Foo - Anybody here know about pneumatics?

I'm outfitting a bicycle with an air horn and I have a few questions. I will be using a semi truck horn which needs about 100 psi to operate. I saw a similar set up that used an approximately 1 gallon CO2 tank was filled to about 150 psi with regular old compressed air. The guy said he could get three blasts out of it. Here are my questions:

Where can I get a cable actuated valve? I will be using a brake lever to honk it.

Is it possible/practical to use multiple tanks? I would like to use a pair of 10 oz paintball canisters and one 20 oz. How well do you think this system would work filled to aprox 150 psi? Would they be enough?

If the above doesn't work, would it be possible to use CO2? I'm wondering how well it would work to use one 20 oz filled to 2000 psi or whatever they're rated for.

Am I gonna asplode?

PS: don't suggest an air zound. I want a big ass semi truck air horn and anything less will be unsatisfactory. :D

W.E. :rolleyes:

I'm quite happy with my airzound. Good luck Chuck. :D

:eek:

W.E. :rolleyes:

I'm quite happy with my airzound. Good luck Chuck. :D

Yeah, I'll probably get one of those at some point too, but for this application if it's not 2 1/2 feet long I don't wanna hear about it. :D


:eek:

:eek: indeed.

Is it for a tallbike?

Is it for a tallbike?

You'll just have to wait and see. :)

Is it for a tallbike?

Horsesecks! :eek:

Why just have loud when you can have loudest, right?

I'm outfitting a bicycle with an air horn and I have a few questions. I will be using a semi truck horn which needs about 100 psi to operate. I saw a similar set up that used an approximately 1 gallon CO2 tank was filled to about 150 psi. The guy said he could get three blasts out of it. Here are my questions:

Where can I get a cable actuated valve? I will be using a brake lever to honk it.

Is it possible/practical to use multiple tanks? I would like to use a pair of 10 oz paintball canisters and one 20 oz. How well do you think this system would work filled to aprox 150 psi? Would they be enough?

If the above doesn't work, would it be possible to use CO2? I'm wondering how well it would work to use one 20 oz filled to 2000 psi or whatever they're rated for.

Am I gonna asplode?

PS: don't suggest an air zound. I want a big ass semi truck air horn and anything less will be unsatisfactory. :D
ahh what you want to do mate is get your hands on a nitro tank problem with C02 its not very coaperative with weather conditions 3000PSI should hold you out plenty and its less problematic.
a lanyard valve is what you should look for its the only thing i can think of that would work and for god sakes get a really good regulator a paintball one even though theyre pricy they can deal with the psi better and its smaller.

Cable actuated valves are available at any Kenworth or Freightliner dealer.

Cable actuated valves are available at any Kenworth or Freightliner dealer.

lanyards

ahh what you want to do mate is get your hands on a nitro tank problem with C02 its not very coaperative with weather conditions 3000PSI should hold you out plenty and its less problematic.
a lanyard valve is what you should look for its the only thing i can think of that would work and for god sakes get a really good regulator a paintball one even though theyre pricy they can deal with the psi better and its smaller.

Cool, thanks for the tip on the paintball regulator. I figured a lot of the stuff for this project would end up being paintball stuff ($$$ :mad:). Tell me more about the problems with co2... Isn't nitrous oxide more expensive?

The regulators that come with the tanks I've been seeing are 800 psi which I'm guessing will be too much. Are there any nitrous tanks that don't come with a regulator or come with a lower pressure/adjustable regulator?

this sounds stupidly heavy compared to an airzound

this sounds stupidly heavy compared to an airzound

This ain't for the TDF. It's going on a 40lb bike so I'm really not worried about it.

Cool, thanks for the tip on the paintball regulator. I figured a lot of the stuff for this project would end up being paintball stuff ($$$ :mad:). Tell me more about the problems with co2... Isn't nitrous oxide more expensive?

youre gonna have to its a lot lighter and more compact, i got most of my stuff off paintball forums for far less than what they sell for new the only thing i bought new was the tank. Co2 puts more strain in the parts and when the weather is cold it tends to liquify and freeze up the valve or possibly ruin the diaphram on the horns. Nitrogen not really for 3000 psi worth its like 6 bucks around here

this sounds stupidly heavy compared to an airzound
If kemmer says he has a good reason, seeing the results will be a lot of fun. :D

If kemmer says he has a good reason, seeing the results will be a lot of fun. :D

i had one on my bike it was the trail sweeper of my dreams

Anyone else expecting this thread to be of phantomcow's doing? :p

I don't have any idea about this kind of thing, but I demand photographs of the finished product, and a description of how it was done.

Someday I need to get back on my drill-battery-powered car horn project...

a train horn would be better

a train horn would be better

I thought about that, but train horns have three or more horns and require more air than I am willing to store on this particular bike. Maybe on a trike someday. :)

a train horn would be better

too big too expensive a 22 inch semi horn has the same effect when placed on a bicycle

Remember, these horns are very directional.

Remember, these horns are very directional.

That's why it'll be facing back. :D

That's why it'll be facing back. :D

AH! The plot thickens! :D

By manifolding the bottles together, you will get more storage volume, so you will hold your pressure longer. Hence, more blasts.

...and it's pronounced Fnoomatics!

Have you considered trailer mounted since it will be facing to the rear?
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r162/jsharr/KillerHorn.jpg

AH! The plot thickens! :D

By manifolding the bottles together, you will get more storage volume, so you will hold your pressure longer. Hence, more blasts.

What are the complications with doing something like that? Do I need to do anything special or just hook them all toghether? Is it the same with regular old compressed air and nitrous oxide at 3000 psi?

What are the complications with doing something like that? Do I need to do anything special or just hook them all toghether? Is it the same with regular old compressed air and nitrous oxide at 3000 psi?

Just hook them together. They will form the pressure supply end of your system.

All you are doing here is increasing the size of your pressure vessel.

Considering your flows are relatively low, there should be no problems. At worst, you use tubing that is too small, and you could go sonic. But don't fear. All that does is restrict your flow.

Just hook them together. They will form the pressure supply end of your system.

All you are doing here is increasing the size of your pressure vessel.

Considering your flows are relatively low, there should be no problems. At worst, you use tubing that is too small, and you could go sonic. But don't fear. All that does is restrict your flow.

If I were to use co2 or nitrous oxide it wouldn't be a problem even though the pressures are much higher? Also, please define "go sonic." It sounds cool but maybe scary but mostly cool.

I'm also still a bit confused about regulators, I assume the 800psi ones that come with nitrous oxide tanks will be too high. Also the co2 tanks don't seem to include them, will I need to purchase 100 psi regulators? If I use multiple tanks, will I need a regulator for each tank or just one at the manifold?

Would it be a bad idea to use one of those bernzomatic type propane cylinders? I know they're supposed to be disposable, but for regular compressed air it should be ok right? I'm thinking three of those hooked together should work. Maybe camp stove tanks? Are the threads on these the same as standard fittings? Do they have internal regulators or anything?

I'll just be sure and paint the tanks so the cops don't think I'm sporting one of these: http://hallert.net/misc/pneumatics/flamethrower1.avi OTOH, maybe I should just rig up one of those instead.

you guys are Getting No2 and N7 confused

you guys are Getting No2 and N7 confused

N20 is nitrous oxide, what is N7 and No2?

N20 is nitrous oxide, what is N7 and No2?

my bad on n20, N7 is nitrogen

I say there's a fair chance he may not live to tell about it. Not kidding.

I say there's a fair chance he may not live to tell about it. Not kidding.

what makes you think that?

i run nitrogen on my semi tires best invesment ever i also run nitrogen on my 3500. only one of my bikes has nitrogen on the tires since i ride that the most. nitrogen on car tires is a lot better than normal air since it lacks the capacity to condensate under certain conditions

If I were to use co2 or nitrous oxide it wouldn't be a problem even though the pressures are much higher? Also, please define "go sonic." It sounds cool but maybe scary but mostly cool.

I'm also still a bit confused about regulators, I assume the 800psi ones that come with nitrous oxide tanks will be too high. Also the co2 tanks don't seem to include them, will I need to purchase 100 psi regulators? If I use multiple tanks, will I need a regulator for each tank or just one at the manifold?

You "go sonic" when your flow exceeds the speed of sound. If you do this, the flow is said to be "choked". Your flow won't change based on downstream pressure changes. Flow is choked when the difference between the inlet pressure and outlet pressure (commonly called "delta P") is greater than or equal to 1/2 the inlet pressure. For instance:

P1 = Inlet Pressure
P2 = Outlet Pressure

If P1 = 200 psig, and P2 = 50 psig:

One half inlet pressure: P1/2 = 100 psig

Delta P: (P1-P2) = (200 psig -50 psig) = 150 psig

Since 150 psig >= 100 psig, the flow is sonic. Don't worry, nothing will blow up, and your ears won't explode from the noise.

To regulate your pressure supply, just use one regulator at the end of the manifold. Just be sure your regulator is rated for the maximum inlet pressure.

Regarding the gas bottles you plan to use, I have no idea what kind of fittings they have, so I can't give you any advice.

Be VERY CAREFUL when working with high pressure gas. It can be as dangerous as working with a bomb if you don't know exactly what you are doing.

Once again, please take any information you get on this forum with a grain of salt. Without seeing EXACTLY what your system looks like, no one can give concrete advice.

Including me, and I've been doing this for about 27 years! :D

However, I get the feeling that you will be doing this anyway...

Be sure all the components in your system have a safety factor of at least 3. In other words, if you are going to operate at 500 psig, be sure your equipment will burst at no lower than 3*500 psig = 1,500 psig.

Be sure all the components in your system have a safety factor of at least 3. In other words, if you are going to operate at 500 psig, be sure your equipment will burst at no lower than 3*500 psig = 1,500 psig.
Considering Kemmer's got 3 little rug rats in the vicinity of his bikes, that's a very good suggestion.

Safety first, or at least second. Seriously though, I do have some misgivings about running 3000psi so I may end up just using regular old compressed air.

Considering Kemmer's got 3 little rug rats in the vicinity of his bikes, that's a very good suggestion.

Are you kidding? I don't let those little monsters in the same room as my bikes. ;)

It's for their own safety, yeah, that's it.

A regular old bicycle floor pump will power a truck horn extremely well. I've seen it done on a double trumpet. The guy hardly had to pump at all to get a huge blast out of it. Just as loud as any truck.


Many floor pumps go up to 160psi and plenty of volume for the horn. No tank needed. Cheap. No refilling.