Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - What to look for in a frame?

I have been riding a road bike for about 6 months and have been really interested in building a fixie. Not only will it help my cadence and power, it looks like a lot of fun. (And it will help my wrenching skills.)

I have been reading sheldon browns website and I am almost ready to begin. One question though. I am planning on looking around for an old road bike to convert. What things should I look for?

Obviously a horizontal drop out, but other than that?

And are there any brands to either stay away from or look for?

Thanks

Maybe you know this already but the stickers are the most important part of the frame:
http://www.whycycle.co.uk/stickers.htm
http://www.gtgtandems.com/tech/materials.html

Look for forged dropouts instead of stamped. The different styles are on Sheldon's website, but you can basically spot them by looking for the following: a forged dropout will have a raised edge around the opening; it will look a little thicker where the nut clamps onto the frame. This is usually a sign of better quality. Stamped dropouts are just flat metal with no embellishments.

Depending on what you want to do, you should probably look for a frame with eyelets for fender/rack mounts and bottle cage bosses (though there are plenty of options if you end up with a frame without cage bosses). If you're not going to use a back brake, get a frame without cable guides.

Road bike with 700c wheels. As much of the bike as possible in good servicable condition - brakes, bars, headset, bottom bracket, cranks, etc. The less you have to replace beyond the rear wheel the better. And make sure it fits.

look for a frame called Pake, there good frames for less $.

I'm kind of against road conversions these days. The nice ones were meant to stay as classic derailleur'd bikes in my opinion, and the trash ones are just that - janky and all that stuff.

But what to look for in a frame... hmm... fit is probably the most important thing, make sure it's in your size range and the measurements match up. Geometry would be next, and that's pretty subjective as far as people's preferences are concerned. Also important is worksmanship, one of the reasons I consider buying a keirin frame to be a 'good investment', because hand built stuff rides like nothing else. Tubing also makes a difference in how things are going to feel - don't get stuck with some ****ty 70's Hi-Tensile road frame steel...

But yeah, I'd recommend a KHS track frame for building somethign up on the cheap. They're factory frames but for the money I think they're okay. Not exactly top-tier but they'll take abuse with that good old Reynolds 520 tubing.

These are all great answers. Thanks for all the quick replies. But am i understading that the only part of the bike that is really a necessity is to have a horizontal drop out? Nothing else (other than fit and quality) really matters.

That will make my search so much easier.

yeah, that's all that matters if you have low standards. go for it. you don't even need horizontal dropouts if you have a white industries eno hub or whatever it is.

Stay away from French and Raleigh frames. Most of these use non-standard parts for the BB and HS. Finding spares can be a real chore.

I'm kind of against road conversions these days. The nice ones were meant to stay as classic derailleur'd bikes in my opinion, and the trash ones are just that - janky and all that stuff.

I disagree with this. Although I almost always prefer to leave a geared bike geared, there are plenty of old, quality road bikes out there that make perfect fixed gear conversions for someone starting out, especially a roadie who has (it would seem) no interest in track riding. Fuji, Nishiki, Trek, and a slew of others turned out well-made, lugged 4130 (same as Reynolds 520) frames all throughout the 1980s which lend themselves perfectly to conversion to fixed gear.

Also, I think it's disrespectful to tell this guy that he has "low standards" because he doesn't want to drop a bunch of money on a bike that won't necessarily suit his purpose.

suite his purpose, lolcano


really, fit and condition are up to you. unless you want a poor fitting, rusted out bike, you should probably pay attention to it.

I disagree with this. Although I almost always prefer to leave a geared bike geared, there are plenty of old, quality road bikes out there that make perfect fixed gear conversions for someone starting out, especially a roadie who has (it would seem) no interest in track riding. Fuji, Nishiki, Trek, and a slew of others turned out well-made, lugged 4130 (same as Reynolds 520) frames all throughout the 1980s which lend themselves perfectly to conversion to fixed gear.

Also, I think it's disrespectful to tell this guy that he has "low standards" because he doesn't want to drop a bunch of money on a bike that won't necessarily suit his purpose.

Yeah, I'd say you're right. I just get a little sad from time to time when I see some very nice Italian steel that was probably originally outfitted with a full Campy grouppo now stripped to fixed gear.

Only you can know what the right frame for you is. Personally, I like a frame that's always up for new things. It's gotta like Thai food and it absolutely has to be a little adventurous in the sack. Communication is important, I know, but it has to know when to just let me be quiet. I'll make up for it later. And it can't be jealous when I look at other bikes. Looking ain't riding. That said, it isn't all about what your frame can do for you. You have to be willing to make some compromises, too. It's a responsibility. You shouldn't lock it up outside for long. You need to clean it. If it's steel, you gotta rust-proof it. Ride it in the rain, you should remove the BB often and re-grease. Take the seat tube out every now and then, lube it up. Show it some love and it'll be with you till the end or until you get hit by a bus.

Yeah, I'd say you're right. I just get a little sad from time to time when I see some very nice Italian steel that was probably originally outfitted with a full Campy grouppo now stripped to fixed gear.

What if you find a frame by itself with no parts, and it's a classic 80's Pinarello frame? Do you spend the money to get all the original campanolo parts or do you spend a lot less and ride the **** out of it? I'll take the latter, I've done it twice now.

Stay away from French and Raleigh frames. Most of these use non-standard parts for the BB and HS. Finding spares can be a real chore.

Raleigh? Really? I've never had a problem with converting/repairing/replacing their parts.

In addition to the above, hold out for an old road bike with nicer tubing. No need to jump on the first gas pipe bike you find with horizontal dropouts.

I don't know, I've been getting way more excited recently with picking up the cheapest "gas pipe" bikes I can find and building them up to give them another go-around. I found a Camel cigarettes frame and just finished building it, I love it more than all my other bikes and I made it all from junk.

Hey, I'm not knocking made-all-from-junk fixed conversions. I just wouldn't recommend one as a person's first foray into this type of riding.

Why not? They build up a real beater POS for cheap as hell then move on building a nice fixed with the knowledge of what they want. What purpose does an $800 fixed gear serve if the person riding it has no clue why it was 800 bucks?

I saw a Dr. Pepper branded Murray on CL the other day. I thought it would make a sweet conversion since it was probably junk, but it was FLASHY junk.

Yeah, I'd say you're right. I just get a little sad from time to time when I see some very nice Italian steel that was probably originally outfitted with a full Campy grouppo now stripped to fixed gear.

Does this really happen though? The few that I've seen like this (a handful of local guys) have been in the hands of serious riders for who bought these bikes new, back when they were racing. They're older now, they're riding modern aluminum or CF bikes, and they're giving their old frames another go as fixed gears. All the Campy parts are sitting in a box in their house; they're not spray-painting them black, shaving off braze-ons, or anything stupid like that.

Looking at a place like Fixed Gear Gallery, it would seem that cheap Japanese "bike boom" frames are the other of the day. I think this idea that people are buying old Italian frames to convert to fixed gear is basically a myth.

[QUOTE=andre nickatina;5237617]I'm kind of against road conversions these days. The nice ones were meant to stay as classic derailleur'd bikes in my opinion, and the trash ones are just that - janky and all that stuff.

QUOTE]

+ 1 get a Pake if you want a decent track bike without the conversion hassles

Pake is really crap, guys. It's ****ing SEAMED, single-butted Cro-Mo tubing, which is absolute garbage, plus it's ugly, and it costs like $225, right?

Bikes Direct was/is selling the Kilo TT/KHS track frame for $175 shipped. It's full 4130 tubing, double-butted, and has a crowned fork. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

But I don't think this guy even wants a track bike to begin with.

+ 1 get a Pake if you want a decent track bike without the conversion hassles

What if you don't want a track bike? Is the pake even one?

Really there is plenty of room between **** and irreplaceable collectors item with frames of any nationality and these frames are generally a lot nicer that comparable ss specific ones even with some decent parts hanging off them. You don't see that many of them owned by people other then old roadies because once indoctrinated hipsters want to say they have something "track" and beforehand they lack the knowledge to pick out the right frame.

As long as you're not hacking stuff off or slamming them against racks and leaving them out in the rain why not convert anything but the rarest of bikes? Theres nothing magical about old record stuff that is lost as soon as you put it in a box.

horozontal dropouts (or as horonztal as you can get)

These are all great answers. Thanks for all the quick replies. But am i understading that the only part of the bike that is really a necessity is to have a horizontal drop out? Nothing else (other than fit and quality) really matters.

That will make my search so much easier.



There are a lot of 70's "Bike Boom" bicycles available at thrift stores, garage sales, estate sales, eBay, Craigslist, etc. Peugeot, Schwinn, Raleigh, Gitane, Motobecane can be found for not a lot of money. Lugged steel, some of it even Columbus or Reynolds or Tange chromoly. But don't worry about the tubing quality so much.

One thing to watch for with older French frames is whether it's still got the bottom bracket. If not, it'll be harder to get a replacement. Once you get into the 1980's, most of the French bikes will have the standard 68mm brackets.

Older road racing bikes used 27" wheels; you can use 700c wheels but if you run brakes you'll need to make sure they have enough reach to work. 27" tires and tubes are still available so if the bike comes with 27" wheels you can still use them.

Spindle length on the bottom bracket is another thing you'll need to pay attention to in order to make sure your chainline is straight. Or you can do what I've done and just get a new bracket and new hub that go together in order to get that straight chainline.

Another thing to watch out for is the seatpost diameter. Some bikes had oddball sizes that can be near impossible to find. There are shim kits available. I've got a Peugeot frame that takes a 24.8mm post; I'll be grinding down a much more common 25mm to make it fit.

You don't have to have a horizontal dropout but it makes life easier. If you get a vertical dropout bike, you can always get the White Industries eno hub.


The Classic and Vintage forum is a good place for info. on frames; what to look for, what's a good deal, what's a piece of junk.


Lurking on eBay and watching different bikes and frames to see what they sell for will give you a good idea of what to go hunting for. You'll notice that hipsters have jacked the prices up on anything that says Track or NJS.

1980 Trek Touring frame, 531 Reynolds lugged frame with nice dropouts. Can take wide tires. Might go for $60-75 on eBay; can be found cheaper elsewhere if you've got the time and patience to look. Good road commuter fixie candidate that will be loads more comfortable to ride than some track bike.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e337/driftwares/ebay4/tframe10.jpg

1984 Pinarello Treviso. Columbus SL tubing. Lugged. Chromed seat and chainstays. Campagnolo dropouts. Mine for $156. I'll be repainting it and reapplying new decals and then building it up fixed.
http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/b1/35/7dd2_3.JPG

1984 John Howard frame built by Dave Tesch. Very nice road frame with aggressive geometry that I'll probably build up with some nice roadie components.
http://gallery.mac.com/bbattle/100030/100_0266/web.jpg

80's Peugeot Iseran Mixte. $25. HLE steel (hi-ten steel) I'm building this one for my wife as a singlespeed. The primer, paint and clearcoat cost more than the frame. Original fork no good so a chrome unicrown from Pyramid will be used. Sugino RD crank and 48t ring, Harris hubs, Sapim Leader spokes to Velocity Aeroheads, Nitto North Road bars with Shimano brake levers, Kalloy quill stem, Dia Compe centerpull brakes, Brooks B-17S saddle, whatever pedals I've got lying around. The rear hub I bought fixed/fixed in case I want to move the wheelset to another build.

Before
http://gallery.mac.com/bbattle/100013/100_0229/web.jpg

After
http://gallery.mac.com/bbattle/100013/100_0304/web.jpg

Why not? They build up a real beater POS for cheap as hell then move on building a nice fixed with the knowledge of what they want. What purpose does an $800 fixed gear serve if the person riding it has no clue why it was 800 bucks?

I'm not advising anybody to spend a lot of money, just to be a little choosy about which old road bike (to be picked up at a garage sale, etc.) to convert.

Raleigh? Really? I've never had a problem with converting/repairing/replacing their parts.

Then you must be working on very new, or very high end Raleighs. For the vast majority of their frames they used proprietary 26tpi threading on the BB and HS.

Here's the Sheldon Brown scoop on it: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html

^ ^ ^ Yep, that's the exact reason I sold my old Raleigh road conversion that I started out riding fixed on. God damn propriety bottom bracket threading was killing me.

There are no sacred cows. Who cares who made it or how it was originally equipped? It wasn't doing anybody any good up in somebodys rafters with a bunch of campy hanging off of it, now was it?

I love my Peugeot gas pipe conversion, cottered cranks and all. I like my IRO better, but I really did get my $80 worth out of the cheapo conversion. Once I swap out those cranks it will be even better. The odd threading really doesn't become an issue unless your cups are shot, FWIW.