Recumbent - Information on gallop compact low racer recumbent?

http://www.twbents.com.tw/HTM/gallop.htm

Does anybody have any more information about the gallop compact low racer recumbent that TW Bents showed at the 2007 Tapei cycle show?

Thanks

Honestly, it looks too upright to be very fast, but it looks comfortable. The tooth combo up front looks suited to very flat roads only.

Must be a binch to shift from the small to the large chainring. The old (RIP) Pharobike used that wheel combination, I think.

I just have a bit of hope that TW-Bents will come out with an affordable lowracer recumbent for the U.S. market. I think it is crazy that we have to pay so much for such a simple machine. TW-Bents is the only company that can start the trend towards lower prices. Also, the cute lowracer is a nice compact design that makes me want one. It isn't too low and I like the seat angle.

I think it is crazy that we have to pay so much for such a simple machine.

Why do you want more people riding recumbents?

I kinda enjoy the exclusivity that comes with owning something that most people wont buy because it's "too expensive".

Well, I find that kind of an odd opinion to hold. First of all I don't think that anything should cost more than it is worth sheerly for the novelty of the product. I work too hard to give people my money without it being warranted. I believe that a quality product deserves a reasonable and uninflated price. I do not believe that is an unreasonable expectation. As far as why I would like more people to ride bents, well there is a simple answer to that. I want more people to dump their cars and ride bikes. If bents were more available and more popular more people would ride because it would be more comfortable to ride. People also like the thought of using the cool latest gadgets and bents fall into that category. There is really no reason the material or labor costs of making a bent should be any more than for the production of a wedgie bike. Many of the parts are exactly the same, so any difference is a function of frame, seat, and handlebars. In some cases the frame for a bent is actually simpler to make than a diamond frame bike. Take the Gallop cute lowracer for instance. It is basically one frame tube bent into the desired shape with a bottom bracket boom, rear fork, and head tube added. There is much less welding and brazing involved than for a diamond frame bike not to mention that it is a simpler design, so it makes logical sense that the product costs less to make; however, due to the novelty of the item it will be sold at a premium. I think there are plenty of people that would dump their road bikes for bents if they had a cool fast alternative that was attainable price wise. Manufacturers have to think of maintaining this botique flavor to their bikes and switching over to a mass market quality product. Hey, aren't we all going to end up on bikes some day when the gas runs out anyway? ;-)

Ok, I found a distributer in the U.S. that is planing to carry the Gallop cute lowracer.

http://www.getitbent.com/htmlfiles/newperformance.html

Performance XPR has the lowracer listed on their website as an upcoming product for late 2007. I wrote them to find out if they have any idea about price or availability yet.

You know I think it is sort of odd, but Actionbent told me in an email that they would never be carrying that lowracer model. I wonder why it is that they are allowing Performance XPR get the upper hand.

One more thing, does anybody know why Performance XPR charge more for the same bikes as Actionbent when they are both selling products from TW-Bents? You would think that there would be more price parity. You would also think that they would make sure that they had more product from TW-Bents since they are competitors.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

I just have a bit of hope that TW-Bents will come out with an affordable lowracer recumbent for the U.S. market. I think it is crazy that we have to pay so much for such a simple machine. TW-Bents is the only company that can start the trend towards lower prices. Also, the cute lowracer is a nice compact design that makes me want one. It isn't too low and I like the seat angle.

You can get a slightly used Challenge dual 20" quasi-lowracer for $1200-$1800. Much better bike probably not much more $$$ if you shop around.

A guy on BROL is selling steel Nocom lowracer clone frames for around $300.

A guy on BROL is selling steel Nocom lowracer clone frames for around $300.

No good. Danielmramos wants the frame for free plus a discount on all the parts. Maybe he should price out the parts necessary to do a frame build-up. No fair using used parts, and be sure to include shipping charges in the overall cost.

You can get a slightly used Challenge dual 20" quasi-lowracer for $1200-$1800. Much better bike probably not much more $$$ if you shop around.

A guy on BROL is selling steel Nocom lowracer clone frames for around $300.

Are you serious, that is a great deal. Frankly I would rather put it together myself. Would you please give me a link.

Thanks.

No good. Danielmramos wants the frame for free plus a discount on all the parts. Maybe he should price out the parts necessary to do a frame build-up. No fair using used parts, and be sure to include shipping charges in the overall cost.

Ah sarcasm. I love sarcasm myself; however, it doesn't help address the issue. Uh no. I do not want things for free. If I wanted that I would be satisfied wtih a yellow bike. Actually I am the type of person that believes in a quality product put together by a good manufacturer. I believe that is the best solution for most people. I also want the manufacturers of bents to be truly successful. Too many have come and gone over the years. Obviously something is wrong with the industry. Bents have been around long enough now that they should be way more common than uprights. Here in Austin there is only one dedicated bent dealer. I bought a BikeE from him years ago. He is a great guy and knows his stuff, but he runs things out of the back of his house. I wish he were so successful that he could open up a nice visible show to attract more clients; however, I believe that the prices of bents keep him from growing much. Things need to become more mainstream and affordable while increasing quality and service. Those are not unattainable goals. Hey, if upright bike shops can do it, then bent shops should be able to do it too. It kills me that such is not the case.

http://www.recumbentblog.com/archives/2006/11/gallery_zach_ka_1.html

Here is a page that talks about a lowracer that was produced by a company called earth cycles. The name of the model was the earth cycles sunset lowracer. You will notice that the design elements are pretty much the same as the Gallop cute lowracer except for the fact that the Gallop uses a large chainring while the sunset uses a mid drive. It is very interesting as it provides insight as to why it is TW-Bents produced such a machine in the configuration that they did. They were not the first to think of it.

Ah sarcasm...

Hey, I'm not the one who turned this thread into a whine about how much recumbents cost. If you can't afford it, get a job!

Come on now, you can come up with a better response than "get a job" or "[you want it] for free" (because obviously I am a homeless guy that heard about recumbents and this forum from the other people on the street ;-). Those kinds of comments really do not help at all. That is also some assumption on your part about my state of employment. I was making some real observations about the perceived cost of production of a product we are all concerned with. If we never think out of the box and simply accept the assumptions that are deemed general knowledge, then things will never change. I would appreciate it if you would respond with more subject appropriate comments instead of simply writing off any discussion about points raised or responses to questions posed.

I was answering GreenGrasshoppr's question:
Why do you want more people riding recumbents?

If a question is posed I think it is valid to answer it.

Are you serious, that is a great deal. Frankly I would rather put it together myself. Would you please give me a link.

Thanks.

Here is the link (http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=33234).

Hey thanks, I will keep my eye on that thread. Gosh it doesn't look like that frame design has any room for adjustment at all. It certainly is low though. One person commented on the fact that it doesn't look like a stiff design. I will certainly keep up with it.

Thanks

Gosh it doesn't look like that frame design has any room for adjustment at all.

You are quite correct. There is NO adjustment at all. I have ridden that bike. It is, of course, too long for me; I was just trying it out. Please re-read all of the posts in that BROL thread, especially the "critical" ones. There is definitely something to them. That's all I will say here. If you wish to discuss something privately, let me know.

I just noticed that an Agenda midracer (RecumbentUSA) is listed on Ebay. 34 lbs. seems heavy.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-2008-RECUMBENT-BIKE-AGENDA-Ultra-Light_W0QQitemZ300155489408QQihZ020QQcategoryZ106949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Come on now, you can come up with a better response than "get a job" or "[you want it] for free" (because obviously I am a homeless guy that heard about recumbents and this forum from the other people on the street ;-). Those kinds of comments really do not help at all. That is also some assumption on your part about my state of employment. I was making some real observations about the perceived cost of production of a product we are all concerned with. If we never think out of the box and simply accept the assumptions that are deemed general knowledge, then things will never change. I would appreciate it if you would respond with more subject appropriate comments instead of simply writing off any discussion about points raised or responses to questions posed.

I was answering GreenGrasshoppr's question:
Why do you want more people riding recumbents?

If a question is posed I think it is valid to answer it.

My "get a job" comment was tongue-in-cheek, because if you have a job and want a bent, you can afford it. If you're not willing to pay the price, the options are to make your own, buy used, or forget bents and get a cheap upright. If you want to think outside the box, design your own inexpensive bent. Anybody can whine, few can do.

It's only valid to answer a question after it's been asked. GreenGrasshopper responded you your comment, not the other way around. You inserted price into the thread with this:


I just have a bit of hope that TW-Bents will come out with an affordable lowracer recumbent for the U.S. market. I think it is crazy that we have to pay so much for such a simple machine.

That nocom clone frame will only fit a person of a very specific size. no adjustment and no way to slouch down in the seat any further forward if you are a bit short. I would also expect it to be a very flexy frame and not last very long.

It's only valid to answer a question after it's been asked.

Wow, and all this time I thought when a person that ended a sentence in a question mark '?' was asking a question. Thanks for clearing that up. Boy, I can just see the pie on my elementary school teachers face now. Oh, and thank you for clarifying your rules of valid responses for this forum. I will be sure to check with you in the future to make sure responses posted in the future are valid. Come to think of it, you have got a busy day ahead of you checking all the other threads on this forum for valid responses and those nasty deceitful question marks. You better get cracking.

First of all I don't think that anything should cost more than it is worth sheerly for the novelty of the product. I work too hard to give people my money without it being warranted. I believe that a quality product deserves a reasonable and uninflated price.

Do you feel 100% comfortable with buying a product mass produced in a third world sweatshop? I don't.

Not to mention the environmental damage the bicycle industry has caused in places like Taiwan...

I respect "1st world" builders enough to pay them a fair price for their quality hard work, which is also done in an environmentally-regulated country.

That nocom clone frame will only fit a person of a very specific size. no adjustment and no way to slouch down in the seat any further forward if you are a bit short. I would also expect it to be a very flexy frame and not last very long.

Agreed about the fit and flex. Buying a frame for less than $300 from a homebuilder has its disadvantages for sure.

I could think of a couple quick ways to stiffen up that frame a lot without a massive weight increase, but personally I would put my energy into buying a used production bent in good condition at a good price. I bought three Challenge bents used this year for about 40% to 60% of their new prices.

Yes, maybe I'm being picky, but I don't believe your claim that you were merely responding to GreenGrasshopper's post when in fact your post was 13 hours before his. Are you clairvoyant? Or just trolling?

Do you feel 100% comfortable with buying a product mass produced in a third world sweatshop? I don't.

Not to mention the environmental damage the bicycle industry has caused in places like Taiwan...

I respect "1st world" builders enough to pay them a fair price for their quality hard work, which is also done in an environmentally-regulated country.

Gosh, there is a big misunderstanding about the quality of bikes produced in Taiwan. Most people do not know that a majority of the higher end bikes are built in Taiwan. Salon had an article about how many of the U.S. and European companies simply buy product from Taiwan and rebrand it and assemble it in their home country. This is true for most bikes bought in the U.S. Taiwan is the bicycle building big muscle in the world. Much in the same way our computers are built over there so are the bicycles. I think recumbents built in Taiwan are a relatively new thing; however, they are not cheap knockoffs. Those guys do some quality design and testing. I am not saying that the Taiwanese bents are going to be the best out there, but they are going to be pretty darn good. They will probably be better than anything else at their price point. All of the reviews that I have read have been favorable. I highly doubt that these bikes are built in sweat shops; however, I do not know anything about their environmental impact. They will have a positive impact on the environment here if more people start riding them.

Yes, maybe I'm being picky, but I don't believe your claim that you were merely responding to GreenGrasshopper's post when in fact your post was 13 hours before his. Are you clairvoyant? Or just trolling?

Its not a claim. Look at the order of the posts. Hey, I think I see some of those pesky question marks --> ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ?

I never said that Taiwan-made bicycles are low quality. Some are low quality, some are average, some are high quality (it really depends on who is outsourcing what, and for which market).

I can't find the article, but I remember reading about how the lack of regulation in Taiwan, China and other low-wage/low-cost outsourcing countries enables manufacturers to use paints and other chemicals that would be forbidden in North America or Western Europe due to their high toxicity.

Did you see in the news the recent lead painted toy recalls? Remember the toxic toothpaste? Or the petfood additive that killed thousands of pets?

The Walmart way of thinking comes at the price of quality and safety. It also kills local "1st world" economies when whole industries are outsourced to less regulated, cheap labour countries.

Besides, even if you had a 50$ recumbent frame, you still have to put components on it... and if you ride as much as I do, you will definitely need quality parts, which don't come cheap.

I suspect that if there was such a thing as a 200$ recumbent, the vast majority would gather dust & rust after a few weeks of use, after their owners get bored of riding un-tuned, rickety machines...


Gosh, there is a big misunderstanding about the quality of bikes produced in Taiwan. Most people do not know that a majority of the higher end bikes are built in Taiwan. Salon had an article about how many of the U.S. and European companies simply buy product from Taiwan and rebrand it and assemble it in their home country. This is true for most bikes bought in the U.S. Taiwan is the bicycle building big muscle in the world. Much in the same way our computers are built over there so are the bicycles. I think recumbents built in Taiwan are a relatively new thing; however, they are not cheap knockoffs. Those guys do some quality design and testing. I am not saying that the Taiwanese bents are going to be the best out there, but they are going to be pretty darn good. They will probably be better than anything else at their price point. All of the reviews that I have read have been favorable. I highly doubt that these bikes are built in sweat shops; however, I do not know anything about their environmental impact. They will have a positive impact on the environment here if more people start riding them.

Its not a claim. Look at the order of the posts. Hey, I think I see some of those pesky question marks --> ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ?

I'll type slowly so you can keep up.

Post #1 by you, asking if anybody had more info on the bike. (Unlikely, since none of us are associated with Interbike.)
Post #2 comment by Greg
Post #3 comment by me
Post #4 by YOU, dated 9/25/07 at 11:53 AM

...I think it is crazy that we have to pay so much for such a simple machine.
Post #5 by GG dated 9/25/07 at 12:48 PM (13 hours later)

Why do you want more people riding recumbents?

So it sure looks to me like you were the first one to bring up the price/affordability question, not as a response to GG's comment as you claim. In fact, he quoted your comment in his post. The question mark is there, but only after you posted your answer. Please tell me how that works. Somehow you knew what he was going to ask 13 hours before he asked it? Your claim, and in fact all of your posts, are setting off my troll-o-meter.

I agree. The trolling has been exposed. I never thought my posts would expose a troller (shhh, he will hear). Wow, and your confession came without much coercion. Amazing!

Now, do you mind? (whoops another question mark)

I never said that Taiwan-made bicycles are low quality. Some are low quality, some are average, some are high quality (it really depends on who is outsourcing what, and for which market).

I can't find the article, but I remember reading about how the lack of regulation in Taiwan, China and other low-wage/low-cost outsourcing countries enables manufacturers to use paints and other chemicals that would be forbidden in North America or Western Europe due to their high toxicity.

Did you see in the news the recent lead painted toy recalls? Remember the toxic toothpaste? Or the petfood additive that killed thousands of pets?

The Walmart way of thinking comes at the price of quality and safety. It also kills local "1st world" economies when whole industries are outsourced to less regulated, cheap labour countries.

Besides, even if you had a 50$ recumbent frame, you still have to put components on it... and if you ride as much as I do, you will definitely need quality parts, which don't come cheap.

I suspect that if there was such a thing as a 200$ recumbent, the vast majority would gather dust & rust after a few weeks of use, after their owners get bored of riding un-tuned, rickety machines...

I agree with you. Quality components are paramount. Wouldn't it be cool if bike companies were able to set up build to order online store websites? It would be great to be able to order the frame alone, or custom choose your component set from the manufacturers selection. Computer companies have websites like that. I bet the high end buyers would rather buy the bare minimum and tweak it out themselves anyway.

As far as the lead paint and other recalls goes, I thought that was mainland China not Taiwan. I could be mistaken though.

It would be great to be able to order the frame alone

Several companies do it already. I ordered my X-Low as a framekit directly from Optima.

You can also get framekits from HP Velotechnik, M5, I.C.E., and maybe others...


As far as the lead paint and other recalls goes, I thought that was mainland China not Taiwan. I could be mistaken though.

China was hit by recalls, but I've read about dodgy stuff made in Taiwan (although there is an increasingly vocal environmental movement growing there) and I've seen suspect manufacturing practices in Vietnam.

As a sidenote, Bentrideronline just reported that Optima opened a factory in Taiwan and that their prices would drop, so there you have it.

Greenspeed have a custom build interactive pdf. under their custom shop link from memory. You select frame, paint, wheels, brakes drive components etc.
Trikes only though

Several companies do it already. I ordered my X-Low as a framekit directly from Optima.

You can also get framekits from HP Velotechnik, M5, I.C.E., and maybe others...



China was hit by recalls, but I've read about dodgy stuff made in Taiwan (although there is an increasingly vocal environmental movement growing there) and I've seen suspect manufacturing practices in Vietnam.

As a sidenote, Bentrideronline just reported that Optima opened a factory in Taiwan and that their prices would drop, so there you have it.

The crazy thing is that their frame kits still cost more than almost all upright bikes and most bents themselves. I am sure TW-Bents & RB permormer could provide a comparable product at a much more competetive price. I will check it out though.

Ok, I checked them out and none of those companies offer lowracer frames. I was kind of surprised, but M5 states clearly that they will sell frames for everything but their lowracers and tandems. Even then the price of the frame including shipping and exchange rates makes it pretty pricey for just a frame. I will do some more research, but I wouldn't be surprised if the offering from Taiwan ends up being competetive as a complete bike with the frame kits from those other companies.

I read somewhere that lowracers are sold in very low numbers, compared to other more comfortable models.

This would explain why they are generally more expensive.

Same crap with the car industry. Can you name a car company that sells a sports car that is cheaper than its non-sport models?