Training & Nutrition - Climbing hills out of the saddle

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this or not.

I just started consistently riding this year. I've noticed when I try to get out of the saddle on tough hills that my legs feel weak. I can power up them while sitting but can't seem to stand. If I'm at a traffic light, I can stand to get thru the light quickly with no problem. Is this just a training issue, do I need to strengthen my legs more with squats? I do them now but no weights, just lots of reps.

You need to equalize your muscles. It sounds like you have strong quads and weak gluteus maximus or hammies. Squats should help also try inline skates, trampoline, or power slider to help with stability issues. Stability issues mostly come from the muscle on the opposite side of the muscle in use. A way to test this theory is simple. bench press 150 ponds with a straight bar and then pick up two 75 pound dumbells (same weight) and bench press that. notice how much harder it is without the straight bars connection(bringing the A. deltoids and biceps into play). When you stand you take away the seats connection.

You are using different muscles when climbing out of the saddle. Out of saddle climbing uses more fast twitch muscles whereas seated climbing uses more slow twitch muscles. Strengthing will definately help with out of saddle climbing but remember it isn't always more efficient. Yes, adding weights will help to strengthen these muscles as well as just more climbing out of the saddle. Start low and work your way up (no punn intended).

You need to equalize your muscles. It sounds like you have strong quads and weak gluteus maximus or hammies. Squats should help also try inline skates, trampoline, or power slider to help with stability issues. Stability issues mostly come from the muscle on the opposite side of the muscle in use. A way to test this theory is simple. bench press 150 ponds with a straight bar and then pick up two 75 pound dumbells (same weight) and bench press that. notice how much harder it is without the straight bars connection(bringing the A. deltoids and biceps into play). When you stand you take away the seats connection.

What's a power slider? Thanks.

http://www.nettracing.com/board.htm something like this. I have one like it. Very effective.

You are using different muscles when climbing out of the saddle. Out of saddle climbing uses more fast twitch muscles whereas seated climbing uses more slow twitch muscles.

I don't think I agree with that. Different muscles yes, but not fast vs. slow twitch. Where did you get that idea?

Running is my main activity which I think works hamstrings more than quads. I use a balance board and Bosu for stability. I do squats on the Bosu a lot in addition to doing them standing on the floor and that works balance a lot.

Would getting out of the saddle on the flat sections help me to build up slowly to doing it on a hill? When I've tried it on hills, I almost feel like I'm going to collapse but maybe that is because I don't try until I've already tired myself out most of the way up. If I start at the bottom when I still feel strong, would that be better?

Just do it more. Before you're tired. You'll get used to it.

Are you using the correct gear? I usually shift UP one or two cogs right before I stand. Standing in too light a gear makes you spin too fast and tires you out super fast.

Just a thought... can't really tell from your post.

Are you using the correct gear? I usually shift UP one or two cogs right before I stand. Standing in too light a gear makes you spin too fast and tires you out super fast.

Just a thought... can't really tell from your post.

I was doing that at first but realized it wouldn't work well. I still may need to shift up because it does seem too easy. I was on a ride on Saturday with someone that stood for all the hills and his legs were moving pretty slowly, he looked really relaxed doing it. I'll try again tomorrow in a harder gear and see how that works. Thanks

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this or not.

I just started consistently riding this year. I've noticed when I try to get out of the saddle on tough hills that my legs feel weak. I can power up them while sitting but can't seem to stand. If I'm at a traffic light, I can stand to get thru the light quickly with no problem. Is this just a training issue, do I need to strengthen my legs more with squats? I do them now but no weights, just lots of reps.

Your legs are weak - being able to stand and simultaneously pedal takes strength that you don't have.

Just work at it more.

I had the same problem when I picked up cycling again a couple months ago.

What worked for me is to just keep at it.. I get out of the saddle and stay up for as long as I can. I'm slowly getting better and better.. FAR better than I was when I started!!

I noticed the biggest improvement when I started shifting twice to a harder gear and turning the pedals at about 60rpm up the hill.. keep going until I can't anymore than sit back down and grind the rest of the way in a different gear.

I've been recently working on my climbing skills, which I sucked at. I'd be hauling on the flats and get to a small climb and my speed would significantly drop and HR went way up.

What I'm working on now is more spinning on the rollers / small - medium climbs while seated. I'll try to keep at least 100 rpm cadence throughout the climb. Sometimes it may not feel like you're going anywhere, but it's strengthens you aerobic system and you will become better with it at time. On steeper climbs, I'll spin at the bottom and once I get tired of spinning (especially if my speed is decreasing significantly), I'll shift up 2-3 gears and stand on the pedals. The best way I've found to do this is pretend you're going up a set of stairs. Consciously lift your feet from the bottom of the pedal stroke up and over into the down stroke. It is amazing what this does instead of just standing on the pedals and having to push the dead weight from your other leg up and over. I've always had a good pedal stroke on the flats, but never really thought much of it for climbing, but now that I do, it's great and I'm starting to like climbing more. The other thing that I've been doing to get better at hills is incorporate several tough climbs in my normal route that I take and when I get to them I try to climb it one gear harder than I did the previous days. If you're not a strong climber, you'll probably have to shoot for a higher gear every week to two weeks. Anyways, hope this helps.

I hereby nominate this thread for 'S$%test advice of all time on BF Award'.

Shocking.

[QUOTE=Shocking.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever contributed to trying to help someone else out? Doesn't seem like it. Most of your posts are just babbling nonsense.

Shut up and ride.

do more riding while standing that is all

case closed

do more riding while standing that is all

case closed
I concur with Dr. Edzo.

We'd like to put you on a regimen of going up more hills and standing until it hurts. I think you'll see dramatic improvement in a month.

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this or not.

I just started consistently riding this year. I've noticed when I try to get out of the saddle on tough hills that my legs feel weak. I can power up them while sitting but can't seem to stand. If I'm at a traffic light, I can stand to get thru the light quickly with no problem. Is this just a training issue, do I need to strengthen my legs more with squats? I do them now but no weights, just lots of reps.

Why do you feel that you need to get out of the saddle?

Just do it more. Before you're tired. You'll get used to it.

This is the right answer. People ask me how to get strong on hills....go ride hills. You want to be a fast sprinter, sprint. Want to ride long distances, ride long. No magic, no slider needed, no weights. Find hills, put bike in hefty gear, jump out of the saddle and sprint like mad...repeat, repeat, repeat........

One stands when one has to: when one cannot turn the cranks seated (>18% for instance), when one needs a change to rest, or when one wants to attack or sprint.

My problem with standing has always been that I don't stand much on group rides or brevets, because I'm usually at my seated limit and I'll get dropped if I stand. So maybe I'll stand one minute in 10 while climbing and during my rotation in a paceline. That's not enough to build strength to climb really steep stuff out of the saddle.

So yeah, that's it - just do climbs out of the saddle on your training rides. Climb 'til it burns. It helps a little to squat and a little to do the Stairmill or Stairmaster in the gym in the winter. But on your long rides, save it for the steep climbs. Keep your butt in the saddle 90% of the time when climbing, if you can.

If I'm turning the cranks sort of comfortably seated, when I stand I'll shift up a chainring, maybe even plus a cog or two in back. Maybe I spin a little more on the climbs than some.

Shut up and ride.

:roflmao:

Have you ever contributed to trying to help someone else out? Doesn't seem like it. Most of your posts are just babbling nonsense.

Shut up and ride.

Yup

do leg extensions for stronger quads. you use them more when out of saddle. or at least thats what it feels like to me. i climb better out of the saddle so i know i have to do more leg presses, squats, and leg curls. this past winter i went crazy on the leg extension machine and did more power training on squats rather than endurance training.

all the weight training helped me tremendously in the off season.

oh, ride in the winter too. when "riding season" starts next year you will be an animal.

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this or not.

I just started consistently riding this year. I've noticed when I try to get out of the saddle on tough hills that my legs feel weak. I can power up them while sitting but can't seem to stand. If I'm at a traffic light, I can stand to get thru the light quickly with no problem. Is this just a training issue, do I need to strengthen my legs more with squats? I do them now but no weights, just lots of reps.

Really, just train more out of the saddle and you'll get stronger in that position.

... Brad

This is the right answer. People ask me how to get strong on hills....go ride hills. You want to be a fast sprinter, sprint. Want to ride long distances, ride long. No magic, no slider needed, no weights. Find hills, put bike in hefty gear, jump out of the saddle and sprint like mad...repeat, repeat, repeat........

This is the advice I've been living off of for a while. If you want to do better at anything, you have to keep doing it. Keep in mind, however, that slow and steady wins the race. It's going to take some time to work up the strength. Back in the spring, when I stood up to climb a few hills it would kill me. This past Saturday I did some standing on the same hills and I was feeling the burn when I got back home and it felt soooo goooooood :)

As far as weights go, it won't hurt you to do them but it's not necessary. When you're doing those squats, you could throw on some light weights and try do the same number of reps. Keep increasing the weights until you can squat a VW Jetta then go show those hills who's boss :D

Why do you feel that you need to get out of the saddle?

I second that. I don't see any advantage in climbing out of the saddle over climbing properly in a seated position. Climbing out of the saddle is a huge waste of energy, and I've found that it doesn't make me go any faster. Experiment and find out what gear and seated position works best for you. I've found that shifting my weight to the back, shifting gears, and pedaling at a high cadence is much more effective.

I second that. I don't see any advantage in climbing out of the saddle over climbing properly in a seated position. Climbing out of the saddle is a huge waste of energy, and I've found that it doesn't make me go any faster. Experiment and find out what gear and seated position works best for you. I've found that shifting my weight to the back, shifting gears, and pedaling at a high cadence is much more effective.

I disagree - speed is not the only consideration. I find it very useful to climb out of the saddle, it varies the muscles used, is sometimes required if the hill is steep enough, and protects the knees from too much hard mashing, if you don't have a low enough gear to spin up the hill.

I second that. I don't see any advantage in climbing out of the saddle over climbing properly in a seated position. Climbing out of the saddle is a huge waste of energy, and I've found that it doesn't make me go any faster. Experiment and find out what gear and seated position works best for you. I've found that shifting my weight to the back, shifting gears, and pedaling at a high cadence is much more effective.

I disagree. For me personally, I climb much more effectively out of the saddle for short to medium climbs (< 30 min). I read somewhere that the "breakeven point" depends on your weight vs. height. I did the calculation for me and my result fell on the side of standing. Sorry don't remember where I saw the article...

I also agree that on short climbs I can 'power' through them even when I feel exhausted standing much better than sitting.

I disagree - speed is not the only consideration. I find it very useful to climb out of the saddle, it varies the muscles used, is sometimes required if the hill is steep enough, and protects the knees from too much hard mashing, if you don't have a low enough gear to spin up the hill.

Absolutely, and you can even conserve energy standing. Find the right gear and technique and anyone can climb out of the saddle. Whether you try to go fast or not is up to you.

The OP agreed he should give some other gears a try.

I disagree - speed is not the only consideration. I find it very useful to climb out of the saddle, it varies the muscles used, is sometimes required if the hill is steep enough, and protects the knees from too much hard mashing, if you don't have a low enough gear to spin up the hill.

Well put.

Plus, sitting in one position for hours wrecks havoc on my lower back. Climbing while out of the saddle gives it a nice break. On centuries I frequently am out of the saddle for a minute or two. On my commute the occasional hill reminds me to do the same.

Practice on gentle hills first. Get use to the feeling and then try some short hills. Work on your technique and balance. Practice the transition from sitting to standing and reverse. Be careful NOT to throw the bike back when you stand or you may cause a fall. On long climbs that require pacing you may decide to stay seated and instead of looking at speed, concentrate on keeping a steady spinning cadence. When doing a longer rides I will only stand if I need stay with an established group, if the hill is short or to stretch my legs. If you give up too much, too soon, you will limp home!

I second that. I don't see any advantage in climbing out of the saddle over climbing properly in a seated position. Climbing out of the saddle is a huge waste of energy, and I've found that it doesn't make me go any faster. Experiment and find out what gear and seated position works best for you. I've found that shifting my weight to the back, shifting gears, and pedaling at a high cadence is much more effective.

Climbing out of the saddle is for when I can't go any further seated, not an issue of speed, more because I'm going so slow, I feel like I'll just fall over and I'm in the easiest gear already. Also it helps sometimes to loosen my back if I change positions. I know that is just getting stronger but even when I wasn't tired, I found it hard to ride out of the saddle. I figured out recently that I was in too easy a gear so I was spinning too fast, once I played with the gears a little, I did better.

lighter riders have a much easier time out of the saddle, guys over 200lbs and up typically have a very hard time with it, and it does take practice, then again, some of us lightweights find it almost impossible to redline our HR's while in the saddle :)

Why do you feel that you need to get out of the saddle?

Really, I want to know. There is nothing in the original post that suggests a need to get out of the saddle. Are you not able to keep up? Are you in discomfort? Are you wanting to stand because the other people in the group are?

Really, I want to know. There is nothing in the original post that suggests a need to get out of the saddle. Are you not able to keep up? Are you in discomfort? Are you wanting to stand because the other people in the group are?

more power

more power


The OP didn't say more power was needed. Besides, if you are sitting and climbing at 20 km/h and spinning 100 rpm, you are generating more power than someone standing, at 80 rpm, climbing at 19.9 km/h, all else being equal.

The OP didn't say more power was needed. Besides, if you are sitting and climbing at 20 km/h and spinning 100 rpm, you are generating more power than someone standing, at 80 rpm, climbing at 19.9 km/h, all else being equal.

but all else isn't equal

but all else isn't equal

I could have said, if you are sitting and climbing at 20 km/h and spinning 100 rpm, you are generating more power than if you are standing, at 80 rpm, climbing at 19.9 km/h.

It wasn't a rhetorical question, so nobody but the OP can answer.

I could have said, if you are sitting and climbing at 20 km/h and spinning 100 rpm, you are generating more power than if you are standing, at 80 rpm, climbing at 19.9 km/h.

It wasn't a rhetorical question, so nobody but the OP can answer.

making same mistake over again

it isn't so much about the power needed to go X mph up Y% grade, its about the difference in power tween seated and standing, some of us can climb out of the saddle quite well and for many minutes at a time and its often more comfortable to do so rather than sit, so if you can do it then you do it that way

the other thing here is, those of us that can ride out of the saddle often climb much better than those that can't ride out of the saddle very well, its just another tool in the toolbox so to speak

There is nothing in the original post that suggests a need to get out of the saddle. Are you not able to keep up? Are you in discomfort? Are you wanting to stand because the other people in the group are?

There is no "difference in power between seated and standing", only a possible difference in the ability to produce power.

Really, I want to know. There is nothing in the original post that suggests a need to get out of the saddle. Are you not able to keep up? Are you in discomfort? Are you wanting to stand because the other people in the group are?

There are several reasons to get out of the saddle on a climb. Giving your lower back a break is enough of a reason for me. You can sustain a tempo over a pitch change on a longer climb or pop over a small hill or power climb. You can accelerate a larger gear if you want to put the pressure on someone, you can stand as you crest or to smooth out changes in pitches.

A higher cadence also requires a higher HR. I sometimes stand a small section to bring my HR down (I know this seems counterintuitive). I'm sure others can add to my short list.

There are several reasons to get out of the saddle on a climb. Giving your lower back a break is enough of a reason for me. You can sustain a tempo over a pitch change on a longer climb or pop over a small hill or power climb. You can accelerate a larger gear if you want to put the pressure on someone, you can stand as you crest or to smooth out changes in pitches.

A higher cadence also requires a higher HR. I sometimes stand a small section to bring my HR down (I know this seems counterintuitive). I'm sure others can add to my short list.

I wasn't asking reasons why one might climb out of the saddle, I was asking the OP what his/her specific issues were, because the post didn't go into detail.

I wasn't asking reasons why one might climb out of the saddle, I was asking the OP what his/her specific issues were, because the post didn't go into detail.

a) It doesn't really matter why the want to, since they only asked how to get better at it.

b) They are obviously not going to answer you, so you may as well give up bashing everyone else that tries to contribute.

Nothing helps strengthening your out of the saddle efficiency more than doing more out of the saddle riding. The key here is to continue to push down and pull up on the pedals. I ride alot out of the saddle, even on the flats to keep these muscle groups strong. Every 8-10 minutes I'll rise out the saddle and pedal over at a decent cadence for 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Funny thing is, unless the hills or mountains are really really steep, I prefer to climb seated, but then again I rely on sheer power to climb (I don't have a great power to weight ratio). This is for long sustained climbs not short hills...

I agree that you need to practice until we get used to climbing out of the saddle. I usually stay seated unless the grade gets over 11 or 12%, then I usually climb out of the saddle (steep enough and you have no choice!). On long climbs I do like to stand every so often just to stretch and use slightly different muscles.

Key to using out of the saddle climbing effectively is to learn how to stand and not accelerate your heart rate. There is a real tendancy to start cranking it and tire yourself quickly. Unless you are sprinting for KOM points, learn to stand and keep your heart rate constant.

for me personally I find out of the saddle climbing easier to control the tempo and power output. Also I can control my breathing and keep my heart rate from fluttering like a hummingbird. The one problem I do have is on the lower gradients/ shorter distance climbs where non-climber types can keep the pace very high , I then tend to suffer more because it forces me to stay seated and have very random power outputs which eventually bring a higher heart rate and out of tempo / bad rythm. I like climbs that are long and steep not short and fast. It took me a while but I prefer out of the saddle climbing to staying seated. which one is more efficient? I would say that I suffer much less out of the saddle and I feel like I stay at a better constant. often times out of the saddle nets me a lower heart rate but higher power output. Lactic burn will creep but much easier to sustain and " control " the effort.

I was doing that at first but realized it wouldn't work well. I still may need to shift up because it does seem too easy. I was on a ride on Saturday with someone that stood for all the hills and his legs were moving pretty slowly, he looked really relaxed doing it. I'll try again tomorrow in a harder gear and see how that works. Thanks

I was recently working on this same problem, I found that instead of shifting up, I just coasted my speed down a little then stood up in the same gear, that way I could stay standing for longer periods of time. This pretty quickly built the strength I was lacking and it wasn't long before I was up shifting when I wanted to stand, first 1 then 2 cogs. Now it is common for me to shift up 2 when I stand, depending on the hill.

Just another note, on some hills I can actually make it up faster standing, even on long hills, but it uses more energy and I don't think its worth it to stand for too long. My best time on a local hill (3.5 miles, 1100ft) was done standing nearly the whole way in a high gear, but its very costly.

I personally feel better standing, for some reason I feel less fatigue, but that's probably due to my background more than anything; trail running with lots of big ascents, which are often done walking with long strides on steep stuff (lower cadence but faster) on the bike I feel its best to stay sitting when you can, tho I find that hard to do.

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I was recently working on this same problem, I found that instead of shifting up, I just coasted my speed down a little then stood up in the same gear, that way I could stay standing for longer periods of time. This pretty quickly built the strength I was lacking and it wasn't long before I was up shifting when I wanted to stand, first 1 then 2 cogs. Now it is common for me to shift up 2 when I stand, depending on the hill.

Just another note, on some hills I can actually make it up faster standing, even on long hills, but it uses more energy and I don't think its worth it to stand for too long. My best time on a local hill (3.5 miles, 1100ft) was done standing nearly the whole way in a high gear, but its very costly.

I personally feel better standing, for some reason I feel less fatigue, but that's probably due to my background more than anything; trail running with lots of big ascents, which are often done walking with long strides on steep stuff (lower cadence but faster) on the bike I feel its best to stay sitting when you can, tho I find that hard to do.

I used to prefer standing on climbs but have found that as my power increases, I am more comfortable sitting on steeper and steeper grades. As long as I can still keep turning an even pedalstroke I'm much faster sitting. Once it either gets too steep or I am too tired to keep my cadence up then I will stand. Of course, if I need a burst of power I will stand, efficiency be dammed.