"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - If Floyd Landis is so honest and innocent then......

I find it amusing that the doper FL continues to bleat his innocence. I am in the process of reading his book, and find it amazing how in chapter 6 he makes it rather clear that he decided to hide is potential hip replacement from Phonak describing himself as "damaged goods." That's with an incredibly lucrative contract paying him $600K for the 2005 season. Of course he explains how much he respects and likes the team manager, Andy Rihs, but apparently not enough to be forthright with him. He then states in regards to the minor surgical procedure on his hip, "To keep the surgery a secret, Brent made me a fake removable cast for my perfectly fin right ankle. If anyone asked why I was on crutches, the story was that I had twisted my ankle, and that I'd be fine in a couple of days."

Gee, he doesn't lie that much. LOL. In conclusion, the alleged man is a lying sack of $hit, and I hope he never appears at the start line of another bicycle race in his miserable, lying life! Now do you want to know how I really feel about this? :D

I find it amusing that the doper FL continues to bleat his innocence. I am in the process of reading his book, and find it amazing how in chapter 6 he makes it rather clear that he decided to hide is potential hip replacement from Phonak describing himself as "damaged goods." That's with an incredibly lucrative contract paying him $600K for the 2005 season. Of course he explains how much he respects and likes the team manager, Andy Rihs, but apparently not enough to be forthright with him. He then states in regards to the minor surgical procedure on his hip, "To keep the surgery a secret, Brent made me a fake removable cast for my perfectly fin right ankle. If anyone asked why I was on crutches, the story was that I had twisted my ankle, and that I'd be fine in a couple of days."

Gee, he doesn't lie that much. LOL. In conclusion, the alleged man is a lying sack of $hit, and I hope he never appears at the start line of another bicycle race in his miserable, lying life! Now do you want to know how I really feel about this? : D

no.

no.

correct.

The flags start going up when people react too strongly about things. I suspect some projecting going on.

Let's face it, lying to an employer isn't that rare. If you haven't done it, I believe your sainthood is on the way.

Be careful to make accusations you can stand up to.

Easy up there on the high horse.

While we're on the subject of ad-hoc accusations... I hear FL has two Celine Dion CD's. Hang the SOB!! ;)

If only learning the truth of the matter was as simple as you make it out to be. What else do your revelations tell you about the world? Never mind...I don't really care.

no.

+1

Yikes. 9 replies and only one mildly supportive of the skydiver. :eek: ;)

None of it matters. Right or wrong, innocent or guilty, Floyd's done. NEXT!

Yikes. 9 replies and only one mildly supportive of the skydiver. :eek: ;)

skydive does make a good point- a leopard cant hide his spots. to someone of a truly upright character, the idea to lie would simply never arise. let alone to fabricate a story and sport a fake cast- all to deceive and hide a flaw.

no one just off and tells a whopper of a lie. there's always a precedent, or a known proclivity toward such behavior way before.

skydive does make a good point- a leopard cant hide his spots. to someone of a truly upright character, the idea to lie would simply never arise. let alone to fabricate a story and sport a fake cast- all to deceive and hide a flaw.

no one just off and tells a whopper of a lie. there's always a precedent, or a known proclivity toward such behavior way before.


or they start with a little lie and get away with it. Then they do it again and gradually become more and more complacent thinking they can get away with a bigger one...and then in the end they make a fool of themselves.

IF skydive is correct then we should disbelieve Landis and his claim of innocence.

Using the same logic (leopard/spots) then we should also generally distrust the LNDD lab that has repeatedly screwed up their protocols (in this case and others) and is the entire basis for the accusations.

We are then left with nothing to trust as both the accusations and the denials are untrustworthy. How then do you determine which liar(s) are lying this time?

Hiding injuries and playing hurt are pretty common things in sports, he saying "I'm fine, put me in coach". Athletes do not like to give up their spot for fear of losing their spot for good. There is a common saying about the NFL meaning "Not For Long", it can be applied to just about every sport.

Let's face it, lying to an employer isn't that rare. If you haven't done it, I believe your sainthood is on the way.

Be careful to make accusations you can stand up to.


Oh so true, but I'm not the incredibly pure person that numbnuts claims he is!

Easy up there on the high horse.

Sorry, being a lying, cheating doper is okay. I apolgize, and would like to know the brand of Koolaid that you swill.

None of it matters. Right or wrong, innocent or guilty, Floyd's done. NEXT!

+1./

IF skydive is correct then we should disbelieve Landis and his claim of innocence.

Using the same logic (leopard/spots) then we should also generally distrust the LNDD lab that has repeatedly screwed up their protocols (in this case and others) and is the entire basis for the accusations.

We are then left with nothing to trust as both the accusations and the denials are untrustworthy. How then do you determine which liar(s) are lying this time?

If the case was based only on the labs and their obvious issues, Floyd would have been vindicated. However, when you have an A and B test that come in positive and then a test that has not been considered to be one in doubt show obvious exogenous testosterone, then methinks there is a raging fire where there was simply smoke. Anyway, the list of dopers who proclaim their innocence includes virtually everyone caught. I have a lot of respect for David Millar - he faced the truth like a man unlike Vino, and Jan, and Hamilton, etc., etc., etc. Oh and yes, numbnuts, er ah... Landis.

skydive does make a good point- a leopard cant hide his spots. to someone of a truly upright character, the idea to lie would simply never arise. let alone to fabricate a story and sport a fake cast- all to deceive and hide a flaw.

no one just off and tells a whopper of a lie. there's always a precedent, or a known proclivity toward such behavior way before.

OK, let's do one of those "here comes reality" things. Everybody lies. You lie, I lie, the first thing a kid learns to say is a lie. The person who said "Native Americans didn't have a word for 'lie'" was lying. The first time you wanted to get in a girl's knickers, you lied, probably many times.

Let's place any of you of a truly upright character in front of a six hundred thousand dollar decision, and see if you don't fake an ankle cast.

Not saying FL did it, or didn't, just saying that a previous lie means all he speaks are lies is bull**** of the highest order. With that path of logic, I can say you doped Landis in his sleep.

The first time you wanted to get in a girl's knickers, you lied, probably many times.

.

Not me, but I am a sexual dynamo.

None of it matters. Right or wrong, innocent or guilty, Floyd's done. NEXT!

+2.

Sorry, being a lying, cheating doper is okay. I apolgize, and would like to know the brand of Koolaid that you swill.

why don't you lay off the little blue pills, and go back to the bingo hall.

nobody here is interested.



btw: Kool-Aid is a brand.

Already, this thread has become a trainwreck, or rather, a bikewreck.
http://www.thirdrate.com/misc/hot-off-the-digi-cam.jpg

Already, this thread has become a trainwreck, or rather, a bikewreck.
http://www.thirdrate.com/misc/hot-off-the-digi-cam.jpg

Hahahaha! The 70's called. They want their headband back.

The Beastie Boys called, they want their schtick back.

If the case was based only on the labs and their obvious issues, Floyd would have been vindicated. However, when you have an A and B test that come in positive and then a test that has not been considered to be one in doubt show obvious exogenous testosterone, then methinks there is a raging fire where there was simply smoke. Anyway, the list of dopers who proclaim their innocence includes virtually everyone caught. I have a lot of respect for David Millar - he faced the truth like a man unlike Vino, and Jan, and Hamilton, etc., etc., etc. Oh and yes, numbnuts, er ah... Landis.

What else is the case based on other than the lab results? Are you honestly saying that the bizarre testimony by Lemond swung the opinion?

I hate to break it to you, but both the A and B sample tests are from the same lab and suffer from the same trust issues. As for the pure science of the IMRS tests, there is significant doubt about the validity of the LNDD test threshold for exogenous testosterone (1 in 4 markers vs. 1 in 2 for other labs). The whole case hinges upon the lab work, and that lab has lost it's credibility- so much so that the USADA arbitration panel warned them to clean up their act or an future case as messed up as this one might be thrown out. The most important aspect of any lab is it's credibility.

Your rat hole about Millar is simply bizarre- he didn't face the music until overwhelming and credible evidence (his own admission couple with some undeniable evidence of EPO vials) left him absolutely no
deniablity. He was faced with denying what he admitted and look stupid or face the consequences of his doping. There is nothing noble in his role. The rest of your example still have the opportunity to deny, he does not.

Why are you so willing to believe the prosecutors? Forget Landis' denials and defend the trustworthiness of the accusations as they are what matter.

I think the point that can be made is not the "once a liar, always a liar" thing. That's simplistic and unrealistic. What I think is worth taking away is that FL was willing to hide something fairly significant (in terms of professional cycling) from his team and coach--and his reason is maybe even understandable, as someone expressed with the "put me in, coach" comment above.

But when you follow this path, it's pretty easy to make the leap that he also was willing to sacrifice (sell out?) his integrity (or truthfulness or character) with doping--again, the reason might have been rooted in some kind of self-preservation or "put me in, coach" mentality (in an "I'm competitive, I'm fast, I gotta win" kind of way), that on the surface seems almost understandable (or possible). The thing is, it's wrong and against the rules, whatever you think of labs and the rest.

But the path from hiding an injury to further your career, to doping for the same reason, seems like a reasonable leap for the guy (and therefore skydive's original point seems, at it's root, to make at least a little sense), no?

Been watching this for a while. Read the book. I'm no big fan of Floyd.

I'm a retired USAF test pilot and we have this saying: "show me the data". We're real picky about that cuz people don't lose endorsement contracts when the science is bad..they die.

The lab did a sloppy job form start to finish. In a real lab standards are standards, procedures are procedures. And by their own admission they were a tad casual about adhering them. The "data" is thus crap. Period.

Landis's motivations, propensity to tell whoppers, etc etc are all irrelevant.

why don't you lay off the little blue pills, and go back to the bingo hall.

nobody here is interested.



btw: Kool-Aid is a brand.


botto's post is full of win