Advocacy & Safety - Riding in door zones

Do you regularly ride in door zones?

(Please answer the poll and expand on your answer in a post, as desired).

I ride in door zones if I'm not moving fast. I have plenty of distance and reaction to stop if I need to, and I don't hold up auto traffic.

If I'm going too fast to see far enough ahead, or if traffic is too congested for me to jump into the center of the lane quickly, I take the full lane.

The only time I ride in door zones is when I'm filtering up a line of cars veeeery slooooowly, to the point where an opening door wouldn't even cause me to fall down because I'd have enough time to react.

Otherwise, no. It's suicide.

I voted other because sometimes there is no other place to ride, I live in a city that was laid out almost 400 years ago so even taking the lane is in the door zone.

I ride near or in the door zone when I'm filtering and sometimes in traffic, but only if I can see inside cars to see if there is anyone inside or going slowly enough to react. I avoid it when I can though. I ride there often enough that I voted regularly and never doored in that I do it almost every day, but it does make up a fairly small amount of my riding.

Only when I don't have a choice. When I do, I watch door mirrors for any signs of movement so I can stop hard to avoid a collision. I still feel vulnerable regardless, especially if I'm on the BMX because I don't think most SUV or truck drivers could even see me in their mirrors, provided they actually checked.

the door zone where i live is called the lane, so yes i ride in them

I ride with cars and traffic, some of it stopped. I ride uphill slower than downhill.

I ride with cars and traffic, some of it stopped. I ride uphill slower than downhill.


I have to say 'other' Bekologist because on most rural roads it is not an issue. But whether I am in a car, or on a bike occasionally riding along a chain of parked cars, it is absolutely frightening.
Not only am I afraid that a door may fly open at any moment, but I am also afraid the children or dimwitted adults will pop out between the parked cars. If there is one thing that reading these forums has made clear to me, is how much of a threat parked cars are to cycling commuters.

roughstuff

I ride right next to the door.

Its called watching cars

I know its hard but people have to try

http://www.citynews.ca/images/2007-09/sep2007-streercar.jpg (http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_14948.aspx)

"Police raced to Queen and Leslie Sts. during the dinner hour Thursday, after a man was hit by a streetcar and then fell underneath the vehicle [a streetcar]. The victim was riding his bike at the time and swerved to avoid another driver, who had opened his car door as he was passing by."

BTW, he walked away w/ a few cuts and bruises.

roughstuff- I ride downtown and urban Seattle as a dedicated transportational bicyclist.

I ride uphill slower than downhill.

Hah! Isn't that called gravity Bek? :D

Seriously, I answered no ... and I have never been doored. However, after reviewing other answers, it is the case that if traffic is at a virtual standstill and a small space is available for me to filter up a bike lane--often encroached upon in certain areas--I technically ride in the door zone at a slow pace.

invisible hand, riding uphill at a slow speed, for example on a loaded commuter bike, past parked cars while you do 6-7 MPH allows some egress into the door zone with very, VERY little risk.

invisible hand, riding uphill at a slow speed, for example on a loaded commuter bike, past parked cars while you do 6-7 MPH allows some egress into the door zone with very, VERY little risk.

I understand Bek. I was not commenting on whether it is safe or not: I agree with you by the way. Mind you, I think you are doing fine without any comments from me. ;)

I was just making a joke.

-G

the door zone where i live is called the lane, so yes i ride in them

Same here, I'd have to ride center the lane to give 5 feet, it's a two laned narrow road at 35mph. So I try to stick as far right as possible (a foot from the car if even that), and am still worried about being clipped from my left. I figure if someone has opens a door in front of me, a car is going to take the door off first before I get to it. ;)

If I have room, or it's not busy, I stay out away from the cars though.

I have to say 'other' Bekologist because on most rural roads it is not an issue. But whether I am in a car, or on a bike occasionally riding along a chain of parked cars, it is absolutely frightening.
Not only am I afraid that a door may fly open at any moment, but I am also afraid the children or dimwitted adults will pop out between the parked cars. If there is one thing that reading these forums has made clear to me, is how much of a threat parked cars are to cycling commuters.

roughstuff
I have good visibility on my bike, actually better than in my car by many times. I can understand maybe someone in a heavily tinted window or a little kid opening a door, but I can see people inbetween cars fine. However you have to be paying attention, and lots of people don't, car, bike, walking....

Same here, I'd have to ride center the lane to give 5 feet, it's a two laned narrow road at 35mph. So I try to stick as far right as possible (a foot from the car if even that), and am still worried about being clipped from my left. ...

Through downtown Encinitas, Coast Highway 101 is a 4-lane road with a posted 30mph / 50kph speed limit. Because of parallel parking on some blocks and diagonal parking on others, I take the center of the right lane, getting honked occasionally, but not frequently.

If I must, I will. But I will lower my speed, and look inside the cars, and watch for outher signs, break light comming on, etc

I ride on the wrong side of the road, positioned "centerish" in the lane, directly into oncoming traffic.

I find that it helps make me more "relevant" to approaching traffic, and improves my "cognitive conspicuity".

Why are Head Polls (TM) always phrased in such a way that you have to choose "other".

I frequently ride closer to the door zone than I probably should but I have never had a problem. It's always a balancing act between trying to ride safely and trying to show some courtesy to the poor frustrated people who didn't leave home early enough for whatever the heck they're in such a hurry to get to.

What bugs me is that this poll needs to be multiple choice, I switch it up depending on what the road circumstances will allow me to safely do, but thinking of a little commute run I do, I end up hugging a handful of cars on the side of the road for a half a mile or so. So I figure I got more miles hugging cars than I do not hugging them.

Condensed poll:

1. Yes, I ride in the city [checkbox]

2. No, I ride mainly in rural areas [checkbox]

3. No, I don't ride, I make polls [checkbox]

In dense urban development, most of where I live and ride, all portions of the road are door zones by the JF acolyte formula. Dooring is a concern but the only solution available for about 100,000+ cyclists in this area would be to stay home.


of course, this would be a perfectly acceptable solution according to JF & HH, as there are no qualified cyclists among those 100,000+ by the standards they hold. Nevermind that JF & HH don't ride bikes regularly, that's beside the point.

Why are Head Polls (TM) always phrased in such a way that you have to choose "other".

I frequently ride closer to the door zone than I probably should but I have never had a problem. It's always a balancing act between trying to ride safely and trying to show some courtesy to the poor frustrated people who didn't leave home early enough for whatever the heck they're in such a hurry to get to.

So, why would one of the following choices not fit what you do?

Yes, I regularly ride in door zones and have never been doored.
No, I avoid riding in door zones.

Or is it more to do with your hate towards HH?

I avoid riding in door zones whenever possible. Fortunately, I've rarely had to ride in door zones. During those times, I ride very slowly and have never been doored.

So, why would one of the following choices not fit what you do?

Yes, I regularly ride in door zones and have never been doored.
No, I avoid riding in door zones.

Or is it more to do with your hate towards HH?

"Regularly" makes it sound like a routine, like you regularly take a shower, or regularly take some medicine, I think the major problem here is people try to make every aspect of riding safely a 100% routine, as opposed to evaluating the conditions, then choosing the safest available choice.

I generally try to avoid door zones, but there are a couple of places in my commute where that's just not practical. In those places, I look into the cars as far ahead as I can, looking for people in the drivers seat. If I see anyone, I move out if I can, or hit the bell or the horn or do whatever it takes to make them realize that I'm there.

So, why would one of the following choices not fit what you do?

Yes, I regularly ride in door zones and have never been doored.
No, I avoid riding in door zones.

Or is it more to do with your hate towards HH?


"Regularly" makes it sound like a routine, like you regularly take a shower, or regularly take some medicine, I think the major problem here is people try to make every aspect of riding safely a 100% routine, as opposed to evaluating the conditions, then choosing the safest available choice.
Your post does not make sense in the context of the question.

So whatever word you want to use, regularly, routinely, often, most of the time, frequently:

When you try evaluating the conditions, then choosing the safest available choice,
Do you often ride in door zones?

or

Do you avoid riding in door zones?

for those of us that actually ride our bikes.....versus internet safety nannies posting vapid safety 'tips' and endless A&S polls,

sometimes ya do, and sometimes ya don't.

by applying one of the original poster's worthless, saccharine safety slogans, trust but verify, the original poster could very well ride in door zones all day long....it's against the law to open a door before ascertaining it's clear, so he could trust that drivers won't open their doors, but verify there is no one in a car ready to open the door before proceeding past it in the door zone.

:roflmao: trust, but verify head, and you too could ride in door zones. trust, but verify.

for those of us that actually ride our bikes.....versus internet safety nannies posting vapid safety 'tips' and endless A&S polls,

sometimes ya do, and sometimes ya don't.
So you do not condsider riding in door zones a safety issue!
Typical useless post from Bek.

oh, no, i do consider passing cars a safety issue, CBHI.

my last post echoes the reality of riding a bicycle in a suburban/urban environment.

sometimes ya ride the door zone, and sometimes ya don't. there's a lot of variables involved, and you certainly do not have to avoid all cars with five feet of clearance. Pretending, insisting that's a valid blanket bicycling method, to be applied universally in the urban environment, is what's worthless. just like this thread.

I voted "other".
Some of my bikes have frame mounted fairings, and when I ride them , I have some protection from the cars doors, so I ride closer to the parked cars.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/photo015.jpg
One time I was doored, and my fairing hit the edge of the door, by the door-lock, and the sheet metal folded over inward. The car door could not be closed after that.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/photo003.jpg
My theory is that if the car suatains damage, motorists will be far more likely to LOOK the next time they open their door. Motorists , many of them anyway, only think about themselves. If a cyclist gets injured and there is no damage to the car, the motorist won't change his bad habits.

So you do not condsider riding in door zones a safety issue!
Typical useless post from Bek.
Look who's talking about "useless" posts!

Typical meaningless jive about an alleged "safety issue" from the usual suspects.

Riding in a door zone is a "safety issue" just like riding in traffic is a "safety issue", or riding on a bike path is a safety issue, or choosing not to ride at all is a "safety issue."

Making knowledgeable decisions about safety requires evaluating the alternative options/risks. The simplistic rants about the "safety issues" related to door zone fail to consider that the door zone riding may be considered the best choice for the situation after the cyclist considers the less desirable/less safe alternatives available to him at that time and at that place.

That the know-it-all experts have issued fiats about 5' safety zones carries little weight in the real world of dense urban trafffic.

Exclusively. I've been practicing my bunny hop and am looking forward to the ultimate- hopping a car door.

Riding in a door zone is a "safety issue" just like riding in traffic is a "safety issue", or riding on a bike path is a safety issue, or choosing not to ride at all is a "safety issue."

Making knowledgeable decisions about safety requires evaluating the alternative options/risks. The simplistic rants about the "safety issues" related to door zone fail to consider that the door zone riding may be considered the best choice for the situation after the cyclist considers the less desirable/less safe alternatives available to him at that time and at that place.

That the know-it-all experts have issued fiats about 5' safety zones carries little weight in the real world of dense urban trafffic.
Do you believe a separated bike path alongside a densely-travelled rural, two-lane highway promotes cycling safety? If so, why is a bike lane separated from dense, urban, on-street parking any different?

for those of us that actually ride our bikes.....versus internet safety nannies posting vapid safety 'tips' and endless A&S polls,

sometimes ya do, and sometimes ya don't.
"Those of us who actually ride our bikes...?"

;)

Sigh...

I got doored as a teen. The car owner got out and started screaming at me and threatening to sue me. He demanded my name address and phone, but refused to give me his.

The door of the Ford Galaxy was knocked out of place. Luckily, being a teen, I healed with no major breaks, and the fellow never called.

But I learned my lesson. I've even lectured police officers about opening their doors into oncoming traffic.

Do you believe a separated bike path alongside a densely-travelled rural, two-lane highway promotes cycling safety? If so, why is a bike lane separated from dense, urban, on-street parking any different?

One reason is that parked cars are not overtaking cyclists from behind at 55+mph.

The choice in city cycling is not between riding in a door zone, or riding in a bike lane seperated from all other traffic; but rather riding amongst and in front of congested often fast moving traffic, driven by often frustrated drivers who have very few possibilities of making a safe pass around a lane taking cyclist in dense traffic.

Do I want to? No. Do I have much of an option? Also no. Baltimore drivers being what they are, and the fact that pretty much every street has parking on both sides, there is nowhere else to ride. If I take the lane I will be run over, I have no doubt and while it would be a great demonstration and all that I like my bike and I like riding.

Do you believe a separated bike path alongside a densely-travelled rural, two-lane highway promotes cycling safety? If so, why is a bike lane separated from dense, urban, on-street parking any different?

One reason is that parked cars are not overtaking cyclists from behind at 55+mph.
So you're saying that safety is only important when being overtaken by high-speed motorists, but not when faced with the potential of motorists opening a car door suddenly into our path, maybe even forcing us suddenly into overtaking traffic to avoid it?

Where did you draw the line in deciding when safety is important?

Having been doored just last Friday I'm re-thinking my door zone "doctrine". Like many of you I thought that if I stayed alert, watched for people inside vehicles, looked in rear view mirrors, look for brake lights and didn't bike "too" fast I'ld be ok.

I did not see the SUV park, no brake lights, windows were tinted, could not even tell the vehicle was occupied. The timing was perfect. I don't think he colud have taged me any better had he tried.

With that said I agee with what sbhikes said.
"It's always a balancing act between trying to ride safely and trying to show some courtesy to the poor frustrated people who didn't leave home early enough for whatever the heck they're in such a hurry to get to. "


I've been riding this same route for six years with no accident or even a close call dooring untill last week. But I no longer ride the door zone for those five blocks during that time of day. Mid afternoon and the blocks are lined with small shops, people coming and going all the time.

Having been doored just last Friday I'm re-thinking my door zone "doctrine". Like many of you I thought that if I stayed alert, watched for people inside vehicles, looked in rear view mirrors, look for brake lights and didn't bike "too" fast I'ld be ok.

I did not see the SUV park, no brake lights, windows were tinted, could not even tell the vehicle was occupied. The timing was perfect. I don't think he colud have taged me any better had he tried.

With that said I agee with what sbhikes said.
"It's always a balancing act between trying to ride safely and trying to show some courtesy to the poor frustrated people who didn't leave home early enough for whatever the heck they're in such a hurry to get to. "


I've been riding this same route for six years with no accident or even a close call dooring untill last week. But I no longer ride the door zone for those five blocks during that time of day. Mid afternoon and the blocks are lined with small shops, people coming and going all the time.

All it takes is "once" to make a believer of you.

I had a near miss once... and regularly ride by an area full of parked cars.

I'll put up with honking horns over an open car door any day. It's just too bad motorists have such "a bug in their head" about cyclists when I am staying out of the door zone... AND those motorists have a whole other lane to use... :rolleyes: (the things that give you gray hair... )

So you're saying that safety is only important when being overtaken by high-speed motorists, but not when faced with the potential of motorists opening a car door suddenly into our path, maybe even forcing us suddenly into overtaking traffic to avoid it?

Where did you draw the line in deciding when safety is important?

Making personal decisions and/or policy about "Safety" is about analyzing, evaluating, and comparing the various risks. IMO, most people can figure out the difference between the risk from constant exposure to high speed traffic from cycling slowly in front of it vis-à-vis the hazard presented to a cyclist from an infrequent unobserved door being opened immediatly in front/alongside of him. Obviously some individuals cannot figure out the difference in the relative risks involved.

All it takes is "once" to make a believer of you.

Yep.
A guy opened the door to his Jaguar just as I went by. The edge of the door caught my foot. Bent the door panel and felt like I broke my foot, and it tore my cycling shoes.
A day or two later I went to my orthodpedist for an xray. As I explained the story, he smiled and asked was it a jaguar? Turns out it was his golf buddy.

Yep.
A guy opened the door to his Jaguar just as I went by. The edge of the door caught my foot. Bent the door panel and felt like I broke my foot, and it tore my cycling shoes.
A day or two later I went to my orthodpedist for an xray. As I explained the story, he smiled and asked was it a jaguar? Turns out it was his golf buddy.

That's funny. I will not ride in the door zone. Ever. Now Salt Lake City may not be the dense urban setting some of you ride in, but there is heavy traffic with cars parked on both sides. To make matters worse there are bike lanes all over the place but they are completely in the door zone. I take the lane and put up with pissed off motorists who can't understand why I'm in front of them instead of in the bike lane. I am just not willing to ride in the door zone when there is a perfectly safe place for me to ride even if it means I get honked at. I even had to explain why I refused to ride in the bike lane to a cop once.

Making personal decisions and/or policy about "Safety" is about analyzing, evaluating, and comparing the various risks. IMO, most people can figure out the difference between the risk from constant exposure to high speed traffic from cycling slowly in front of it vis-à-vis the hazard presented to a cyclist from an infrequent unobserved door being opened immediatly in front/alongside of him. Obviously some individuals cannot figure out the difference in the relative risks involved.

Well cycling in front of traffic means you are out there and quite visible to those who are behind you.

Cycling along parked cars means that you are in an area where most motorists fail to even think about looking... down the road behind their parked car.

So you are weighing the risk of being seen while directly in front of a motorist looking straight ahead verses the risk of being seen by a motorist that is not likely to look down the road anyway.

Seems to me the likelihood of being observed by "the looking back motorist" is far lower than that of being observed by "the motorist looking ahead."

Either way you risk crashing into a vehicle... but who is more likely to see and avoid you?

What does it mean that you"have" to ride in the door zone? It seems to be a choice rather than a requirement. The narrowest possible traffic lane is 7 feet wide. If you rode in the center of it, you would be 42 inches from the parked cars. That puts you well outside the door zone, although it doesn't give you the 5 feet that the extremist safety nuts ask for.

As for being in the door zone because you are filtering: filtering is also a choice rather than a requirement. If you're scared of door zones, don't filter. If you think it's safe to filter slowly in the door zone, then go for it.

Just remember that it's your choice. A cyclist is NEVER forced to ride in a door zone.

One reason is that parked cars are not overtaking cyclists from behind at 55+mph.



So if you are on a road with 55+MPH motorists and a door is flung open in your way, where is it liable to push you, or where are you liable to swerve?

So if you are on a road with 55+MPH motorists and a door is flung open in your way, where is it liable to push you, or where are you liable to swerve?

Right into the side of the meteorite that landed at the same time.

Right into the side of the meteorite that landed at the same time.

So you give opening car doors the same odds as being hit by a meteorite.

Come spend some time in my 'hood and you might even win the lottery. :D

Opening car doors, as well as motorists suddenly leaving parking spaces, are regular events around here, as are tinted windows on even the cheapest little POS poser car.

So if you are on a road with 55+MPH motorists and a door is flung open in your way, where is it liable to push you, or where are you liable to swerve?

Last time I checked, getting doored involves slamming into the door, not having a discussion with it as to where you're going to go instead of hitting it. It sounds like you're more statistically going to hit it, then swerve it.

I wouldn't be riding in a lane with 55+mph motorists, I WOULD get clipped by someone cutting me off, swerving into my lane, or just someone not paying attention. 55mph is an EXTREMELY high speed to be taking a lane in. Again, the game of numbers tells me that hitting a brick wall at 15-20 mph would be safer. :p I'd rather take another route if it had road side parking and no wide shoulder... and probably take it up with the traffic commission. (If it was accessible to bikes anyway)


Good thing 55mph roads here usually have like 5-10 feet of shoulder. And no parking except for emergencies. Probably because someone paid more than you thought this one through.