Advocacy & Safety - Left speechless, no retort

I was riding on a narrow, two lane city street. Not enough room for a bike and a car at the same time. I was on my road bike so I was going a little over twenty MPH. I was taking the lane. Car in back of me honks at me a couple of times, not really obnoxiously, but not just one blip, as we are approaching an intersection that is at a steep angle with lots of oncoming cars turning left in front of me. Theres no way I'm moving over under any circumstances in the middle of an intersection.

After I pass the intersection and after oncoming traffic clears, the driver passes me, then slows down next to me. I guess I must really be important because he actually took his cellphone from his ear to shout at me. I was ready with my usual response, which was to suggest the he committ an indecent act with his mother, or to perform an act that is physically impossible with his automobile and a body orifice, but all he yells at me is "Can't you move over a couple of feet?".

I was dumbfounded, no comeback! What should I have said?

"No!"
"My safety is my only concern."

dipy911

I've taken to screaming "LEARN THE RULES OF THE ROAD!" in those types of scenarios.

I hope it gets them thinking....

When I can't think of a retort, a simple "Shut up, Stupid" seems to be a pretty good all-purpose response.

I was riding on a narrow....no comeback! What should I have said?

I think Bekologists is best. It is not confrontational, and encourages the driver to check into the law. If there IS no room for a 'bike and a car at the same time,' then I think its your judgement as to whether it is safer to to take the lane or just avoid that roadway. But taking the lane forces the driver to treat you as a bona fide road user.

roughstuff

"Not 'til it's safe for you to pass" would probably be understandable... and _might_ help the driver to understand your actions

.....but all he yells at me is "Can't you move over a couple of feet?".

I was dumbfounded, no comeback! What should I have said?

Answer: "Why?"

Or better yet: "Why can't you just stay behind me for a minute?"

My default response is to smile, wave and yell "Thank you!".

Agreed with what others have said.

However one thing to consider is the drivers point of view. They are only thinking of themselves and that they could safely pass you if you moved over and they likely could. What they don't consider is that once you move over there is a line of vehicle/drivers behind them who may not pass safely.

I think this partly contributes to hostile reactions from drivers, thinking only of themselves passing you and not you riding in a manner that considers all other drivers passing you.

Al

"I will as soon as it's safe!"

Id probably have yelled with my finger.

Agreed with what others have said.

However one thing to consider is the drivers point of view. They are only thinking of themselves and that they could safely pass you if you moved over and they likely could. What they don't consider is that once you move over there is a line of vehicle/drivers behind them who may not pass safely.

I think this partly contributes to hostile reactions from drivers, thinking only of themselves passing you and not you riding in a manner that considers all other drivers passing you.

Al

+100... especially the bit about motorists just thinking of themselves.

Really, how much delay can any one cyclist cause at any time? Why is it that motorists always seem to be rushing to a fire?

Really, how much delay can any one cyclist cause at any time? Why is it that motorists always seem to be rushing to a fire?

and any delay can easily be made up by pushing the right pedal down slightly. no effort even.

+

Really, how much delay can any one cyclist cause at any time? Why is it that motorists always seem to be rushing to a fire?

He was actually in a big hurry to stop, since there was a stop sign at an intersection about 100 meters ahead where I caught up to him when he stopped.

He was actually in a big hurry to stop, since there was a stop sign at an intersection about 100 meters ahead where I caught up to him when he stopped.

Yeah, I've seen this action far too many times myself... This sort of thing was the basis for my whole "The Notion... Explained" (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=188845&highlight=the+notion...+explained) thread last year.

I've yet to figure out why motorists cannot just take their foot off the gas pedal, and just coast to a pending stop... where is it written in driving rules that one must go at their highest possible speed, right up to the stop line? (and in this day and age of expensive gas... why haven't motorists learned that jackrabbit starts and stops are just a waste? sigh)

This was actually a very mild honk while in a RTOL approaching a red, but after the turn the driver yelled at me to get on the sidewalk. This same driver has honked at me several time before/after - if it were not for the yelling at me and the other honks it would almost seem a 'courtesy' honk, by an unaware driver. (ingore the break squeal, it has been fixed)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGuZOpEou1s

Al

Smile and wave boys, smile and wave!

or:

What's wrong, can't talk and FOLLOW a cyclist at the same time?

"Can't you drive something 4' narrower?"

I'm terribly sorry that my safety cost you an entire thirty seconds out of your day.

Beyond that I have copies of the state code pertaining to bicyclists (free from my state) that I'll stick under a wiper if I have to.

"Can't you move over a couple of feet?".


San Rensho,

Thanks for the opportunity to think about my response while I'm sitting behind a computer, with plenty of time to come up with snappy answers to a stupid question. :)

1) "I was going to ask you the same question."

2) "Don't let me disrupt your phone conversation!"

3) "I would, if it weren't for that nasty guardrail on my right."

4) "Sorry! Need to go to the bathroom?"

5) "That's what my wife keeps asking me."

6) "No, I'm too busy being insensitive."

7) "I'm glad you asked. I actually prefer riding on the grass."

8) "Congratulations! You are the 1,000th motorist to ask me that question! You've won the grand prize: one free tank of gasoline at the most expensive gas station in town!"

9) "I could, but you'll still have to lose a few pounds to make us fit together."

:p

Motorists seem to have an instinctual urge to pass bicycles under any circumstance whatsoever. I think they think it's their right as the faster vehicle.

One day a guy tried to pass me on a mall perimeter road between stop signs 50' apart with a 10 MPH speed limit. He was angry that I was taking the lane (and probably exceeding the speed limit most of the way).

Answer "no!"

"LEARN THE RULES OF THE ROAD!"

"Shut up, Stupid"

"No, I'm too busy being insensitive."
uh, guys

the whole point here is that the driver asked nicely. The OP was ready with a mean response, but couldn't use it in the face of a decent, if misguided, question. Insults, confrontational remarks, and passive-aggressive sarcasm do nothing positive when there's a chance for a short lesson.

"The lane's too narrow to share."

Here is how I handled a driver comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UVCKzKJ74A

My verbal communication skills go downhill while riding.

Al

You folks still riding around in the middle of the road and wondering why you're getting yelled at? Huh.

uh, guys

the whole point here is that the driver asked nicely... The OP was ready with a mean response, but couldn't use it in the face of a decent, if misguided, question. Insults, confrontational remarks, and passive-aggressive sarcasm do nothing positive when there's a chance for a short lesson.

"The lane's too narrow to share."

Sounded more to me like he was being sarcastic, but I wasn't there. However your response is excellent.

"Yeah. *shrug*"

Sounds like you were both pretty cool about it. In defense of drivers, the driver doesn't know how long he will be following you. Could be 20 feet or 20 blocks. People behind him start to tailgate and swerve around him. If he hits his brakes, HE's likely to get honked at for doing nothing but being safe.
Another part of the problem is the ridiculous size of vehicles these days. They take a lot of energy to regain momentum when they are slowed. Plus they're all auto transmissions these days. It's nice to see a revival of the compact car (sort of). Bottom line: Driving is about 1000 times more aggravating than cycling, but drivers make the choice to be a part of the problem.

"Can't you move over a couple of feet?".



No. Sorry. Thankyou for you patience.

You folks still riding around in the middle of the road and wondering why you're getting yelled at? Huh.

Some people are just slow learners, I guess.

"Drive somewhere else!"

Could be 20 feet or 20 blocks. People behind him start to tailgate and swerve around him. If he hits his brakes, HE's likely to get honked at for doing nothing but being safe..

If they wanted to be safe and/or courteous they would not tailgate, but instead when seeing a cyclist in lane gradually slow and stay back a few car lengths. There would never be a need to hit the brakes. Also the further they stay back a bit it will be easier for them to pass when a gap occurs as they will havea bit of room to accelerate before fully moving into adjacent lane.

Al

Sounded more to me like he was being sarcastic, but I wasn't there. However your response is excellent.

I took the comment to be sincere, fairly civil, and and not sarcastic, otherwise I would have unloaded on him.

Agreed with what others have said.

However one thing to consider is the drivers point of view. They are only thinking of themselves and that they could safely pass you if you moved over and they likely could. What they don't consider is that once you move over there is a line of vehicle/drivers behind them who may not pass safely.

I think this partly contributes to hostile reactions from drivers, thinking only of themselves passing you and not you riding in a manner that considers all other drivers passing you.

Al

Now the hard part, a way to say it quickly. Perhaps something like 'I would if ALL drivers would pass me safely.

Honestly this guy sounds like one of the problem drivers for a quick reply. If it wasn't for the cellphone I'd say my comment would be right, but with it he is one of those who could be distracted for a split second and you end up hurt or dead.

You folks still riding around in the middle of the road and wondering why you're getting yelled at? Huh.

What rock did you crawl out from under.

What rock did you crawl out from under.

Same rock all trolls crawl out from under...

You folks still riding around in the middle of the road and wondering why you're getting yelled at? Huh.

Com'on Six jours, we've talked about this... not everywhere is blessed with wide lanes and bike lanes... there are times when you have no choice but to ride in the middle of the road.

The real question is why motorists have such a hard time realizing this too. Or better yet, why motorists cannot jump on a bike for a simple errand run... SIGH.

We've talked about it. And talked about it, and talked about it some more.

And yet every other thread around here is some fellow wondering why on earth a cyclist would get honked out merely for riding around in the middle of the lane blocking traffic.

Maybe you guys are just bored.

What rock did you crawl out from under.

The one where we end questions with question marks.

But hey, I don't want to be seen as a troll, so I'll offer my own advice about how to respond to motorists in this scenario:

"Well, I'm a member of a small online cult where we've all talked ourselves into believing that interfering with motor traffic is in our best interest. I can't begin to understand why you don't see the logic in that. You stupid cager."

The one where we end questions with question marks.

But hey, I don't want to be seen as a troll, so I'll offer my own advice about how to respond to motorists in this scenario:

"Well, I'm a member of a small online cult where we've all talked ourselves into believing that interfering with motor traffic is in our best interest. I can't begin to understand why you don't see the logic in that. You stupid cager."

Well take your question mark and crawl back under your rock, cager.

Thanks for doing your part to maintain the classy tone around here! :lol:

You folks still riding around in the middle of the road and wondering why you're getting yelled at? Huh.

Stay classy San Diego.

You folks still riding around in the middle of the road and wondering why you're getting yelled at?

What I think is far more notable is how very few motorists honk or yell at me when I am riding centerish in a narrow lane. Thousands of miles and many thousands of motorists have been behind me and never acted aggressively or obnoxiously. I can coun't on one hand (or maybe one and a half) the number of times I've been treated poorly when riding centerish in a lane. It is equal, actually less, to the number of times I've been treated poorly while riding in a bike lane actually.

The enormous majority of drivers treat me very well.

Al

We've talked about it. And talked about it, and talked about it some more.

And yet every other thread around here is some fellow wondering why on earth a cyclist would get honked out merely for riding around in the middle of the lane blocking traffic.

Maybe you guys are just bored.

...and if there is no other place to ride on that road or if there is not an alternate road... what again is your suggestion? You never answered that, ever. Such roads do exist... lined with parked cars, otherwise narrow, only one lane either way, maybe a 25 or 35MPH speed limit...

Where do you ride on such roads.... or does nothing of the kind exist in Orange county? They sure exist here, and some are even marked as Bike Routes... being the best way through an area. Being perhaps the ONLY way through an area.

Where do you ride on such roads....

Genec, don't bother. If I recall right 6J is a bad-ass tough cyclist with the skills to ride inches from the pavement edge and is not bothered by very close passes.

Al

Not this again:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=311119&page=6

Al

The one where we end questions with question marks.

But hey, I don't want to be seen as a troll, so I'll offer my own advice about how to respond to motorists in this scenario:

"Well, I'm a member of a small online cult where we've all talked ourselves into believing that interfering with motor traffic is in our best interest. I can't begin to understand why you don't see the logic in that. You stupid cager."

Sorry, you're still a troll. :fight:

...and if there is no other place to ride on that road or if there is not an alternate road... what again is your suggestion? You never answered that, ever.

Actually, I've answered it repeatedly: if there is truly no other choice, then, well, there is no other choice. You do what you have to do, although you shouldn't be puzzled when people honk at you. You are, after all, blocking traffic.

The real issue, though, is the definition of "no other choice". My overwhelming experience with the VC cult here on BF is that many of you define "no other choice" as "Anything less than a perfectly paved 20 foot lane with no intersections, driveways,signals, or stop signs". IOW, the VCer has talked himself into the necessity of "taking the lane" in pretty much every concievable situation.

Genec, don't bother. If I recall right 6J is a bad-ass tough cyclist with the skills to ride inches from the pavement edge and is not bothered by very close passes.


Another typical A&S tactic.

One does not need to be "bad-ass" or "tough" to ride a straight line. And "very close passes" are another one of those topics where the VCers depart from reality, IMO. When anything closer than four feet is a "close pass" then yeah, the street has to be 25 feet wide in order to avoid "close passes". Typical circular reasoning.

Another typical A&S tactic.

One does not need to be "bad-ass" or "tough" to ride a straight line. And "very close passes" are another one of those topics where the VCers depart from reality, IMO. When anything closer than four feet is a "close pass" then yeah, the street has to be 25 feet wide in order to avoid "close passes". Typical circular reasoning.

I agree it was an unneeded 'tactic.'

I do however believe that when riding 20mph+ one needs to leave ~2ft from curb edge and one should expect 3ft of passing clearance. (That is the law where I live) I am generally OK with 2ft from outside edge of handlebar to outer most portion of vehicle. More is needed if a large truck like vehicle.

I can side-by-side share 16' wide lanes with most motor vehicles.

Do you really think my position in the below photo link is 'in the middle of the lane' and unnessarily blocking traffic?

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=47903&d=1182534791

Al