Highest elevation climb with a hub motor Ebike?

[EbikeHawaii]

In 1 hour how far up hill can a hub motor Ebike go up (in elevation) with a 12 ah 48 volt battery pack and minimal pedaling? (less than 100 WH of pedal power) Remember only about 80% of the pack Ah rating of most types of batteries will be ok before damaging the batteries.

[The7]

12Ah X 48V = 578 Wh
It will supply 578W for an motor for 1 hour.
If the motor has an eff of 80%, then the output power is 460W.
If the man assists 100W as suggested the total useful power = 460+100 = 560W.

If the gear ratio is OK, then any motor having 80% eff will climp the same height for the same load: weight of ebike, weight of rider, road condition.

[EbikeHawaii]

12Ah X 48V = 578 Wh
It will supply 578W for an motor for 1 hour.
If the motor has an eff of 80%, then the output power is 460W.
If the man assists 100W as suggested the total useful power = 460+100 = 560W.

If the gear ratio is OK, then any motor having 80% eff will climp the same height for the same load: weight of ebike, weight of rider, road condition. First of all any lead acid battery that is rated at 12 ah you may get 100% of its capacity for 1 time before the battery is permanentaly dammaged.These batteries are rated at a 25 hour discharge to get the full ah.That is less than 1/2 amp per hour discharge rate.Discharging at a 2 C rate= 24 ah you will find that the batteries will take this for a few months only if you do NOT discharge them more than half of the batteries rated ah= 6 ah.=288 watt hours.For those who have used lithiums will find this true as well when discharging beyond 60 to 80 % of the battery packs true .2C to .5C ratings.Short peak discharges wont hurt too much but if you are trying to go up a decent grade hill ( of 10 to 20% grade)with out using a 24 ah discharge= 1152 watthours you will not get above 10 mph. How does one gear down a hubmotor in a 26" wheel bike to run at its best efficiency to go 10 mph up a hill using less than 1000 wh ? I know that I did not mention a speed but it is common knowlege that most hills of 10% grade or more it will take at least 750 watts to maintain a slow speed even if your motor is close to 95% efficient with a light bike.Going back to the orriginal question: Highest elevation climb with a hub motor Ebike? Not theroitical but who has a actual answer? Has no one with a stock off the shelf hub motor climbed even a 10% grade for 1 hour?

Remember only about 80% of the pack Ah rating of most types of batteries will be ok before damaging the batteries.

[The7]

First of all any lead acid battery that is rated at 12 ah you may get 100% of its capacity for 1 time before the battery is permanentaly dammaged.These batteries are rated at a 25 hour discharge to get the full ah.That is less than 1/2 amp per hour discharge rate.Discharging at a 2 C rate= 24 ah you will find that the batteries will take this for a few mounths only if you do NOT discharge them no more than half of the batteries rated ah= 6 ah.=288 watt hours.For those who have used lithiums will find this true as well when discharging beyond 60 to 80 % of the battery packs true .2C to .5C ratings.Short peak discharges wont hurt too much but if you are trying to go up a decent grade hill ( of 10 to 20% grade)with out using a 24 ah discharge= 1152 watthours you will not get above 10 mph. How does one gear down a hubmotor in a 26" wheel bike to run at its best efficiency to go 10 mph up a hill using less than 1000 wh ? I know that I did not mention a speed but it is common knowlege that most hills of 10% grade or more it will take at least 750 watts to maintain a slow speed even if your motor is close to 95% efficient with a light bike.Going back to the orriginal question: Highest elevation climb with a hub motor Ebike? Not theroitical but who has a actual answer? Has no one with a stock off the shelf hub motor climbed even a 10% grade for 1 hour?

Remember only about 80% of the pack Ah rating of most types of batteries will be ok before damaging the batteries.

Is it fair to say climbing 10% grade for 1 hour without stating the distance travelled?
One could gear down to ride for several hours if he likes. But how far did he travel?

Is there any one gear ratio that will be good for all condition: flat road, gentle slope and steep slope?

[EbikeHawaii]

Is it fair to say climbing 10% grade for 1 hour without stating the distance travelled?
One could gear down to ride for several hours if he likes. But how far did he travel?

Is there any one gear ratio that will be good for all condition: flat road, gentle slope and steep slope? So how would you gear down a hub motor to match your desire ? I don't care how much grade or distance.The question I asked was how far up n elevation a hub motor ebike can go in 1 hour ? Has no one yet found out by doing a test ? between 5 and 10 mph or any speed or distance ... or grade. LOL.

[EbikeHawaii]

[QUOTE

Is there any one gear ratio that will be good for all condition: flat road, gentle slope and steep slope?[/QUOTE] Yes. if you don't use a hub motor and use a chain reduction with a ratio for your gross weight and have enough torque available to do the job at the speed you desire...

[geebee]

[QUOTE

Is there any one gear ratio that will be good for all condition: flat road, gentle slope and steep slope? Yes. if you don't use a hub motor and use a chain reduction with a ratio for your gross weight and have enough torque available to do the job at the speed you desire...[/QUOTE]

To paraphrase for a hub.
Yes. if you use a hub motor and use a wheel diameter suitable for your gross weight and have enough torque available to do the job at the speed you desire...
Or you can also get a geared hub which will give you a self contained high efficiency package that will climb well.

I have a 160w rated geared hub that with minimal pedaling will sit on just over 20 kph on a 10% hill continuosly without even getting warm unfortunately it only takes half of your specified voltage.
I can't define my pedal input as I don't have a power meter in the rear wheel but I am not putting much effort into it.

Have you ever done so? because your famous volcano is only a 5% average incline.

[EbikeHawaii]

In 1 hour how far up hill can a hub motor Ebike go up (in elevation) with a 12 ah 48 volt battery pack and minimal pedaling? this is the question with no answers yet.

[BroadwayJoe]

Idiotic question posed by someone only looking to argue for selfish purposes. For anybody that doesn't already know - Randy is a complete freak who has nothing better to do than muddy good informational forums with post after post about his greatness. His royal heighness King Randy is NOT somebody you wanna deal with in any way, shape or form. Bottom line with this kook - play at your own risk - you've been warned...

[EbikeHawaii]

Idiotic question posed by someone only looking to argue for selfish purposes. For anybody that doesn't already know - Randy is a complete freak who has nothing better to do than muddy good informational forums with post after post about his greatness. His royal heighness King Randy is NOT somebody you wanna deal with in any way, shape or form. Bottom line with this kook - play at your own risk - you've been warned... LOL ..Questions that YOU can not answer are Idiotic and selfish ?

[Jaleel Johanson]

Here's a better question...

How many people are out in the nice weather enjoying their hub motor bikes legally while Randy can't legally ride his junk on Maui Hawaii roads? LOL

[Lowell_]

Here's a better question...

How many people are out in the nice weather enjoying their hub motor bikes legally while Randy can't legally ride his junk on Maui Hawaii roads? LOL

Yeah it was pretty nice out yesterday, rode to work and then to visit my folks, about 60km or so. I wonder how much Randy actually rides his clunker these days?

[EbikeHawaii]

Here's a better question...

How many people are out in the nice weather enjoying their hub motor bikes legally while Randy can't legally ride his junk on Maui Hawaii roads? LOL With 90 degree weather most every day of the year and mountain trails just across the street I could care less about riding on the car filled roads. LOL most days I use my truck to go surfing. If I do ride on the road the cops don't care or even know that ebikes are ilegal.A shop has been renting ebikes in town for the last two years illegaly.

[springnr]

I keep hoping EbikeHawaii would figure out how to produce his ideas or decide to share details...

I just now gave up, and figured out how to add him to the ignore list in the control panel.

[EbikeHawaii]

I keep hoping EbikeHawaii would figure out how to produce his ideas or decide to share details...

I just now gave up, and figured out how to add him to the ignore list in the control panel.
My ideas will be produced when and if ebikes become legal here and a ebike market ever developes beyond flat land style heavy inefficient hub motors and lead acid batteries.
Where there is no vision Ebikes will perrish.

[Zeuser]

Here's a better question...

How many people are out in the nice weather enjoying their hub motor bikes legally while Randy can't legally ride his junk on Maui Hawaii roads? LOL

Every single day.

And I don't have to prove anything by climbing a stupid mountain either.

[Zeuser]

My ideas will be produced when and if ebikes become legal here ...

Sounds ti me like they made them illegal because just like us, they're tired of your constant bolstering. Buy a clue... they want you to leave the state. ;)

[EbikeHawaii]

Sounds ti me like they made them illegal because just like us, they're tired of your constant bolstering. Buy a clue... they want you to leave the state. ;) Make like a hub motor.... Rattle and fry..

[Lowell_]

Make like a hub motor.... Rattle and fry..

You must be talking about Ken Trough's 5lb (or is it 7lb) smoking disc motor that you designed.

[EbikeHawaii]

You must be talking about Ken Trough's 5lb (or is it 7lb) smoking disc motor that you designed. You are once again mistaken but also forgiven.

http://www.heartspringmedia.com/products/randy_draper/heartspring.html

[Zeuser]

Make like a hub motor.... Rattle and fry..

Go climb a Volcano and throw your bike in it while your at it.

[Lowell_]

Idiotic question posed by someone only looking to argue for selfish purposes. For anybody that doesn't already know - Randy is a complete freak who has nothing better to do than muddy good informational forums with post after post about his greatness. His royal heighness King Randy is NOT somebody you wanna deal with in any way, shape or form. Bottom line with this kook - play at your own risk - you've been warned...

Randy must enjoy public abuse and ridicule.

[EbikeHawaii]

Randy must enjoy public abuse and ridicule.

I do enjoy watching you and your ebike girlscout troop make fools of yourselves over toy hub motors.

[Zeuser]

I do enjoy watching you and your ebike girlscout troop make fools of yourselves over toy hub motors.

Will you ever shut the **** up?

[Lowell_]

I do enjoy watching you and your ebike girlscout troop make fools of yourselves over toy hub motors.

The joke is on you, Randy. In case you haven't figured it out, you're the laughing stock of every EV forum you preach on. (that you haven't been banned on yet) Somehow you even manage to alienate those that support your ideas...

http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/homophobes.htm

"These findings support the theories that homophobia (fear and hatred of gayness and support for antigay discrimination) is often indicative of repressed, self-loathing homosexual feelings; and that many homophobes subconsciously use anti-gay attitudes as a smokescreen to disguise their own homosexuality."

Could Randy actually be a closet hub motor fan? Using his public hatred for hub motors as a cover up, ashamed to admit to the world that he only rides his hub motor ebike at night time when nobody is around? It's ok to come out of the closet Randy, don't be scared.

[Brian]

Mr. Ebike, I would suggest that you change your tone if you would like to continue participating on this forum.

Brian,

Forum administrator

[EbikeHawaii]

Mr. Ebike, I would suggest that you change your tone if you would like to continue participating on this forum.

Brian,

Forum administratorStick to the topic. LOL

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Stick to the topic. LOL

Not real smart..........

[EbikeHawaii]

The joke is on you, Randy. In case you haven't figured it out, you're the laughing stock of every EV forum you preach on. (that you haven't been banned on yet) Somehow you even manage to alienate those that support your ideas...

http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/homophobes.htm

"These findings support the theories that homophobia (fear and hatred of gayness and support for antigay discrimination) is often indicative of repressed, self-loathing homosexual feelings; and that many homophobes subconsciously use anti-gay attitudes as a smokescreen to disguise their own homosexuality."

Could Randy actually be a closet hub motor fan? Using his public hatred for hub motors as a cover up, ashamed to admit to the world that he only rides his hub motor ebike at night time when nobody is around? It's ok to come out of the closet Randy, don't be scared.
Geeeez don't burn another controller cooking your pancakes..

[Zeuser]

Not real smart..........

Defintely not smart at all.

Lets start a countdown to eBikeHawaii's ban. I say 2 days at this pace.

[EbikeHawaii]

Defintely not smart at all.

Lets start a countdown to eBikeHawaii's ban. I say 2 days at this pace. That will be up to fairness and free speach about the truth dispite others lies and attacks.
Now back to the SUBJECT of a hub motor ebike climbing un known highest elevation in one hour on a 12 ah 48 volt rated battery pack.Fact not fiction please.

[StephenH]

In response to the original question...on a reasonably steep uphill, you can figure that most of your power is going into simply raising a weight, with minimal wind drag at the slow speeds involved.

Figure weight of bike and rider times vertical elevation change = ft-lbs of energy required.

And, 1 foot pound = 1.36 wattsecond, so you can then figure how many wattseconds that is. And from there convert to amp-hours and compare to battery capacity.

I assume motor efficiency might drop considerably at very low speeds, so you might need a fudge factor of 1.5 or 2 in there, but that should get you in the ballpark.

[Brian]

That will be up to fairness and free speach about the truth dispite others lies and attacks.

Metallica | Garage Inc. | Track 1.

[Lowell_]

That will be up to fairness and free speach about the truth dispite others lies and attacks.
Now back to the SUBJECT of a hub motor ebike climbing un known highest elevation in one hour on a 12 ah 48 volt rated battery pack.Fact not fiction please.

With only a few hundred watts at the wheel, bike and rider weight will make a big difference. Are we talking about skinny assed riders? What battery chemistry? 1C drain on SLA batteries will seriously reduce useable capacity.

[BroadwayJoe]

Can somebody (admin) please ban this kook and remove all posts? He obviously just loves the attention and if he can't get ANY here - he will move on to someplace where he might be more appreciated? County hospital perhaps?

I'm not one for censorship but in the case of severe mental defect - it may be best to ignore and move on... JMHO

[Brian]

Can somebody (admin) please ban this kook and remove all posts? He obviously just loves the attention and if he can't get ANY here - he will move on to someplace where he might be more appreciated? County hospital perhaps?

I'm not one for censorship but in the case of severe mental defect - it may be best to ignore and move on... JMHO

He hasn't really done anything to be banned for yet. Perhaps everyone could just ignore him. I will admit that this thread is possibly the stupidest I've seen in a long time.

[EbikeHawaii]

With only a few hundred watts at the wheel, bike and rider weight will make a big difference. Are we talking about skinny assed riders? What battery chemistry? 1C drain on SLA batteries will seriously reduce useable capacity.Even most lithium batteries such as Kokams have a .2C to .5 c discharge rating.The discharge should only be 80% of the rated capacity before battery damage acures.12Ah SLA batteries are rated at a 25 hour discharge for a 12ah capacity but discharged at a 1c or 12 amps it is fair to say if you have taken them down to 60% of the rating figure 12Ah= using 7.2Ah they may last longer than a few months.Taking a SLA down to 80% in 1 hour will ruin a sla rather fast. I think it is fair to say for testing purposes a rider of 170 lbs should be max for any ebike test rider.Just because if it gets much heavier most ebike systems will have to struggle at that rider weight if not helped out by pedaling.IMO a ebike should carry a 170 lb rider with 50 lbs of lead acid batteries up most hills (avrage 5 to 8% grade) for at least 8 miles without pedaling and still make it up a 20% grade with some pedal assist.. When I first started testing ebike motors I filled up my old Huffy with four 40 lb Hawker AGM sla batteries with no pedals to test hills with the WORST conditions to see how efficient and reliable each motor was. With the lightening of the load you just go up steeper hills faster! with less heat.

[Lowell_]

5-8% grade for 8 miles? How did you come up with those numbers? Pulled them out of thin air just like your efficiency figures? Exactly what percentage of ebikers have to climb 8 mile long hills?

I have never seen a lithium pack with such a pathetic discharge rating as .2C, or even .5C for that matter. Post some more info on these cells.

The average adult male in the United States weighs 190lbs. 230lbs would be a more realistic max rider weight.

[Brian]

When I first started testing ebike motors I filled up my old Huffy with four 40 lb Hawker AGM sla batteries with no pedals to test hills with the WORST conditions to see how efficient and reliable each motor was. With the lightening of the load you just go up steeper hills faster! with less heat.

That's why those of us that aren't pussies just pedal.

[EbikeHawaii]

5-8% grade for 8 miles? How did you come up with those numbers? Pulled them out of thin air just like your efficiency figures? Exactly what percentage of ebikers have to climb 8 mile long hills?

I have never seen a lithium pack with such a pathetic discharge rating as .2C, or even .5C for that matter. Post some more info on these cells.

The average adult male in the United States weighs 190lbs. 230lbs would be a more realistic max rider weight.You look it up and prove my specs wrong.Try some honest tests of your own to figure it out.