Foo - Old != Better

<rant>
Something I've noticed for years, long before BikeForums or even internet forums for that matter....most people automatically think the old things are better than new things.

Why? Why are people so closed-minded and think because something is new, it's "cheaper" or "has less quality"? That is often true, but its often NOT true also.

All good music did NOT stop at any point in time. There are still good bands if you have an open mind and actually listen.

Good movies did not end when color came out. There are still great movies made now and then. And do you know what? Some old movies sucked too!

Cars? Books? Bikes?

Why do so many people (and I see it here in Foo all the time, still) think that OLD=BETTER? That's extremely closed-minded thinking IMO.

OLD != BETTER

Some older things are better, some newer things are better. Open your mind to all possibilities people. You sound like Archie Bunker sometimes, I swear to god.
</rant>

I don't know I think old=better when its about me :D

What precipitated this rant is what I wanna know.

I agree that old != better all the time

Usually it stems from people enjoying things with much greater enthusiasm and devotion as a child/teenager.
Then as they age and mellow, they still see new things, but remember the 'old' things with a lot of fondness and nostalgia, making it seem better than it really is.
So then they start saying stuff like "music today is crap, the [insert decade of music here] had the real good stuff' or 'they just dont make cars like they used to

look we all know the commode64 was the pinnacle of computer development.
The Huffy Thunder Road was the best bike ever made or will be made.
The Beetle was the end all be all of automotive development.

So what's your point?

If old was better, I wouldn't have a job.

New muscle cars suck, new 10/22's suck, new rock in the mainstream sucks, but new computers are awesome! I do however believe that products sold in stores, in general, are much cheaper than they used to be. Back when I was just leaving the stage of ****ting in diapers, a lot of stuff at stores was made in the US. Now, so much crap is made to extremely low standards in China that I think it's pretty fair to say a lot of nick nacks and crap aren't made as well as they used to be.

The thing about movies, old and new, is that the bulk of movies suck, and that will never change. For my tastes, I have to search accross the timeline of movies to select things I like. Some as old as the 30's, some as new as a few years old. But there isn't much.

Old dry-rotted tires and dry, cracked cork tape. Woohoo for old stuff!

Seriously, some old things were manufactured really well, and if they were cared for properly they still operate fine. There's a lot of old things that were manufactured well but engineered poorly (by modern standards) and even though they work like new, the standards they operate to are outdated.

Think about dynohubs. They've been around for a long time. There are well maintained dynohubs that still operate within the original standards. Of course, the engineering behind the technology has advanced, and newer ones are way more efficient and just as durable.

I like my old road bike with the 7spd 105sc downtube shifters and I don't plan to upgrade it. Then again, I'm also gathering parts to build a brand new bike.

The only time I'll argue that old == better is when you're talking about single malt scotch. :)

New bread >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old bread

IMO anyway

New bread >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old bread

IMO anyway

No way, never. Although I'm drawing a distinction between "old" and "fresh" in this case.

Sourdough breads made from long-term starter cultures are fantastic. Poilane bakery uses a continuous culture which was started back in the early 1930s.

Sourdough breads made from long-term starter cultures are fantastic. Poilane bakery uses a continuous culture which was started back in the early 1930s.I could have gone my whole life without knowing that fact. Really, I could have. :rolleyes:

Whites Only -------------- Colored Only

I would have to say some things have gotten better! :D

+1 on the OP's view. So many people are still locked into the same music they listened to in high school.

Pink Floyd, The Byrds, Metallica, and the Doors are/were decent bands, but music hasn't stopped being made (even though most radio stations want people to believe that, so they play the same 30-40 songs over and over). There are a lot of bands deserving an ear.

i don't think the brain can stay current on so many products, music, movies, books, clothes, and culture all changing every year.

when you do hear new stuff after being out of it for so long, it seems foreign and strange.

My birthday was Monday, and I firmly believe that Old!=better!!

:)

<rant>
Something I've noticed for years, long before BikeForums or even internet forums for that matter....most people automatically think the old things are better than new things.

Why? Why are people so closed-minded and think because something is new, it's "cheaper" or "has less quality"? That is often true, but its often NOT true also.

All good music did NOT stop at any point in time. There are still good bands if you have an open mind and actually listen.

Good movies did not end when color came out. There are still great movies made now and then. And do you know what? Some old movies sucked too!

Cars? Books? Bikes?

Why do so many people (and I see it here in Foo all the time, still) think that OLD=BETTER? That's extremely closed-minded thinking IMO.

OLD != BETTER

Some older things are better, some newer things are better. Open your mind to all possibilities people. You sound like Archie Bunker sometimes, I swear to god.
</rant>

not everything

old high quality is better than new low quality

older whiskey typically better than younger whiskey

older woman ... it depends:)

Older I am - better I used to be!

not everything

old high quality is better than new low quality

older whiskey typically better than younger whiskey

older woman ... it depends:)

Older I am - better I used to be!
You are pretty much making my point. One must be open-minded and see that some things may have been better in old days, but there are still plenty of things that are better now. Just open your eyes and make your own judgments.

Even in product quality. Cars in the old days wouldn't be able to go 100,000 before first oil change like some do now. But toys in the old days were made solid and meant to last where toys today are typically cheap and flimsy and don't last long at all. It's all relative.

Hey ya old fart... ya suck!


//jk

For me it's OLD != Chinese made so OLD=Better is probably true.

Just ask Mattel. LOL!

Hey ya old fart... ya suck!I do even more than that when in the right mood. ;)

:roflmao:

My birthday was Monday, and I firmly believe that Old!=better!!

:)

O.o My birthday was Monday too!

Hey ya old fart... ya suck!


//jk

Old fart > New fart, especially a well aged old fart!

I like both....... I am really drawn into the classic lines/styles and the way things were...... but that is just because I wasn't alive at that time so I wonder about it!!! The reason I am hopelessly addicted to Colorado history!! Do I think older is better... on certian items YES... but for me it is the rule of "Know where you have been so you understand where you are going" I love new and different... I also like to see how items have changed!

For me it's OLD != Chinese made so OLD=Better is probably true.

Just ask Mattel. LOL!

Old = Better + Chinese made : Ming porcelain vases.

Old = Better + Chinese made : Ming porcelain vases.

Is that the last time they actually made something that wasn't counterfeit? LOL

You are pretty much making my point. One must be open-minded and see that some things may have been better in old days, but there are still plenty of things that are better now. Just open your eyes and make your own judgments.


My pleasure;)

Even in product quality. Cars in the old days wouldn't be able to go 100,000 before first oil change like some do now. But toys in the old days were made solid and meant to last where toys today are typically cheap and flimsy and don't last long at all. It's all relative.


on the other hand old wrenches (or wenches:)) are made in usa and still can take the abuse - unlike shiny tools made in taiwan/india/china

on the other hand old wrenches (or wenches:)) are made in usa and still can take the abuse - unlike shiny tools made in taiwan/india/china

My whole point is that every case is different. It's not always one way or the other.

<rant>
Something I've noticed for years, long before BikeForums or even internet forums for that matter....most people automatically think the old things are better than new things.I know you weren't implying this, but it's also fair to point out that newer doesn't necessarily equal better, either. I seem to run into that attitude more often than "older = better."


Why? Why are people so closed-minded and think because something is new, it's "cheaper" or "has less quality"? That is often true, but its often NOT true also.Personally, I find it to be true so often that I can't help but wonder how crappy a new item/product/thing might be. I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong, however.

I'll admit that I tend to like older things. I prefer older cars almost exclusively over newer ones for reasons of styling, simplicity, and just plain overall fun.

I like steel bikes, be they old or new. I guess you could call it an "old" technology or material, but it still feels modern to me, and I'm just not interested in plastic, weaved with carbon fiber or not. Not a slight against those who do ride carbon fiber bikes (and my eye is occasionally drawn to nice examples), I just don't prefer them, is all.

While I'm not a big reader, there's something that really gets me about older (75-100 years old or more) books. I love them. I might start collecting them at some point, regardless of the topic.

Other than books, a lot of general items catch my eye and heart when they get old. Something about standing the test of time, and really proving themselves, I guess.

I don't hate new things. I just really love old things, and I don't see a problem with that. :)

My whole point is that every case is different. It's not always one way or the other.

Yup, generalisation is the way to hell. It id like me saying all americans are lost on world geography or all czechs are hockey players or all germans eat sauerkraut... u name it

Both people and things that are older have more hype resistance.

I dunno, I like the simplicity of DT shifters and lugged steel frames. Not better, not worse, just different ;) I like the fact that field expedient repairs are easier with them.

Faster horses
Older whiskey
Younger Women
More Money

Older = older.

Better = better.

They are independent variables. Also, "older," while relative, is objective. This is either older than That, or it isn't - it doesn't change from one person to the next. "Better," however, is subjective, changing willy-nilly from one person to the next.

So to clear up the confusion, I hereby proclaim myself the Grand High Arbiter of What is Better, Bicycling Bureau, Roadie Division. Thus, it is hereby decreed that road bike frames run from better to worse as follows:

Quality brazed steel, lugged or fillet-brazed (Reynolds is best, Columbus is next, Tange, TrueTemper, Ishiwata, Vitus, Dedacchi and everything else is next, but all are close enough to not really matter much);

TIG-welded steel (steel is still real, but TIG-welding just isn't as cool as brazing - literally and figuratively);

Titanium (3/2.5 is better than 6/4, not for any performance reasons, but because you can draw 3/2.5 into seamless tubes, and you have to fold-and-weld 6/4 - or at least you used to have to do it that way);

Carbon fiber (sorry, CF is still a fancy way of saying "plastic" and I refuse to believe that plastic won't break down over time under exposure to UV rays);

Aluminum (bend it once = bad: bend it twice = disaster);

Gas pipe (a Varsity weighs as much as some tandems);

Anything Pheard owns (self-explanatory). :D


Glad I could clear up that little controversy. Tomorrow, I settle the "Campy vs. Shimano" debate once and for all. :p

I do even more than that when in the right mood. ;)

oh that was naughty:eek::eek:

Older tends to be cheaper, and cheaper is better in my book.

oh that was naughty:eek::eek:

Pffft. I've been called worse.

Faster horses
Older whiskey
Younger Women
More Money

Exactly! :)

Some old things are better IMO....not all, but some.

I prefer older sports cars to newer ones....fuel injection still does not have the responsive feel of a well-tuned carb.....computers screw up more often than distributors do....interiors are too busy (who the hell needs a nav system in a sports car?).....to me sports cars should be the most primal connection of human and road...feel the road, be the road....no interruptions besides fuel, and if music while driving is your thing, the changing of a CD.

On the other hand newer cars have better driver safety in the event of a crash, better fuel economy, better comfort and sometimes better handling (when the added weight of all this special sauce is considered...).

Now for tools....It depends....I like the older early 90s craftsman tools over the new ones....they managed to make a no-slip flathead screwdriver....but they quit making it, those bastidges.


Audio equipment.....vintage has a nice style and panache to it, but no doubt modern gear has it beats hands-down....even better, refit a vinatage speaker with modern technology and have a nice blend of both worlds (I did this to a Sansui SP-35 set and the result was amazing).



Most household electronics....newer. Old blenders and such weight a freaking ton. Honestly I'd rather not have 100lbs of stuff in a overhead cabinet waiting to split my skull open like a meat cleaver through an orange. That and modern gear often is more energy efficient.


My only gripe with new stuff is many items are designed to be as cheap as possible, and that means making them "disposable" (read: almost impossible to service), so that the user has to buy a new one instead of sending it in for repair. This is pretty annoying at the least.....

I think that's where the old stuff fans come from....they just like the comfort of using the same item they bought 10-15 years ago...no learning a new model, no shopping for a new one when theirs breaks....just fix it and ride on.


It's odd...I'm a fan of some old stuff, but I'm still a gadget hound....I dunno, maybe working in the electronics industry has taught me that technology is actually as dull and boring as any other field....so appreciate the few cool things that come along, and that's all.