Rust inhibitor?

[knotty]

When I order a new steel frame, is the internal tubing rust protected? if not, should I get the bike shop to do this?

Thanks..knotty

[jgedwa]

its not so hard to do yourself. Especially to a bare frame. Even coating the inside liberally with wd-40 will do much in this way. All the things about wd-40 that people complain about as a lubricant (the solvents evaporate leaving a thin sticky coating) make it somewhat useful in this regard. Problem solved with $2.50 and 15 minutes.

Of course, you could always buy a can of framesaver. Presumably it would be more effective.

I guess to answer your question: I have never heard of a frame coming from the factory pre-Framesavered. Maybe you could tell if it was buy feeling around inside the BB with your finger. I think it would feel a bit tacky.

jim

[Nessism]

Most production frames are not coated on the inside. Checking on the inside at the bottom bracket as jim suggests is a good test. Framesaver is a well respected product for this purpose. I have used a product sold by Nissan car dealers called Rust Preventitive - similar to framesaver. WD-40 is not a good choice since it doesn't have much oil in it and will not have enough staying power.

[knotty]

Good points thanks! I've been visiting a lot of bike shops looking for my new bike and have heard all kinds of answers, some said, "it comes from the factory internally rust protected" others recommended Weigles (sp?) and Boeshield T9.

In anycase, it will be done on my new bike. The reason I asked about the bike shop doing it is because they will have the bare frame only before they start building it.

knotty

[Ziemas]

Go for the Weigles Frame Saver. It works very well and it tacky enough to stick in the tubes for a long time. Do a search on it for more info.

[knotty]

Thanks Ziemas, Yes, I've decided on the Weigles.

knotty

[Wotan]

Has anybody used one of the spray-on fish oil products from the hardware stores inside? I've never heard any cyclists recommending it so assume it's not a good thing but I have no real knowledge on the subject. It certainly gets used in the automotive world.

[Thylacine]

You can use the Wiggles framesaver or you can just go to your local automotive shop and get the same stuff for half the price. Forgotten what it's called, but just go in and ask for a wax based inhibitor that won't wash out and you'll be apples.

[PDXJeff]

I've been using Boeshield T-9.
http://www.boeshield.com/

[danielmramos]

Hey, has anybody ever tried zinc sacraficial anodes or a zinc coating of some type?

[Falanx]

Hey, has anybody ever tried zinc sacraficial anodes or a zinc coating of some type?

Problem with sacrificial anodes is positioning. Where are you gonna put em? How are you going to maintain electrical contact with enough of the frame... There's sufficient resistance in steel that for example, connecting them somewhere inside the top end of the top tube would not protect the extremes of the chainstays and seatstays.... You'll note that when cast magnesium alloy blocks are attached to the hulls of ships, they are mounted at regular distances to ensure that the the galvanic effect is sufficient all over the hull.

Second. Galvanising frames isn't really easy to do on the inside. Liquid zinc isn't very runny, and one of the downsides is that while it bonds to and reacts with the surface of the steel, it bonds to and reacts with the surface of the steel. The very protection mechanism that is afforded to lamp posts produces deleterious and brittle intemetallic layers that are very thick in comparison to the substrate tube. It's not good for highly stressed, thin section load bearing structures.


You can use the Wiggles framesaver or you can just go to your local automotive shop and get the same stuff for half the price. Forgotten what it's called, but just go in and ask for a wax based inhibitor that won't wash out and you'll be apples.


In the UK it's sold as Wax-Oyl. I don't know about everywhere else. You can get it from Halfords and other equivalent automotive stores.


Something that a lot of people wouldn't expect to work, but does, is molasses. I'm not joking.

If you can get to a company with a 50% Nitric acid passivating bath, that would do too.


Just ideas....

[FloridaBoy]

I've been using Boeshield T-9.
http://www.boeshield.com/

Me too, I am in SW Florida and wood rusts here. :D

[keithm0]

Hi, all. I'm new here, new to frame building, etc.

Would the Corrosion X (http://www.corrosionx.com/) products be appropriate for protecting the inner surfaces of a steel frame? I use their aviation product to protect the inside of my Cessna 182 airframe. I've also used it on some steel objects that are subject to weather -- gate hinges, padlocks, etc, and it seems to work extremely well.

[StabsAll]

Most production frames are not coated on the inside.

I worked for a frame builder back in the late 90's and we used framesaver in the seatube of every frame that went out the door. We sealed all vent holes and had full shell bb shells without anyplace for water to get in as well. Hence, only treating the seat tube.

[maddog17]

i use the frame saver as well on both of my steel rides. one thing to note is that some of the newer framesets come with sealed tubes which i don't think means that the tubes have been treated, they've just been sealed at both ends. older framesets, like my Concorde SLX, doesn't have sealed tubes, therefore i can spray framesaver in all the tubes even the rear stays. so i think the thing to ask is are the tubes sealed or open. if open, spray away. my Wojcik has sealed tubes but were sprayed before assembly.

[Giro]

Volatile or vapor phase corrosion inhibitors may be better or a supplement to the market-specific FrameSaver (which I also have), Bosheild T-9 for Bicycles, etc. liquid products. The main advantage is they are volatile and will get everywhere inside a closed space such as a frame, better than a liquid. The resulting corrosion resistant layer is not thick and thus not resistant to wear, but except for the moving the seat post I can not think of anywhere else this is an issue inside a frame. I suppose they are also trivially lighter.

These are used in marine environments, for shipping products, etc. Some links:
Safepack (http://www.safepack.com/products/vci%20products/vcirange.html)
Daubert -Cromwell (http://www.cromwell-phoenix.com/default.asp)
ZRust products (http://www.amosadvantage.com/scottonline/productgroup.asp?category=CISSUP&part_no=&Tab=s)
Corrosion Technologies (http://www.corrosionx.com/) (variety of products)
Bullfrog (http://www.bull-frog.com/) Vapor phase Corrosion Inhibitors

[rmfnla]

I worked for a frame builder back in the late 90's and we used framesaver in the seatube of every frame that went out the door. We sealed all vent holes and had full shell bb shells without anyplace for water to get in as well. Hence, only treating the seat tube.

Not a good practice.

Water is present in the air at all times (unless you were building in Death Valley) so what you were doing is trapping it in the tubes that you sealed up.

The best way is to treat the tubes first, then seal the holes.

BB shells aren't as critical since it's easy to wipe grease around while lubing the threads before assembly.

[Falanx]

I worked for a frame builder back in the late 90's and we used framesaver in the seatube of every frame that went out the door. We sealed all vent holes and had full shell bb shells without anyplace for water to get in as well. Hence, only treating the seat tube.



Not a good practice.

Water is present in the air at all times (unless you were building in Death Valley) so what you were doing is trapping it in the tubes that you sealed up.

The best way is to treat the tubes first, then seal the holes.

BB shells aren't as critical since it's easy to wipe grease around while lubing the threads before assembly.


Seconding. Corrosion is insidious. There is no mastic sealant on earth that is water vapour proof. End of. All polymers are porous to gases and water vapour is no different. As a result, even bulk water can diffuse through them if the conditions are right, and then what you've done is allow vapour to accurue in a space in which it can condense. Think of it as a goretex coat in reverse. The osmotic pressure is firmly on the side of driving water through the mastic and into the 'sealed' tude.

[Nessism]

Sealing tubes done by some builders such as Independant Fabrication, IF. Sure there is water vapor in the air, and some could get in through pores in the metal, but the amount is not enough to matter in the real world so it's all good. Frankly, sealing tubes seems like more work than it's worth which is why I don't bother. I don't see anything wrong with it though for those that choose to do so.

[Soonerinfrisco]

OK,

So what can you do to protect a fully built steel bike?

thanks

[guygadois]

I use T-9 or you can use linseed Oil. The former is a replacement for Frame Saver. I was told by my LBS they are the same except linseed Oil is bought at Costco for next to nothing.