Quote :
2) Smug
I've read a ton of bad snotty attitudes from recumbent riders so I'm liking it even less to be in the same company. But I'm cheap and looking for something under $1000.00 so in many recumbent groups, I shouldn't have an opinion. I think too many people think owning a recumbent is some sort of elite social circle. :


There's lot of good natured kidding back and forth, but most (but not all) of the snotty attitudes I've heard have come from the upright fraternity, especially the "young charger racer types!"
I disagree that some bike racing organization should allow bents - maybe - but I'd bet you that 95% of bikers nave never heard of any racing organizations, and couldn't care less about racing. All they want to do is get out there on nice evenings and pedal around....

Good luck with your $75.00 bike, though. Everyone will agree you get what you pay for! No wonder you want to give up biking! What many have said earlier and I'll echo, is some good entry level bents that could be mass produced and advertised a bit. One of the biggest complaint I hear is "where do you get one of those?" (no LBS around here has them) and "they are more expensive than my department store bike!" (partly because of low volume sales)

Battle Mountain is worth AT LEAST an hour of prime-time ESPN coverage. Package it with some behind the scenes filler material, and it could really pull in the viewers!

I don't know... Battle Mountain, from what I've read about it and from the photos & videos I've seen, looks more like a drag race. And who watches drag races on tv?

Most other recumbent races look like NASCAR.

And the few long distance events that allow recumbents (RAAM, PBP) have little media coverage, if any.

If the recumbent industry wanted to attract the media and a high television viewership, what is needed is an event that is exciting to watch.

Even the drug tainted TdF is fun to watch, if only for the possibility of DF pile-ups, the drama associated with cyclists getting caught doping and roadside fans acting stupid.

Quote :

Good luck with your $75.00 bike, though. Everyone will agree you get what you pay for! No wonder you want to give up biking! What many have said earlier and I'll echo, is some good entry level bents that could be mass produced and advertised a bit. One of the biggest complaint I hear is "where do you get one of those?" (no LBS around here has them) and "they are more expensive than my department store bike!" (partly because of low volume sales)

Between a $75.00 K-mart Special and a high-end machine that costs more than a small house there is a lot of room. You can get a perfectly acceptable transportational ride for under $1,000.00.

I wonder how it would go over if the recumbent industry sponsored a televised race where it was understood that the riders were allowed certain performance enhancement procedures that they would probably try to get away with anyway. I bet that would attract some viewership, since both the bikes and the riders would be tweaked out. HA!

Between a $75.00 K-mart Special and a high-end machine that costs more than a small house there is a lot of room. You can get a perfectly acceptable transportational ride for under $1,000.00.

True - to an extent. But there are now more sub-$1000 bents out there than ever before. People still complain. What's with that?

I wonder how it would go over if the recumbent industry sponsored a televised race where it was understood that the riders were allowed certain performance enhancement procedures that they would probably try to get away with anyway. I bet that would attract some viewership, since both the bikes and the riders would be tweaked out. HA!

Yes, it would attract viewership. It would also blacken the reputation of the recumbent bike industry.

True - to an extent. But there are now more sub-$1000 bents out there than ever before. People still complain. What's with that?

Not that much under $1K.

My Fuji Monterrey cost a little over $600.00, with the Xtracycle conversion another $500.00 or so.

My Trek Mountaineer I got used for $150.00, but I think new would have cost also about $600.00

My Montegue Paratrooper folder cost $550.

Any decent recumbents in that range?

An even bigger problem is that they have to be special ordered; the LBS doesn't stock them, and I'm not about to lay out that kind of money for a 'pig in a poke.'

I believe Actionbent's base models start at $625; however most of the models are over $700 without any upgrades.

Oh, remember that if you buy from Actionbent you have to tack on the price of shipping and the cost of setup and having it checked out by yor LBS.

Well, I don't see why a recumbent would cost more, techinically. It should cost less, isn't it ? Less tubing, less welding. Maybe the seat would absorb these savings, though. Anyhow, if it was not because they don't sell that much, they should be priced about the same as regular bikes. Maybe not at WalMarts to start with, but at least in bike shops along the Specialized and Treks.

In that respect the work that ActionBent is doing is a good step towards having less expensive recumbents. Mind you, I'd like to get an Optima Condor at perhaps $4000, but I'd also like to get a brand new Outback, as well as a brand new house, or one of these fancy sofas, etc...

There are not many bikes made in North America, isn't it ? I mean cheap ones. So we'll have to rely on Asian imports for affordable recumbents. At least one company is making them now. I think that if recumbents would sell more, the price they're being sold for here would drop. If not simply because you'd order 5 containers of them instead of only one.

On the other hand, the market pratices that supermarkets have prevents the 'little guy' from selling bikes. Eg, if the super store does not sell them they return them to you. If you are late by one hour on delivery day, they'll take your bikes at 10% discount, that is, if they do not refuse them.

As being mentioned, official competitions involving recumbents would give a big boost. Moreover, the bikes at competition would have ample space on the rear fairing for sponsor advertisement. I think recumbent races would be entertaining to the average sport TV type.

Apart from that we are not seeing advertisement for bikes - any kind - on TV, so commercials about recumbents would be a totally new hapenning in the TV world (I mean, not informercials - BTW, has AB tried that ?). Combined to a hype about recumbent competitions, this could yield to investments.

Then cops would be aware about these bikes as being very fast and would watch closely these funny bikers. Plain people would start to gossip about those 'fast bikes' and teenagers (you know, the crowd that already ride bikes in every which way) would eventually find it cool. Especially if it can be demonstrated that a recumbent is not only a senior type of thing (not offense to seniors here :-) but can also be a bike with which you can singletrack and do some funny stuff. Which is the case, anyways. Daredevils wouldn't do the same obviously on a recumbent, but at least so adventurous possibilities woudl interest the younger crowd.

Hey, get one of those pop stars to ride recumbents. Or get a politician. Both are anyways in the business for looks ;-)

Underseat steering scares some people off. When I bought my first recumbent, it was a private sale and the seller spent about 15 minutes helping me get used to the underseat steering. If I had been left by myself I probably would have crashed and not bought the recumbent. I had looked at a recumbent a few years before in another state, at a bicycle shop, and the salesman told me to take it out in the parking lot by myself to try it-I could never get started by myself and didn't buy it. If a recumbent shop had a riding area and staff to help people get started, they would sell a lot more.

I see alot of people riding them in the ultra geek mode... Big orange flags mirrors and blinky lights
With the big scraggly beard and big paunch hanging out. Thats the way to sell a bent!
We need to keep it sporty and good looking people. Thats all the public wants now. How good
can I look riding. Not about riding at all......

Battle Mountain is worth AT LEAST an hour of prime-time ESPN coverage. Package it with some behind the scenes filler material, and it could really pull in the viewers!

Personally, it would bring me in. :D But I'm afraid that TV would have a hard time selling most people on watching blobby shapes moving one at a time over several miles of a straight barren course. Enclosed bikes are fast, but they aren't fun to watch. As my step-mother has observed about photos, "I want to see the people."

There's a reason that NASCAR courses tend to be ovals, and its not because the racing is better. Its because the audience can always see the racing. There's a reason why the cars look vaguely similar to the cars on the showroom floor as well.

Race on Sunday, sell on Monday. Henry Ford knew that dictum back in the days of the 999.
http://www.rumbledrome.com/images/barney999.jpg

I think we'd probably be better off at a velodrome with a large number of standard recumbents racing in different classes like Low Racers, SWB, LWB etc. Have the racers mix it up and avoid standard velodrome type of events. Or a set road course similar to SuperBike racing where the racers are identifiable, and pass repeatedly in front of the audience. A professional go-kart track might be great for that. Even a simple local oval dirt track could do it.

My two cents worth:

I've never ridden a recumbent, but it just always looked like an awkward arrangement mechanically. Pedals at one end, powered wheel at the other, handlebars in the middle, steered wheel at the end. You want it low but then have to put little dinky kid-bike wheels on to get it low. It's always seemed to me that recumbent designers couldn't quite get it figured out how to arrange things- thus the different layouts available. It reminds me of the early days of locomotives and autos, where they had some really odd designs before they got the "best" arrangement worked out.

Now, this is my perception. It may be wrong, and you don't need to correct me necessarily. But this is the kind of image that works against sales.

If you haven't seen it, check out Rohorn's bike here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=101803&page=7
You'll note that a) it looks cool, b) is simpler than most any recumbents sold. How well it works and all, I don't know, so maybe it's not a design you want to sell, really. But having recumbents available where people look at them and go "Cool!" would be a major step up from 90% of the designs out there. Another cool recumbent is the one used by the guy in that 1-hour-record video. But I've never seen anyone ride anything like either one out on the street. Get people zipping around in those things and see if interest doesn't perk up a bit. To sell it to a younger crowd, it needs to be the newer faster bike, not the fogeymobile.

One of the major factors mentioned is comfort. I'm perfectly comfortable on a big ol' cushy seat with straight or cruiser-style handlebars. On the other hand, I've never had a desire to spend more than 30 seconds on a hard narrow-seated bike with curled-under handlebars. So yeah, maybe a recumbent is more comfortable than a road bike, but then again, anything short of sitting on a cactus is, too. Sitting here in front of the computer is pretty comfortable, for that matter. :)

Well, I don't see why a recumbent would cost more, techinically. It should cost less, isn't it ? Less tubing, less welding. Maybe the seat would absorb these savings, though. Anyhow, if it was not because they don't sell that much, they should be priced about the same as regular bikes. Maybe not at WalMarts to start with, but at least in bike shops along the Specialized and Treks.

In that respect the work that ActionBent is doing is a good step towards having less expensive recumbents. Mind you, I'd like to get an Optima Condor at perhaps $4000, but I'd also like to get a brand new Outback, as well as a brand new house, or one of these fancy sofas, etc...

There are not many bikes made in North America, isn't it ? I mean cheap ones. So we'll have to rely on Asian imports for affordable recumbents. At least one company is making them now. I think that if recumbents would sell more, the price they're being sold for here would drop. If not simply because you'd order 5 containers of them instead of only one.

On the other hand, the market pratices that supermarkets have prevents the 'little guy' from selling bikes. Eg, if the super store does not sell them they return them to you. If you are late by one hour on delivery day, they'll take your bikes at 10% discount, that is, if they do not refuse them.

As being mentioned, official competitions involving recumbents would give a big boost. Moreover, the bikes at competition would have ample space on the rear fairing for sponsor advertisement. I think recumbent races would be entertaining to the average sport TV type.

Apart from that we are not seeing advertisement for bikes - any kind - on TV, so commercials about recumbents would be a totally new hapenning in the TV world (I mean, not informercials - BTW, has AB tried that ?). Combined to a hype about recumbent competitions, this could yield to investments.

Then cops would be aware about these bikes as being very fast and would watch closely these funny bikers. Plain people would start to gossip about those 'fast bikes' and teenagers (you know, the crowd that already ride bikes in every which way) would eventually find it cool. Especially if it can be demonstrated that a recumbent is not only a senior type of thing (not offense to seniors here :-) but can also be a bike with which you can singletrack and do some funny stuff. Which is the case, anyways. Daredevils wouldn't do the same obviously on a recumbent, but at least so adventurous possibilities woudl interest the younger crowd.

Hey, get one of those pop stars to ride recumbents. Or get a politician. Both are anyways in the business for looks ;-)

I agree with you about the cost of recumbents. Wouldn't it be cool if stores like REI started selling the? Hey, guess what, there are actually three different Taiwanese companies that are selling recumbents through distributers in the U.S. They all used to be part of one conglomerate called China Mascot; however, they have since gone to their own development shops even though they still have agreements to use the production equipment they jointly purchased. Eventually we will see more diverse designs as a result of the split. Actually the bents at the recent 2007 Taipei cycle show are post split bents, hence the lowracer innovations. You know another strategy for advertisement is to get product placement in cool shows used by cool people. Computer companies do that all the time. If people see bents being used in a movie or on TV, then they are going to want them.

What about changing the name ? What do you ride ? A bent. You mean, it's not straight ? Bent on what ? It's not straight, it's bent. You just bought it new and it's bent ? Does it have anything to do with the yearly 'pride' parades ?

'Recumbent' is OK, but 'bent', I think, is not a seller. It's almost like having the word 'gift' in a product name in Germany. 'Gift' means 'poison' in German.

Think of a cool, updated and serious name for these bikes. One that conveys all the qualities that we know. 'bent' surely does not reflect those.

My additional two cents.

Not that much under $1K.

My Fuji Monterrey cost a little over $600.00, with the Xtracycle conversion another $500.00 or so.

My Trek Mountaineer I got used for $150.00, but I think new would have cost also about $600.00

My Montegue Paratrooper folder cost $550.

Any decent recumbents in that range?

An even bigger problem is that they have to be special ordered; the LBS doesn't stock them, and I'm not about to lay out that kind of money for a 'pig in a poke.'

Unfortunately a recumbent shop is a destination, and not just a shop you go to. I drove almost 2 hours to get my Bacchetta Corsa from BentUp cycles in North Hollywood/Encino area. Just planned a Saturday and went. If you can't find anything locally, places like Bacchetta and Hostelshoppe have generous return policies so you don't have to travel to find one. My first recumbent was a Strada, and now I'm on a Carbon Aero, great bikes, lots of fun. There's always used also.

Looks- Anything we’re not accustomed to is odd. Recumbents aren’t popular enough to not be an oddity.
When we see one we can’t figure out if the guy riding it is a geek or some freak. I mean who lies down backward on a motorcycle to go forward? Or, why should I have my legs up in the air when peddling, or why down at a 45 degree on something that’s looks like a chopper wannabe. Most everything about a recumbent is unnatural looking to those used to looking at a conventional bike.
Most consumers if given a choice even if they like what the bike looks like, would go straight for a conventional bike, a conventional bike looks normal a recumbent doesn’t.

Cost- Ignorance by the public including some Bent riders about what a good bike is worth is painfully obvious.
1. You can’t, and I repeat you can’t find a professional new road bike (DF) for under a three grand, to some of you I know that price of a three grand is an insult. I’d say a good pro bike is going to cost over $3,000. The frame alone is a couple grand + and the components another couple grand and more...plus wheels. Hey let’s get with the times; 5-6 grand for a good road bike (DF) is okay.
2. You get what you pay for...
3. Get a Huffy you get a “tractor” (don’t mean to insult any farmers among us).
4. You want a Bugatti or a Lamborghini and you buy a ______________ bike...?
Let’s face the music you get what you pay for...

Marketing- Recumbent sales are somewhat like the Apple computer-- exclusive; PC are sold anywhere and so the prices go down, and don't tell me PC's are junk, I don’t think so and I own an Apple. If we want recumbents to sell get them out there cheap as well as expensive and let anyone who can afford to sell them do so. There is no reason a cheap, piece of junk recumbent can’t be made and sold. And, it won’t bring down the “prestige” of a recumbent any more then Huffy brings down the prestige of a ___________ (your choice of road bike).

Don’t snub the guy who pays three grand plus for a recumbent. You don’t know if he’s wealthy or has been saving his pennies for 5 years.

I love both my Recumbent and DF, they cost me $3000.00 per bike & I’m not a wealthy guy I just put my money were I put my value.

My two cents worth:

I've never ridden a recumbent, but it just always looked like an awkward arrangement mechanically. Pedals at one end, powered wheel at the other, handlebars in the middle, steered wheel at the end.

Yes, well it used to look pretty freaky to have a chain to the back wheel instead of a giant front wheel. But that doesn't mean that all recumbents have to look alike.

I looked at the design you linked to. My first thought was that I could never get it on the bus like I can with my Bacchetta. Then I noticed how long it was, what a long rake the front end had and that the pedals were up front, which makes pedaling it in a corner very difficult and tight turning impossible. It is cool though.

I think that familiarity is a big problem for recumbents. Someone else mentioned the name "recumbent". Its a terrible name. The name is very important. Modern diamond frames were sold as "Safety" bikes. Others are comfort, mountain, racing. They get the message across well. Were I to convey a name, I'd call them car bikes or driver bikes for the similarity of the driving position to a car or just sitting bikes.

I get a lot of questions as I ride mine. This morning's question, at a convenience store, was "Is that as comfortable as it looks?" His tone of voice conveyed that he thought it looked very comfortable. The big wide seat of my Bacchetta does look comfortable. Also, you can put your feet down with recumbents. That appeals to a lot of people. There are compromises to be reached engineering wise of course.

Bikes need to make manufactuer money in order to be massly produced,
bikes need to make retailers money in order to be stocked,
bikes need to suit cosumers' needs in order to be purchased,
bikes need to be well marketed in order for consumers to be interested in purchasing.
What are some of the things that you personally think would get someone interested in buying their next bike as a recumbent?
color choice?
components choice?
TV ads?
website?
dealer support?
price level?

How about a tour de bents? A race ridden on the same course as the TDF with bents?

I Wouldn't it be cool if stores like REI started selling the?

Ace Hardware sold an EZ Tad a while back. But after that one sale no one mentioned that, and when I asked at the local Ace Hardware I was an instant comedien!

Nice to know it CAN be done.

Costco also tried to sell an E-Pod for Zap in 2004- that flopped- never sold even 1; so Zap dropped that e-power velomobile (a.k.a.- Aero Rider)

countersTrike

I guess that bike in the link below looks cool aesthetically, but I would wonder about its practicality as a front-wheel drive vehicle with most of the weight distribution on the rear wheel. I'm trying to imagine climbing even a moderate hill on this thing. In any case, I find that by the time most people get around to buying bents, they honestly don't give a fly about how cool 20- and 30-somethings think they look - of course, my implication being that most people on 'bents are over 40. My guess, btw, is that the proportion of pot bellied / overweight folks pedaling bents would not be much different from that of the overall population of folks pedaling DFs. If you really take advantage of the ease of distance riding on recumbents, you will eventually lose the excess weight.


My two cents worth:


If you haven't seen it, check out Rohorn's bike here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=101803&page=7
You'll note that a) it looks cool, b) is simpler than most any recumbents sold. How well it works and all, I don't know, so maybe it's not a design you want to sell, really. But having recumbents available where people look at them and go "Cool!" would be a major step up from 90% of the designs out there. Another cool recumbent is the one used by the guy in that 1-hour-record video. But I've never seen anyone ride anything like either one out on the street. Get people zipping around in those things and see if interest doesn't perk up a bit. To sell it to a younger crowd, it needs to be the newer faster bike, not the fogeymobile.
:)

This is currently popular for the new riders adult age group in the US, this is how they sell it, you gotta check out the video on link:

http://trekbikes.typepad.com/lime/celebs_love_lime/index.html

If Ellen or Oprah ride a recumbent regularly on their daytime TV shows.. or have Brad Pitt, George Cluney (and the rest of the Oceans XX crew) ride recumbents in their next blockbuster movie, recumbent sales would surely increase.

http://hubcitysports.com/merchant/324/images/site/lime_wmnsilver.jpg

Bump for more discussion.

I generate a lot of interest by kicking roadie butt. When they pull back into the parking lot to find me cooled off, loaded up, shiowered, changed, and having earned a degree online while waiting for them to finish, they are intrigued to say the least :)

Of course, among hard-cored roadies this is ill-advised. I was actually yelled at for passing a paceline at 30mph the other day...."it's too dangerous to pass us" they cried! (and cired, and cried)

Yawn.....ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz......

When you consider that so many people have never even seen a recumbent...I think all it would take is for one prominent person to be widely seen looking cool on a bent and having fun. A sports star, an actor, a popular personality. People will say, "Hey, what's that?!...I want one!" Just need to reach that tipping point.

Great...give the industry a reason to give free recumbents to the super-rich who can damn-well afford anything they want.

This whole thread is a waste of electrons. Do bents cost too much? Design and build a new model, from parts you'd expect to see in a bike shop, then set up a dealer network and sell it for <$500. You want celebrities on 'bents? Buy a couple and give them to your favorite movie stars and talk show hosts. Want 'bent races to promote public awareness? Get the insurance and organize a few! In short, if you think you can do better, do it! Otherwise, quitcher*****ing. All whining does is make you look like a whiner.

awwwww...i'm not a whinerrrr...stop calling me that...

I've certainly had lots of questions about my LWB from users of the local trails. I let them sit on it and their eyes light up over the comfort. People are not familiar with them because they have never seen one in a bike store. I don't blame the stores for not carrying them, they are a real slow seller. High cost inventory that doesn't move. Not what the LBS really wants. bk

This whole thread is a waste of electrons. Do bents cost too much? Design and build a new model, from parts you'd expect to see in a bike shop, then set up a dealer network and sell it for <$500. You want celebrities on 'bents? Buy a couple and give them to your favorite movie stars and talk show hosts. Want 'bent races to promote public awareness? Get the insurance and organize a few! In short, if you think you can do better, do it! Otherwise, quitcher*****ing. All whining does is make you look like a whiner.

Comments like these turn people off from cycling, let alone recumbents.. hardly something I would expect from someone who might have ridden recumbents for years and enthused about cycling in general. Sure winning races are fun, but most of the readers here are just interested in riding, for the joy of pedaling somewhere on their own, whether in comfort of recumbent or DF bikes.

I'm with BlazingPedals on this one...
I don't care how many people ride bents...
I'm happy riding mine...
If someone ask me how I like it I tell them..
"Great stuff"

I think the whole 'bike selling world' is a wank
Me I'm going to sit back and enjoy my ride

Comments like these turn people off from cycling, let alone recumbents.. hardly something I would expect from someone who might have ridden recumbents for years and enthused about cycling in general. Sure winning races are fun, but most of the readers here are just interested in riding, for the joy of pedaling somewhere on their own, whether in comfort of recumbent or DF bikes.

What turns me off is whiners who complain that the world doesn't suit them. I've ridden bikes most of my life, and yes I've had recumbents for 10+ years. But I've been listening to the same c**p for 10+ years, and the only thing that changes is the date. Because the complainers always expect somebody else to fix it. Complaining here, or even offering suggestions here, won't change a thing. If you want to change the world, put your own time and money on the line. I for one would love to hear your success story.

What are the same "crap" that you've been hearing for ten years? Maybe someone new to recumbent has not heard of the same "crap" that you've been hearing and all is new.. I ride because I enjoy riding, going places on my own power, get to new places where I havn't been by pedaling.. I'm not out to win races nor change the world, I started this thread to provoke thoughts about getting the word out for recumbents to general public who are no aware of the binefits of the recumbents over regular DF bikes, the more interest I could generate, maybe, just maybe, recumbent would be more popular one day that LBS actually would stock a sub $500 recumbent with similar componentry of a $500 MTB. That may be a long shot, but it seems to me that the sooner that becomes a reality, all homan powered vehicle would benefit from the development along the way.

Sorry I shouldn't have been so harsh. But it's a common sentiment that we should somehow increase recumbent ridership in the hope that manufacturers will gain some economy of scale and bring the prices down. But in reality, moving production to Taiwan, as many companies have done, brings the cost down about as far as it can go without making compromises that we wouldn't like - for instance using a saddle with a bolt-on back brace instead of a full 'bent seat. In addition to the more expensive seat, you can count on the steering to be more expensive, along with the extra chain, extra idlers or chain tubes, and extra cable housing. Stick bikes have fewer welds, but use more expensive, large diameter tubing. Many bents have as many welds or more than a DF, and many others are monotube but have relatively expensive-to-produce mandrel-bent frame tubes. So don't count on the frames being less expensive either. My take on it is that 'bents will always be more expensive than uprights, at least at the low end of the price range. And even if that weren't the case, complaining here doesn't do anything to change the situation.

Everyone still thinks the $500.00 dollar bent is still possible. I disagree. BikeE went bankrupt selling bents (BikeE CT) at that price range and with the falling dollar, I doubt you could make one for under $900.00 dollars. Face it, you're not going to get a Barron for that price or any high racer.

Heh. I ride with a group of CATted racers every Tues and Thursday. They usually get around our 32 mile loop in around 22 point whatever mph. It has 6 miles of flat at the beginning and end of the ride, and everything in between is rollers that peak to a good steepness so you slow way down near each crest, plus a 1.5 mile long monster hill at gets to above 12% in two places.

My previous best had been right behind them at 21.7. I've finally tinkered with the lowracer enough and gotten enough training and time on the bike in preparation for a 500 mile 4-man Texas Time Trial RAAM qualifier.

Last night I rolled in with a 24.2 avg :). I got yelled at last week for passing the entire paceline of 30 people in one single flyby, and last night they were so pissed n one said a word to me. :)

So don't worry - we're getting noticed here, at any rate :)

I don't think that is the kind of noticability that would contribute to the popularity of recumbent riders among other cyclists.. I tend to stay with the pack, even when I'm well capable of riding with a bunch of hard charging roadies in a paceline, if I see a rider struggling to stay with the paceline at high speed or a slight rise ahead when I'm the second rider in the line, I would give the struggling rider a slight and sustained push just to give the rider enough of a break to catch his breath or enough speed so the guy doesn't drop off the paceline feeling discouraged.
All of us have been there, struggling to keep pace when the heartrate is above 200, lungs are taking in more air that they could but still wasn't enough and legs feel like they've given everything, that's when the least bit of help coming from another rider could inspire ourselves to push beyond the pain and keep going at speed to keep with the pack; that's when you appreciate another person's help the most. Having the capability to blow pass an entire paceline of 30 riders in one single fly by doesn't impress me nearly as much as someone who could offer me help and inspire me to push beyong my own limits when I'm truely struggling.

Run a training video of a cyclist on a bent accelerating easily past conventional road cyclists at bike shops. Overcome some myths:

"Do I have to learn to ride a bike again?

"How do I ride uphill?"

"Will my neck hurt after even a short ride?"

I am so impressed by the techology that, some years from know, I may justify one, but only after a decent folder.

Run a training video of a cyclist on a bent accelerating easily past conventional road cyclists at bike shops.

As I've written before, I don't really care if market share for bents expands or not. But I like these vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBMTcBtzcNY
This is the sign sprint at the end of a 30 mile ride. The group gradually picks up speed along the last 2.5 miles, and by the beginning of the clip they were probably doing 27 or 28 mph. The pass wasn't quite 'easy,' but the the uprights never had a chance.

Overcome some myths:

"Do I have to learn to ride a bike again?

Here's a pic of a first-time recumbent rider testing out my V-Rex, literally a minute or two after climbing aboard (YMMV.) Note the strained expression on his face as he concentrates on staying balanced. ;)
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/blazingpedals/RU07%20pics/Saturday/?action=view&current=DSCN0204.jpg

"How do I ride uphill?"

You have to pedal. Tailgunner's view from a lowracer, climbing Tabor Hill on Hilly Hundred (20% max grade)
http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s219/lowracervk2/?action=view&current=mttabor.flv

"Will my neck hurt after even a short ride?"

Does your neck hurt watching TV in your living room? Honestly, the neck angle when riding an upright is much more unnatural.

I am so impressed by the techology that, some years from know, I may justify one, but only after a decent folder.

Cool. My only advice is, if you want one, don't wait until you're too old to enjoy it.

Why do we care if anyone else rides a recumbent? I always thought if more folks would experience the fun and comfort of a recumbent more people would get out of their Auto Isolation Chambers and start riding a bent and getting back into shape! Then we would have a more bicycle friendly environment for all us to enjoy.
I truly believe we could liberate all those Huffys hanging in garages across our nation when we get $200 a barrel oil and get a trade in program that will give a $50 dollar trade in for your old diamond frame...build it into the price of the recumbent, no I am not a used car salesman. I have given over 3000 interested people their first recumbent ride on our Double Vision tandem recumbent. This lets them focus on the comfort and the fun and doesn't subject them to the twitchy steering and difficulty starting for the novice. One of my popular targets is LBS managers and owners. The twichiness and developing the new starting technique are relatively easy to overcome when the incentive of comfort and fun that they already know are a benefit. Of course the bent tandem is a relatively unrealistic way of introducing folks to bents but might be a viable way for a bent friendly LBS to get folks comfortably bent. Once the inevitable demand surges the lower prices will follow. In the meantime I don't mind being the old fat guy riding my 25 year old Tour Easy daily here in Anchorage where people are amazed that you are riding a bike in the winter let alone a recumbent!

the low profile sketches me out--not visible even with a flag.
Haven't tried one but it seems like power transfer would be
weird vs. an upright wedgie type bike. Not the voice
of experience--just surfing bf.

Something else occurred to me lately. If electric assist bikes (EAB) really catch on, it would only make sense for EAB companies to offer recumbents in their lineup, because the aerodynamic efficiency gains would boost their electric assist performance.

This would in turn increase recumbents' market share.

Interesting, I never thought about the effectiveness of electric assist in recumbent versus upright bikes..
but when considering when a bicycle rider would require or benefit the most assistance from a motor, during uphill climbing; at the speed of regular bicycles or recumbent climbing, the aerodynamic benefit of a recumbent is not as significant.. I don't know if the extra weigh of battery/motor is worthwhile.

Interesting, I never thought about the effectiveness of electric assist in recumbent versus upright bikes..
but when considering when a bicycle rider would require or benefit the most assistance from a motor, during uphill climbing; at the speed of regular bicycles or recumbent climbing, the aerodynamic benefit of a recumbent is not as significant.. I don't know if the extra weigh of battery/motor is worthwhile.

Nobody rides uphill both ways.

Also, an electric assist would help the rider maintain, over a longer period, the speed needed for that recumbent aero advantage, while spending the battery at a slower rate, thus providing a longer assisted ride.

Nobody rides uphill both ways.

What? nobody ride from point A to point B without hills in between?

Also, an electric assist would help the rider maintain, over a longer period, the speed needed for that recumbent aero advantage, while spending the battery at a slower rate, thus providing a longer assisted ride.

I was thinking that electric assist would help overcome the shortcoming of recumbent bikes being slow when compared to regular bikes... but with added weigh of motor, battery, etc.. electric assit might just extra weight that have to be carried up the hill.

What? nobody ride from point A to point B without hills in between?


Here's a more explicit rephrase:

Nobody rides uphill all the way from point A to point B to point A.


I was thinking that electric assist would help overcome the shortcoming of recumbent bikes being slow when compared to regular bikes... but with added weigh of motor, battery, etc.. electric assit might just extra weight that have to be carried up the hill.

If the battery is dead, yes. If not, it helps you go uphill. You, the bike, the motor and the battery.

The same argument could be said of regular bikes with electric assist, yet they're increasingly popular. Moreso than recumbents, since you can buy electric bikes in department stores.

Here's a more explicit rephrase:

Nobody rides uphill all the way from point A to point B to point A.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen, there are people who ride bicycles from point A to point B and never have to return to point A. Most of the rides that I do I try to make it into a loop to return to start rather than having an "out and back" route.

If the battery is dead, yes. If not, it helps you go uphill. You, the bike, the motor and the battery.

The same argument could be said of regular bikes with electric assist, yet they're increasingly popular. Moreso than recumbents, since you can buy electric bikes in department stores.

I don't keep track of bicycles sold in department stores, but I' havn't seen any electric assist bicycles in my local department stores.
I would assume that the main reason electric assist bicycles are being sold in department stores is because they are avaialble en mass via bicycle manufactuers that produce large number of them, unlike recumbent manufactuers that have small production numbers in comparison.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen, there are people who ride bicycles from point A to point B and never have to return to point A. Most of the rides that I do I try to make it into a loop to return to start rather than having an "out and back" route.

Please show me a loop that is 100% uphill. I insist.


I don't keep track of bicycles sold in department stores, but I' havn't seen any electric assist bicycles in my local department stores.
I would assume that the main reason electric assist bicycles are being sold in department stores is because they are avaialble en mass via bicycle manufactuers that produce large number of them, unlike recumbent manufactuers that have small production numbers in comparison.

Exactly.

If recumbents are to go mainstream, I believe it's in both sectors' interest to explore the electric recumbent as a more efficient electric assist bicycle, and market it accordingly.

Why do we care if anyone else rides a recumbent? I always thought if more folks would experience the fun and comfort of a recumbent more people would get out of their Auto Isolation Chambers and start riding a bent and getting back into shape!


I think it's a fallacy to think that a more comfortable bike (recument, in this argument) would entice people to commute. It presumes that discomfort is a major reason everyone drives. In reality, people drive instead of ride because 1. effort required 2. don't want to be out in the weather 3. scared of cars/traffic 4. live too far for bicycle commuting to be practical, and 5. no place to safely park. I don't know about the specific order of those five, but if comfort is a concern, it's certainly below them. The cost and availability of bents may be complicating factors to using *bents* for commuting, but they aren't one of the top reasons people don't commute.

Some random thoughts about this thread:

First, here's a thread from the NY Cycle Club message board, in which some folks indulge in the condescension & stereotyping that so many "serious" cyclists (that is, cyclists who take themselves so seriously, that they can't smile while riding), roadies & triathletes have.
http://www.nycc.org/mb/thread.aspx?b=1&t=10925&tp=1#msg51867
There are a few DF riders on this thread who are more fair-minded, then there's me and another recumbent owner.

Interesting that some folks in this BF thread experience anger from "serious" cyclists who get passed by recumbents. What's that about? Maybe having spent so much on a "serious" bike, and on a "serious" biker's kit, they are embarrassed to be passed by someone on a bike that, in the words of the NYCC thread, looks "silly".

Another random thought: the marketting and popularity of certain kinds of bicycles appears completely mysterious. What explains the sudden popularity of "fixed gear" bikes, despite their limited usefulness for many applications? The sudden pre-occupation with them, and their rising sales, appears to be based on a certain "cool image" factor, and some give the fixie credit for bringing a whole new population of young, 20-somethings into cycling. To me, the whole thing looks kind of random; it may wear off as suddenly as it came about. Who knows, the touring bike, or the recumbent may also enjoy a sudden spurt of popularity. I'd be willing to bet that a large proportion of fixie owners will turn to something far more functional & comfortable, like a touring bike, when they discover the limitations of their fixed gears. More discussion/criticism of the fashion/image aspect of the fixed gear fad here: www.bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com (warning, he also occasionally bashes recumbents, but his main target is fixie riders, so don't go in here unless you bring your sense of humor).

Bike Shops: I used to work for a local chain in New York City. They were a Trek dealer. I was the only person in the company who ever sold a recumbent back then. And that was at a shop that had the lowest sales among 6 stores. A customer came in wanting a comfortable bike. I showed him the usual hybrids, but I had ridden my Vision R40 in that day, and I showed him that too. After much discussion, and much to my surprise, he decided to order the Trek recumbent. A couple years later, I tried to convince the owners to adopt the BikeE line. They told me this long unhappy story about trying to sell Dutch-made "Rolant" recumbents in the 1970s (?). Within two weeks of this conversation, BikeE suffered 2 recalls, and by the end of the year were out of business, so I ended up looking kind of stupid.
But from one of the stories in this threat, bike shop employee attitudes are part of the problem--the guy has 2 recumbents taking up space in the shop, and he acts like he doesn't want to sell them. Having worked in shops & talked to a lot of customers dis-satisfied with how their shops treated them, it's always amazing to me that shop staff sell what they want to sell, rather than finding out what the customer wants.

Image: I think some recumbents look very cool and racy. Other's look so clunky they make cruisers look cool and racy. My daughter thinks my recumbent is cool, and when we ride together, she always wants me to bring the recumbent. Kids think they are cool, so I think a kids recumbent is a great idea. I think one of the November threads on the Recumbent Blog had some kids 'bents.

Rich