General Cycling Discussion - The Brotherhood of Cycling

I was always taught that if you see a fellow (or sister) cyclist stopped by the side of the road or path, to stop and offer assistance, even if all you can offer is sympathy!

On my ride today, I encountered a man on the side of the road who was having a huge problem with a flat. He was carrying two tubes, and each time he put one in and inflated the tire, it went flat again. I offered to check the tire casing for bits of glass or metal. He thanked me, but said that he was about to do that. I offered him an patch, and he thanked me, and I went on my way.

About 15 minutes later, my front tire picked up a bit of glass. As I was reparing it, at least five cyclists rode by and remained completely mute. In fact, two actually looked the other way! Only one man slowed and asked if I needed help. I replied I had all I needed, and thanked him for the offer.

What is wrong with people? On this same bike path, which I have ridden at least five times in the past three weeks, cyclists are unfriendly, in fact, some are downright rude. I was also taught to wave, nod, greet with a "Good Morning" other cyclists. At least half on this path ignore me.

The most egregious are the people on road bikes with full team colors. Not all of them, but most. The fellow who offered to help me with my flat was wearing full USPS Team uniform. But, the rest are almost uniformly (pun intended!) rude.

Perhaps it is not cool to wave to an old fat guy riding a comfort bike.

I think sometimes we expect too much from other cyclists. Just because someone is cycling does not somehow turn them into an altogether different person. What you'll find is that cyclists are people too and across the range of cyclists will exhibit the same spectrum of attitudes the rest of the population does. Cycling is but a part of what defines a person who bikes. I'm not excusing people for not being friendly. I think the whole of the world should be a littler friendlier and nicer to their fellow persons. I'm just saying that one shouldn't overestimate a person on a bicycle in that regard.

I agree to a certain extent. But when I ride around my neighborhood, everyone, joggers, walkers, cyclists, all wave or nod to each other.

At two other bike paths, people are uniformly friendly.

Also, people on hybrids are more apt to return my waves and greetings than the uniformed roadies.

Weird and inexplicable!

I've found ample evidence that jerkism is not confined to one specific mode of transport. I assume that many if not most of the cyclists I see on any given day also drive automobiles, but there is no reason to expect that their cycling habits are any better or worse (well...maybe worse, given some of the stupid acts I've witnessed) than their motoring habits.

I continue to lift a hand and nod in greeting when I meet another cyclist, even though by now I have learned to expect nothing in return. I'll stop to help someone in need even if my mechanical skills are as yet wanting (I'm working on it!) because perhaps the least I can do is to steady the bike as they go about repairs, or offer the use of my cell phone.

To do otherwise is to become what I despise, and I won't do that.

-Rob

people around the trails usually greet or nod/smile at me... i'm not that kind of person to greet especially when the speed between me and the passing cyclist is something like > 30mph, but i still nod/smile and acknowlege them... i found that since i started riding the bike on the road that i have became a little more courteous car driver... but one thing i hate are those bicycle riders around here that are all over the road... they do not follow road rules, they swerve in and out of lanes to cross the street, go the wrong way (both on the road and sidewalks)... i've been riding in my town for 2 weeks and not once have i seen a "proper" cyclist... i've been living in this town for 3 years, and i have seen cyclists that follow road rules, but it's only now that i notice how many don't... so if you're reading this and you're one of those people, watch out...

Originally posted by TrekRider
I was always taught that if you see a fellow (or sister) cyclist stopped by the side of the road or path, to stop and offer assistance, even if all you can offer is sympathy!...

I agree. I wave to all cyclists, even the jerks that regularly don't return my wave or nod. I also offer help to stranded cyclists and have received as much help or more from my fellow cyclists in my early days. But I also make a point to wave to car drivers and pedestrians. Now, I'm not riding down the road waving like a special olymics participant, but my fellow riders notice and after a while they find themselves waving more than they used to as well.

I go out of my way to make sure I don't give off the "*&( hole" cyclist" vibe as a select few of my fellow cyclist are known to do.

I try to make new friends on every ride for myself and cycling. It costs me nothing, and I have everything to gain. Courtesy is contagious, even in 2003. :)

agreed that there are cyclists of all attutides on the road. I have met both, but i remember the good ones a forget the jerks. Its common curtisy to ask if a person needs help, i would gladly give a tube, or patches if someone needed them. Its no fun to be stranded.

I agree. Its kind of the same with motorcyclists waving at each other. One brand will rarely wave at the others, just my experience. When I rode motorcycles I waved at all. Now I have been a roadie for a long time, and you should get a flat near me because I always wave or say hello to others riding, and if someone is by the side of the road, well, I definitely ask if they need help. Why would anyone not?:crash:

have you guys ever heard about kitty genovese and the profound sociological phenomenon called "diffusion of responsibility" that she illustrates?

diffusion of responsibility is this:
when a person is in distress, an individual is more likely to offer help if he perceives him/herself to be the only person in the area who is able to offer help. now, as you increase the number of able-bodied people in that area, any one individual's feeling of "obligation" to help decreases - the more people there are, the more you think "someone else will eventually come to their aid".

if you're cycling on a lonely road and you see the only cyclist you've seen for miles stranded on the side of the road, you're much more likely to help than you would if it was a high traffic bike path with ten cyclists passing through every minute. this is not because you're a nicer person in one situation than in the other - it's because you feel more RESPONSIBLE or obligated to help if it looks like you're the only one that can help.

In recent years I've actually noticed a decline in the level of politeness among cyclists I see around the place. It used to be common-place that if I gave a wave I'd get one back. Not anymore. Now I don't even bother to wave unless I receive one first. It's the same thing with flats. In 1999, after I had my first flat in 12,000km, I had three passing cyclists offer assistance while I was fixing it on the roadside. Earlier this year I had seven flats in the space of a month, and not one offer of help during the course of all of them.

I guess it's just a reflection of what's happening in society at large.

Originally posted by Chris L
It used to be common-place that if I gave a wave I'd get one back. Not anymore. Now I don't even bother to wave unless I receive one first.

This could be the result of a cascade effect based on what you have already described by your current practice. Which came first? Chicken or egg?

Originally posted by khuon
This could be the result of a cascade effect based on what you have already described by your current practice. Which came first? Chicken or egg?

The point being that there was a time when I initiated the wave. A few too many muted or at times unfriendly responses has put paid to that habit.

Originally posted by Chris L
The point being that there was a time when I initiated the wave. A few too many muted or at times unfriendly responses has put paid to that habit.

I understood your point. I'm just also pointing out that the reason people may have stopped waving in general is because... people have stopped waving in general. If enough critical mass of people who refuse to initiate a wave but would rather only wave back in response accumulates in society, pretty soon no one will be waving. A body at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an external force.

I always wave and stop for cyclist in possible need of help. I don't expect much in return. When they don't wave back, I consider that they may just be on a tough training ride or they may not feel comfortable taking one hand off their bars. As far as needing help, I really wouldn't expect anyone to stop unless I wrecked. I try to be as self-sufficient as possible.

Sorry that those guys rode by you. Keep in mind that the cycling community is very diverse, with different people and different clicks.

I feel ya, TrekRider...I have found that it is usually some of the road cyclists that are the most rude, unfortunately. There was a great article in VeloNews a couple of months back about these "Fabio's" - the guys you see rockin' the ultra-expensive euro bikes and what-not...the guys who won't give you the time of day. I am finding out more and more that there are lot of Fabio's around these parts. Even on some of the group rides I join...the CAT 1 and 2 guys won't say ***** to you - even if you finish the ride in the lead group. That kind of attitude seems to motivate me more and more...one day I'm gonna drop one of those "Fabio's" on a hill on our group ride...I might even say "Hi" as I blow by him, too.

I can’t add much, just an opinion and observation.

Observation: People in general are becoming more self-obsessed. They tend to think of themselves as islands and not part of a community. Thus they are going to be less likely to worry about the well being of others.

Opinion: It’s only going to get worse.

I notice that too, Michael Marshal.

Originally posted by RobCat
To do otherwise is to become what I despise, and I won't do that.-Rob

I second that emotion. I will continue to wave and offer assistance even if ignored.

I will continue to nod/wave at fellow cyclists and stop to assist someone in need, because that is how I would like to be treated. Even though my good nature is rarely returned.

There are cyclists who at the office work with zillions of people every day. Sometimes such a cyclist would like to be left alone for a while and have some privacy. I would respect it.

There are cyclists who try to concentrate and reach some goals on the trail.

Only 10% of communication goes via words, the rest is via the body language and the "biological field". So if one feels like it is OK to say "Hi", then go ahead and say it. Have a conversation, enjoy it.

If, however, you see that it is not a good idea, then forget about it. It is not difficult to spot.

I've met the cyclists, who had the flat and did not have the pump with them. I mean I always carry my pump with me. I also carry some basic tools.

Am I sort of a mobile mechanical service to fix other people problems? Someone would go cycling without the pump or tools, and I would have to stop and waste my time, get my hands dirty?

In certain, circumstances - maybe, but if I am tired after, say, metric century, or on the way to work, I don't know, maybe, - "Nope! I do not have the pump either!"

Attitudes seem to change a lot by region and location. The bike paths I ride on in Denver seem to be mostly populated with a lot of beginner cyclists who are concentrating far too much on their pedaling, steering and balance to be able to wave... and can't offer to help as they wouldn't know what to do if you said yes! Just because someone has the latest Trek 5200 will full USPS outfit doesn't mean they're a great cyclist - just that they can afford an expensive bike. I stopped to help a guy the other day - brand new 5200, full USPS kit: flat tire, no spares, no patches, no pump. Didn't even know how to change a tube, but he sure looked the part!

The path I cycled a lot in Australia was a bit more out of the way, and quite hilly. The cyclists there were usually more experienced, and generally more courteous and better prepared to offer assistance.

I've found riding on the road routes to be on another level again. Picked up a flat on a popular local circuit earlier this year, and almost everyone riding past offered to help.

Move out of town a bit to a singletrack on the mountain bike, and you'll often find hellos, help and advice being thrown around all over the place! My wife picked up a flat the other day, and a group of cyclists riding in the other direction stopped while we were changing it. We didn't need their help, but they hung around for a while talking about the sections we were coming up to on the trail - what to have fun with, what to watch out for etc.

Do unto others what you would expect in return. With the increasing publicity of the TDF and higher awareness of the achievements of Mr. Armstrong, there are many more people out there giving cycling a go. Wave to them even if they don't wave back; offer to help if they're in trouble. Soon enough they'll start doing the same for others on the paths and roads.

All very good points... What I was trying to get at in previous posts is that if you perceive a breakdown in general courtesy, instead of ascerbating the problem by going passive, you can make an attempt to rekindle it by continuing to be proactive. Sure, it may seem frustrating but perhaps the person you initiate the wave to will think to themselves that maybe they should initiate a wave the next time.

I have found, in my neck of the woods, that the "velosnobs" won't even glance at you if you are not riding a decent roadie... case in point, up until about 6 weeks ago I was riding an early 90's Centurion 6 speed downtube roadbike... nowhere near as technologically advanced as anything new on the road today... I'd roll to a stop light, say hi to the guy next to me on his Lightspeed, or Merlin (really any high dollar bike).. he'd look at me, look at my bike, and jsut stare ahead, waiting for the light to turn green...

Well started 6 weeks ago, now I'm riding my Lemond out, and it is all shiny and new... same category of riders see me at the stop light, say hi, super friendly types... now maybe I jsut happen to hit the worst and best of the cycling world on those seperate occasions... but I always try and say hi, or nod, or wave a bit... if I see a guy on the side of the road, I usually call out to see if he needs anything... if he does I stop, help out, make a friend.. increase my kharma for when i'm on the side of the road...

Jeff

Originally posted by mightypudge
I will continue to nod/wave at fellow cyclists and stop to assist someone in need, because that is how I would like to be treated. Even though my good nature is rarely returned. I will do the same with a smile.:)

I think it's the difference between "cyclists" - those who love cycling, and some roadies and mTB'ers who just have a hard-on for the equipment and gear, and bike riders, who ride bikes but aren't into them.

"Cyclists" are into the whole cycling culture. You find the same in motorcycling. You have the snobs who just are equipment freaks and wouldn't have a clue how to help, the bike riders (Sunday pilots) and the motorcyclists, into the whole love of the bike thing.

If I make eye contact with [almost] anyone I say Hi I think about ½ the people say Hi back. But some times I get a Hi from a pretty girl and I think all my good carma is coming back to me, all those times I stopped and helped someone fix a tire or use my phone.
I think you get back what you put into life. CARMA!


On that same note I had some crazy guy on the trail this morning that wanted to play chicken with me coming around a corner! All he had to do is get back on the correct side of the road!. I use biking to off set my weight lifting. I am the Mack Truck of the road biking world If this guy would have hit me I was going at least 15 to 17mph , I might have gotten some road rash but he would have been toast. The whole thing scared me half to death. Looking back on it, If we would have Hit, we were at least 1ml from the next road. I don’t know if I would have had to carry Him out. Thank god everyone is ok.


Don’t forget some people are Nuts out there to!

Mike I am with you on the 'Carma' idea... but let's hope there's no Carma for bad speeling. (Or a bad sense of humor Karma?)

This is an interesting discussion. Our perception of another's motives in not waving or talking or the such can ONLY be based in our own internal thoughs, fears andf judgements.

Think about this... A guy is borrowing his brothers $4000 road bike, and his brother talked him into suiting up with the special flame jersey. ;) His left heel is hurting and he doesn't know why... along with his right shoulder which took a jolt in a fall a mile back when he forgot how to unclip. I ride up next to him on my meager bike and say Hi... he doesn't return the gesture. I ride off thinking 'damn elitist roadie poser' or something like that... when in reality he was just uncomfortable, distracted and didn't know how to respond.

Now.. it's just as possible that the guy in that scenario was exactly a 'damn elitist roadie poser' but I really can only make that judgement based on my own prejudice unless I actually know him.

So... I ride... I wave, smile, say hi, signal, alert other riders and joggers when I am passing, make a comment on the blustery headwind (or whatever) AS i pass, or am passed and so on.

It just feels better to me that way.

cAPS

if you were repairing it, then it probably didn't seem like you were in trouble, and needed help.
It would have been different if you were walking your bike.

Originally posted by RobCat
I've found ample evidence that jerkism is not confined to one specific mode of transport. I assume that many if not most of the cyclists I see on any given day also drive automobiles, but there is no reason to expect that their cycling habits are any better or worse (well...maybe worse, given some of the stupid acts I've witnessed) than their motoring habits.
How true.



I continue to lift a hand and nod in greeting when I meet another cyclist, even though by now I have learned to expect nothing in return. I'll stop to help someone in need even if my mechanical skills are as yet wanting (I'm working on it!) because perhaps the least I can do is to steady the bike as they go about repairs, or offer the use of my cell phone.

My skills are weak as well. But I do carry a patch kit and a multi-tool as well as tire irons. Maybe one day you will stop to help me and we can figure out what to do with my tools. :)


To do otherwise is to become what I despise, and I won't do that.

-Rob
I also do the nod, wave thing. Though sometimes I don't wave if I my balance or timing is off. I find most people out here respond. I also wave and thank a lot of motorists who yield or just don't run me down. I figure positive encouragement is a good thing.
-Duncan

I like be a simple phrase. "Treat others the way you wish to be treated". Sure you may get disappointed from time to time, but in the end the good out weighs the bad.

When I'm on day shift theres a bloke commuting the other way, wears all the kit, good bike ect (all Litespeed & lycra !) & I waved to him every time with no response for over a year , so one day I stopped acknowledging him , it must have worked on his mind as after 3 days he started to wave to me ;) now we wave to each other on sight , isn't human nature interesting ?

cAPSLOCK
but let's hope there's no Carma for bad spelling.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you understand, Good Carma is NOT taking cheep shots.

Be well Mike

Well Mike... I apologize for the cheap shot then. Maybe I paid my debt by riding the last third of todays route in the rain. ;)

Honestly, it was only meant as a bit of levity... but on the net it's too easy to come off in a way you didn't mean to.

You also be well,
cAPS

It's ok

I've noticed that roadies tend to net wave or offer assitance to.

I was guiding a kayaking trip last week and one of the clients put it realy well. When someone goes out to enjoy the outdoors, there is a very spiritual side to it as well as a very physical side to it. I think most roadies out there for training. They won't stop at look outs or take the time to enjoy their surroundings. They don't care a whole lot for the spiritual side. When I go riding, its to get a ballance of both. I like getting my hear rate up and getting a good work out but also enjoy stopping and looking over the lookouts. Because my riding is a very spirtual thing, I am more likely to help other people or wave to other people.

The other day my friend and I were riding and we saw some hikers who looked confused about the trails and we gave them directions. They thanked us and we continued out ride. A few kilometers later we realised that we had given them the wrong directions. We turned around, back tracked a few kilometers and appologised for the mistake and told them the proper directions. It would have been much easier to keep going and not help them, but seeing their reaction when we went out of our way to help them made it all worth while. That is sort of what I meant with the spirtual vs. physical side of riding. Sure, stopping to talk to them would have brought down my heart rate, but I am still getting a good workout so I might as well stop and help. And stuff like that sure helps the kharma.

Originally posted by SipperPhoto
I have found, in my neck of the woods, that the "velosnobs" won't even glance at you if you are not riding a decent roadie...

now I'm riding my Lemond out, and it is all shiny and new... same category of riders see me at the stop light, say hi, super friendly types...

This is not bad. It means that cycling is becoming the part of the Consumerism. It is the good news.

There are the sociologists, who believe that the Consumerism is the new emerging religion, which will inevitably replace the Christianity, Islam and others before long. That the shopping centers are the new temples, and the ads are the new prayers, the billboards are the new icons. The main postulate of the Consumerism is that the bought product can make the new Man from you.

There is no alternative to the Consumerism. Fighting it is senseless, like it was senseless to fight the Christianity in the first centuries of this millenium. It can be only improved.

I accept that the guy on the $4000 Lemond does not notice less fortunate cyclists. And that the guy without the decent bike is considered by society as the total failure.

If it makes the cycling more popular I am ready to accept these snobby attitudes.

The should be the strict casts, based on the cost of the bicycle and outfit. Like it is with the cars - "You are what you drive". It should be turned into "You are what you cycle. "

If this is the cost of bicycle acceptance by the masses, it is OK with me.

Originally posted by djwid
How true.


My skills are weak as well. But I do carry a patch kit and a multi-tool as well as tire irons. Maybe one day you will stop to help me and we can figure out what to do with my tools. :)

Two more clueless guys on the side of the road for the snobs to roll their eyes over as they pass. :p


I also do the nod, wave thing. Though sometimes I don't wave if I my balance or timing is off. I find most people out here respond. I also wave and thank a lot of motorists who yield or just don't run me down. I figure positive encouragement is a good thing.
-Duncan :p

The more courteous and respectful cyclists seen on the road, the better for everyone. :beer:

Originally posted by Max
If it makes the cycling more popular I am ready to accept these snobby attitudes.

I'm not. To be honest I couldn't care less whether the masses want to take up cycling or not. If I did, I would have quit riding to find a more popular activity years ago. In saying that the snobby attitudes don't bother me overly, but I've no desire to see something I enjoy degraded just to keep somebody else happy.

Originally posted by Nic
When someone goes out to enjoy the outdoors, there is a very spiritual side to it as well as a very physical side to it.

Hear Hear!


The other day my friend and I were riding and we saw some hikers who looked confused about the trails and we gave them directions. They thanked us and we continued out ride. A few kilometers later we realised that we had given them the wrong directions. We turned around, back tracked a few kilometers and appologised for the mistake and told them the proper directions. It would have been much easier to keep going and not help them, but seeing their reaction when we went out of our way to help them made it all worth while. That is sort of what I meant with the spirtual vs. physical side of riding. Sure, stopping to talk to them would have brought down my heart rate, but I am still getting a good workout so I might as well stop and help. And stuff like that sure helps the kharma.

That's dead cool, Nic. :beer:

I just got back from a brief 15 mile stroll through the neighborhoods here. Since I wasn't planning on doing anything serious (needed a quick bike-break), I just grabbed shoes and helmet and popped out the door wearing casual shorts and a polo shirt. On my way, I passed a bunch of cyclists coming back into the subdivision from the tuesday night ride that the LBS holds every week. I waved at one as we passed each other on opposite sides of the road. He smiled and waved back. I passed a few others a little bit later and this time they initiated the wave. They were all in full kit and I looked like a posterboy for Eddie Bauer yet they waved all the same. I mean this in no way represents accurate statistical sampling... just a reminder that it's hard to make generalisations about the cycling community (other than that they ride bikes) so maybe it's best that we don't even try. And yes, for my encounter with friendly cyclists, I can also name an equal number of encounters with the opposite. Some were all decked out in gear and others were not. It really isn't what's on the outside that counts.

Originally posted by djwid

My skills are weak as well. But I do carry a patch kit and a multi-tool as well as tire irons. Maybe one day you will stop to help me and we can figure out what to do with my tools. :)



If one does not know (or more correctly would be to say - does not want to know) how to fix the flat he should not be on the trail or road in the first place.

Tip: type in a search engine "fixing bicycle flat" and hit enter.

Originally posted by Chris L
To be honest I couldn't care less whether the masses want to take up cycling or not.

Me neither. I would just like to have better ecology.

Originally posted by Max
If one does not know (or more correctly would be to say - does not want to know) how to fix the flat he should not be on the trail or road in the first place.

Tip: type in a search engine "fixing bicycle flat" and hit enter.

For some reason I decided to do exactly as you suggested... heres what came up top:

http://www.timepasstown.com/text.php?nodeid=134

This is worth the read. ;)

cAPS

Originally posted by cAPSLOCK
For some reason I decided to do exactly as you suggested... heres what came up top:

http://www.timepasstown.com/text.php?nodeid=134

This is worth the read. ;)

cAPS

Awesome.

I reach this state by the end of the cycling tour.

Originally posted by Max
If one does not know (or more correctly would be to say - does not want to know) how to fix the flat he should not be on the trail or road in the first place.

Tip: type in a search engine "fixing bicycle flat" and hit enter.

WOW! That's just rilly TOO COOL! Hey Duncan, we no longer have to worry about being complete and utter dullards, dOOd! MAX has figgered it out for us! That's what I love about the BF, learnin' all about bikes 'n' stuff from people like MAX, who understands the needs of we basic clueless bike rider types.

It's SO EXCITING! Huh? Huh?