Classic & Vintage - 72 Peugeot PX-10, a tragedy to upgrade?

I recently bought a Peugeot at a thrift store, and after doing a little research I realized that it might be a mistake to upgrade it. I want a bike I can ride on the weekends, and didn't want to get a new one, which is how I found the bike. I'm pretty sure it's a PX-10.

This bike is in great shape. There are a few chips in the paint, but it has most of it's original decals and is very clean. However, it doesn't appear to have been used much in the past five or ten years, and the cables are gummy.

I wanted to upgrad it a little to make it better for riding, but I started doing a little research, and realized that maybe I should think before I started to modify it. From what I've been able to find, it's nearly all original.

Here's what it's got:
Simplex super competition derailleurs,
Stronglight crank
Lyotardi peddles
Suntour Winner Pro cassette
Shimano hubs
Mafac Racer breaks

The serial number is 2,535,634 which I gather means is been made in the '70s. The derailleur is imprinted with "'72," which one post I found said might indicate the year. So, I'm assuming it was made in 1972. That fits with the serial numbering. As I said, everything looks original to me, including the sticky cables.

It looks almost exactly like this bike: http://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/03bicycles/peugeotX10.html, except that the saddle is different (all I can make out is the word "Look" on the side), and the quick release levers are silver, not black. I'm assuming that's because it's an earlier model.

Are there lots of these bikes around? Or would I be committing a sin against bike history by tinkering with it? It's a great bike, and lots of fun to ride.

Thanks!

Normandy hubs were standards on Peugeots, so at very least the hubs have been replaced. It's also possible the frame has been respaced, if it's a 72, the rear spacing was probably originally 120mm and may now be 126 or (gasp!) 130. Measure it with calipers. Are you sure it's a 72? Look for the Reynolds 531 sticker; if it's on the downtube, the bike is post 1974, if it's on the seat tube, it's likely pre-74. If it's not Reynolds 531 double-butted, it's either not a PX10 at all or a later variant of the PX10. Chromed rear dropouts were common until (I think) 1978 or 9 on the PX10 model. More info can be obtained here:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/PX10_history.htm

If it is a PX10, I'd overhaul it, replacing all bearings and grease, give it fresh cables and pads. Then I'd ride it. What you've got is a hand built, brazed frame made to exacting standards. A very fine bike. Except for the hubs and cassette (sure it isn't a freewheel?) it sounds standard for a PX of the period.

If it has a diagonally-printed Reynolds 531 decal and half-chromed stays, it is a PX-10. If it has a horizontally-printed 531 decal ("3 tubes renforces") and painted stays, it is a PR-10 or PKN-10.

If you replace any components, definitely save the old ones!

If it is a PR/PKN-10, it is not particularly collectible. I have upgraded mine mercilessly, because I prefer Japanese derailleurs over the original Simplex, although I do like the Peugeot frame. Among collectors, there is a PX-10 mystique, which resulted in a $7K+ (!) eBay sale of an early 1960s PX-10 to a Japanese collector. If you want to ride the bike regularly, I see no problem with upgrading to an ultra-6 freewheel.

Your wheelset is definitely non-original, so don't hesitate to replace it, if you wish to. The original wheelset for an early 1970s PX-10 would have had Normandy high-flange hubs, a 14-15-17-19-21 Atom freewheel, and tubular tyres. Many customers ordered their PX-10s with clinchers and a wider-range freewheel. The original 45T inner chainring was often replaced with a 40 or even a 38.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm virtually positive it's a PX-10. It has the chromed stays and the decal features of a PX-10. I thought that I read that some of the PX-10s came with Shimano hubs, but now I can't find the site where I read that. It wasn't on the Classic Rendezvous page.

I will grease it and change out the cables and keep all the old parts. I took apart the rear derailleur and felt how heavy parts are. Even the chain looks huge and clunky.

I rode it this last weekend for the first time, a 60 mile jaunt into the mounains above town (I live in New Mexico), and I sure fell in love with it. With new cables and pads, it will be even better.

Thanks again for your advice.

No, Peugeots didn't come with Shimano components back then. A real PX-10 would have either Campy or Huret (older) derailleurs, and likely either Campy or Atom freewheels. Also, the lugs on the frame would be the fancy Nervex lugs, not the plain lugs common on most Peugeots.
Post a few pics-we'll tell you whether you have one or not.

Thanks. I've posted some photos of the bike on my home page:

http://www.vla.com/josh/bike/bike.html

The paint around the serial number looks a little more banged up in the photo than my memory made it!:D I guess that's one of the hazards of getting excited about something.

You're right, it's probably a 72. That model had plain nervex lugs and the reynolds sticker on the seat-tube, simplex ders, stronglight crank, and mafac racer brakes. For some reason the '73 reverted to the fancier Nervex lugs. Very definitely a PX10. Again, your wheelset, and possibly your chain, are later additions. Nice find.

Here's some helpful info on the older French bikes:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html
Have fun.

The large freewheel and pieplate are definitely not original, but most PX-10 (and even PA-10 and PR-10) owners found the stock low gear of 45/21 a bit stiff.

Yes-those wheels are certainly not original-a real PX-10 would've come with tubulars. The freewheel isn't original, either-too much range for a sport bike of the era.

Too much range? I'm afraid that the original would have been too tough for me to push, too, in that case, so I should probably be grateful it's been changed out. I've been panting like crazy on the hills as it is.

Thanks for all the commentary on the bike, by the way. It's really wonderful to hear this much about the PX-10!

I too, would like to refurbish an old Px10E . It is mostly original except for the rims, hubs, etc. It has some of the chrome with rust. I would like to do this right . I have looked at the Classic bike renovation information. Is there a decal set available or misc. parts. Any ifo will be appreciated.

My '73 PX-10 had Simplex derailleurs. Did they change that much in one year???

No. Almost all early PX10s, certainly all the 70's models thru at least the early eighties, had simplex ders. Most Peugeots have simplex dropouts, which need to be modified to accept Campy and Shimano derailleurs. You have to tap them out to the proper threading and apply a file to the bottom of the dropout...px10's did not have Campy derailleurs as standard equipment.

The tap needed is 10mm x 1.0 and is readily available. It just cleans the threads a little and allows use of any current standard derailleur. If anyone is interested I have a number of Lyotard Berthet platform pedals that I stocked up on till I realized the pedals would probably never wear out. I have both Fr and English threaded versions as I used them on all my bikes in the '70s.

The Normandy hubs were pretty gritty on my PX 10. An early refurb, when one of the axles broke (!) was to buy some Campy axles and cones, they were a drop in replacement and much much smoother. Steve

well guys i got to aks you about the bike i bougth today in the afternoon.well the bike is a 14 speed peugeot italia touring rad bike with carbon frame and fork and i cant find the ifo about this brand?I got the bike used in a thrift store for $ 9.99 but since today thursday was half price i got the bike for $ 5.25 after taxes.The bike is in very good shape the paint is in excellent conditions but the only minor problem was that had a flat tire.

Do you guys think i got a road bike in almost excellent conditions for $ 5 bucks? can you tell me where can i find ifo about this bike??

from Atlanta

Hi Steve, since you mention that you have stocked up on the Lyotard Marcel Berthet platform pedals I am guessing that you must be willing to sell a pair. I am definitely interested in an English threaded pair. Let me know, john

how is it the skin on his belly isn't green and decomposed like his face?

My 1972 PX-10 I bought brand new in July of 1972. The only original parts are the crank arms and the chain wheels. It's mostly Campy components that I installed 20 years ago. I just installed a new Phil Wood bottom bracket and Look Keo carbon/titanium pedals.

Does Cycle Arts in California have access to all the original decals and white paint to restore my frame?
Would that be the best place to get it done, or should I just have a local shop whose pretty good touch up the chips?

Thanks!
MJ

Does Cycle Arts in California have access to all the original decals and white paint to restore my frame?
Would that be the best place to get it done, or should I just have a local shop whose pretty good touch up the chips?

Thanks!
MJ

I got a set of complete repro decal set including the reynolds 531 for my '72 PX-10 from Velographics. Nice stuff and highly recomended.

This thread is almost four years old. There is some good information and some that is completely wrong.

I bought a double set of PX10 decals from The Yellow Jersey. I sold one, so it came out to less that reproductions cost. There was no waiting for them to be made, either.

My 1972 PX-10 I bought brand new in July of 1972. The only original parts are the crank arms and the chain wheels. It's mostly Campy components that I installed 20 years ago. I just installed a new Phil Wood bottom bracket and Look Keo carbon/titanium pedals.

Does Cycle Arts in California have access to all the original decals and white paint to restore my frame?
Would that be the best place to get it done, or should I just have a local shop whose pretty good touch up the chips?

Thanks!
MJ

There is also a person on ebay from Australia who specializes in selling different decals, including the french language Reynolds 531 transfers. Look for him under his ebay name Cyclomondo.

Well, I too purchased a new PX-10 in the spring 1972. It’s still one of the best frames I’ve ridden. I did a major re-build in the early 1990’s and it how has indexed down tube Ultirga shifters and changers. I had a frame shop spread the rear end to 130mm (absolute max), add the shifter bosses and reface and align the bottom bracket. It now has a 12-21 7-speed rear-end and 39-52 Campy crank. The brakes are Dia-Comp with the cables under the bar tape. I painted it candy apple blue with white lugs and put my name on the top tube. It’s a real retro-rod now. I put clincher wheels on it a couple of years ago but this winter I’m going back to the original Super Champion wheels, Normandy high flange hubs and sew-ups. I just like the way they ride with this frame.

I recently purchased a new Schwinn with middle of the road components. The frame is Aluminum with carbon fiber seat stays and fork. I like the new tech stuff a lot but the PX-10 still rides better in many respects. The PX-10 is also about the same weight as the Schwinn

BTW I'm pusshing 60.

Well, I too purchased a new PX-10 in the spring 1972....

I'd like to see your bike. Can you post some pics?

No. Almost all early PX10s, certainly all the 70's models thru at least the early eighties, had simplex ders. Most Peugeots have simplex dropouts, which need to be modified to accept Campy and Shimano derailleurs. You have to tap them out to the proper threading and apply a file to the bottom of the dropout...px10's did not have Campy derailleurs as standard equipment.

This indicates a significant problem in upgrading this frame - PX-10s were made with French sizings and threadings, and it's not generally trivial to revise them to more common English, Italian, or ISO standard threadings.

I have a 1968 model in boxes, and my approach to modernizing it will be limited to cleaning, greasing, and tuning up. We'll see if I'll need to revise the gearing to accommodate my distinctly non-racy riding - I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

This indicates a significant problem in upgrading this frame - PX-10s were made with French sizings and threadings, and it's not generally trivial to revise them to more common English, Italian, or ISO standard threadings.

I have a 1968 model in boxes, and my approach to modernizing it will be limited to cleaning, greasing, and tuning up. We'll see if I'll need to revise the gearing to accommodate my distinctly non-racy riding - I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Although you are correct in regards to headsets and bottom brackets, the fix for the rear derailleur hanger is rather common and easy. There are no threads at all on most Simplex DOs, at least until about 1979 or so.

How'd this five year old thread get ressurected all zombie like? (Back then, BTW, it was easier to find the stuff needed to upgrade French Bottom brackets and HS... no more, alas).

I don't think it woulsd be a traGEDY To upgrade, I UPGRAded mine with Campy NR DERAILERS< brakes, and other stuff many yeear ago, when I was a very active rider.

Biggest sore spot is probably the tubular tires, the days of good $8 tubulars are long gone, many of the cheap tubulars now are dangerous (seperating base tapes). I assume it has tubulars (SEW -ups).

THe simplex drerailers were not very well thought of, at the time, the MArfac "racer " brakes are very powerful (and noisy). THe stronglight crank was about the best made then.

this thread is 6 years old.

old thread ha

old thread ha

This thread, started in 2003, has been revived in 2005, 2007, 2008, and 2009. It has lots and lots of grave dirt on its' fingernails...