Touring - Adjusting a brooks saddle

Specifically, the b-17. Found this site:

http://www.wallbike.com/accessories/tensionspanner.html

as well as many admonitions from net denizens about not adjusting too far or the saddle would be "ruined". My question is this, ruined how?

I ask because I'm a major clydesdale and my new b17 started saggin after a couple hundred miles. I adjusted it a bit, but would like to know how conservative I need to be. Do these things routinely rip?

Do these things routinely rip?

- no

Where's my can opener?

Leather can rip, especially when it gets old and dried out.

When made into a bicycle saddle, it will eventually sag, at least for me - 185 lbs. This has happened on every saddle I've used. I used to get about 7-8,000 miles out of a Selle Italia Flite saddle before it would begin sagging. This racing-style saddle consists of a plastic frame and foam padding in addition to the tensioning/support rail mechanism of the Brooks. So don't be surprised that your B17 is sagging.

I had to retension my B17 a bit after a radical conditioning / rapid break-in procedure. I ended up turning the nut about 3-4 revolutions to achieve a suitably firm saddle. So my saddle "grew" about 5mm longer than original length.

I pressed down in the center after each turn to gauge the sag/firmness. It took more turns than I'd have guessed to get it tight again. I would be leery of going much further than this. You have to figure the leather will continue to stretch with time and you don't want to use up all your adjustment range now.

If your B17 uses the newer hexagonal nut you can do this adjustment with whatever wrench you have handy that will fit - not a lot of torque is required. I used a locking needle nose plier successfully without damaging the nut. I added blue loctite and let sit for a couple days to dry before using saddle.

One trick that may help you is punching/drilling holes in mid section of saddle skirt and adding a string to "tie" the saddle: http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html <----- about 40% down the page.

"Tying" is relatively easy to do and will add firmness to saddle to counter the natural sag caused by your body weight. I think it will help the sag at least as much retensioning the saddle. A "major clydesdale" rider will probably need to employ both measures.

To mark the holes for "tying" your saddle, find a starting reference point in the saddle length-wise, about 1cm up from edge of skirt, approximately in the center of the "dip" in the skirt, then carefully transfer this reference point to opposing side. Then mark off 3-5 more points at 1 cm intervals, following contour of skirt edge. Bias the holes towards the rear - say 1 hole in front of reference point, 3 holes rearwards of reference point (look at the wallbike picture). You need more tension in the rear end where it sags due to longer unsupported span.

Do not use the Brooks logo stamp on the sides as a reference point for starting the hole locating process - it seems to be stamped by hand without template guide and the location will vary by more than 1cm from side to side, front to rear. Probably better to lay a ruler down center line, then measure off 90 degrees to each side from there - this should establish starting point as well as any other method, since your eye won't be able to discern minor errors due to the irregular shape of the saddle.

Since we're on the subject, I gotta say Brooks Proofide stinks to my nose, and it's a persistent odor. Its main component is tallow (rendered animal fat, leftovers from meat/leather processing). This must be the best thing in the world to put on your saddle to make it attractive as a meal for rodents, foxes, bear etc. Add some salt from perspiration and its perfect. I used a beeswax leather waterproofer that had in my chemical bin, leftover from its last use 25 years ago - SnoSeal - to undercoat my B17 saddle. Just like old hiking boots, I melted the excess beeswax into the leather with a hair dryer. Saturated the leather with beeswax. Beeswax has very little odor. My guess is its less appetizing to varmints - its certainly less appetizing to micro-organisms, since beeswax will never rot. I think I read that the ancient Eygptians used beeswax as a preservative.

You should apply any leather treatment for saddle conditioning judiciously, since a side-effect of making the leather softer (less rigid or stiff) is that the saddle will become more pliable and give more under load (sag), and then you'll need to compensate with retensioning and tricks like saddle-tying.

Excellent cautionary advise above. I also agree on the SnoSeal, which can never over soften thick hide blank. Beeswax is the best water-resistance treatment for working leather. Water-proofing can only be achieved by the use of silicones - which will permanently ruin the wicking characteristic of leather. Don't do it. Fine for work boots, which you throw away after a couple years, but not a bike saddle.

My experience with "sag" is that some 17's come with a perfectly straight spine out of the box, while others have a slight curve. My newest has a full 1cm sag and feels just fine. The oldest one has developed this as a function of wearing-in. No adjustments needed.

If you are a superclyde (I'm 235 to 240lbs myself), a sag at 200 miles is normal. Heavier riders break 'em in faster. Go easy on the wrench, because a big guy will also tear 'em faster, too, if you over stretch the hide. It goes to reason that we will require more from the leather than a lightweight rider, so maybe the sag is a good thing.

As an Englishman who has ridden English Brooks saddles for over 25 years could I once more recommend Lanolin for your saddles.
totally waterproof ( it works for sheep), and does not soften the saddle too much.

george

Excellent cautionary advise above. I also agree on the SnoSeal, which can never over soften thick hide blank. Beeswax is the best water-resistance treatment for working leather. Water-proofing can only be achieved by the use of silicones - which will permanently ruin the wicking characteristic of leather. Don't do it. Fine for work boots, which you throw away after a couple years, but not a bike saddle.

My experience with "sag" is that some 17's come with a perfectly straight spine out of the box, while others have a slight curve. My newest has a full 1cm sag and feels just fine. The oldest one has developed this as a function of wearing-in. No adjustments needed.

If you are a superclyde (I'm 235 to 240lbs myself), a sag at 200 miles is normal. Heavier riders break 'em in faster. Go easy on the wrench, because a big guy will also tear 'em faster, too, if you over stretch the hide. It goes to reason that we will require more from the leather than a lightweight rider, so maybe the sag is a good thing.

Maybe bigger persons should go with ticker saddles.
brooks-professional (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-professional.html)
brooks-conquest (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-conquest.html)

Maybe bigger persons should go with ticker saddles.
brooks-professional (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-professional.html)
brooks-conquest (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-conquest.html)

Possibly.
But I think the leather will only go so far, and then you may or may not want to tension it. Depends on how the saddle feels. If the owner doesn't over condition the leather, it should take a form and simply stop at the optimal point - once the weight has set the leather. I think this is true of mine. The two oldest ones have apparently stabilized at the maximum form. It's not just the sitbones, either. It's a perfect cast of every part of the contact surface.

Possibly.
But I think the leather will only go so far, and then you may or may not want to tension it. Depends on how the saddle feels. If the owner doesn't over condition the leather, it should take a form and simply stop at the optimal point - once the weight has set the leather. I think this is true of mine. The two oldest ones have apparently stabilized at the maximum form. It's not just the sitbones, either. It's a perfect cast of every part of the contact surface.

What is over condition the leather, and what is the correct way?

What is over condition the leather, and what is the correct way?

There are several correct methods to keep your Brooks alive and happy for many years. Ironically. most of them can also kill it off early as well. There are exceptions, but in a nutshell:

Working leather should remain firm - hard to the touch, even, but fully supportive to the weight of the rider. Exactly like an equestrian saddle, from which Brooks saddles directly evolved. Leather is the only material that forms to it's user and becomes as pressure neutral as can be. That means, no high or low spots and no hot spots as a result.

Over conditioning the hide can lead to a softening process that, once begun, cannot be halted. It's not that the vast variety of salves and unguents are bad for leather - they're not. They are good for leather. However, they can be over applied by well-meaning owners who feel that the hard piece of oak needs "something." It does. Lots of riding.

Here is an anecdotal story of a guy in our club who bought a Brooks 17 in winter. He didn't ride it much because of the weather, but felt it was very hard and needed to be a little softer. Despite my warning ( and those of others) he spent alot of time applying "leather conditioners" to it. Come spring, out he came with a beautiful honey brooks. No problems for a few weeks, and lots of positive remarks about how nice the thing is, and thanks for the great advice on what to buy, etc...

Well, as the weather warmed, the leather sagged and the skirts flopped. He re-tensioned, and again it sagged. He was warned. Suffice to say, he has a new one, and now only uses Proofide per instructions. Beeswax is fine, too, but he learned the hard way.

I'm not dissing the oils and other fine compounds that we use, but I'm saying: Go Easy on it. Be patient and just ride the saddle.