Bike heaven... or close.

[LittleBigMan]

any one that attempts to deny portlands' gains in cyclists thru infrastructure and planning for bikes in the transportation mix is delusional.
Yes, I will admit that a concentration of cyclists in a given place (like Portland) can create a cycling community atmosphere that produces increased benefits for cyclists. This, in turn, will help increase cyclists' numbers, which feeds back into the cycling community atmosphere, and so on. There is power in numbers.

The way I see it, if a cyclist is encouraged to ride by the presence of bike facilities, eventually he or she will ride more places more often, if they are also encouraged to use every available roadway, where practical to them.

If they don't learn that roadways without bike facilities are usable to them, bicycling transportation is limited.

However, an increase in cycling in Portland does not necessarily mean an increase in cyclists, any more than an increase in Honda drivers means an increase in drivers in general.

[Bekologist]

I'm all for changing the culture to increase the rate of cycling. I just don't see any reason to believe improving or adding cyclist-specific infrastructure has anything to do with increase cycling rates by any significant degree.

Dude, accept that bike infrastructure has positive effects on bicycling and percentage of bicycling in communities.

Davis, Portland, Seattle, and cities around the world are increasing the viability of bicycling in their communities by the installation of bicycling programs and infrastructure. Portland may have acheived the 'hundredth monkey' scenario due its unceasing commitment to bicycling, head.

what ARE you guys smoking? Little big man, you think more bicycling in Portland does NOT equal more bicyclists? What the?

[LittleBigMan]

what ARE you guys smoking? Little big man, you think more bicycling in Portland does NOT equal more bicyclists? What the?
:lol:

I haven't smoked anything in almost 20 years, Mr. Beck, which, of course, is beside the point (as usual.)

Reread my post, I'll wait for you to catch up.

[randya]

However, an increase in cycling in Portland does not necessarily mean an increase in cyclists, any more than an increase in Honda drivers means an increase in drivers in general.
if your claim is that the same number of cyclists are cycling more individually, as opposed to more cycling being done by more cyclists, I can assure you that you are wrong. btw, bek is correct, your analogy doesn't make any sense whatsoever...

[LittleBigMan]

if your claim is that the same number of cyclists are cycling more individually, as opposed to more cycling being done by more cyclists, I can assure you that you are wrong. btw, bek is correct, your analogy doesn't make any sense whatsoever...
No, Randy, Bek is claiming the increased numbers of cyclists in Portland is due to an increase in new cyclists. I am questioning that claim. The burden of proof is not on me, it's on Beck, since he's the one who's making the claim.

I'm ready to admit I'm wrong, when the evidence is produced (which does not include rants about smoking, epithets like "WTF," etc., which prove absolutely nothing at all.)

[randya]

well, if it's not due to an increase in new cyclists, what alternative do you propose? btw, I've seen the newbies on bikes all over town, and I can assure you that it's true.

[LittleBigMan]

well, if it's not due to an increase in new cyclists, what alternative do you propose? btw, I've seen the newbies on bikes all over town, and I can assure you that it's true.
I've seen newbies on bikes all over town, too.

I propose it's possible that, according to my Honda analogy you dismissed, that additional Portland cyclists might not be new cyclists, just cyclists new to Portland.

I have no vested interest in proving Beck wrong. I just want you both to show me the money before I buy in.

Hey, despite rampant prejudice against cyclists like me who claim they don't need bike facilities (in Atlanta, nonetheless,) I still ride my bike for transportation with great joy, and will continue to do so no matter what people in Portland do, no matter what people on these forums think.

If these forums died tomorrow, I'd still be riding my bike, as usual. :D

(What?? No bike lanes?? :eek: )

[Bekologist]

:roflmao:

and none of this affects bicycling increases in Finland and government efforts at encouraging bicycling as transportation by, you guessed it, bicycling infrastructure.

I'm jealous, genec.

[LittleBigMan]

Actually, I'm very happy for the cyclists in Finland. I'm also happy for Mr. Beck, since he likes his cycling environment.

I'm happy here in Atlanta, too. And if they ever successfully implement a real bicycle freeway here, I would probably use it with pride.

But I'm a realist, so I'll keep using the road until future generations shed their automobile addiction enough to dedicate their tax dollars to bicycle freeways.

Gene, do you see bike lanes in Finland?

[Bekologist]

Seattle has 3% bike laned roadways.



I propose it's possible that, according to my Honda analogy you dismissed, that additional Portland cyclists might not be new cyclists, just cyclists new to Portland.



hawhawhaw. :rolleyes:

Finland appears to be influencing and encouraging bicycling thru, yep, bicycling infrastructure.

And Nokian studded tires are made in Finland....just looked at the pair I've got in the living room.....

I bet there's a lot of year round bicycling in Finland, despite the harsh climate.

[LittleBigMan]

Seattle has 3% bike laned roadways.



hawhawhaw. :rolleyes:

Finland appears to be influencing and encouraging bicycling thru, yep, bicycling infrastructure.

And Nokian studded tires are made in Finland....just looked at the pair I've got in the living room.....

I bet there's a lot of year round bicycling in Finland, despite the harsh climate.

I think it's great they're enjoying their cycling, whatever climate.

You have sidestepped my quesion. It doesn't matter.

[Teme]

We don't have bike lanes at all (or very little). They rather put us to ride with predestians than cars, which has positive and negative sides. I've began to say about one street at Helsinkin:"It's like riding at the forest - the biggest difference is that the trees are moving around." Quite often the sepration between walkers and riders is supposed to be clear, but still walking people are jumping to the wrong places. ;)

Oh well.. I'll try to document with photos some commuting routes at Helsinki and Espoo. I finally got new bike and getting a lot of km's with it is at quite high on my priorities. Unfortunately I don't have cable to fetch data from GPS to computer, but I will still try to use Google maps as much as possible. If I get time to do that, I'll write instructions how anyone can do the same.

Teme

[genec]

Consider this concept: what about a possible greater return for investment... what if say 12% of transit funds were devoted to cycling and serious paths were designed for transit... and the result was a 20% reduction in motor traffic, would not then those funds diverted to cycling be considered an excellent motor traffic investment?

Of course it is all speculation... but what if?

[genec]

Actually, I'm very happy for the cyclists in Finland. I'm also happy for Mr. Beck, since he likes his cycling environment.

I'm happy here in Atlanta, too. And if they ever successfully implement a real bicycle freeway here, I would probably use it with pride.

But I'm a realist, so I'll keep using the road until future generations shed their automobile addiction enough to dedicate their tax dollars to bicycle freeways.

Gene, do you see bike lanes in Finland?

Not a single bike lane. Just wide wonderful paths that went everywhere... these were nothing like the path infrastructure that one may find in a few isolated places in the US, this was a complete network of paths.

I am sure the laws and the commitment of the people in Finland also helped their cycling situation, as well as the cost of buying and maintaining a car which are more expensive there, according to the engineers I worked with... so there may be a touch of "something" to HH's argument. But the bottom line is that his and others' arguments will never allow a "grand experiment" to take place...

What if a relatively small portion of transit investment returned a greater benefit? Or do we just keep on making wider Freeways?

[genec]

We don't have bike lanes at all (or very little). They rather put us to ride with predestians than cars, which has positive and negative sides. I've began to say about one street at Helsinkin:"It's like riding at the forest - the biggest difference is that the trees are moving around." Quite often the sepration between walkers and riders is supposed to be clear, but still walking people are jumping to the wrong places. ;)

Oh well.. I'll try to document with photos some commuting routes at Helsinki and Espoo. I finally got new bike and getting a lot of km's with it is at quite high on my priorities. Unfortunately I don't have cable to fetch data from GPS to computer, but I will still try to use Google maps as much as possible. If I get time to do that, I'll write instructions how anyone can do the same.

Teme

I had a great time in your country, and I doubt any of my US countrymen can even envision or fully relate to the wonderful network of bike paths you have over there. I know that if I get another chance to visit, I am bringing a hat and gloves so I can enjoy those paths no matter what the weather situation... they were simply fantastic.

Kiitos.

[genec]

BTW did you guys happen to notice the EU Friday Bikeday... every Friday is being promoted as bike day... not just a single day a year; but EVERY Friday. That is a commitment by the governments to try to increase cycling.

The goal is to get people to try it, with the thinking that perhaps folks will find it a good thing to do. The various EU governments are promoting this to reduce the use of automobiles. At a minimum, it is sure a step in the right direction.

[genec]

BTW the population of Oulu is 352 per kM^2.

According to wiki, the population of San Diego is 1456.4/km² or over 4 times the population density.

According to a new Thunderhead Alliance (http://thunderheadalliance.org/pdf/benchmarking2007.pdf) report, cycling is increased in areas with higher population density as destinations are closer for shopping and other errands.

Just food for thought.

[Teme]

Last night I realised why we have so much better sidewalks and riding possibilities. In Finland children are supposed to walk or ride to schools as long as distance is below 3km for lower grades (years 7-12) and more at higher grades (years 13-16). The death of kid is so emotionally heavy for whole community, that it's easier for everyone to make sure they can walk easily thru the safe route than to let them walk at dangerous areas.

My daily commuting route is superb example about that. I'll photo it at some sunny day. The children were usually taking the shortest route over the road. So they didn't use tunnel which made about 500m extra walk. So officials just built bridge over the road and made it so, that it goes directly to the school yard. Anyone doesn't have any good excuses why he doesn't use that bridge.

Teme

[genec]

Last night I realised why we have so much better sidewalks and riding possibilities. In Finland children are supposed to walk or ride to schools as long as distance is below 3km for lower grades (years 7-12) and more at higher grades (years 13-16). The death of kid is so emotionally heavy for whole community, that it's easier for everyone to make sure they can walk easily thru the safe route than to let them walk at dangerous areas.

My daily commuting route is superb example about that. I'll photo it at some sunny day. The children were usually taking the shortest route over the road. So they didn't use tunnel which made about 500m extra walk. So officials just built bridge over the road and made it so, that it goes directly to the school yard. Anyone doesn't have any good excuses why he doesn't use that bridge.

Teme

That overwhelming desire to ensure that pedestrians and cyclists have good routes is quite evident in Oulu. I was amazed at all the high quality bridges crossing the water way there.

The first bridge in the pics below was built in 1995 according to a plate on the bridge. Notice how nice and wide and well built it is.

In the picture of the second bridge, notice the scrape marks from snow plows on the deck of the bridge...

The last picture shows a bridge just outside of my hotel room, covering just a short but vital distance.

These are all very nice bridges, typical of what I saw there in Finland.

[LittleBigMan]

Not a single bike lane. Just wide wonderful paths that went everywhere... these were nothing like the path infrastructure that one may find in a few isolated places in the US, this was a complete network of paths.

I am sure the laws and the commitment of the people in Finland also helped their cycling situation, as well as the cost of buying and maintaining a car which are more expensive there, according to the engineers I worked with... so there may be a touch of "something" to HH's argument. But the bottom line is that his and others' arguments will never allow a "grand experiment" to take place...

What if a relatively small portion of transit investment returned a greater benefit? Or do we just keep on making wider Freeways?
I hear your heart. But in the U.S., cars are King. In Finland, apparently not so. My guess is that my home state is larger than Finland in square miles, if not in population. And already, cars are just as dominant as they are across the U.S., since this is our "Manifest Destiny," to drive until there is no fuel left. :rolleyes:

My question is, how do you criss-cross the existing roadways with bike path overpasses and underpasses in dense U.S. urban areas to provide a benefit similar to Finland's that the public would agree to fund?

In my opinion, using the existing roads is more likely to work here. I already have had great success using unmodified roads in Atlanta on a 30-mile round-trip commute for many years, with no changes whatsoever. I have little faith that Finland's model will fly here, but if it did, I'd be the first one to use it and support it (as long as I don't have to yield for every motorist whose path mine intersects with, forget that noise.)

I've already had a taste of local bike paths, cyclists are expected to yield right-of-way to every motor vehicle they come across, yet motor vehicles routinely block bike paths where they intersect the road. But when I ride the road parallel to the path, I am treated equally. Smooth sailing, all the way.

Now there are bike paths that are quite separate from the road, so no intersections occur. Those are trouble-free, and I suspect that's the kind you're talking about in Finland (except for when motorists yield to cyclists--that ain't happenin' here, I doubt it.)

[genec]

I hear your heart. But in the U.S., cars are King. In Finland, apparently not so. My guess is that my home state is larger than Finland in square miles, if not in population. And already, cars are just as dominant as they are across the U.S., since this is our "Manifest Destiny," to drive until there is no fuel left. :rolleyes:

My question is, how do you criss-cross the existing roadways with bike path overpasses and underpasses in dense U.S. urban areas to provide a benefit similar to Finland's that the public would agree to fund?

In my opinion, using the existing roads is more likely to work here. I already have had great success using unmodified roads in Atlanta on a 30-mile round-trip commute for many years, with no changes whatsoever. I have little faith that Finland's model will fly here, but if it did, I'd be the first one to use it and support it (as long as I don't have to yield for every motorist whose path mine intersects with, forget that noise.)

I've already had a taste of local bike paths, cyclists are expected to yield right-of-way to every motor vehicle they come across, yet motor vehicles routinely block bike paths where they intersect the road. But when I ride the road parallel to the path, I am treated equally. Smooth sailing, all the way.

Now there are bike paths that are quite separate from the road, so no intersections occur. Those are trouble-free, and I suspect that's the kind you're talking about in Finland (except for when motorists yield to cyclists--that ain't happenin' here, I doubt it.)

I suspect it would be difficult to retrofit out cities in the same way Oulu is equiped, but certainly the 1% of the transportation budget that goes to cycling is not reducing the congestion on the roads now, and what we do get are "toy paths" in far too many cases.

Really what I would like to see is a serious commitment to cycling as real transportation... that instead of yet another two traffic lanes added to the local freeways, one decent wide path for cyclists is created. A decent path can be made in the width of one car; something about 8-9 feet wide. A commitment to dedicating roads to a interconnecting network throughout town is what I ask. A "Portland plan" with some serious money behind it.

Portland says something like 20% of all local trips are made by bike.... if other municipal areas could increase their local cycling to just 10%, consider what that could do to relieve local congestion.

As it is, our nations' Transportation Secretary believes bike paths are a waste of money; meanwhile, the EU is pushing for Friday Bikeday where everyone is encouraged to ride a bike every Friday.

[genec]

This may explain the conditions in Finland: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070920/lf_afp/environmentsocialcountries_070920151835

Nordic countries take the greatest care of their environment and their people, according to a ranking published on Thursday by the publication Reader's Digest.

Finland comes top of the 141-nation list, followed by Iceland, Norway and Sweden, and then Austria, Switzerland, Ireland and Australia

The US came in 23rd.

[sbhikes]

Yes, Finland is not the US. That is the point, isn't it?

You build an infrastructure that supports cycling and you get a population of happy cyclists. You build an infrastructure that (barely) supports driving and you get a population of frustrated drivers.

And if you are a cyclist who only believes that one type of cycling should be supported -- high-speed weekend recreational riding -- you will never end up with an idyllic system like Finland's which supports true transportational cycling.

I would like to see a system in the US that truly supports transportational cycling. Not racer-boy transportational cycling where triatheletes use their commutes as training opportunities, but just ordinary getting things done transportation that regular people of all ages practice. That system would look like Finland's.

[randya]

...as long as I don't have to yield for every motorist whose path mine intersects with...

I've already had a taste of local bike paths, cyclists are expected to yield right-of-way to every motor vehicle they come across, yet motor vehicles routinely block bike paths where they intersect the road...

(except for when motorists yield to cyclists--that ain't happenin' here, I doubt it.)
1. It's like you haven't read a word Gene wrote


2. yes, we all know that US attitudes and behaviors leave a lot to be desired


3. the way things are today are not set in stone, be the change

[Brian Ratliff]

I've seen newbies on bikes all over town, too.

I propose it's possible that, according to my Honda analogy you dismissed, that additional Portland cyclists might not be new cyclists, just cyclists new to Portland.

I have no vested interest in proving Beck wrong. I just want you both to show me the money before I buy in.

Hey, despite rampant prejudice against cyclists like me who claim they don't need bike facilities (in Atlanta, nonetheless,) I still ride my bike for transportation with great joy, and will continue to do so no matter what people in Portland do, no matter what people on these forums think.

If these forums died tomorrow, I'd still be riding my bike, as usual. :D

(What?? No bike lanes?? :eek: )

Actually, it is equally as unlikely that the increase is solely the result of the same cyclists riding more as it is that the increase is solely from new cyclists. It is very likely that there are elements of both effects in the increase shown in the bicycle bridge counts.

However, having the same cyclists making more trips by bike is just as equally a win as having new cyclists join the fray, no? The "hardcore" transportational cyclists are likely cycling just as much as always - hardcore being defined as having most of their trips being done by bicycle - not much room for increases there. It would be the "occasional" transporational cyclist who is increasing the number of trips by bike (and assuming he or she doesn't have to make more trips than before, correspondingly decreasing the number of car trips he or she takes). A win is a win is a win.

You claim not to have an interest in showing Bek up, but it is terribly obvious that you have just as much of an interest to show that bicycling infrastructure has no effect as Bek does in showing that bicycling infrastructure accounts for the only effect. It is quite surely not one or the other, and the answer lies inbetween with many subtle variables making quite large effects on the system.

[Brian Ratliff]

Gene, interesting pictures and video. After the day I had Friday, it sure would be nice to be on a grade separated path for a change. How does Oulo compare to other European cities which are known for their bicycling ways?

[Bekologist]

no, I know some cyclists are taking up the use of bikes as transportation due to the higher costs of gas- some bicyclists new to commuting come into the bike shop and cite high gas prices.

Seattles' infrastructure has been static and degrading until quite recently and even now not too much in the way of change- Seattle just implemented its' bicycling master plan, and the mayor has been backpedalling on his commitment to it.


However, bike infrastructure has a large effect on encouraging citizens to pick up bicycling. also the number of bicyclists seen on the roads- likely partially due to the vibrancy of local bicycling infrastructure.

That's my take on it. Look to Finland for examples of infrastructure influencing bicycling. ;)

[bmclaughlin807]

I think that people who truly believe that cycling specific infrastructure does not increase the number of new cyclists are delusional.

Have you EVER known ANYBODY that suddenly thought "Hey, I know I haven't ridden a bike in 20 years, but today I'm gonna go down and buy a bike, and ride it to work on a 45 mph multi lane road with no shoulders, path, or bike lane."????

No, they start out on residential roads with very little traffic, roads with bike lanes, or paths. Or they ride on the sidewalk. Then, maybe after a while they start trying to figure out why they see cyclists in the streets with the cars, or on roads that they think are impossible to ride on.

[bmclaughlin807]

As far as Portland getting a large increase in cyclists with very little increase in infrastructure... that was a quote about that particular year... doesn't say anything about whether a lot of infrastructure was added the year BEFORE that... Do you honestly think that if you went out and somehow installed a thousand miles of bike lanes and/or paths overnight that the next day there would be a huge increase in the number of cyclists using it???

No, it takes time for the usage to ramp up. So there's every possibility that the increase COULD have been due to EARLIER infrastructure additions.

Take the bridges in Portland... if they took out the bike lane and instead sqeezed another narrow car lane on the bridge how many cyclists do you think would be tempted to try to use the bridge during rush hour and take a lane to do so? I'd say not very many.

I believe that infrastructure needs to go hand in hand with OTHER measures to promote cycling.

[Dahon.Steve]

Watching those bike paths looked interesting, but how do you know where you're going? I didn't see any signs or very few of them. I guess the people who live there all their lives would know where to go but as a visitor, I'd be lost after five minutes. In one picture, there appeard a fork in the road without any sign stating where each path was going and where!

I'm sure the folks who live there know each path but trying to travel over a long distance requires lots of road signs. Are these paths listed on some GPS? I thought people would have noticed this defficiency for effective transportation requires and extensive road sign system. I didn't see any in those pictures.

Even though our current cycling infrastructure sucks, I can pretty much travel long distances using GPS technology even if I don't know the roads. I can create routes that avoid major highways taking advantage of the GPS. At worse, I can use regular highway signs to get me home.

Still, a cycling infrastructure built for non-motorist is better than nothing. I still think the lack of signs is a major headache.

[Teme]

Some places has signs, some places doesn't have them. At Helsinki are is quite good amount of signs (if they are not stolen or turned to point to wrong direction). So paper map is the "must". Quite many big towns with complex bicycle routes has maps, where the bicycle routes are clearly visible. Those maps are usually available at no price.

And from touring point of view those signs are waste of space they take. I really don't care where the central hospital is, if I want to get out from the town. Last summer we nearly end up to freeway with out bikes when we tried to get off from Riihimäki. At the end we used other route from Riihimäki to Hämeenlinna - it was probably much nicer than the one we planned.

Teme

[bmike]

Watching those bike paths looked interesting, but how do you know where you're going? I didn't see any signs or very few of them. I guess the people who live there all their lives would know where to go but as a visitor, I'd be lost after five minutes. In one picture, there appeard a fork in the road without any sign stating where each path was going and where!

I'm sure the folks who live there know each path but trying to travel over a long distance requires lots of road signs. Are these paths listed on some GPS? I thought people would have noticed this defficiency for effective transportation requires and extensive road sign system. I didn't see any in those pictures.

Even though our current cycling infrastructure sucks, I can pretty much travel long distances using GPS technology even if I don't know the roads. I can create routes that avoid major highways taking advantage of the GPS. At worse, I can use regular highway signs to get me home.

Still, a cycling infrastructure built for non-motorist is better than nothing. I still think the lack of signs is a major headache.



ef·fec·tive
–adjective
1. adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result: effective teaching methods; effective steps toward peace.

seems needing to launch a satellite, create a device that receives signals from them, and software that locates you on the earth is a bit overkill for riding to work or picking up dinner.

what ever did we do before GPS and the internet!

my assumption on the cycling infrastructure is that it serves:
1. local population
2. county or township population (town to town)
3. regional population
4. everyone else

planting yourself on the ground there might illuminate how / why things are done.
a few pics from the internet shouldn't be used to write off a whole system.
effective transportation might mean not needing your GPS, atlas, special shoes, helmet, energy gel, cyclometer, and spandex. it might mean that you are able to head out on whatever steed you have and run errands, meet friends, go to work, exercise, etc.

[genec]

Watching those bike paths looked interesting, but how do you know where you're going? I didn't see any signs or very few of them. I guess the people who live there all their lives would know where to go but as a visitor, I'd be lost after five minutes. In one picture, there appeard a fork in the road without any sign stating where each path was going and where!



I think you need to go back and look at that pic again. Off to the right was a sign that pointed direction and distance to "where you are going."

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=54815&d=1190049212

Plus a very nice extensive map was available in the town square for free. The only problem I had was that the names were so unusual with spelling differences of only a few letters in some cases that was difficult for me to read them and decipher them at speed or even while walking. But that was simply a language issue for me.



I'm sure the folks who live there know each path but trying to travel over a long distance requires lots of road signs. Are these paths listed on some GPS? I thought people would have noticed this defficiency for effective transportation requires and extensive road sign system. I didn't see any in those pictures.

Even though our current cycling infrastructure sucks, I can pretty much travel long distances using GPS technology even if I don't know the roads. I can create routes that avoid major highways taking advantage of the GPS. At worse, I can use regular highway signs to get me home.

Still, a cycling infrastructure built for non-motorist is better than nothing. I still think the lack of signs is a major headache.

You just missed the signs, they were there. Go back and look at that link and look to the right... you'll see the sign. In one of the videos I even show a sign but mention I can't read it.

[genec]

Gene, interesting pictures and video. After the day I had Friday, it sure would be nice to be on a grade separated path for a change. How does Oulo compare to other European cities which are known for their bicycling ways?

The only other places I have been that are "known for their cycling" is France... Paris for instance did not have a network like this. I've not yet been to Amsterdam.

I'll tell you this, I have never seen a network for cyclists as extensive as this, and conversation with others leads me to believe it is like this all over the country.

[genec]

Well here is an interesting report that somewhat counters my view of the "bike heaven" experience...

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/pasanen/helsinki.htm

These somewhat surprising statements are from the report:

A recent study in Helsinki showed that it is safer to cycle on streets amongst cars than on two-way cycle paths along streets

This guide considered pedestrians and cyclists to be a homogeneous group of vulnerable road users, to be separated from motor traffic. This was an appealing principle, but it led to car/bicycle-accidents at at-grade crossings and to bicycle/pedestrian conflicts on cycle paths connected to sidewalks.

Increased cycling does not automatically mean decreased car traffic. Reduction of car traffic probably also requires restrictions in car use, especially in city centres. The Dutch city of Groeningen is a good example of such traffic policy.

[sbhikes]

The only problem I had was that the names were so unusual with spelling differences of only a few letters in some cases that was difficult for me to read them and decipher them at speed or even while walking.

Yeah, there isn't this problems driving the Streets of Santa Barbara what with Carrillo, Cabrillo and Castillo Streets. Not to mention the freeway is N/S but is really pointed E/W.