On Pardon The Interuption today both of the hosts said "cycling is a fringe sport" and the Landi story just proves why no one is interested in the Tour De France. I couldnt believe they called it a "fringe sport". I have no opinion on Landis and his guilt or innocence but I love cycling and I am worried about how this affects the younger American population and their interest in cycling. Then to top it off you have main stream media saying this is proof that cycling SHOULD be a "fringe sport".
Everyday I turn on the tv and see "main stream" sports stars being arrested for rape, murder, animal cruelty, tax evasion, robbery, gun charges and other crimes and yet the media here praises them.
I have no explination why , I am just dismayed. I really hope to see cycling stay strong in America and I think its important for the sport to get positive coverage for the younger generations. Landis didnt help that cause but the mainstream media sure isnt either.
btw - the tour de france wasnt televised in my area but poker was on two different channels :(
freemti
09-20-07, 06:40 PM
Landis?
jaxgtr
09-20-07, 07:07 PM
ESPN used to be a good channel, but have become a joke. A lot of athletes do crap just to be on sports center and bring attention to themselves, not to mention the attention the talking heads think they deserve. The only time I watch it now is if I can find a game on the radio and watch it with the sound off.
G-Whacker
09-20-07, 07:11 PM
ESPN used to be a good channel, but have become a joke.
Amen!
Sunflower, don't worry too much about cycling the sport. There's a whole generation of kids that had LA as an influence coming up, and they'll bring the sport to new heights in the U.S.
Bobatin
09-21-07, 05:53 AM
LOL
poker = sport
Cycling = fringe sport
msu2001la
09-21-07, 06:27 AM
NASCAR! Real athletes drive cars around in circles for hours.
This whole cycling thing is never going to catch on.
mparker326
09-21-07, 07:29 AM
PTI is a terrible show. Those guys like to say things like that to piss people off.
hos13
09-21-07, 11:09 AM
ESPN is geared around the big 3 in North America sports, thus they hire based on that. It just kills me when they try to cover anything else, such as nascar, cycling and so forth. Please don't have football writers and players report on anything other then football.
The PTI hosts are really good sports writers, but the show is about shock and no substance.
starvingdavid
09-21-07, 11:15 AM
On Pardon The Interuption today both of the hosts said "cycling is a fringe sport" and the Landi story just proves why no one is interested in the Tour De France. I couldnt believe they called it a "fringe sport". I have no opinion on Landis and his guilt or innocence but I love cycling and I am worried about how this affects the younger American population and their interest in cycling. Then to top it off you have main stream media saying this is proof that cycling SHOULD be a "fringe sport".
Okay, I didn't see PTI, nor do I think PTI or ESPN is a good source of sporting news (deadspin!). That being said, the PTI statement that cycling is a fringe sport because no one is really interested in the judgment is a valid argument.
Think about it this way; if the Indianapolis Colts had to turn over their rings to the Chicago Bears because Payton was caught doping, or the Colts were caught stealing signals this would be HUGE national news. Everyone would be talking about it, it would move out of the realm of sports reporting and move into the national cycle. Someone in Congress would likely propose some stupid legislation. The point is the ENTIRE nation would be watching.
In this case, I noticed that the Landis story occupied Yahoo's front page for the afternoon, but was gone by the evening. It is not on the front page of the NY Times or LA Times online sites, and is only mentioned below the scroll on the SD Union Tribune.
I think it's safe to say that cycling is a fringe sport. That being said, this whole thing smacks of McCarthyism to me.
timmhaan
09-21-07, 11:19 AM
cycling is a fringe sport according to the mainstream media. that's pretty much a fact that we're going to have to deal with.
i liken the mainstream media to a big dumb kid that got held back a few years in school and bullies everyone on the playground to make himself feel better. mainstream media is little more than a troll...hungry for ratings and controversy. and what do we do about trolls? we stop feeding them.
Midnight Cyril
09-21-07, 12:14 PM
I'm pretty sure the least of cycling's worries is being dissed by TK Stackmoney from DCtown. Moreso a guest host if Mr. Tony wasn't in that night.
Good lord, sometimes we sound like soccer fans -- not that being whiny is bad or anything. When I'm not whining about how little respect cycling gets, I dig that it's a fringe sport. Sort of like watching curling in the Olympics and knowing what's going on. I'm in on a cool secret. A cool, elitist secret. Woo hoo!
Yeah, and ESPN has always been a little spotty around the edges (and sometimes in the middle).
SunFlower
09-21-07, 04:53 PM
the mainstream media is very good at presenting a view held by 10% of the population as "common" and "regular". cycling is NOT a fringe sport as evidence of the number of cyclists in america.
as matter of principal though, why is poker on ESPN ? last i heard being drunk, smoking, wearing stupid sunglasses indoors, and sitting on your ass for hours while you gamble away money that could be spent on something productive WASNT a sport. maybe ESPN has gone the way of mtv and doesnt air what their name says anymore.
Portis
09-21-07, 05:05 PM
I too am very concerned. What would happen if cycling was no longer a mainstream sport ?
caloso
09-21-07, 05:10 PM
I saw it. I'm a cyclist and a PTI fan. Don't be so thin-skinned. We're right up there with curling and lacrosse in the national sports psyche.
CyLowe97
09-21-07, 05:14 PM
I pretty much believe whatever Stuart Scott's googly-eye tells me to believe.
hunyak
09-21-07, 07:55 PM
NASCAR! Real athletes drive cars around in circles for hours.
This whole cycling thing is never going to catch on.
Actually, Nascar and Cycling have something in common: Neither is a stick & ball sport so neither are considered "Sports" and neither are covered much by ESPN
julian
09-22-07, 01:20 PM
It is a fringe sport in the US, regardless of how many people participate in it for recreation or pure transportation. Until the 1930's it was a huge sport in this country, but it has been replaced.
Running is a fringe sport too as is walking as is swimming and more people participate in those than football, baseball and basketball combined.
So what is wrong with being a fringe sport? Does that make it less enjoyable to participate in or watch or follow? In my opinion there isn't a major sport around that money hasn't screwed up.
My daughter runs cross country and I help coach it. Trust me it is a much better experience than football is. Less pressure, much more camraderie, and a sport that you can keep at for most of your life. Not only is it a team sport but individuals on a weak team can still shine. Spectators are few but the kids from all teams support everyone. For the most part you get out of it what you put into it as long as your are of average ability, much like cycling. With our cyckling group it pretty much is the person who puts in the time who is at the front of the pack.
howsteepisit
09-25-07, 05:21 PM
+1 to julian. Cycling is, and has been for a great many years nothing but a fringe sport in the US. Acting insulted and whining about it being called a fringe sport doesn't change that fact. What percentage of the US population gives a rats behind about cycling? Hell, what percentage of the US population believes bicycles are anything more than a kids toy? When I started cycling in 1972 it was considered a hippie-fringe thing. Now, we have no hippies so its just a fringe thing. And BTW the NASCAR Drives run at extremely high heart rates, so anymore it behoves them to be pretty fit, just not cycling fit
bpohl
09-25-07, 07:44 PM
I couldn't care less if cycling is a "fringe sport." NASCAR and poker are certainly mainstream, and I think you have to be an absolute moron to call those activities "sports".
sykerocker
09-25-07, 08:37 PM
So cycling is a fringe sport. So what?
I can remember back 40 years to my father who absolutely despaired because his son and namesake was absolutely pathetic at (take a deep breath) baseball, football, basketball, wrestling, golf, and tennis (the mainstream stuff at my high school). Completely disinterested in hunting and fishing. In fact his kid was an underweight, completely out of shape little twerp who didn't do well in classes, either.
Then said kid went to college. Discovered cycling, fencing, soccer and rugby (this is back in the late 60's). Turned into one heck of an amateur athlete, although completely in sports that dad couldn't understand in the slightest. Fringe sports, you know. Got into real good shape, which he still is 40 years later.
Sports is sports. What fringe is America is huge in Belgium. And visa-versa. What does it matter?
Oh yeah, NASCAR is NOT a sport because they don't race in the rain. Formula 1, MotoGP, World Superbike, bicycle racing all pound on ahead no matter what the weather. NASCAR parks it's fake stock cars. NASCAR is motorsports answer to the World Wrestling Federation.
julian
09-26-07, 09:25 AM
I couldn't care less if cycling is a "fringe sport." NASCAR and poker are certainly mainstream, and I think you have to be an absolute moron to call those activities "sports".
Dude! You are my hero! What a turn around. People like you have much more respect from me than those doping whining pro cyclists.
velonomad
09-26-07, 08:19 PM
I'm glad we are fringe! With Landis on the skids maybe we can become obscure again, Too may fat people are walking around in US Postal/Discovery jerseys as it is
Hambone
10-01-07, 09:52 AM
I'm glad we are fringe! With Landis on the skids maybe we can become obscure again, Too may fat people are walking around in US Postal/Discovery jerseys as it isI'm a big fat cyclist.
I put in 3-4,000 miles/year.
Why the hate?
skanking biker
10-01-07, 04:53 PM
I'm not fat.
Just big-boned
JungleCat
10-01-07, 07:05 PM
Competitive cycling is fringe. Football is a better spectator sport. And for those of you that don't get it, PTI is mostly satire. Who cares? Just ride.
enjoi
10-28-07, 08:46 PM
the us is not a very good benchmark on what is a fringe sport.
football- almost only in the US
soccer- huge everywhere but the US
baseball- Mostly in the us (does the world series have any other country in it?)
cycling- really big in europe
ect.
Walter
10-29-07, 07:27 PM
baseball- Mostly in the us (does the world series have any other country in it?)
Canada; the Blue Jays have won it a few times. Also, baseball is very popular in S. America and Japan, just look at MLB rosters.
Not claiming it's a "World Series", just answering your question.
Was going to say that there's nada wrong with being on the fringe but that's been well stated a few times now.
:beer:
thedips
10-30-07, 01:53 AM
LOL
poker = sport
Cycling = fringe sport
why was i thinking the exact same thing.... i love watching poker.. but damnn.. where the hell is the cycling... a real sport.. sheesh atleast put it on espn 2 or something damnn
bbattle
10-31-07, 09:00 PM
ESPN is geared around the big 3 in North America sports, thus they hire based on that. It just kills me when they try to cover anything else, such as nascar, cycling and so forth. Please don't have football writers and players report on anything other then football.
The PTI hosts are really good sports writers, but the show is about shock and no substance.
I've got some videos of mid-80's Paris-Roubaix that CBS covered. Guess who the announcer was?
John Tesh. Yeah, that guy.
I'm sure he felt just as uncomfortable doing it as I did watching it.
PhilThee
11-03-07, 08:19 PM
I couldn't care less if cycling is a "fringe sport." NASCAR and poker are certainly mainstream, and I think you have to be an absolute moron to call those activities "sports".
It seems there are a few people who don't quite understand the mental and physical conditioning it takes to actually do it.
Do you realize that it's sometimes 140 degrees in that interior?
Don't forget they are also wearing fire retardant long johns and full length suits.
Don't think that there is a lot of air being blown inside the car either because there isn't.That's unwanted drag that will slow the car down as well as decreasing the down force that makes the cars handle as well as they do.
The shape and angles of the cars body are directing air over and away from the window area at speed.
Now think of doing it for 4 hrs. when the interior is 140 degrees with almost no air being blown inside the car and heat from the engine is toasting your feet.And yes they sometimes do get blistered feet and backs from the extreme heat.
If you want to make a generalization about sport's the same thing can be thought of cycling...
Oh yea now there's a sport...Ride a bike around for a couple Hrs :rolleyes: Pffft
I can even see how they consider golf a sport, poker on the otherhand...
Herman47
11-05-07, 08:35 AM
"It seems there are a few people who don't quite understand the mental and physical conditioning it takes to actually do it.
Do you realize that it's sometimes 140 degrees in that interior?" -- PhilThee
So if I jack up the thermostat to 140 degrees and sat on my ass for a few hours, would I be engaging in sport? Should they have an olympic event for sauna competition????
"Oh yea now there's a sport...Ride a bike around for a couple Hrs Pffft" -- PhilThee
Lance Armstrong can complete a marathon in under three hours. Is any NASCAR driver able to do that, any at all????
edzo
11-05-07, 08:42 AM
beer advertising and boner pills
are what dictates what the big usa network shows think are sports
cycling is above all that. it is more civil, and damn harder to do.
DI75
11-06-07, 01:07 AM
I ride for myself, enjoy PTI for the entertainment value and enjoy watching football and could care less what is and isn't a fringe sport.:):)
Six jours
11-11-07, 11:10 AM
20 years ago, cycling was definitely a fringe sport in the U.S. IMO, it was also much more enjoyable, because participants tended to be A) commited, and B) individualistic, ie. not given over to mindless faddishness. Now that Lance & Co. have popularized the sport here, the average "sport" cyclist hasn't the slightest clue about bike-handling skills or road manners and seems concerned primarily with how much his bike costs and whether his shoes match his outfit.
So I guess you could say that I'm not exactly worried about Landis having a negative effect on the sport in America. I'd be perfectly happy if the "outdoor spin class" folks moved on to the next fad. Ha.
Six jours
11-11-07, 11:21 AM
I've got some videos of mid-80's Paris-Roubaix that CBS covered. Guess who the announcer was? John Tesh. Yeah, that guy.
I'm sure he felt just as uncomfortable doing it as I did watching it.
I kind of like John Tesch. I even grooved to his whacky TdF soundtrack tape. :lol:
What I really remember was that nasal-voiced idiot Sam Posey who had zero clue about bicycle racing. Not to mention cutting away from the action for wine tasting with Pierre Salinger.
jotog
11-15-07, 12:16 AM
If we were in almost any other country, cycling would be a way of life and then maybe a sport...if you overslept and have to drop the kids off on the way.
just sayin'
Jakedatc
11-18-07, 12:01 PM
"It seems there are a few people who don't quite understand the mental and physical conditioning it takes to actually do it.
Do you realize that it's sometimes 140 degrees in that interior?" -- PhilThee
So if I jack up the thermostat to 140 degrees and sat on my ass for a few hours, would I be engaging in sport? Should they have an olympic event for sauna competition????
"Oh yea now there's a sport...Ride a bike around for a couple Hrs Pffft" -- PhilThee
Lance Armstrong can complete a marathon in under three hours. Is any NASCAR driver able to do that, any at all????
The physical part is not just dealing with the heat... the guy who posted earlier kinda short changed the drivers quite a bit. They are pulling 3 G's around each corner at 190mph. Just holding the wheel on the line that you want to run and that the car may not be balanced correctly is difficult. Most of the drivers have some serious conditioning programs in the off season and i'm sure something in season to maintain that. They also have one of the longest seasons in sports.. and "play" 3-4 days in a row between practice, qualifying, races, testing etc Feb to Nov.
"ROBERT CANTU, DR.: Many of the races are run in heat and humidities. And the cars themselves are extremely hot. So you're essentially trying to function at a very high level of concentration in a sauna, being depleted of body fluids and electrolytes.
So first of all, the individual needs to be very fit." google Dr. Cantu.. his resume is majorly impressive (actually got to meet him last year at a brain injury conference)
"g. It's the same as going on a long run or a bicycle ride or something like that. It's hardcore. GUPTA: How hardcore? Well, a study found race car drivers on an oval track like NASCAR's sustained heart rates of 120 to 150 beats per minute, about the same level as a serious marathon runner for about the same length of time."
but yea... it's just driving a car right... :eyeroll:
yadroff
12-04-07, 01:14 PM
I love cycling. Fringe, whatevs. As far as Nascar goes, to add to what some folks have mentioned, when a driver is sitting in a sauna, pulling 3G's around a turn going 190 mph, s/he has to do it with one hand at times for downshifting into a turn and upshifting back out to a straight. as long as I get to tivo the spring classics and watch the tour, I don't much care for ESPN to have anything to do with it. It would be cool if there was a cycling channel, like the FSC. Track, Keirin, Cyclocross, Road, there's always plenty of material...
bloko
12-07-07, 05:06 AM
I dont know about the rest of you but i barely ever get any tv in. Just to much better **** to do.
drmarthacastro
12-10-07, 11:51 PM
The physical part is not just dealing with the heat... the guy who posted earlier kinda short changed the drivers quite a bit. They are pulling 3 G's around each corner at 190mph. Just holding the wheel on the line that you want to run and that the car may not be balanced correctly is difficult. Most of the drivers have some serious conditioning programs in the off season and i'm sure something in season to maintain that. They also have one of the longest seasons in sports.. and "play" 3-4 days in a row between practice, qualifying, races, testing etc Feb to Nov.
"ROBERT CANTU, DR.: Many of the races are run in heat and humidities. And the cars themselves are extremely hot. So you're essentially trying to function at a very high level of concentration in a sauna, being depleted of body fluids and electrolytes.
So first of all, the individual needs to be very fit." google Dr. Cantu.. his resume is majorly impressive (actually got to meet him last year at a brain injury conference)
"g. It's the same as going on a long run or a bicycle ride or something like that. It's hardcore. GUPTA: How hardcore? Well, a study found race car drivers on an oval track like NASCAR's sustained heart rates of 120 to 150 beats per minute, about the same level as a serious marathon runner for about the same length of time."
but yea... it's just driving a car right... :eyeroll:
If you think that NASCAR is a better sport than cycling :rolleyes: please, why dont' you go to the NASCAR forums instead of hanging around with us, awesome cyclists?
You know, I love cycling and I'm not going to let you put it down without you providing me of good scientific medical proof that driving a car for few minutes is going to give you better toned muscles and an excellent heart condition than cycling.
Before we give opinions we should do some research, especially if we are not experts. Here, in this forum, the majority are cycling fanatics and know very much of the physical benefits we get from cycling.
cooleyjb
12-11-07, 10:48 AM
If you think that NASCAR is a better sport than cycling :rolleyes: please, why dont' you go to the NASCAR forums instead of hanging around with us, awesome cyclists?
You know, I love cycling and I'm not going to let you put it down without you providing me of good scientific medical proof that driving a car for few minutes is going to give you better toned muscles and an excellent heart condition than cycling.
Before we give opinions we should do some research, especially if we are not experts. Here, in this forum, the majority are cycling fanatics and know very much of the physical benefits we get from cycling.
I don't see anywhere in his post that says NASCAR is better than cycling. I also don't see where he is putting down cycling. What he is doing is teaching you about what actually happens in NASCAR and other motorsports. I doubt he thinks that there are minimal physical benefits from cycling.
What he is doing is showing you that it takes more than just turning the wheel to survive in NASCAR. He is telling you that the top drivers are in hardcore strength and conditioning programs.
I happen to do both cycling and road racing(in cars). They are different for sure. But don't write off car racing as something that is easy to do and takes no athletic skill or stamina. After a 40 minute sprint race there have been times where I am sweating and dog tired from how much concentration and work I was going through. Same thing can be said after I go for a good hard ride too. They are different for sure, but only a naive person who has limited knowledge would discount one over the other.
drmarthacastro
12-12-07, 01:23 AM
I don't see anywhere in his post that says NASCAR is better than cycling. I also don't see where he is putting down cycling. What he is doing is teaching you about what actually happens in NASCAR and other motorsports. I doubt he thinks that there are minimal physical benefits from cycling.
What he is doing is showing you that it takes more than just turning the wheel to survive in NASCAR. He is telling you that the top drivers are in hardcore strength and conditioning programs.
I happen to do both cycling and road racing(in cars). They are different for sure. But don't write off car racing as something that is easy to do and takes no athletic skill or stamina. After a 40 minute sprint race there have been times where I am sweating and dog tired from how much concentration and work I was going through. Same thing can be said after I go for a good hard ride too. They are different for sure, but only a naive person who has limited knowledge would discount one over the other.
Well, thank you very much for educating me today on this issue. Now I understand what you guys are coming from and I definitely changed my mind about it. I appreciate you took the time to explain this to me. Now I will appreciate also a NASCAR race. ;)
bcart1991
12-12-07, 01:10 PM
Well, thank you very much for educating me today on this issue. Now I understand what you guys are coming from and I definitely changed my mind about it. I appreciate you took the time to explain this to me. Now I will appreciate also a NASCAR race. ;)
You should still hate NASCAR for the fan-based, illogical-points-based-scoring-system, circus that it is.
Just respect the drivers for being able to do what they do.
Porter20
12-12-07, 10:25 PM
From someone who is a big fan of both sports & involved in both sports; I can tell you both sports are physically and mentally demanding. I am not going to pretend that NASCAR Drivers go through the rigors that a professional cyclists does. I know that it is challenging for a NASCAR driver to do a 4-5 hour race with the stress, the Gs & sucking down the CO2. I do know the weekly workout programs of several drivers & have seen the pure exhaustion following races especially during the summer. I also know that it is hugely physically demanding of a cyclists that is running a 140 miles ride today & gets to do it again tomorrow.
However, NASCAR has a huge following in America because they have a lot of venues in America. You can count the number of major cycling races in America on one hand. We don't even have a united race that is our BIG race of the country, that includes a lot of stages and all the American riders who come out and compete for it. I think the Tour DuPont was headed that direction (like 15 years ago), but I mean we have the Tour de Georgia, Tour de Missouri & Tour de California, but there is no national race equal to the Tour de France (duh) or even the Gio de Iltalia. I really think Lance was huge for growing this sport in America and definitely brought attention to it, but it's short term until we can build an event that is bigger than the athletes.
Also, I don't feel attacking NASCAR is going to make the Cycling any stronger.