Cyclist yeild to cars..not the othe other way around

[invisiblehand]

This is what we call a neotroll...
http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg

Ooooo, I have to save this pic for the future.

-G

[FaceThem]

I have to conclude that the OP's riding environment is very flat, straight and without intersections (we already know it's rural and very lightly traveled). That's the only geography where his philosophy is possibly survivable IMO.

Put any number of bends, curves and gentle hills in there (read: sightlines of a lot less than 1/4mi...more like 50-75') and substitute either curbs or 2' downslopes into drainage ditches for nice, wide shoulders and his thesis - as well as person - would be quickly squashed by about Opposing Vehicle #2 or #3.

I encounter only 2 (count them 2) dangerous situations they way i ride and you have mentioned both...cresting a hill..and riding around a sharp curve...i'm ok in all other situations including dump trucks and drunks and young drivers and stupid drivers and speed freaks and fog and rain and snow and sun glare and old medicated seniors and aggressive drivers and txt messaging drivers and cell phone talkers etc etc etc..but cresting a hill is very dangerous..so i go to the right or way on the shoulder so not to alarm any car if it suddenly pops over the hill or around the corner..i am in COMPLETE control of all obstacles flying at me..it feels so good..like i've said before..you couldn't hit me even if you tried.



But to ride like i do you have to be more aware of potential dangers and if you do not also drive

[closetbiker]

..i am in COMPLETE control of all obstacles flying at me..it feels so good..like i've said before..you couldn't hit me even if you tried...

I've hit someone doing as you do (not trying to) and had several other close calls. Every reporting period there are many others who have done the same (and they didn't try do hit those wrong way riders either).

It's a common collision. Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it won't, or doesn't happen

[FaceThem]

The real danger of riding against traffic is at intersections or sidewalk crossings.

Drivers tend to look left at oncoming traffic, right for peds (I know, it's a stretch!), then left again before pulling out.

In limited visibility, a cyclist at speed will be right in front of the car when it takes off into traffic.



You and almost everyone else argues in terms of drivers not seeing me..i don't really care if they do or don't because I SEE THEM and i will change my course or speed according to each and every situation..I am myself a driver for 40 yrs..if a cyclist does not also drive he/she would not last very long riding the way i do.

[LittleBigMan]

FaceThem,

Your fear of overtaking traffic has caused you to adopt a more dangerous riding position.

Do you actually have more room to maneuver? More time to react?

Face it, Face Them, no experienced cyclist (or driver) rides like you do.

[FaceThem]

I'll feed the troll.

So, you're going down the road on the wrong side. You come to an intersection. There's a car to the left about to make a right turn into your path. When people make right turns, they don't look to the right. They're looking for traffic on the left because the right doesn't matter. You're not crossing any lanes. And that my friend, is the scenario of the last moment of your life. Enjoy.


You and almost everyone else argues in terms of the drivers not seeing me..i don't really care if they do or don't because I SEE THEM and i will change my course according to each and every situation..I am myself a driver for 40 yrs..if a cyclist does not also drive he/she would not last a day riding facing the traffic.

[FaceThem]

Aren't you (the OP) the one who actually stops and walks off the road if you see a car coming on a road with no shoulder?

I wouldn't stop if my right mounted mirror showed no on cars..in that case the guy coming at me could easily move out a bit..if my mirror shows a car also coming behind and i've got one coming at me then yes i stop and move over let them both scream past. By checking my mirror i know if the guy coming at me could easily move over when passing me but latley i just switch over to the right side so he doesn't have to move a single inch.

[deathskid5000]

troll treats...

OP: so if you're coming over a hill (or any other dangerous spot) you admit the safest place is on the right side of road? and why isn't this just as safe when the road is less dangerous?

And if you're riding on straight flat empty country roads why not just ride in the middle of the road?

[FaceThem]

2. What makes you think you are the only one who rides on country roads? Ride on the wrong side if you wish, not my problem, unless you get in my way when I am riding on the correct side, in which case you're gonna have a bad day.


Your aggressive response tells me it's very scary out there for you..i yield to all traffic including bikes, skate-boarders, joggers etc...everything.

[deathskid5000]

wow so basically you just walk your bike wherever you're going?

[closetbiker]

... I SEE THEM and i will change my course according to each and every situation..

Not all the time you will. Someone is going to come round a corner and flatten you at full speed. I don't feel sorry for you, but I will for your victim

[FaceThem]

This guy again? I've seen an idiot riding the wrong way on highway seven in Ontario. He was cresting a hill against traffic. He looked like a proper daily cyclist except fo the fact he obviously failed to understand safe road practices. He was also somewhat aged, probably 50+? Perhaps it was this person. I hope you live a long safe life, but rest assured your father's folly dies with you.

I know hwy #7 very well but i would never ride on that kind of road..it would be suicide to ride with your back to that kind of traffic..i ride the quite roads and dirt paths and forest trails.

[deathskid5000]

if you're only riding in "quite" roads and dirt paths, what value do you think your safety theory has for the rest of us who ride on roads with actual traffic/intersections/blind spots?
why should we care if some dude in the middle of bodunk nowhere is riding off into ditches on the left hand of the road everytime a kid on a scooter rolls by?

[FaceThem]

Not all the time you will. Someone is going to come round a corner and flatten you at full speed. I don't feel sorry for you, but I will for your victim


Do you also drive? Because i do and i'm aware of that #1 most dangerous situation (#2 is cresting a hill)

I myself can see if the road up ahead curves..i'm on high alert and will change my path..what does every other cyclist do..they just keep on riding and hope they are visible to whoever is coming at them from behind.

[FaceThem]

I've seen him here twice while I was riding. Once he rode off onto the unpaved shoulder to avoid me. The other time he shifted to his right, to ride in the left of the on-coming (to him) lane.

FaceThem, get a clue, or don't ride. Your dodging all over the road not only makes you unsafe, it also makes things less safe for everybody by your actions being unpredictable to motorists. Think about it, clown. With me on the right side of the road, and you on the left side of the road traveling in the same direction, it gives motorists less room to pass. Not only that, but being that close and traveling in the same direction, motorists might mistakenly think we're together. Your riding is an embarrassment, please stop.

I am dodging all over the road..i'm staying out of everyone's way..but i'm not riding in Markham or Manhattan..butyou raise a good point about me riding on the left with another rider coming up behind on the right and yes it does give motorists less room (although i don't see the difference if i was a right side rider going the other way)..but my RIGHT SIDE MOUNTED MIRROR shows me you the cyclist coming up from behind and i will go on the shoulder or brake so as not to put anyone in any danger..i have been riding and driving for 40yrs and there is not a single dangerous situation you could name that i could not avoid..try and name one...i could name 100 dangerous situations if you ride with your back to the traffic.

[closetbiker]

Do you also drive? Because i do and i'm aware of that #1 most dangerous situation (#2 is cresting a hill)

I myself can see if the road up ahead curves..i'm on high alert and will change my path..what does every other cyclist do..they just keep on riding and hope they are visible to whoever is coming at them from behind.

You're just trying to keep your self occupied on the computer because no one would give you the time of day if you talked like this to them face to face.

A driver is going to come up to the road your riding on, look to his left as he approaces the intersection, it'll be clear and he's going to make a right while not looking to his right and drive right into you. Happens all the time.

Y'know, you can ride where ever you want as long as no one is going to be in that space. Soon as someone else wants that space, there's going to be a problem.

Cyclists competeing for the same, small space of road approaching each other with nowhere to bail is a collision waiting to happen. I see it every day. A wonderful side effect is how when the 2 cyclists collide on the side of the road is, they can fall into the flow of traffic and be hit by a car passing by.

Last time I ran into a bozo like you, I was going to give him a nice shot in the jaw, but when I looked at him lying on the ground, unable to catch his breath after my shoulder drove into him at my 35 kmh and his 25 kmh, I knew I couldn't possibly hit him as hard as I already had. I left him to try to gasp in some air. Punishment enough.

[StrangeWill]

I was surprised how many people around me ride on the wrong side of the road (most of them on the sidewalk), they weren't comfortable enough with their ability to see cars head on to take initiative and take the car side of the bike lane (or the right car lane if there wasn't enough room). I had to take it every time (I have a mirror so I see cars always *shrugs*)

I just figure the experts and statistics have more to say about what is safe and not. I'll take the hint that they designed the bike lanes with all the cyclist signs pointed in the direction of traffic flow for a reason.

Not to mention I'm not going to get hit by people turning left into parking lots that don't expect me doing something illegal (which automatically makes me at fault, no "right of way" for me).

[FaceThem]

Why are you bothering us about this?

If you want the Highway Traffic Act changed, and it would have to be, lobby your MPP or something.

Be sure to have better arguments at the ready than what you've presented here.


I'm talking safety in a Bike Forum's section on Safety..this is one place to start to change peoples thinking..i think i am unintentionally 'bothering' people because deep down they know how terrifying it is on the roads and the very best of us get killed..many many cyclists get killed or are seriously injured..Some of you may think about my views the next time you are riding on a dark rainy road and perhaps you may think about giving it a try and ride in such a way that YOU are judging the situation yourself and not leaving your life completely in the hands of all the passing motorists.

[Brian Ratliff]

I'm talking safety in a Bike Forum's section on Safety..this is one place to start to change peoples thinking..i think i am unintentionally 'bothering' people because deep down they know how terrifying it is on the roads and the very best of us get killed..many many cyclists get killed or are seriously injured..Some of you may think about my views the next time you are riding on a dark rainy road and perhaps you may think about giving it a try and ride in such a way that YOU are judging the situation yourself and not leaving your life completely in the hands of all the passing motorists.

weak.

Tell you what. Do you have any evidence that "your views" are better than the general thinking on the subject? Stats? Studies? Anything?

Anecdotal evidence doesn't qualify. The collective experience of the people on bike forums, all except for one or two ride on the right side of the road, with traffic, tells me that riding in traffic doesn't automatically get people killed. Statistics generally look dimly on riding against traffic, as closetbiker has shown.

So, show me the money, to quote a B rate movie. Do you ride much? How many miles a week? How many years of experience do you have to back your opinion?

And why the devil does it matter what your ideas are if you go on admitting that your ideas don't work in all but a very specific, very narrow, circumstance? Shouldn't you preface your post with a warning that this only works in your narrow circumstance (people who live in a city, and most people do, will never encounter your circumstance) and doing it anywhere else will likely get you killed?

[chipcom]

Your aggressive response tells me it's very scary out there for you..i yield to all traffic including bikes, skate-boarders, joggers etc...everything.

This from the guy who is afraid of what he can't see. :rolleyes: As a driver and a cyclist I am quite comfortable driving and riding according to the rules of the road, while you seem to ride according to the rules of your fears and phobias. Again, ride however you want, ain't my problem unless you get in my way.

[chipcom]

I know hwy #7 very well but i would never ride on that kind of road..it would be suicide to ride with your back to that kind of traffic..i ride the quite roads and dirt paths and forest trails.

Yeah, suicide. I must suck at suicide then, since I haven't been successful in over 40 years. :rolleyes:

Dude, if you want to let your fear rule your life, that is your right...but don't lay your fears on those of us who don't share them...and again, don't get in our way when WE are riding lawfully and according to the rules of the road. If it comes down to a choice of putting myself into a dangerous situation to avoid you, or knocking your butt into a ditch...you're gonna go into the ditch.

[RonH]

Sorry I'm late with my comments but I just ran across this thread.


I ride facing the traffic 99.9% of the time...
What a total and complete idiot!!!


Ever taken the BikeEd (http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/) course promoted by the League of American Bicyclists??

[Bikepacker67]

If it comes down to a choice of putting myself into a dangerous situation to avoid you, or knocking your butt into a ditch...you're gonna go into the ditch.

And you better watch it... CC has been known to send cagers into ditches just by willing it with his mind!

[scarry]

Moron! If I encounter you coming head on, you're going down.

You are endangering every other legally riding bicyclist on the road.

[Bikepacker67]

Moron! If I encounter you coming head on, you're going down.

You are endangering every other legally riding bicyclist on the road.

I feel the same way about this clown... every 6 months when he shows up.

Hey OP... your Daddy was a damn fool and you're his spitting image.

[koine2002]

Everyone wants to feel secure in everything, whether it's riding a bike or in a relationship. The only problem is that what will often bring that feeling of security (or safety) is quite often quite unsafe.

[Allister]

Again, ride however you want, ain't my problem unless you get in my way.

I disagree. Ride according to the rules of the road, or don't ride at all. If everyone started using the roads however they wanted, there'd be utter chaos.

[workingbike]

..lets try this again..
..some actually move a little towards me in protest but i simply move well aside spoiling their attempt to "teach me a lesson". Most of the time i'll simply switch over to the other side of the road giving them the widest possible margin.


A troll and a pratt, so he swtches sides? to the side WITH THE TRAFFIC COMING FROM BEHIND HIM?

.

---Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

So have delusional pratts and trolls.

"Lets try this again"

Lets not. Plonk!

[StrangeWill]

Einstein would be insulted.

[chipcom]

I disagree. Ride according to the rules of the road, or don't ride at all. If everyone started using the roads however they wanted, there'd be utter chaos.

Too late. The number of people who don't ride according the the rules of the road, especially outside the metro areas, has been pretty much a constant for as long as I can remember...going back to the late 60s.

[scarry]

This one kid was coming straight at me (I was riding), going the wrong way. I got a good mouthfull from my camelbak and gave him a nice shower. Was he suprised.:D

[seosamh]

how can it be safer riding on the wrong side of the road? simple fact that a car is probably traveling say at the lowest speed limit here 30mph and a bike travelling at say 15/20mph that means a 45/50mph impact, yer getting killed instantly, riding on the proper side of the road means a 10/15mph impact you've half a chance at that imo...and on the wrong side of the road reaction time is seriously reduced making it even more dangerous, vastly out weighing your 4 eyes theory imo...

you're off yer nut mate...

also you don't like cars coming from behind you, are you deaf? i always know when there's a car to my rear without looking..

and btw i'm not a stickler for sticking to the road rules either i know them and disregard loads when i'm on the road, your theory is just mental tho, wouldn't catch me doing it in a million years!

[FaceThem]

Last time I ran into a bozo like you, I was going to give him a nice shot in the jaw, but when I looked at him lying on the ground, unable to catch his breath after my shoulder drove into him at my 35 kmh and his 25 kmh, I knew I couldn't possibly hit him as hard as I already had. I left him to try to gasp in some air. Punishment enough.


The whole idea of riding facing the traffic is to avoid all traffic coming at you..why some idiot held his course and came straight at you seems very odd but maybe he was disabled in some way..Dementia or Alzheimer's, etc...if it was me coming along, i would give you or ANYTHING COMING AT ME a very wide berth...you sound like you're riding Germany's Auto Bon.

i'm curious if you regularly drive a car?

[FaceThem]

This one kid was coming straight at me (I was riding), going the wrong way. I got a good mouthfull from my camelbak and gave him a nice shower. Was he suprised.:D

The whole idea of riding facing the traffic is to avoid all traffic coming at you..why some idiot held his course and came straight at you seems very odd but maybe he was disabled in some way..dementia or Alzheimer's, etc...if it was me coming along i would give you or ANYTHING COMING AT ME a very wide berth...you sound like you're riding the "auto bon"

i'm curious if you regularly drive a car?

[randya]

I disagree. Ride according to the rules of the road, or don't ride at all. If everyone started using the roads however they wanted, there'd be utter chaos.
I dunno, it works in the cities of egypt, india and most parts of southeast asia...

[FaceThem]

I disagree. Ride according to the rules of the road, or don't ride at all. If everyone started using the roads however they wanted, there'd be utter chaos.

Riding according to the rules sounds just fine..do you believe that cars are driving according to the rules?

[dmac49]

Help me I've fallen and I can't get up ! I'm still laughing so hard ... quick send me some knock out drops.

[FaceThem]

I dunno, it works in the cities of egypt, india and most parts of southeast asia...

Riding with the traffic and following the rules sounds just fine..until you go to some different place in the world and then you soon realize that some cars don't always drive according to their rules.

Your little skeleton on that 30 pound bike should not completely trust the thousands of tons of metal whirling past you, with only inches to spare.

It's fine to flow with the traffic (as the Mayor of any city would pray you would )
BUT NOT ALL THE TIME!!!!!

[FaceThem]

how can it be safer riding on the wrong side of the road? simple fact that a car is probably traveling say at the lowest speed limit here 30mph and a bike travelling at say 15/20mph that means a 45/50mph impact, yer getting killed instantly, riding on the proper side of the road means a 10/15mph impact you've half a chance at that imo...and on the wrong side of the road reaction time is seriously reduced making it even more dangerous, vastly out weighing your 4 eyes theory imo...

you're off yer nut mate...

also you don't like cars coming from behind you, are you deaf? i always know when there's a car to my rear without looking..

and btw i'm not a stickler for sticking to the road rules either i know them and disregard loads when i'm on the road, your theory is just mental tho, wouldn't catch me doing it in a million years!


I'm glad you have admitted you don't always follow the rules of the road because let's face it..you're a tiny little bike..almost like a jogger..having incredible peripheral vision..you'd be a dork to come to a stop at an empty intersection.

[FaceThem]

It's strange how one human being loves lashing out at another..it's actually sad.

[FaceThem]

Moron! If I encounter you coming head on, you're going down.

You are endangering every other legally riding bicyclist on the road.



WOW..how many wrong way bikers do you people actually encounter in a day???...get a loud horn to blast them..in a large city there's always going to be a given percentage of *******s.

But let me ask..what is your defense for ******* DRIVERS?..trust me..4 eyes are better than 2.

[Allister]

Too late. The number of people who don't ride according the the rules of the road, especially outside the metro areas, has been pretty much a constant for as long as I can remember...going back to the late 60s.

True. I don't seriously expect anyone to follow any advice I offer on these forums anyway.

[chipcom]

Riding according to the rules sounds just fine..do you believe that cars are driving according to the rules?

When it comes to driving on the right-hand side of the road (in the US, among other countries), yes they do, with some exceptions, most of which are legal.

[chipcom]

True. I don't seriously expect anyone to follow any advice I offer on these forums anyway.

Remind me to buy you a pint someday, mate. :D

[Allister]

I dunno, it works in the cities of egypt, india and most parts of southeast asia...

Really? A quick scan of the internets indicates a significantly higher rate of road deaths and injuries in those places than we enjoy in the US or Aus.

[FaceThem]

Sorry I'm late with my comments but I just ran across this thread.
What a total and complete idiot!!!
Ever taken the BikeEd (http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/) course promoted by the League of American Bicyclists??

Don't you wish all car drivers took that course too?

How would you defend yourself or even see..if in a stream of many cars, each following the other stupidly close, one drifts a bit right..if that were me i would not have been on the road when the stream went past but on the shoulder or grass or stopped..then i'd be back up on the road..me eyes looking ahead..and 'rock-lobster' playing in my ear...but 99% of all bikers i see when i'm driving my car do absolutely nothing to help traffic and you always see brake lights come on as the traffic approaches the "little legitimate vehicle".

[ghettocruiser]

..but 99% of all bikers i see when i'm driving my car do absolutely nothing to help traffic and you always see brake lights come on as the traffic approaches the "little legitimate vehicle".

So they see us and brake to be cautious and alert the car behind them. Sounds good.



Real odd how the focus has shifted from safety to "helping traffic".

[dynodonn]

When it comes to a wrong way cyclist, I treat them no differently as a ped/jogger, just as long as I have enough reaction time to pass them, and they don't pull a sneak attack on me from behind a parked car.

[FaceThem]

So they see us and brake to be cautious and alert the car behind them. Sounds good.



Real odd how the focus has shifted from safety to "helping traffic".



'They' those attentive expert operators of vehicles are forced to brake because they can't safely pass you if another car is hurtling towards them or if 'they' can't see around corners and hills..but 'some' make errors in judgment.

[FaceThem]

When it comes to a wrong way cyclist, I treat them no differently as a ped/jogger, just as long as I have enough reaction time to pass them, and they don't pull a sneak attack on me from behind a parked car.

Everyone has the wrong-way-cyclist figured out..no one has much defense against a driver gone wrong. You can hear him coming up..and see him in your mirror but realistically most of the time you must focus on the immediate road ahead.

I will not accept the fact that you cyclists never ever feel there are certain circumstances where you may be better off looking at what's coming at you...does it never get dark or rain or fog or snow..you wouldn't ride home on a dark rainy night with your kids following would you?