Road Cycling - last night's ride (thoughts on spinning, av. speed)

Last night I decided to focus on spinning and keeping a high cadence (at least 80). It took some concentration because I've developed some bad habits on my mountain bike over the years. I ended up doing 24 miles (a nice after-work ride for me) and consciously tried to keep my cadence around 80 on the relatively short but very steep climbs we have around here. I didn't end up spinning quite that high, but I did spin faster than I normally do and really put a lot more power to the pedals. It's a completely different sensation from just blindly hammering and was quite a rush:D Usually on really nasty hills I might drop into the 40's if I'm not focused, but I managed to keep it over 60 most of the way. But I have to admit I had to grab the granny on my triple several times to stay that high. I managed to average 16.6 mph on this ride and it had only 1 or 2 flat spots. It was mostly uphill (gasping along at 6 mph) or screaming descents (hit 42 mph on curvy rural roads with coarse pavement). Is average speed really that important? I mean, some flat stages of the TDF averaged about 35 mph, while the world's fastest rider climbed Mt. Washington at an average speed of about 8 mph. How do you set a standard for a route with such varied terrain? Should I try out for the USPS team tomorrow or should I wait until I average in the mid 20's?;) What are your thoughts on average speed?

I guess it depends on your focus. I always try to get a good avs because, when you boil it down, the bike is a mode of transportation. Might as well get from point A to B as fast as you can.

Now, for training purposes, I try to focus more on heart rate, cadence, time on the bike, etc, but the first two things I tell my wife when I get home are "how far" and "how fast". I don't worry about what I *should* get as far as avs goes, as long as it's as fast or faster than the last avs at a comparable cadence (barring easy days and recovery rides, and even then I compare those rides to other similar rides).

Ultimately, I'm happy with anything over 15mph, but that's because I've been away from the sport for a while. My goal is 18mph over 20 miles, but I'm willing to wait for that because of the fitness benfits in getting there.

As for the varied terrain, you might try riding each stretch "fresh" to see how it goes. One day, save all your energy for the ascent. Another day, go all out of the flats and walk your bike up the hills if you have to. Take all of the numbers and do the math to come up with a "max" avs for that ride. Maybe take 80% of that as high performance and you've got it. You could also get an HRM and see what you avs is at 80-85% of your max heart rate. That'd be a solid workout...

Sorry for the long post. Your thoughts got my thoughts churning :D

PS Like you, I'm used to pushing the big ring on my mtb, so I aim for mid-80s on my roadie (as you did). If I average 70+, I consider that to be a good ride. I completely identify with the low cadence mtb mentality! Getting a roadie has been a big learning curve, but I'm already a better cyclist.

i don't consider spinning/high cadence to be 80rpm. i'm thinking that >90 to 110 is considered a high spin. hills are a personal thing. i like to start with a medium (85rpm) spin, gear up and stand for a bit then start the spin again (at a higher 90+ rpm)

but also try different things depending on the type of ride and type of hill i'm in for. the short of it is: don't get tunnelvision with using one style during your climbs. mix it up and find your best effort.

Originally posted by live311
Is average speed really that important? I mean, some flat stages of the TDF averaged about 35 mph, while the world's fastest rider climbed Mt. Washington at an average speed of about 8 mph. How do you set a standard for a route with such varied terrain? Should I try out for the USPS team tomorrow or should I wait until I average in the mid 20's?;) What are your thoughts on average speed?

well yes, you do see high average speed in the TDF (or any professional cycling) but you also have to remember that drafting is a huge help when you consider the amount of energy is needed to maintain those speeds alone. You also have to take into consideration that not every pro cyclist is a good climber, so the fastest guy on the flats would likely have trouble keeping my pace on a climb while on the flats I'd get blown away.....

make more sense? :D

I agree with RiphRaph. I like to vary on standing and spinning. It hits different muscles. If you stand on a tougher gear, then down shift and spin sitting, it makes the spinning seem alot easier. The sitting becomes a good opportunity to rest. Then you can stand back up and attack again.

Last week, after a week of terrible rides (including a minor case heat exhaustion), I went out for my normal weekend ride. I got outside and the wind was howling. Great. Another slow, demoralizing ride. I decided to ignore the speed and distance readouts on my computer and just look at my heart rate, time, and cadence.

The result was my fastest and longest ride in over a year. Have been following this strategy ever since and my rides have been consistently faster.

So, I think for now, I'm going to keep on ignoring that speed readout. Until I get home that is and can be proud of setting another personal best.

16.6 is pretty darned impressive on fat tires friend. Congrats...

Spinning has been a major concentration for me this year as well. On my road biuke I usually try to keep my cadence above 90 and many times approach 115-120. Typically I can hold 100 for long stretches if I really get into a groove. The result for me is making better progress than ever before. Even when I raced I never really worked a lot on high rpm's. Now it is evident I should have. I raced my mountain bike so it did not seem as big a deal to spin a lot.

I find I can do very well at 100 rpm's and it saves my muscle power for big pushes.

Originally posted by live311
Last night I decided to focus on spinning and keeping a high cadence (at least 80). It took some concentration because I've developed some bad habits on my mountain bike over the years.


Keep working at it. It can take maybe 2-4 weeks to develop a decent spin. Your description of spinning is accurate for a hammerer trying to transition.

For me "spinning" is 90-100 rpm on the flats and 75-85 on the hills. Don't be afraid to use lower gears than usual. I've got a buttload of data from a route I ride at least 2 times a week for the last 6 months. The fastest rides were the ones where I used a 39x23 on the steep hills, those with 39x19 are typically slower.

All of this talk of cadence makes me want to replace my cyclometer. I will probably wait until Christmas though. :-(

Good info on goals though.
-Duncan

Just to clarify, I was on my road bike at the time. I've had it for about 6 weeks and have gotten faster but still have a lot to learn. I haven't ridden in any groups yet (not even with a partner) so I don't know how fast I really am. Unfortunately, the very humid weather we've had in recent weeks has me feeling like I'm breathing through a straw, so every ride feels like I've gone 30% longer than I actually did. I'll try my usual route today (if I can dodge the raindrops, that is) and try to ignore the lack of oxygen and focus on spinning again. In order to keep a deent cadence (decent for me, at least), I find myself switching chainrings a lot. Of course I try to stay in the big ring on the flats. And I have gotten plenty of use out of the granny gear. The hills around here are not especially long (a few hundred yards to a mile) but are very steep (10-15% avg), so I find myself attacking on almost every hill. There are only 1 or 2 that are long enough to necessitate spinning so I try to do them all in the same ride. And my cheap computer does not measure cadence. I am only guessing, but I am pretty sure where 60 is. Thanks for the input, guys. I seem to enjoy roading a lot more than mtb. I'll be whoring this forum a lot:D

"Average" speed is a weak measure of your riding strength and/ or performance. We frequently go out on rides of 40+ miles where we ride constantly at 20-21 mph. We get to the end and find the average is like 17. We ride in a pretty suburban area and there is a LOT of stopping and starting that KILLS your average speed. The TDF (or any road race) averages those speeds, but they have NO stop signs to deal with.

"Average" speed is a weak measure of your riding strength and/ or performance.

I'm kind of inclined to disagree. Though I certainly agree that your ride doesn't compare to the TdF because of stoplights, your average apeed of 17 mph is an accurate measure of your riding strength. Lance, for example, would average much faster even if he hit every stoplight because he has more power to accelerate from the stop lights, etc. You can't just take the best parts of a ride. You have to factor in the negatives as well. This gives you the overall picture. It's all work and it's all factored in. The stoplight may slow your avs, but you also get the rest benefit which gives you a bit more energy for the ride. Do you hydrate more at a light then you would if there wasn't one. So on and so forth.

AVS is not necessarily a good training indicator (though it can be useful for comparing dfferent rides on the same course) but it's not something that should be chucked out. For the average rider, it's kind of the closest thing we have to "work output" w/o a wattage meter...

Ideally I find it best to find the longest stretch of uninterupted road and just do a mini time trial to guage my abilities.

There is an 11 mile stretch of road near me that is perfect for this. I get a very good warm up riding out to it ( about 13 miles) then hammer it for the full distance. I too became disgusted when I did my normal loops on days I was burning up the road only to have long delays due to traffic at intersections that kill my pace/rythm.

I found my average speed to be 1-1.5 mph faster over uninterupted riding. A significant amount over 10+ miles. I still do longer 40-50 milers for time but do not worry quite as much about average speed fluctuations from ride to ride.

I'm kind of inclined to disagree. Though I certainly agree that your ride doesn't compare to the TdF because of stoplights, your average apeed of 17 mph is an accurate measure of your riding strength. Lance, for example, would average much faster even if he hit every stoplight because he has more power to accelerate from the stop lights, etc.

I dunno, sort of yes and sort of no. On a 40 mile ride you are likely to hit more than a few stoplights. So your average speed become meaningless (well, for a truly accurate gauge anyways), here's why.

Let's say the 40 mile ride has 10 stoplights (one every 4 miles).
Ride A - The group rides at speeds of 22mph but stop 10 times.
Ride B - The group rides at speeds of 20mph but you catch them all green.

In the above, Ride A is obviously faster, but will have a lower average speed. Now this is a "perfect scenrio" and not really likely, but there are other real world factors as well, on that 40 mile ride maybe you ride 30 miles without seeing a light, but then catch a light every mile after that which throws your rhythm way off, etc.

So in big numbers avg speed is a good indicator (like a jump from 15-20mph), but if you want to see if you improved by 1mph, it's best to go with no interuptions.

Just my 2 cents.

Andrew

Good points. When I compare avs, I always try to take conditions into account.

Actually, I've started using "BikePro 3.0" (http://www.he.net/~bikepro/bpmain.htm) which creates a "Performance Index" that intergrates AVS, cadence, temperature, wind, heart rate, road difficulty/conditions, etc to give me a single number that compares all my rides, even over different routes...

Originally posted by Ajay213
Let's say the 40 mile ride has 10 stoplights (one every 4 miles).
Ride A - The group rides at speeds of 22mph but stop 10 times.
Ride B - The group rides at speeds of 20mph but you catch them all green.
Andrew

How come it seems like I'm always on ride A instead of ride B? 10 for 10.