"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Is it true that bike racing doesn't really start unti one is a Cat-2?

I received the following quote in the weekend race report from a local club.

But as everybody knows who enters the culture of racing,
racing doesn't really start until one is a Cat-2.[/B]
SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Is it generally accepted that bike racing doesn't really start until one is a Cat-2?

Thanx,

i guess that kinda makes sense.

My guess is that they are referring to team tactics. Though I am just guessing

Hell, I've only been in 3 Cat5 races.... but I sure feel like they were "real" races.

No.

No

Yeah, that's total crap. If you pay an entry fee and someone watches you cross the duct-tape and posts results, that's real racing. I think how much you learn about racing spikes pretty heavily when you're a point-earning Cat 3. The learning continues as a Cat 2, all the way up through Lance's 7th Tour win.

Yeah, that's total crap. If you pay an entry fee and someone watches you cross the duct-tape and posts results, that's real racing. I think how much you learn about racing spikes pretty heavily when you're a point-earning Cat 3. The learning continues as a Cat 2, all the way up through Lance's 7th Tour win.

Well said.

I think it's human nature for those in the upper echelons to think and act like that. Everyone thinks that the category they're in at the time is where it really begins and everyone below that is just toying around. i.e. the 1s are saying "the real racing doesn't start until you're a 1". And the Pros are saying, "the real racing doesn't start until you're a Pro." It's all BS, but it's also all true.

two guys sprinting for a city limit sign makes a race

I do think that getting to Cat 2 is sort of a dividing line. When you get to Cat 2, (and are doing mostly Pro 1-2 races) unless you're incredibly gifted, you can't be successful without team tactics, and a real focus on bike racing as your principle avocation.

Racing Cat 3, Masters, and below is still real racing, but it doesn't have to be quite the same committment.

two guys sprinting for a city limit sign makes a race

maybe, but it would be a boring one.

maybe, but it would be a boring one.

Unless you're 1 of the 2 guys racing for the sign.

I felt that racing starts in training rides before 1 even enters a race. Granted, I don't remember too many tactical Cat 5 races, but there were definitely some organized teams and team tactics in Cat 4 and Cat 3.

The difference is that a strong rider can still often break away and win solo in a Cat 4 or Cat 3 race. It's just way way harder to do well in Cat 1-2 without the help of a team.

I've heard this before from other sources. I believe they're referring to the lack of use of team tactics in the lower categories. I also think fitness has something to do with it too. It seems like a lot of guys in the 4's and 5's are only good for a couple of hard efforts before getting shelled. Therefore, not many attempts at breakaways are made and guys just tend to sit in and wait for the final sprint....not realizing that with a bit more effort, they could possibly breakaway and have to only sprint against 5-10 riders versus 30+.

Unless you're 1 of the 2 guys racing for the sign.

I felt that racing starts in training rides before 1 even enters a race. Granted, I don't remember too many tactical Cat 5 races, but there were definitely some organized teams and team tactics in Cat 4 and Cat 3.

The difference is that a strong rider can still often break away and win solo in a Cat 4 or Cat 3 race. It's just way way harder to do well in Cat 1-2 without the help of a team.

Thats why I love collegiate cycling, there are team tactics even at the B and C level. Riders are actually willing to sacrifice and work for a team leader in pursuit of a common goal.

Thats why I love collegiate cycling, there are team tactics even at the B and C level. Riders are actually willing to sacrifice and work for a team leader in pursuit of a common goal.


Everyone from USC jumping and chasing down the first guy from UCLA to try to go up the road does not qualify as team tactics.

That is a load of crapola. Consider any local 10K run, or even a tri--- they are loaded with "participants." To be in a bike race that even has categories, the bar is already set quite high. It is not an event for the casual "participant." It is not a particularly inclusive environment--- even at cat 5.

Tell whoever wrote that, "real racing doesn't exist in the US" or "real racing is only for pros"---


---it is a bunch of elitist garbage in an already elitist sport. No wonder so many people are afraid to start racing.

That is not the dumbest thing I've read here (see any of DocRay's posts) but it's close.

I've seen some amazing races at the Cat 4 level. I've seen some astounding team tactics at the Cat 3 level.
So in the spirit of Jeff Foxworty, I offer to change this thread to "... you might be in a bike race."

If you used 4 safety pins. . .

If you waited at the starting line for someone to say "Riders Ready" . . .

If you had to wait in line for a volunteer sitting at a folding table to to take your money . . .

---it is a bunch of elitist garbage in an already elitist sport. No wonder so many people are afraid to start racing.


Bike racing is an elitist sport? It grew out of newspaper sales and the blue-collar factory blues. How does that qualify as elitist?

Bike racing is an elitist sport? It grew out of newspaper sales and the blue-collar factory blues. How does that qualify as elitist?

The Titanic was once on the cutting edge of trans-Atlantic travel. Things change, but your oblivion may preclude you from taking notice. I'm trying to keep my tone elitist in keeping with modern American amateur bicycle racing. How am I doing so far?

Knock yourself out. Show up in your tube socks, vintage beer cooler helmet, and 1974 Varsity. Let us know how well you are received.

I know far more people who have "participated" in a marathon or a tri than race bikes. Last I checked, you didn't need a license to run a marathon... you might need to "qualify" to run the Boston marathon, or whatever... but somehow, thousands of people qualify.


Bike racing is an elitist sport? It grew out of newspaper sales and the blue-collar factory blues. How does that qualify as elitist?

Everyone from USC jumping and chasing down the first guy from UCLA to try to go up the road does not qualify as team tactics.

:roflmao:

Knock yourself out. Show up in your tube socks, vintage beer cooler helmet, and 1974 Varsity. Let us know how well you are received.

I know far more people who have "participated" in a marathon or a tri than race bikes. Last I checked, you didn't need a license to run a marathon... you might need to "qualify" to run the Boston marathon, or whatever... but somehow, thousands of people qualify.


You could also buy a license and do 2 or 3 races for the price of "admission" to a marathon. And I'd like to see how you'd put thousands of people on a crit or road course. Two different sports.

I received the following quote in the weekend race report from a local club.

But as everybody knows who enters the culture of racing,
racing doesn't really start until one is a Cat-2.[/B]
SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Is it generally accepted that bike racing doesn't really start until one is a Cat-2?

Thanx,

i read the quote as saying: you don't know if you have what it takes (i.e. put it all on the line) until you get to cat 2 and race at that level.

which, of course, makes sense because you can't really use other top riders as a benchmark unless you're actually racing in the same field.

anyone can get to cat 4 and a lot of people make it to cat 3. cat 2 seems like the first real barrier that seperates those with real talent and those without.

Try the firehouse 50... a thousand racers--- the carnage.


You could also buy a license and do 2 or 3 races for the price of "admission" to a marathon. And I'd like to see how you'd put thousands of people on a crit or road course. Two different sports.

That original quote is pretentious crap that could only come from a self absorbed elitist. It fails on nearly every level to convince.

"But as everybody knows..." is a useless assertion that proves the speakers cluelessness. "Everybody knows" a lot of wrong things fairly often. How often has the conventional wisdom been wrong? Or is the world flat? (Ad Populum Fallicy).

"It takes a special person..." is self-congratulatory and absurd. What the originator was saying was that they were special. (Appeal to flattery/Apple Polishing).

I am sorry that you had to endure such a pathetic rant about how grand Cat 2 racing is but both these assertions were fallacious and meaningless. I wonder if this *****hat thought that "real" racing didn't start until Cat 3 when he was one?


Bike racing is an elitist sport? It grew out of newspaper sales and the blue-collar factory blues. How does that qualify as elitist?

Wow, what an ignorant statement. Fencing grew out of martial combat for one's life, are you going to claim that it isn't an elitist sport too? Elitist attitudes come from many sources and while I agree that not all cycling is elitist your reasoning is absurd.

You could also buy a license and do 2 or 3 races for the price of "admission" to a marathon. And I'd like to see how you'd put thousands of people on a crit or road course. Two different sports.

A marathon is like a big rally (HHH is a good example). Most people are just there to complete it, but there is also a race, and those are in the race get to start at the front just like in a marathon.

I know WAY more people who have completed a century in a rally than who have completed a marathon.

I wonder if this *****hat thought that "real" racing didn't start until Cat 3 when he was one?

When he was a 4 he looked down on 5s, and as a 5 he looked down on rec riders :p

That original quote is pretentious crap that could only come from a self absorbed elitist. It fails on nearly every level to convince.

"But as everybody knows..." is a useless assertion that proves the speakers cluelessness. "Everybody knows" a lot of wrong things fairly often. How often has the conventional wisdom been wrong? Or is the world flat? (Ad Populum Fallicy).

"It takes a special person..." is self-congratulatory and absurd. What the originator was saying was that they were special. (Appeal to flattery/Apple Polishing).

I am sorry that you had to endure such a pathetic rant about how grand Cat 2 racing is but both these assertions were fallacious and meaningless. I wonder if this *****hat thought that "real" racing didn't start until Cat 3 when he was one?



Wow, what an ignorant statement. Fencing grew out of martial combat for one's life, are you going to claim that it isn't an elitist sport too? Elitist attitudes come from many sources and while I agree that not all cycling is elitist your reasoning is absurd.



How does any of this explain that cycling is an elitist sport. Bike racing welcomes all to its ranks and even has a beginner category here in the US (cat5). As long as a person respects the rules and boundaries for safety sake, anyone can join in the fun.

There are many example of elitist sports out there and I don't see bike racing as one.

The Titanic was once on the cutting edge of trans-Atlantic travel. Things change, but your oblivion may preclude you from taking notice. I'm trying to keep my tone elitist in keeping with modern American amateur bicycle racing. How am I doing so far?

:roflmao::roflmao: You're doing pretty good.

You can't ask how you are doing and be an elite elitist.

I would say you have a lot of potential, but I'm too elite to say that. :lol:

I think that quote is meant to say the other categories don't count, because you're just beating other people who would lose against the top group. It's kind of contradictory to group people based on ability and then call it "competition". Still, everyone has to start somewhere, and it's still racing.

How does any of this explain that cycling is an elitist sport. Bike racing welcomes all to its ranks and even has a beginner category here in the US (cat5). As long as a person respects the rules and boundaries for safety sake, anyone can join in the fun.

There are many example of elitist sports out there and I don't see bike racing as one.

It doesn't. Did you read my post? I don't actually assert that cycling is an elitist sport. I merely asserted that your reasoning is absurd. I would claim that some cyclists (such as the original quote) are elitist but that it is not completely representative of the sport (ie, some cyclists are elitist but not all cycling is elitist).

I received the following quote in the weekend race report from a local club.

"It takes a special person to take the (bike racing) challenge to see if one can
compete beyond that hill or stop sign and put it all on the line –
literally. But as everybody knows who enters the culture of racing,
racing doesn't really start until one is a Cat-2."




Only a mug who never got to cat 1 level would say something like that. ;) :p

I have a better war story than this weekend warrior carpark criterium stuff. I know a bloke who won Paris-Troyes as an amateur. Winning it basically guaranteed a pro contract on a French team back in the 70's and 80's. He reckoned the jump from top level amateur in Australia to top level amateur in France was nothing, but amateurs to pros in Europe was about the same as the jump from under 12's to national level amateurs back home. :D

Before I raced bikes I wanted to play football (can you see the connection already?) I was pretty good at my position in the division I played in. My team won our division two years in a row. I traveled on an all-star team to a tournament of teams from the US and Canada (it was like a Champions league thing that they did for a few years in the late 70's). Anyway, I got invited to walk on at a major university. Now, instead of being in a league with a few stars, I was warming up with a filed packed with stars. All had talent in their own right but now it was about the next level. Seeing as this is a bike forum I guess you can figure how it worked out.

So, if we are to give the author the benefit of the doubt and not get defensive perhaps we can look at it from this perspective. I remember making the move to Cat II. Things did change. There were guys working their way to national teams or toward Pro contracts. It was much more serious and longer and faster as well. There was a clear jump. You had to train longer and harder just to be fodder. There were very few guys that were there just for the heck of it. Some, it is true, and the occasional phenom who could come hung over and still force a selection and make it into the winning break but those guys were the exception.

The money that sponsor throw at teams at this level increase dramatically. So do their expectations and the level of professionalism that is expected. Cat 1/2 riders tend to travel greater distances to races and very ofter race against riders with international experience. You can't tell me that this isn't different. There is a change.

As to whether two guys and a town sign is racing? Well it may not be sanctioned but it gets me out of the saddle.

Before I raced bikes I wanted to play football (can you see the connection already?) I was pretty good at my position in the division I played in. My team won our division two years in a row. I traveled on an all-star team to a tournament of teams from the US and Canada (it was like a Champions league thing that they did for a few years in the late 70's). Anyway, I got invited to walk on at a major university. Now, instead of being in a league with a few stars, I was warming up with a filed packed with stars. All had talent in their own right but now it was about the next level. Seeing as this is a bike forum I guess you can figure how it worked out.

So, if we are to give the author the benefit of the doubt and not get defensive perhaps we can look at it from this perspective. I remember making the move to Cat II. Things did change. There were guys working their way to national teams or toward Pro contracts. It was much more serious and longer and faster as well. There was a clear jump. You had to train longer and harder just to be fodder. There were very few guys that were there just for the heck of it. Some, it is true, and the occasional phenom who could come hung over and still force a selection and make it into the winning break but those guys were the exception.

The money that sponsor throw at teams at this level increase dramatically. So do their expectations and the level of professionalism that is expected. Cat 1/2 riders tend to travel greater distances to races and very ofter race against riders with international experience. You can't tell me that this isn't different. There is a change.

As to whether two guys and a town sign is racing? Well it may not be sanctioned but it gets me out of the saddle.[

nope.

stopped reading at the mention of football.

nope.

stopped reading at the mention of football.

Sorry. I couldn't find any nice pictures for you to colour.

I thought racing started when someone yells "GO!"

Sorry. I couldn't find any nice pictures for you to colour.

:hint: :hint: brevity is the soul of wit. :hint: :hint:

this is bikeforums, not the new yorker.

:hint: :hint: brevity is the soul of wit. :hint: :hint:

this is bikeforums, not the new yorker.

Noted. 4 paragraphs = verbosity.

To summerize:

Cat 5,4,3: Fun
Cat 2/1/Pro: Work

Noted. 4 paragraphs = verbosity.

To summerize:

Cat 5,4,3: Fun
Cat 2/1/Pro: Work

better. :D

I thought racing started when someone yells "GO!"

Incorrect.

Racing starts when the guy next to you keeps pedaling harder to get his bike ahead of yours.

better. :D

Thanks. Your approval greatly increases my happiness and sense of self worth.

Thanks. Your approval greatly increases my happiness and sense of self worth.

as well it should.

as well it should.

dick

dick

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/images/smilies/Yawn.gif

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/images/smilies/Yawn.gif

Damn, I wanted to just post a blank space but it has to be at least 2 characters long.

How about this:

*

Damn, I wanted to just post a blank space but it has to be at least 2 characters long.

..

..

vv

vv

Botto, I think you just lost the concise contest.