself as an employee. For goodness sake you might start a union next.

No wonder your avatar has a tie.
-Duncan

I would caution folks in placing as high or higher a reimbursement value on bicycling vs driving. The reason I say this is that [1] it is counter to what I believe in that I think cycling is a more economical mode of transportation from a cost-of-operation standpoint... notice I did not say from a business standpoint and [2] many companies (and all the ones I've worked for) have a policy of reimbursing only for the least-cost mode of transportation. Additionally, employers may put a value on the employee's time and consider that although a bicycle is more economical, environmentally friendly, healthier, etc mode of transport, it may also take the employee longer and thus they're paying more for someone to be "on the clock". This may not seem cost-effective to the employer. If you can convince your employer to reimburse you for the same amount or higher for your bike commuting then great but be sure to have your story straight and to make it very compelling. And above all else... don't whine.

I'm with mike, if I tried to get mileage for a bike ride the folks in fiscal would jump all over it asking questions to mangers, chiefs, and department heads looking for the policy to justify the expense. That would lead to a policy stating no bike mileage and my name would forever be mud.

Perhaps those that disagree work in smaller business where it is not as competitve, have a different regional work ethic (hard working mid-westerner vs. laid back west coast style)or have great managers, I don't know? But plain and simple, if I ask for bike mileage, I am asking for trouble.

ehenz

Originally posted by ehenz
But plain and simple, if I ask for bike mileage, I am asking for trouble.

I still don't get it. If you ask for your employer to cover the actual expenses of the trip, you will be in trouble? That is just crazy. The mode of your transportation should not enter the picture, provided it does not effect your performance (ie. you manage to show up on time, are dressed up properly, are clean etc.). If anything, your boss should be happy for the supposedly lower cost of using the bike.

--J

I would submit the request at the rate of mileage reimbursement for other means of transportation. It's a vehicle for transportation which is the main point here. Bicycling is a growing means of transportation that is being promoted very largely in the area where I live near St. Louis. It saves the roads, reduces pollution etc. I pulled up some articles promoting reimbursement for mileage etc. for those riding their bikes to work, but have not found any law regarding that issue. Every forms says reimbursement for the employees personal vehicle and if your bicycle is your personal vehicle, then there should be no problem with the reimbursement.

Originally posted by JoeTown244GL
they pay 34.5 cents per mile to employees who drive a personal vehicle

If that's the policy, I just don't see the problem. You are entitled to the same per mile reimbursement as the next guy regardless to your mode of transport. :)

They pay 34.5 cents per mile to employees who drive a personal vehicle to and from these required events.

Personal of, having to do with, or belonging to a person; individual

Vehicle Any means of carrying, conveying, or transporting.

Bicycle A lightweight vehicle consisting of a metal frame with two wheels, one behind the other, a handlebar for steering, a seat for the rider, and pedals propelled by the pressure of the feet.

Sounds like you're good to me, As long as that is the policy.

A consideration would be if you are still getting paid by the hour, on top of the per diem, then I would think you would go by the time it takes in an automobile plus mileage. Just make sure you play by the rules.

As for getting promoted and all that kind of rubbish I would think they'd look for someone who is, among other things, efficient. Whether they are the beneficiaries or not.

Make of that what you will, I'm off to dig up the sewer pipe, Cheers! Paul J.

Originally posted by bac
If that's the policy, I just don't see the problem. You are entitled to the same per mile reimbursement as the next guy regardless to your mode of transport. :)

In theory it is, however as I said before, I'd just be a bit worried about the boss taking the "since I'm paying for the vehicle, I might as well choose the vehicle" ideal. Given the amount of anti-cyclist bigotry that goes on in society generally, this is a very real risk. Personally I'd just continue riding the bike show off the advantages to the employer - then he might think about it later on.

OK, I work for a major, multi-national oilfield service company. My work requires me to travel between many different facilities, with personal mileage reimbursed beyond my main office.

Company policy states 'personal vehicle', not car, not motor vehicle. State law defines a bicycle as a vehicle. I discussed it with my boss, who agreed that the rate was the same for car, motorcycle, or bicycle (and that's his budget the money comes out of). He does not car as long as I am on time, fit for work, and have all needed gear available.

Don't fight against the system, instead, learn it and use it. Think of it as corporate judo.

i think you definitely should be able to claim mileage. the amount depends mainly on one factor:
** do you get paid while travelling? if so, then if the distance is great you may be costing the employer more (MAY, b/c b/c of traffic you may not be slower), so you definitely should get less than the auto rate. but if it your own time, then i see little problem with charging the auto rate as it is your own time and the employer is paying an _average_ rate for you to transport yourself, and it's irrelevant if that is by car or bike (as has been mentioned a ford Prius and Suburban get the same rate although their costs are different).

i would say discuss it with the employer and a slightly lower rate of say $.10-.15/ mile should be reasonable. that way you are saving the company money while doing something positive for the environment and yourself and getting a slight compensation for it. (those who drive fuel-efficient cars also usually make money from travel)

IF you were going to try and discount for fuel, to be truly fair i would think you should only charge for ADDITIONAL food. so it would be something like: sitting at desk or behind the wheel you burn b (base) calories and cycling you burn c )cycling) calories, so fuel reimbursement = additional calories burned while cycling = (c-b) * time. of course if you wanted to get really fancy you could also add it the additional calories need after cycling to replenish your energy stores, rebuild muscles as well as additional calories burned from a raised base metabolic rate from being fitter, but that would be very minor as well as difficult to calculate. then take an average price per calorie based on the food you eat and that's a fuel estimate. of course, makes little practical sense b/c even with cars you usually don't estimate your actual costs, rather use a flat rate so estimates are not needed.

as to the "management thing" and being a good employee: it doesn't seem like asking for reimbursement is such an evil or "un-team" thing to do, especially if it is dicsussed with management, and even more so if you take a lower rate you are actually SAVING the company money by not driving and asking for the high rate. i suppose if you work in an uptight environment where riding a bike is not respected then maybe it would be a problem, but in this case i think you bieng "a weird guy on a bike" exists whether you clsim exenses or not.

Originally posted by Da Tinker
Don't fight against the system, instead, learn it and use it. Think of it as corporate judo.

I couldn't agree more.

Just an idea, didn't sort through the whole mess of posts so this may have already been brought up. Maybe charge the employer for some basic mainentance mileage and a few Power Bars or what ever you carry for food. Maybe included in the cost to the employer would be moneies for replacement clothing as well. shorts, jerseys, shoes, gloves, jackets, visibilty wear, etc. all wear out as much as moving parts.