Foo - Cell phones and Driving?

After
A) Portis' recent thread about Syndey's killer being on Oprah
B) Seeing a lady (with baby in back seat) reading a magazine in steering wheel while driving yesterday
C) Seeing another lady putting on makeup in rearview mirror while driving
D) Seeing a man reading the newspaper in steering wheel while driving....

It got me to wondering how many people would actually support a LAW that allowed people to be arrested for distracting themselves while driving, particularly using the cell phone (even hands free).

If this must move to P&R, then so be it, but it seems to me we "could" have a simple poll without political discussion about it.

Let's see what the numbers on BF show.

NYS has a 50 dollar fine for using a non-hands free cellular device. Also, you can only have 1 ear piece in while on a road way (biking, driving, roller blading, what have you)

Well, if you're going to ban cell phones - even hands free ones - shouldn't you include a ban on conversations all together?

Or radios? While you can let music wash over you, you do need to concentrate on talk shows or news shows, right?

I agree that reading is completely moronic while driving (I've even called the cops when I've seen people with a book propped in their steering wheels driving along at 70+), but I'm still on the fence about cell phones.

Where is the distraction coming from? Is it the conversation or the phone itself? What about 2 way radios like CBs or business radios? Those have been in cars forever!

Maybe my perspective is skewed by the fact that I've used radios in cars for almost as long as I've been driving. Not to mention piloting a plane and talking on the radios.

Then there's eating lunch as you roll along....

NYS has a 50 dollar fine for using a non-hands free cellular device. Also, you can only have 1 ear piece in while on a road way (biking, driving, roller blading, what have you)

Mythbusters (granted, maybe not perfectly scientific) did a test and showed that hands free was no less hazardous than regular and both were about equivalent of drunk driving.

Mythbusters (granted, maybe not perfectly scientific) did a test and showed that hands free was no less hazardous than regular and both were about equivalent of drunk driving.

I think it depends on the driver. But I do love my blue tooth. Not having to hold the phone and worry about a cord does make a difference as it makes it much easier to see what is going on around you. Of course a lot of drivers don't pay attention to that even when they are not on the phone.

It got me to wondering how many people would actually support a LAW that allowed people to be arrested for distracting themselves while driving, particularly using the cell phone (even hands free).Seems like an answer right there. If there are already laws against distracted (or reckless) driving, why add yet another feel-good law to the books when there's already something useful there?

studies show that it doesn't matter whether or not you are on a hands free, when on a cell phone your attention on driving is withdrawn.

This is in contrast to when conversing with someone in the car, the theory is that there is a sort of shared attention within the group. If i'm talking to a driver and i see he/she is trying to turn left at a busy intersection, i'm likely going to let him/her finish before i continue my conversation.

There is no statically significant difference with the phone to your ear and the phone on a hands free device

To tell you the truth I think I see more drivers with phone stuck in ear than without.:(

Driving is a priveldge, not a right. It requires the drivers full attention. I think that the US should take this more seriously. Tickets should be given to anyone doing anything other than driving while operating a motor vehicle on a public road. Reading, writing, cell phone, PDA, eating, make up application. I know that in other countries, drivers are ticketed for being distracted while driving.

UK has a new law concerning using cell phones while driving.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411328-details/Drivers+risk+two+years+in+jail+for+using+their+mobile+phones/article.do

To tell you the truth I think I see more drivers with phone stuck in ear than without.:(They're really easy to notice, what with the swerving all over the road, changing lanes without looking or using their blinkers, slamming on their brakes at the last second, and just generally driving erratically.

They're really easy to notice, what with the swerving all over the road, changing lanes without looking or using their blinkers, slamming on their brakes at the last second, and just generally driving erratically.

I take it you've never driven in Boston...

Around where I live, in a heavy shopping area, and even elsewhere in the city, the cellphone is an almost automatic activity while driving. If you look around, almost everyone can be seen talking on their cell phones while driving. Some people seem to do well at driving normally, but so many other people are clearly distracted. Many times I can tell just by the way the person is driving that they are talking on their cell phone -- usually it's that they are driving very tentatively or slowly, and you wonder why because traffic is clear and you may be in a hurry and have no clue why this driver is holding you up. For awhile I drove around with a bumpersticker that said "Hang up and drive!"

I would fully support a ban on cell phones while driving, because it is far and above the most common distraction. Those other things (makeup, food, etc.) are also distractions but not nearly as prevalent.

However, if any use of cell phones is to be allowed, it maybe should be with a fully-integrated car hands-free system. I have a Bluetooth system on my Audi that auto-syncs with my cell phone and lets me talk hands-free thru the factory audio system, and even make calls from the steering wheel, so I am unencumbered by wires, earpieces, or keypads. I feel much more in control on that than with any type of earpiece (bluetooth or not)

Around where I live, in a heavy shopping area, and even elsewhere in the city, the cellphone is an almost automatic activity while driving. If you look around, almost everyone can be seen talking on their cell phones while driving. Some people seem to do well at driving normally, but so many other people are clearly distracted. Many times I can tell just by the way the person is driving that they are talking on their cell phone -- usually it's that they are driving very tentatively or slowly, and you wonder why because traffic is clear and you may be in a hurry and have no clue why this driver is holding you up. For awhile I drove around with a bumpersticker that said "Hang up and drive!"

I would fully support a ban on cell phones while driving, because it is far and above the most common distraction. Those other things (makeup, food, etc.) are also distractions but not nearly as prevalent.

However, if any use of cell phones is to be allowed, it maybe should be with a fully-integrated car hands-free system. I have a Bluetooth system on my Audi that auto-syncs with my cell phone and lets me talk hands-free thru the factory audio system, and even make calls from the steering wheel, so I am unencumbered by wires, earpieces, or keypads. I feel much more in control on that than with any type of earpiece (bluetooth or not)


To be fair, if hands free were to be the only legal way to use a cell phone while driving, then you should not be allowed to buy a cell phone without a hands free device.

I take it you've never driven in Boston...It has a magnifying effect. ;)

studies show that it doesn't matter whether or not you are on a hands free, when on a cell phone your attention on driving is withdrawn.

This is in contrast to when conversing with someone in the car, the theory is that there is a sort of shared attention within the group. If i'm talking to a driver and i see he/she is trying to turn left at a busy intersection, i'm likely going to let him/her finish before i continue my conversation.

There is no statically significant difference with the phone to your ear and the phone on a hands free device
I've never seen a study, but this is exactly what I was thinking. I'm not generally distracted by a conversation with somebody "in the car". You can generally pause when concentrating and the other person can see why you are pausing and wait for you to continue. But on phone "dead air" is somehow much more distracting and people on the other end will begin to say "hello? chris...you there?".



Driving is a priveldge, not a right. It requires the drivers full attention. I think that the US should take this more seriously. Tickets should be given to anyone doing anything other than driving while operating a motor vehicle on a public road. Reading, writing, cell phone, PDA, eating, make up application. I know that in other countries, drivers are ticketed for being distracted while driving.
Exactly, but unlike "fluff laws", it should be enforced.



UK has a new law concerning using cell phones while driving.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411328-details/Drivers+risk+two+years+in+jail+for+using+their+mobile+phones/article.do
I'm not sure how new that is, maybe its just a stiffer penalty than before. I was in the UK in 2004 and my friend that I was with would not go anywhere near his phone while driving because the penalties were stiff enough to deter him.

It has a magnifying effect. ;)

In Boston, those on cell phones drive normal.

The visual I have is the old Red Skelton show. He demonstrated how a drunk walks (staggering, etc.). Then he showed the same drunk in an earthquake (walked normally). OK, you had to be there. :p

Im for harsher punishment for collisions if cell use is a factor.

I'm not sure how new that is, maybe its just a stiffer penalty than before. I was in the UK in 2004 and my friend that I was with would not go anywhere near his phone while driving because the penalties were stiff enough to deter him.

My son told me about this the other day, so I assumed it was a recent law.

I don't think handsfree (with a single earpiece or speakerphone) is any worse than talking to a passenger in the vehicle. I'm OK with handsfree phones.

Legal penalties I'd like to see enacted and enforced:

Reading while driving: License suspension, vehicle sold at auction.
Makeup application while driving: License suspension, vehicle sold at auction.
Eating (whole meal set out on dashboard like a dinner table) while driving: License suspension, vehicle sold at auction. (after extensive fumigation to remove french-fry stink.)
Text messaging (or other interactive phone/PDA activity) while driving: Shoot driver, leave by roadside with broken electronic device as a warning to others.
Using regular cell-phone: Monetary fine, sliding scale based on length of call. $50/minute should do it.

My son told me about this the other day, so I assumed it was a recent law.

I don't know what the exact law was when I was there, only that my friend was pretty deterred. He seemed almost scared to even pull it out to see who it was. I'm not sure if laws are by city or country, as he was not in London, he lived in Leeds.

KT - I watched a program made in Japan, that used retina tracking technology to show eye movement on screen. A driver was placed in a car, that had a wide angle camera facing out the front windshield, showing the drivers field of vision. The retina tracking stuff then placed a "+" to show were the driver was looking, real time.

When driving undistracted, eyes were constantly scanning road, side view mirror, rear view mirror, etc.

Cell phone call was received. Eye movement almost immediately focused on the center of the picture and then stopped.

It was scary to witness. Made me a believer in not making or receiving calls when driving. I try to avoid use of my cell phone while in my car.

KT - I watched a program made in Japan, that used retina tracking technology to show eye movement on screen. A driver was placed in a car, that had a wide angle camera facing out the front windshield, showing the drivers field of vision. The retina tracking stuff then placed a "+" to show were the driver was looking, real time.

When driving undistracted, eyes were constantly scanning road, side view mirror, rear view mirror, etc.

Cell phone call was received. Eye movement almost immediately focused on the center of the picture and then stopped.

It was scary to witness. Made me a believer in not making or receiving calls when driving. I try to avoid use of my cell phone while in my car.
Did they test regular and hands free? I believe hands free is just as dangerous, but would like to hear of evidence.

I do not recall. also cannot recall if the driver was making or receiving a call. Mythbusters did a show comparing/contrasting driving and alcohol and driving and cell phones. Also showed that cell phones and driving do not mix well.

To be fair, if hands free were to be the only legal way to use a cell phone while driving, then you should not be allowed to buy a cell phone without a hands free device.

Disagree, because there are legitimate uses for cell phones other than while driving. The fact you overlooked this point just goes to show how strong the mental associatation between cell phones and driving has become.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020611071201.htm

brief overview of a similar study

Disagree, because there are legitimate uses for cell phones other than while driving. The fact you overlooked this point just goes to show how strong the mental associatation between cell phones and driving has become.

By NOT requiring hands free devices be purchased with the phone is a rediculous head-in-sand approach.

By NOT requiring hands free devices be purchased with the phone is a rediculous head-in-sand approach.

So you would require the phone and hands-free device to be purchased from same point of sale? Don't like that idea. I might want to get my phone from T-Mobile, and then get on eBay to purchase my headset. Or, I might already OWN a hands-free device and just buy a new phone to replace old phone. Either way, I shouldn't be required to buy one at same place and time. As long as I don't use the phone without a headset while driving, I am fine.

I found the annotated mythbusters article someone mentioned:

Cellphone vs. Drunk Driving
Myth: It is just as dangerous to talk on a cellphone as it is to drive drunk.

A British study that asked subjects to do memory tests, reasoning, and mental arithmetic, found that cellphone use did hurt driving. The study also compared it to drunk driving, though Adam didn't describe the exact results of that comparison.

For this mythbusting, they wanted to focus on the talking aspect of cellphones, instead of dialing, as drivers would some sense to them would dial when the car was not moving.

For the test they used Kari and Adam as the test drivers and they went to Infineon Raceway near Sonoma. The test course had four parts:

Accelerate to 30mph and then stop at a stop sign.
Parallel park
Time trial: average 15mph through the whole course (not faster or slower)
Accident avoidance: while going 30mph, told to switch to left, right, or center lane
Each part was graded by an instructor who was in the car with them.

Sober/Control Run
Both Adam and Kari passed the course, though Kari had a bit of trouble parallel parking.

Cellphone Run
For the cellphone run, Jamie talked to the driver on a cellphone asking three types of questions:

repeat the sentence (e.g. "The driver was stopped for driving 67mph in a 20mph zone")
verbal puzzle "If Jack stole Ann's ball, who's the thief", and the more difficult, "If you see a picture with a diamond, rectangle, and a circle, and the circle is to the right of the rectangle, and directly above the diamond, is the rectangle right above the diamond?"
list five things about a particular subject "Give me five things that are in the interior of your car," "Give me five things that are part of your daily work."
Kari failed, including offenses such as using her elbow to steer and failing over half of the obstacles. Adam failed as well.

FYI: Kari's answers to "give things that are part of your dialy work" included: "Kissing ass" and "doing my hair." Adam's daily work list included the more boring: "drilling and tapping," "making phone calls," "Checking my e-mail," "avoiding phone calls from certain people."

Drunk Driving Run
Both Adam and Kari got their blood alcohol level to just below 0.08 (legal limit), with police officers on hand to do the breathalyzer. Neither Adam nor Kari had eaten, so both were as hungry as they were tipsy.

Kari zipped through the stop sign, but her parallel parking was "one of her best efforts... marginally good." She went too fast through the time trial part and killed a couple cones. She failed again, but not as bad as with the cellphone test.

Adam failed the parking test, and "half failed" the time trial for not looking both ways. Overall he failed as well.

Overall
The cellphone tests were failed by a much bigger margin, though Adam's observation was that you can put down a cellphone -- you can't get instantly undrunk. Also, they tested the drunk driving below the California legal limit -- Adam, at least, has gotten much drunker for MythBuster tests than that.

Confirmed

Disagree, because there are legitimate uses for cell phones other than while driving. The fact you overlooked this point just goes to show how strong the mental associatation between cell phones and driving has become.

I don't dispute the fact that cell phones have their use OTHER than while driving, but while driving, it shouldn't be plastered to your ear. Most of the time..scratch that..ALL of the times I've seen, the drivers were so wrapped up in their conversation that their driving ability was severely compromised. I have sped up to the legal speed limit..rolled down the window...and yelled at the other driver to hang up the friggin' phone..at which I get a quizzical look from the other driver as if they had no idea why someone is yelling at them..COMPLETELY clueless to their surroundings. I work at a medical center and have witnessed while standing at the corner, drivers completely oblivious to a wailing ambulance siren right behind them as their chatting away about inconsequential garbage..

I for one get mad at my wife when she pulls this kinda crap and has scared me when she has run lights while on the phone...and no she is not talking about anything important..just chatting. What has this society come to when this type of convenience has led to utter disregard for other people's lives? Sad state of the world we live in..

Making a law banning cell phone use while driving isn't going to get people to stop anything except hanging up when they see a cop.

Hang around outside a busy bar on a Saturday night. Compare the number of people leaving between 12:00 and 2:00 by their own cars versus taxi. Drunk driving laws don't stop these people from driving home after 4 hours of steady drinking.

The only way I can see to keep people from talking on the phone while driving is to take away the ability. Like putting a chip in the phone and one in the car that designates the interior as a no-call-zone except for emergency numbers only.

By NOT requiring hands free devices be purchased with the phone is a rediculous head-in-sand approach.

I agree with Towlie that your opinion goes to show how strong the connection has become.

There are plenty of reasons one would not need hands-free because they won't be driving.

the person who buys one "just for emergency" or phones purchased for children are just two examples.

Making a law banning cell phone use while driving isn't going to get people to stop anything except hanging up when they see a cop.

Hang around outside a busy bar on a Saturday night. Compare the number of people leaving between 12:00 and 2:00 by their own cars versus taxi. Drunk driving laws don't stop these people from driving home after 4 hours of steady drinking.

Bull. Drunk driving is waaaaaaay less than it was before a law was passed. I know many people who used to drive impaired, but stopped when the law was passed. Not just because it was a law and they could get in trouble, but because they thought if it was true enough to pass a law, they should take the concept seriously.

Same with cell phones, and my friend from UK is a great example. He wouldn't touch his phone while driving because of the law.

The law does deter. It doesn't deter all, or we wouldn't still have ****, murder and burglary for example. But the numbers go down significantly after it becomes law.

Whenever I notice poor driving by someone on the phone, I lay on the horn (and I have a rather loud one :D). I do think that having to hold the phone close to the ear, or to look at it to dial or see who's calling makes it worse. Hands-free helps alleviate some of that, but it doesn't fix the whole problem.

Whenever I notice poor driving by someone on the phone, I lay on the horn (and I have a rather loud one :D).

And I'm sure that make an unsafe situation much more safe. :rolleyes:

First offense: The airbag in the offender's car is replaced by a twelve inch spike aimed directly at their chest.

Second offense: N/A

I hate when people use their cell phones, read newspapers, do makeup, shave, text, browse myspace on their iphones, or anything else like that while driving

BUT, at the same time... I am truly, dearly sick and absolutely tired of the few ruining it for the many. So, while I'd like people to stop being distracted behind the wheel, I'm going to go with NO new laws about cell phone usage while driving. This is the same kind of crap that caused ****ing dodgeball to be banned in schools, FFS.

I think if you do something stupid behind the wheel because you were distracted, you should be made an example of. The law clearly states that when you're driving, you should be focused on the road. If that's not enough laws, there's something wrong.

To all the multi-taskers out there... Driving is not one task. It's several different tasks that your brain is dividing up. Texting is also more than one task as well. Texting and driving at the same time is spreading your attention way too thin to be useful, so something is going to get neglected. At 45 MPH, you cover the entire length of a football field in a matter of mere seconds. Taking your eyes off the road just long enough to read and comprehend a short text message completely takes away your ability to react to your surroundings.

And I'm sure that make an unsafe situation much more safe. :rolleyes:

It happens maybe once or twice a week. I get to tell them, quit being an idiot and pay attention to what's outside your ear. Some people respond it by snapping out of their stupor, but mostly I get very delayed reactions and totally confused looks.

The most annoying to me are people I see leaving the parking lot of the grocery store, already on their phone. You could have called while you were walking around the store, but no, you wait until you get into your car and fasten the seat belt. Then, before you turn the ignition or back out of your spot, you've got the phone pasted to your ear. Freakin' numbskulls! :mad:

First offense: The airbag in the offender's car is replaced by a twelve inch spike aimed directly at their chest.

Second offense: N/A

why do you hate spikes?

To tell you the truth I think I see more drivers with phone stuck in ear than without.:(

Me too. Too bad those phones aren't stuck somewhere else...:p

A few have posted about the existing distracted driving laws that most states have. The problem is the HUGE grey area that these laws have. What's distracted or not could be and often is easily fought. With a specific no-cell-phone law it's black and white. You were using your cell or not.

KT - I watched a program made in Japan, that used retina tracking technology to show eye movement on screen. A driver was placed in a car, that had a wide angle camera facing out the front windshield, showing the drivers field of vision. The retina tracking stuff then placed a "+" to show were the driver was looking, real time.

When driving undistracted, eyes were constantly scanning road, side view mirror, rear view mirror, etc.

Cell phone call was received. Eye movement almost immediately focused on the center of the picture and then stopped.

It was scary to witness. Made me a believer in not making or receiving calls when driving. I try to avoid use of my cell phone while in my car.

I swear most people drive like that when they AREN'T using a cell phone. If the road is clear 5 feet ahead of them, they're GOOD.


Anyway, I do my best to avoid talking on the phone while driving, maybe once a couple weeks I'll get a call that I'll put the phone on speaker, and make it quick. Then again I drive stick, so that car/driving (one in the same) automatically gets more attention than anything else, I can't be lazy about it otherwise it will damage my car without being in an accident.

Anyway, I was thinking of doing the "all cell phone's are banned" vote until skiahh's post. What about truckers with CBs? What about conversations in cars? It seems to come down to personal responsibility as to what is too distracting to the driver, being as too many dashboard lights can be distracting to some people.... I think it should be stiffer penalties for accidents caused while impaired, even minor ones. I hate seeing that soccer mom drive like an idiot, but when it comes down to it, she drives like an idiot anyway, cellphone or not.


Frankly people who are against cellphones usually have very unsafe driving practices themselves, usually involving getting to stressed/pissed off at someone that cut them off or whatever, which you can tell definitely impairs their ability to accurately assess a driving situation, and takes MUCH focus off the road.

Frankly people who are against cellphones usually have very unsafe driving practices themselves, usually involving getting to stressed/pissed off at someone that cut them off or whatever, which you can tell definitely impairs their ability to accurately assess a driving situation, and takes MUCH focus off the road.


I fail to make the leap that people against cell phone use have bad driving habits, but you do bring up a good point of road rage(nothing much to be gained out of it). The person doing 15 over the speed limit on his own volition, in the left hand lane, is still in much better control of his car than the idiot who is doing 55 talking on his cell phone.

Ban cell phone usage when driving FTW..

Bull. Drunk driving is waaaaaaay less than it was before a law was passed. I know many people who used to drive impaired, but stopped when the law was passed. Not just because it was a law and they could get in trouble, but because they thought if it was true enough to pass a law, they should take the concept seriously.

Same with cell phones, and my friend from UK is a great example. He wouldn't touch his phone while driving because of the law.

The law does deter. It doesn't deter all, or we wouldn't still have ****, murder and burglary for example. But the numbers go down significantly after it becomes law.

Agreed. I remember back in the day, everyone drove, drunk (the drinking people anyways), regardless of age.

i read a study in one of my college classes that showed people's reaction time while talking on a cell phone & talking to a person sitting next to them. they were the same.

I fail to make the leap that people against cell phone use have bad driving habits, but you do bring up a good point of road rage(nothing much to be gained out of it). The person doing 15 over the speed limit on his own volition, in the left hand lane, is still in much better control of his car than the idiot who is doing 55 talking on his cell phone.

Ban cell phone usage when driving FTW..
I'm not talking about speeding so much as just plain bad driving practices (changing without checking blind spots is #1, EXTREMELY hazardous, especially for a small car like mine :(, and extremely common between those on cell phones and those NOT on cell phones.)

Not to mention, I've seen video of people thinking they had perfectly fine control, until something happens and they lock their brakes and go sliding in other lanes of traffic sideways that aren't on their cell phone.


Basically, I understand the issue, and yes, I want these idiots to hang up, but at the same time, I'd rather getting your license not being as easy as just showing up with a car and taking a spin around the block. It's part of the "get rid of the bad mindset" instead of just getting rid of the object, the person is still going to be an inattentive dolt.

I fail to make the leap that people against cell phone use have bad driving habits, but you do bring up a good point of road rage(nothing much to be gained out of it). The person doing 15 over the speed limit on his own volition, in the left hand lane, is still in much better control of his car than the idiot who is doing 55 talking on his cell phone.

Ban cell phone usage when driving FTW..

Well, it is good to know that speeding makes me a better driver. I guess it is a good thing that I typically do 10 to 15 over the speed limit while talking on my cell phone.

I'm not talking about speeding so much as just plain bad driving practices (changing without checking blind spots is #1, EXTREMELY hazardous, especially for a small car like mine :(, and extremely common between those on cell phones and those NOT on cell phones.)
I am with you on this.


Not to mention, I've seen video of people thinking they had perfectly fine control, until something happens and they lock their brakes and go sliding in other lanes of traffic sideways that aren't on their cell phone.

Again no argument you are right.. People underestimate stopping distances and speeds of other people. If I had a dollar for everytime a driver cut me off while on my bike. Id be rich ;).


Basically, I understand the issue, and yes, I want these idiots to hang up, but at the same time, I'd rather getting your license not being as easy as just showing up with a car and taking a spin around the block. It's part of the "get rid of the bad mindset" instead of just getting rid of the object, the person is still going to be an inattentive dolt.

I agree with you 100% again. I think the license process is idiotic. Especially the lack of tests for good judgement when exposed to Pedestrians, Bicyclists and the like. Bad driving habits are also much like an epidemic unfortunately :(.

Well, it is good to know that speeding makes me a better driver. I guess it is a good thing that I typically do 10 to 15 over the speed limit while talking on my cell phone.

I didnt imply that in my statement. The speeding driver NOT on a cell phone is at least predictable compard to the driver on the cell phone who is spaced out in la la land.

I don't like cell-phone use in cars, personally believe it's not a safe practice and can harm others, but have a hard time legitimizing it in all situations. Cell phone use while driving in a city or downtown area is downright irresponsible. But talking to someone on an open stretch of highway is a completely different matter.