Advocacy & Safety - Don't ride on the line.

Many roadies think that it is better to ride on the line instead of staying within the bike lane. They think that riding on the line will make them more noticeable and important to a car.

This afternoon I saw some teenage girls (I think) in a Honda Accord almost hit a roadie riding on the line. The Accord's passenger side mirror brushed the roadies elbow hard as it passed. Though it wasn't hard enough to make the roadie fall off his bike it did make him go off balance and sway 10ft out and into the middle lane! Luckily it happened during a time of light traffic, otherwise that guy would have been f'd.

Don't ride on the line! Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can. Use a bike path whenever you can and get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane. Those who think that they share equal rights on the road as a car and think, that cars need to notice them are fitting to die.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.

Riding on the line isn't a very smart idea; either ride the middle of the bike lane and stay very alert, or take the lane and stay very alert. Riding the line just seems like an invitation for motorists to screw with you.

Riding on the line isn't a very smart idea; either ride the middle of the bike lane and stay very alert, or take the lane and stay very alert. Riding the line just seems like an invitation for motorists to screw with you.

Absolutely.

Don't ride on the line! Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can.
Where I ride, that puts me either within the door zone of parked cars, or in the gutter, or in the potholes. I don't ride the line, but I do ride near it.

Your last paragraph really scares me. If you can't adjust the stereo or talk on the phone and stay alert and in your lane, you need to seriously reevaluate your driving habits.

A load of drivel.

Did you at least try to get the license plate of the car, or were you too busy adjusting the radio?

I guess you didnt get enuff reaction trolling the So-Cal and folder forums ?...... http://www.thorstenkaye.com/troll.gif

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.

So if you're driving in the bike lane sometimes, why the hell would I want to ride there?

Riding on the line isn't a very smart idea; either ride the middle of the bike lane and stay very alert, or take the lane and stay very alert. Riding the line just seems like an invitation for motorists to screw with you.
+1. Sometimes compromise makes little sense. The problem is that some bike lanes are too narrow, and the lane stripe just happens to be where I would ride if there were no stripe. Ironically, those lanes push me farther out into the road.

Those who think that they share equal rights on the road as a car and think, that cars need to notice them are fitting to die.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.


yes, cyclists have the same rights to be on a road, in the appropriate lane of course, as a car. they DO HAVE equal rights in most places, it's just that their rights are not respected much.

and if you have been fiddling with things in your car and then looked up and found yourself in the wrong lane, STOP DRIVING please. you're a menace, and ultimately you'll be the cause of some roadie's death, and then won't you feel like a turd.

fiddling with the radio does not make you any less culpable of vehicular homicide. and why do you talk on the phone and drive at the same time? you should know that's terribly unsafe. your arrogance and flouting of the road rules will almost certainly harm others more than you, yet you just don't care. and you're proud to admit it! Huh, most responsible people in the same situation would go and off themselves.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.
Speculation on yamcha's next post:


Sometimes when I'm walking on the sidewalk, I take out a gun and randomly fire it. So when you see pedestrians, it's best to stay away from them. Otherwise, you're fitting to get shot.

Yamcha does make one useful point -



There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.


The clear message from this is that wherever you are you are not safe from incompetent drivers.

How about we stick to the real reason not to ride on the line. Paint on the road is lower friction than tarmac (tarmac is after all extensively tested for braking properties, durability etc) and can become hazardous in rain by making it much easier to skid under breaking.

My rule is - Don't ride on the line if breaking or it's wet. If it's dry and I'm pushing hard or accelerating then I'll ride on it if it's safe to do so (clearly it isn't in heavy traffic). I'm pretty sure that scaremongering doesn't help though...

In Australia the bike lanes are provided for cyclists to ride in.......but they can legally ride outside of it, to their own peril, of course. I used to ride close to the line, but after being run over by a car I try to ride in the middle of the bike lane. One major reason roadies stay near the line is that broken glass, tree debri, nails, wire etc etc gathers in the bike lane and with expensive tyres we try to avoid constant punctures. Maybe if local authorities did their job properly and swept these lanes on a weekly basis then cyclists would be happy to ride away from the line. ;)

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.

Dude, you're not the first bad driver to try to tell me to ride my bike on the sidewalk.

The first on BF, maybe.

Where I live there is no bike lane and I suspect that the majority of places in the US do not have them. Why don't you take your head out of your nether regions when you drive.

"..get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane" :rolleyes: typical motorist POV. are you a bicyclist, yamcha?

Many roadies think that it is better to ride on the line instead of staying within the bike lane. They think that riding on the line will make them more noticeable and important to a car.

This afternoon I saw some teenage girls (I think) in a Honda Accord almost hit a roadie riding on the line. The Accord's passenger side mirror brushed the roadies elbow hard as it passed. Though it wasn't hard enough to make the roadie fall off his bike it did make him go off balance and sway 10ft out and into the middle lane! Luckily it happened during a time of light traffic, otherwise that guy would have been f'd.

Don't ride on the line! Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can. Use a bike path whenever you can and get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane. Those who think that they share equal rights on the road as a car and think, that cars need to notice them are fitting to die.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.



That rather depends on the bike lane. Some of them are so narrow that riding within the lane means running over broken glass, sewer grates and other road hazards with little chance of evasion Others are so placed that a rider is constantly riding in the door zones of parked cars which is clearly a bad place to be. Regardless of where the line is, I take whatever space I feel is necessary to ensure my own safety. I have logged literally thousands of miles on my bikes and have only ever been clipped once (and that was in a province where bikes are comparatively uncommon and it was at a very slow speed). Bike paths are also few and far between to some key destinations and speed is restricted by the presence of lollygagging pedestrians and gargantuan baby strollers.

If it's a choice between riding near the left line or riding squarely in the door zone, I'll choose the former almost every time.

Agreed that riding on striping is an ambigous postion. BL stripes do remove rideable space, often the prime location, in what otherwise could be a nice wide lane.

Al

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.

You need to pay more attention to the road.

You are also a troll.

Many roadies think that it is better to ride on the line instead of staying within the bike lane. They think that riding on the line will make them more noticeable and important to a car.

This afternoon I saw some teenage girls (I think) in a Honda Accord almost hit a roadie riding on the line. The Accord's passenger side mirror brushed the roadies elbow hard as it passed. Though it wasn't hard enough to make the roadie fall off his bike it did make him go off balance and sway 10ft out and into the middle lane! Luckily it happened during a time of light traffic, otherwise that guy would have been f'd.

Don't ride on the line! Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can. Use a bike path whenever you can and get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane. Those who think that they share equal rights on the road as a car and think, that cars need to notice them are fitting to die.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.


This is a forum for bicyclists. Do you bicycle?

And you suck at driving too. STFU.

Why didn't you call in that Honda Accord for a hit and run accident? It sounds almost like you sympathize with dangerous drivers. Please, do all the cyclists in the world a favor and put a sign on your car saying "I'm a dangerous driver who sometimes doesn't pay attention to the road and might hit you." That way, we can all be warned and stay the hell away from you.

this guy is just trolling. he knows that he's pushing everyone buttons...don't fall for it.

Yamcha does make one useful point -


There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.


The clear message from this is that wherever you are you are not safe from incompetent drivers.

No. The clear message is that wherever you go there are are incompetent drivers out there, so: ride accordingly.

In particular, the above quote from Yamcha is merely a confession of a typical driver who has noticed himself drifting inadvertently from time to time. Note that order things happen:


"I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo"
[driver looks away from the road]
[driver drifts]
"I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane."

(2) and (3) are implied (by the words of (4)) and in an inadvertent drift they always follows (1), so what I try to do is ride in a manner that reduces the possibility of (1). How? By riding in a manner that grabs the attention of drivers as early as possible so that they become focused on me rather than on their wandering thoughts, the radio or their phone conversation, causing them to delay (2) until they pass me.

Don't feed the troll.

I guess you didnt get enuff reaction trolling the So-Cal and folder forums ?...... http://www.thorstenkaye.com/troll.gif

Apparently not.

Many roadies think that it is better to ride on the line instead of staying within the bike lane. They think that riding on the line will make them more noticeable and important to a car. If the bike lane is next to parked cars, riding on the line is far preferable to riding in the centre of the lane. If you get buzzed while doing this, move into the regular traffic lane - that means the bike lane isn't fit to ride in.


Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can. Yeah, and set yourself up for a nice door prize


Use a bike path whenever you can and get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane. Dude, which one of the two are you: a troll or an idiot?

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane. Get off the road. You are a danger to everyone and unfit to drive.

On second thought... maybe go kill yourself.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.
Get off the road. You are a danger to everyone and unfit to drive.

On second thought... maybe go kill yourself.
Chephy, I usually agree with you, but whether he's being honest or trolling, I believe the above statement could be truthfully uttered by almost any driver who is honest about his or her own driving habits. I think it would be very difficult to find any driver anywhere who has never drifted from his intended path at one time or another for one reason or another. Does that mean everyone is unfit to drive? I don't think so.

riding on the line, depending on what type of material it is, can actually reduce the rolling resistance... not a good idea in the rain - but certainly if it is dry and you are doing a long ride.

;)

Of course, if you were riding in the bike lane, Yamcha would hit you. If you were riding on the white line separating the bike lane from the next lane, Yamcha would hit you. If you were riding anywhere in front of him, Yamcha would hit you.

But at least he has his mobile ready to dial 911 - there's foresight for you.

Once he'd finished his phone call, of course (uncalled for insult - he'd no doubt stop talking immediately)

There is no way Yamcha is serious about his post. He obviously has studied the threads in this forum. There is no way he could possibly conjure up a post so anti everything for which this forum stands except that he did so purposely. I'm not taking the bait on this one.

Caruso

like Johnny Cash, sometimes I even walk the line.

like Johnny Cash, sometimes I even walk the line.

I keep my eyes wide open all the time.

like Johnny Cash, sometimes I even walk the line.

but stay out of the ring of fire...

+1 first for me on BF, too


Dude, you're not the first bad driver to try to tell me to ride my bike on the sidewalk.

The first on BF, maybe.

Of course, if you were riding in the bike lane, Yamcha would hit you. If you were riding on the white line separating the bike lane from the next lane, Yamcha would hit you. If you were riding anywhere in front of him, Yamcha would hit you.


I don't agree that third part (in red) is clear at all.

See Post #22. If you were riding somewhere in front of him in his intended path for a signficant period before he decided to look away, then you are much more likely to grab his attention (because you are in his path) and cause him to slow down and or change lanes, and not decide to look away until after he has passed you.

Is this not obvious to no one else?

There is no way Yamcha is serious about his post. He obviously has studied the threads in this forum. There is no way he could possibly conjure up a post so anti everything for which this forum stands except that he did so purposely. I'm not taking the bait on this one.

Caruso
Whether he is genuine or a troll, the view he presents is sufficiently common for cyclists to need to take it into account when we're riding.

Is this not obvious to no one else?

No.

The old tired refrain, which leads to a discussion of the frequency of cars rear-ending things as big and in-the-way as buses.

And then you asserting that you are more obvious than any bus.

Next...

No.

The old tired refrain, which leads to a discussion of the frequency of cars rear-ending things as big and in-the-way as buses.

And then you asserting that you are more obvious than any bus.

Next...
The fact that in some situations drivers can overlook and rear-end something as big and in-the-way as a bus does not mean that cyclist in a driver's path is not significantly more likely to grab more attention sooner than the same cyclist further to the right.

Couple this with the fact that in most bus rear-enders it's not about overlooking the bus, but not expecting it to stop or slow when it does, and not paying attention at that moment. What makes this more likely is that the driver behind the bus usually can't see what's in front of the bus, and so can't see what is about to make the bus slow or stop. So he might assume the bus will keep going and will choose to look away and deal with a distraction at that moment. With bikes the motorist can easily see around and beyond the cyclist, and is highly unlikely to be surprised by a sudden slowing or stopping of the cyclist. Besides, anyone who rides in traffic regularly knows that motorists tend to give a lot of space to cyclists and motorcyclists in front of them, much more than they usually leave for cars, trucks and buses. This is also why motorcyclists getting rear-ended is relatively rare.

The fact that in some situations drivers can overlook and rear-end something as big and in-the-way as a bus does not mean that cyclist in a driver's path is not significantly more likely to grab more attention sooner than the same cyclist further to the right.

I think it's also obvious to motorists that a bicycle ahead automatically means relatively slow. This works for us in that a driver approaching from the rear sees the moving object in front as going slower. It also works against us when a driver pulling onto the road from a side street, driveway or parking lot may not recognize that the cyclist may be traveling faster than expected.

I also think motorists often recognize a vehicle type, i.e., motor vehicle or bicycle, as being operated about as fast as they would operate that vehicle. In other words, a motor vehicle, whether Ferrari or school bus, is typically seen as traveling around or above the speed limit. While seeing a bicycle may equate to around 5 mph.


With bikes the motorist can easily see around and beyond the cyclist,...

However, they don't always look ahead of the cyclist for on-coming traffic before pulling out to pass.

Back to the OP:

Many roadies think that it is better to ride on the line instead of staying within the bike lane. They think that riding on the line will make them more noticeable and important to a car.

This afternoon I saw some teenage girls (I think) in a Honda Accord almost hit a roadie riding on the line. The Accord's passenger side mirror brushed the roadies elbow hard as it passed. Though it wasn't hard enough to make the roadie fall off his bike it did make him go off balance and sway 10ft out and into the middle lane! Luckily it happened during a time of light traffic, otherwise that guy would have been f'd.

Don't ride on the line! Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can. Use a bike path whenever you can and get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane. Those who think that they share equal rights on the road as a car and think, that cars need to notice them are fitting to die.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.

I agree that the cyclist should be plainly in the BL (if present), or obviously in the traffic lane. To try to split the difference on the line, is to invite close passes. The sidewalk idea is completely rediculous. Driving while distracted is idiotic. Lacking the ability to accommodate other vehicle types on the road is stupid.

What you saw was an Accord being driven by a moron that doesn't even understand the simple action of how to pass.

With bikes the motorist can easily see around and beyond the cyclist, and is highly unlikely to be surprised by a sudden slowing or stopping of the cyclist.

If this were true, we would very rarely see trucks and SUVs rear-ending cars. But I see this often. Far more often than, for instance, cars veering over into things on the side of the road, which is the more relevant collision type in most cyclist's risk factors.




This is also why motorcyclists getting rear-ended is relatively rare.

I would think it has more to do with the relatively low number of motorbikes, and the fact that they are usually among the fastest vehicles on the road. Why do you think otherwise?

Yamcha is well known in the SoCal forums for preaching and causing trouble. ;)

Anyway, if someone is swerving into the bike lane, a foot or two isn't going to make too much of a difference MOST of the time. Especially if their eyes are off the road. Sure this guy only got clipped, the next guy will probably be all the way to the right of the bike lane when he gets hit by someone texting while driving.

I'd recommend a mirror over thinking that because you're further to the right that you're safe, keep an eye on what cars are doing if you're really going to try to be that safe.


As for where you ride, I can't always ride to the right of the bike lane, seriously I question some people's designs of roadways, where bike lanes dip in and out of gutters and across grates, I'd take my chance on the left side of the bike lane as opposed to taking a tire into a grate. The grate will no move, and if I hit it, I'm really likely going down. ;) Of course I try my best, sometimes even taking the concrete that is part of the curb section I'm so far over to the right, but it all depends on what is the most safe overall weighting where I am, the road surface, it's condition, traffic, obstacles and debris on the road.

Basically: Be smart about how you ride, ride where you're safe from obstacles from both sides, and be aware of what vehicles are doing, you can't use one solid rule as to where to be on the road in all circumstances.


I really question how Yamcha has trolled forum after forum and hasn't been bansticked yet.

I really question how Yamcha has trolled forum after forum and hasn't been bansticked yet.

He didn't call another "respected" member an ahole. :rolleyes:

I always thought riding on the line was a bad idea. being in the drift zone is almost as bad as being in the door zone, if not as bad.

I sometimes like the line. it's a half mile an hour faster. and smoother than chipseal.

The whole roads' the drift zone, with avid drivers like Helemt Head and Yamcha out there.

If this were true, we would very rarely see trucks and SUVs rear-ending cars. But I see this often. Far more often than, for instance, cars veering over into things on the side of the road, which is the more relevant collision type in most cyclist's risk factors.
Bikes and motorcycles are much easier to see around and ahead of than are cars, even for drivers in trucks and SUVs. Plus, just because a driver can see over a car, doesn't mean he will look. A bicyclist in front of a driver tends to be more attention-grabbing than a car, truck, SUV or bus.



I would think it has more to do with the relatively low number of motorbikes, and the fact that they are usually among the fastest vehicles on the road. Why do you think otherwise?
Speed is irrelevant in most rear-enders, which usually occur at slow speeds in stop/go traffic. The biggest factor is attention, and lack there of, on the part of the rear-ending driver. When I'm in slow stop/go traffic (most often: approaching a red light), drivers clearly notice me and give me and motorcyclists more space than they do for cars, trucks and buses.

A bicyclist in front of a driver tends to be more attention-grabbing than a car, truck, SUV or bus.

I disagree.



Speed is irrelevant in most rear-enders, which usually occur at slow speeds in stop/go traffic.

Which makes your discussion of this type of slow-speed accident mostly irrelevant.

With regards to higher-speed rear-end accidents, which I would be interested in seeing the motorcycle involvement rate data you are implying you have.

I sometimes like the line. it's a half mile an hour faster. and smoother than chipseal.

The whole roads' the drift zone, with avid drivers like Helemt Head and Yamcha out there.

+1

It's sooo smooth. ;)

Many roadies think that it is better to ride on the line instead of staying within the bike lane. They think that riding on the line will make them more noticeable and important to a car.

This afternoon I saw some teenage girls (I think) in a Honda Accord almost hit a roadie riding on the line. The Accord's passenger side mirror brushed the roadies elbow hard as it passed. Though it wasn't hard enough to make the roadie fall off his bike it did make him go off balance and sway 10ft out and into the middle lane! Luckily it happened during a time of light traffic, otherwise that guy would have been f'd.

Don't ride on the line! Stay inside of the bike lane and as far right and away from the cars as you can. Use a bike path whenever you can and get on the sidewalk when there isn't a bike lane. Those who think that they share equal rights on the road as a car and think, that cars need to notice them are fitting to die.

There have been times while driving that I have been absent minded or talking on a cell phone or adjusting volume controls on the stereo that when I looked up I found myself driving partially in the next lane and sometimes, the bike lane.


Don't waste your time with this troll.

MMMM....trollfood!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll