"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - PowerTap uh huh

Saw a CL ad and jumped on it. Yes, I ended up mounting the computer backward and broke the cadence sensor, requiring some serious mousework, but more importantly I got a good day's data.

Never thought I'd be so happy to see objective proof that I have the aerobic capacity of an asthmatic hamster.

I call mine "The Deceiver" because my heart tells me I'm pumping out 400 watts all the time when the power meter clearly says otherwise

I will be riding with my PowerTap for the 4th time today...

I think mine is broken...

All it does is flash "YOU SUCK"...

I will be riding with my PowerTap for the 4th time today...

I think mine is broken...

All it does is flash "YOU SUCK"...


Sounds like it is, indeed, broken.

Mine works though.

It has a nice, consistent "Mediocrity" displayed on it.

Possibly getting a used SL for $600. Laced to 32-hole open pros. Owner used it for one year. Good deal?

Con-grat-u-#*&$ing-lations!

<grumble grumble curse>

;)

Sounds like it is, indeed, broken.

Mine works though.

It has a nice, consistent "Mediocrity" displayed on it.

5.0 FTP is not mediocre.

I had my guesstimated FTP so low that now that I'm actually using the thing, I feel like a stud. That is until the first race I did with it when I see that I still need a bigger number. I guess that's why I bought the thing.

Possibly getting a used SL for $600. Laced to 32-hole open pros. Owner used it for one year. Good deal?

Yep. I paid $666 (really) for mine on Ebay. I then destroyed the Open Pro and had it re-laced with Sapim CXRays to an IRD Aero hoop. Stiffer, same weight, more aero...

Con-grat-u-#*&$ing-lations!

<grumble grumble curse>

;)

Thought you'd get a kick out of that. Despite being dogged by my VO2 numbers, I kicked out 1070 on a flat at the end of the ride. I want to hit 1300 sometime.

The best was catching a friend of mine for a beer Friday night. He said, "Hey I saw a 2007 PowerTap SL listed on Craigslist..."

I raise my finger, "I own it."

The math I used with my wife was this:

Used 2007 PowerTap SL + rear wheel: $725
I need a new wheel: $380
I'm selling my iBike/cadence/TT mount: $340

Therefore the total cost of migrating from iBike to PowerTap: $5.
$725 - ($380 + $340) = $5

That, and I watched the little one all day Thursday so she could spend the day in the city with her college friends touring the yuppie wine bars. "No honey, you deserve it."

NEVER use math to justify the purchase of bike related stuff...

5.0 FTP is not mediocre.

That was my old 20MP goal. Now it's like 5.1 or something.:rolleyes:

FTP isn't that high, obviously.

When you're 65kg and primarily race crits, though, you take your beatings. Horses for courses, and I am not built for Churchill Downs.

Thought you'd get a kick out of that. Despite being dogged by my VO2 numbers, I kicked out 1070 on a flat at the end of the ride. I want to hit 1300 sometime.

The best was catching a friend of mine for a beer Friday night. He said, "Hey I saw a 2007 PowerTap SL listed on Craigslist..."

I raise my finger, "I own it."

The math I used with my wife was this:

Used 2007 PowerTap SL + rear wheel: $725
I need a new wheel: $380
I'm selling my iBike/cadence/TT mount: $340

Therefore the total cost of migrating from iBike to PowerTap: $5.
$725 - ($380 + $340) = $5

That, and I watched the little one all day Thursday so she could spend the day in the city with her college friends touring the yuppie wine bars. "No honey, you deserve it."

Good logic. I built that psycho rear wheel I have on there now, so I've got like 3 more years before the "I need a new rear wheel" argument will ring true :)

Christmas will be here, and I'll be just as disappointed as everyone else with my power numbers :beer:

I just justified the purchase of a Plasma with math...

$850 (Plasma) - $500 (P2SL) - $400 (more speed) = $-50.

I <3 math.

On the upside, I have now spent more money on bikes in the past month than I ever thought was possible. I got *almost* all of it back from selling the old stuff, but still...

all you gotta do is catch and stay ahead of someone who has a powertap, never actually buy one yourself

Saw a CL ad and jumped on it. .

Now, get Cycling Peaks WKO. It will help you take advantage of the data.

Now, get Cycling Peaks WKO. It will help you take advantage of the data.

Already had it. It helped illustrate that my iBike data was truly nonsense.

Yep. I paid $666 (really) for mine on Ebay. I then destroyed the Open Pro and had it re-laced with Sapim CXRays to an IRD Aero hoop. Stiffer, same weight, more aero...


<HIJACK>
Thanks Damocles... I'm not worried about the weight or the aeroness yet... I just need to get one and jump in to training with power.
</HIJACK>

Thought you'd get a kick out of that. Despite being dogged by my VO2 numbers, I kicked out 1070 on a flat at the end of the ride. I want to hit 1300 sometime.

The best was catching a friend of mine for a beer Friday night. He said, "Hey I saw a 2007 PowerTap SL listed on Craigslist..."

I raise my finger, "I own it."

The math I used with my wife was this:

Used 2007 PowerTap SL + rear wheel: $725
I need a new wheel: $380
I'm selling my iBike/cadence/TT mount: $340

Therefore the total cost of migrating from iBike to PowerTap: $5.
$725 - ($380 + $340) = $5

That, and I watched the little one all day Thursday so she could spend the day in the city with her college friends touring the yuppie wine bars. "No honey, you deserve it."



Genius!

So, is CyclingPeaks that much better than, say, the SRM software?

I can't bring myself to spend $100...

So, is CyclingPeaks that much better than, say, the SRM software?

I can't bring myself to spend $100...

Why don't you just pull down the 30-day trial, import all your power files, and play around with it?

Why don't you just pull down the 30-day trial, import all your power files, and play around with it?

If you do that, you're pretty much gonna buy it. At least if the other option is the PT software (I've never used the SRM version).

I can't bring myself to spend $100...

http://goldencheetah.org/index.html

???

Yeah, but is it any good? I'm almost certainly getting Cycling Peaks as soon as I upgrade to the new Mac OSX and Bootcamp is no longer a Beta...

http://goldencheetah.org/index.html

???

??? http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3346/wkobt1.png (https://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/checkout_step1.asp?grouping=cpsoft)

There's no doubt in my mind that Cyclingpeaks is worth the $99. There's a whole lot more I wish it could do, but you can't demand everything from one piece of software. Cyclingpeaks ability to handle/analyze power data is much more capable than anything else I've used since I got the PT last year this time.

Interestingly, most people point to the performance mangement chart as the key reason for the purchase of Cyclingpeaks. To be honest though, I find using an Excel spreadsheet to handle the PMC is much more effective because Cyclingpeaks is much harder to "project" forward and change views of the graphs. I'm able to toss in races and project them in the schedule, and see where my ATL/CTL/TSB is going and where I can take them. Additionally, I can generate trends and also toss in a whole lot more into one workbook.

So, is CyclingPeaks that much better than, say, the SRM software?


Way. It's a lot more rich than the SRM software, though the SRM software's summaries on the graphic display are pretty cool. Even the PowerTap software is a lot more rich.

It's $100 very well spent. SRMWin doesn't have anything in the way of ATL/CTL. Buy it. Afterward, you might feel you were flying blind.

"I can't bring myself to spend $100," says the guy with (count 'em) two SRMs! :eek:

"I can't bring myself to spend $100," says the guy with (count 'em) two SRMs! :eek:

How do you figure? I have one. I move it. A lot.

How do you figure? I have one. I move it. A lot.

Wow. Good on ya. Thought you had one for each bike.

SRMs are expensive. If you roll up your training with power package, CyclingPeaks is a small line item.

Yeah, I just haven't really had a reason as of yet to do it... My coach does most of the power file looking-at. I probably should be, but meh... Whenever I upgrade my laptop to the new OS X it'll happen. I don't want to install it, just to have to redo it next month.

Saw a CL ad and jumped on it. Yes, I ended up mounting the computer backward and broke the cadence sensor, requiring some serious mousework, but more importantly I got a good day's data.

Never thought I'd be so happy to see objective proof that I have the aerobic capacity of an asthmatic hamster.

I myself aspire to such unreachable aerobic heights.

I myself aspire to such unreachable aerobic heights.

PCad, I call BS. You keep talking yourself down, then you go put out some halfway decent numbers. Remember that story about your daughter? Yeah, remember it next time you write that, then go kick @$$ at your next TT.

Just broke my USB PowerTap cradle. ~$65. I'm just too strong for all this fragile cycling stuff. I break everything. It just crumbles in my hands of steel. At least now I'm not breaking furniture. That was even more expensive.

Did He-Man or Conan have these problems?

Just broke my USB PowerTap cradle. ~$65. I'm just too strong for all this fragile cycling stuff. I break everything. It just crumbles in my hands of steel. At least now I'm not breaking furniture. That was even more expensive.

Did He-Man or Conan have these problems?

Time for the soldering iron?

Time for the soldering iron?

I already ordered a new one. Yeah, I could solder the one wire that popped, add a silicone insulator over the top of the solder and then it seems I'd need to hot glue the base back together. But that seems very sketchy to impossible for me to do well.

My wife is the one with the hands of a surgeon, but she told me she won't touch a soldering iron.

Because this is an agricultural area, there's a place to hire migrant workers around the block. I was thinking it would be nice to hire someone with good hands to patch tubes, do some soldering, add some touch up paint, clean my drive train and fix all the imperfect work I've done to my bike. I could probably use such a person 10 hours a week.

10 hours?!?! You do break a lot of $#!%


I already ordered a new one. Yeah, I could solder the one wire that popped, add a silicone insulator over the top of the solder and then it seems I'd need to hot glue the base back together. But that seems very sketchy to impossible for me to do well.

My wife is the one with the hands of a surgeon, but she told me she won't touch a soldering iron.

Because this is an agricultural area, there's a place to hire migrant workers around the block. I was thinking it would be nice to hire someone with good hands to patch tubes, do some soldering, add some touch up paint, clean my drive train and fix all the imperfect work I've done to my bike. I could probably use such a person 10 hours a week.

10 hours?!?! You do break a lot of $#!%

It really is unbelievable. I was collecting all the stuff I'd broken but it got to be very depressing real quick.

I don't have the time to go to the shop and drop off my bike for who knows long every time I order something new, so then I end up doing the work myself. This impatience has given rise to a parts graveyard that has me questioning my hobby's environmental impact.

I bet some accounting could help me out here... I bet I could go make sense of something like 20 hours per six months. If this person could hand out food at a "feed zone" and do massage that would rock.

I already ordered a new one. Yeah, I could solder the one wire that popped, add a silicone insulator over the top of the solder and then it seems I'd need to hot glue the base back together. But that seems very sketchy to impossible for me to do well.

My wife is the one with the hands of a surgeon, but she told me she won't touch a soldering iron.

Because this is an agricultural area, there's a place to hire migrant workers around the block. I was thinking it would be nice to hire someone with good hands to patch tubes, do some soldering, add some touch up paint, clean my drive train and fix all the imperfect work I've done to my bike. I could probably use such a person 10 hours a week.

I'm spoiled working for a chip company on a campus with countless labs... and solderererers

I'm so bummed. I'm pretty sure I bumped myself up the Coggan chart yesterday into low Cat 3 for 1 minute power -- a minor (or "infernal" as opposed to divine) miracle for me, but I have no immediately visible proof.

Not to bust your bubble, but the Coggan chart is useless garbage.

PCad, I call BS. You keep talking yourself down, then you go put out some halfway decent numbers. Remember that story about your daughter? Yeah, remember it next time you write that, then go kick @$$ at your next TT.

Finishing 15th out of 20 45+ dudes in a TT are not 'halfway decent numbers'. If I sucked any harder I'd be Ryanf. Well, OK, it may not be that bad, but the kid does have youth on his side. If he's actually a real person I mean. The only @$$ that gets kicked at my next TT is my own.

Hey, that sounded humble, right?

Not to bust your bubble, but the Coggan chart is useless garbage.

Agreed.

If I get down to the weight that a coach-like figure thinks I can, and my fitness keeps improving, I'll be on a level with UCI Div 3 pro dudes next spring.


According to the 20MP chart, that is. And as I am a new Cat2 who will probably get his ass handed to him left and right next season, I'm going to have to put the ego in check, and say that the chart is a little off in some areas.

Not to bust your bubble, but the Coggan chart is useless garbage.

Yeah, I was looking at the spreadsheet, and it's just linear equations with arbitrary constants. If you graph one column, you get a line -- there's no way that people's power goes up linearly with respect to category. If you graph local TT results sometime, you'll see a steep curve near the high placings, and you'll see some Cat 4s beating some Cat 2s.

Yeah, that thing tells me I'm a slacker for not having owned the 4's and gotten my 3's upgrade -- definitely not true. Power across categories is definitely not linear. I'd guess something more like a 1/X curve... I'm a nerd.

Yeah, I was looking at the spreadsheet, and it's just linear equations with arbitrary constants. If you graph one column, you get a line -- there's no way that people's power goes up linearly with respect to category. If you graph local TT results sometime, you'll see a steep curve near the high placings, and you'll see some Cat 4s beating some Cat 2s.


Depends what type of TT you have, and what kind of riders you have.

A flat TT could see a 4 beat a 2, yeah.

A hill climb could see a strong climber of a 4 beat a weak climber/sprinter 2.

A hill climb between two climbers will see a 2 demolish a 4, on average.

A flat TT is not indicative of how much w/kg you produce. It's indicative of how much total wattage you produce, and how much money you can throw at your bike/position.

Michael Rich would probably be around your Cat1 status in terms of W/kg, but he was a multiple time World's silver medalist. And probably the scariest person I've ever seen on a bike.

Depends what type of TT you have, and what kind of riders you have.

A flat TT could see a 4 beat a 2, yeah.

A hill climb could see a strong climber of a 4 beat a weak climber/sprinter 2.

A hill climb between two climbers will see a 2 demolish a 4, on average.

A flat TT is not indicative of how much w/kg you produce. It's indicative of how much total wattage you produce, and how much money you can throw at your bike/position.

Michael Rich would probably be around your Cat1 status in terms of W/kg, but he was a multiple time World's silver medalist. And probably the scariest person I've ever seen on a bike.

Your examples are valid, and make sense. IMO, this further demonstrates the uselessness of the table. The categories don't overlap enough to account for a Cat 4 climber beating a Cat 2 sprinter up a hill. Yet, here the Cat 4 winner in this hill climb would have placed 11th in the P/1/2 -- and if you pull Danielson and Moninger off the results, he did well among the 2s (and 1s).
http://www.bicyclerace.com/2004_results/mtevans-srmen.htm

Yeah, I was looking at the spreadsheet, and it's just linear equations with arbitrary constants. If you graph one column, you get a line -- there's no way that people's power goes up linearly with respect to category. If you graph local TT results sometime, you'll see a steep curve near the high placings, and you'll see some Cat 4s beating some Cat 2s.
I think you really need to understand the context of Andy's chart. He didn't even want to put those categories in it himself [but I think he caved], realizing they are somewhat or very inaccurate in a lot of cases. However, it can be helpful to see some sort of a comparison at any rate, even if it's not that great.

The actual numbers though, the power to weight ratio for each time period, is very real.

-bullseye

Your examples are valid, and make sense. IMO, this further demonstrates the uselessness of the table. The categories don't overlap enough to account for a Cat 4 climber beating a Cat 2 sprinter up a hill. Yet, here the Cat 4 winner in this hill climb would have placed 11th in the P/1/2 -- and if you pull Danielson and Moninger off the results, he did well among the 2s (and 1s).
http://www.bicyclerace.com/2004_results/mtevans-srmen.htm

I think that illustrates the problems of trying to predict performance using USAC categories. The table isn't intended to predict performance or assign categories. For a hill climb, performance would probably correlate well with W/kg:

W/kg --> results

Don't try to do this:

USAC category --> results

Or this:

table --> USAC category --> results

Don't even get me started on using VAM from different climbs.

I think you really need to understand the context of Andy's chart. He didn't even want to put those categories in it himself [but I think he caved], realizing they are somewhat or very inaccurate in a lot of cases. However, it can be helpful to see some sort of a comparison at any rate, even if it's not that great.

The actual numbers though, the power to weight ratio for each time period, is very real.

-bullseye

The pitch for the profile, as I read it, is that you look at the horizontal shape of your positions in the chart. This can indicate propensity toward climbing or time-trialing, vs sprinting. The problem is that all four (or eight?) columns are linear equations, anchored at the top (international pro). The further down the chart you go, the less accuracy you're going to see in the relationship between the chart positions. The lines can't possibly be pointing in the right direction, because they shouldn't even be lines. I'll bet there are a lot of cat 4s who are surprised to see that their strength is sprinting (because it isn't).

I'm surprised that a chart based on actual data has not been created using the CyclingPeaks coaching database. Even if you don't have a racer's category (which isn't worth much), you would at least have real numbers for real athletes. Even if there are only 100 or so athletes in the DB, it seems like you'd have a decent amount of data.

Yeah, the shape can occasionally be useful, but honestly, even then, looking at a table's not the best way to do it.

I'll give you, it can be fun to see how you stack up on the table every once and a while, but it still has next to no use.