"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Quarq Power Meter pricing: $2100

http://www.quarq.us/

Read it and weep. Yet another overpriced power meter.

Oh well.

http://www.cyclingscience.org/images/srmda.jpg

Another group who has jumped on the ANT +Sport technology bandwagon:

http://www.ibikesports.com/documents/4Q_New_Product_Announcement.pdf

No thanks. I can get three used SL's for that price, with $300 to spare.

Wow...

You have to buy the CinQo and the Qranium from Quark (or have an ANT +Sport enabled reviever)...

Makes me feel better about my recent purchase...



Even if it is because it doesn't have a stupid name...

Personally waiting for the wireless sharkfin for my wired power taps. Unless someone buys me an SRM, I'll never change now.

Looks like I'll be getting a new rear wheel.

The price of the Quarq wont look to bad once SRM releases the prices of their new wireless stuff. I can almost guarantee that they will cut out the pro and amateur versions and stick with the DA, FSA type and then raise the price to almost $4000.
If this Quarq works well, I will be selling my SRM. Also, from what I understand any of these meters with ANT + Sport can be interchanged, so you could possibly use the new Garmin headunit with the quarq or the new SRM. Everything can be interchanged, so you could possibly get the quarq and the garman (seems to be around $500) for $1600. Right in the realm of the Ergomo and probably much more accurate. Either way I am excited to see how durable this thing will be when they release it in 2008.

The price of the Quarq wont look to bad once SRM releases the prices of their new wireless stuff. I can almost guarantee that they will cut out the pro and amateur versions and stick with the DA, FSA type and then raise the price to almost $4000.
If this Quarq works well, I will be selling my SRM. Also, from what I understand any of these meters with ANT + Sport can be interchanged, so you could possibly use the new Garmin headunit with the quarq or the new SRM. Everything can be interchanged, so you could possibly get the quarq and the garman (seems to be around $500) for $1600. Right in the realm of the Ergomo and probably much more accurate. Either way I am excited to see how durable this thing will be when they release it in 2008.

You know this from your contacts in Jülich?

The price of the Quarq wont look to bad once SRM releases the prices of their new wireless stuff. I can almost guarantee that they will cut out the pro and amateur versions and stick with the DA, FSA type and then raise the price to almost $4000.
If this Quarq works well, I will be selling my SRM. Also, from what I understand any of these meters with ANT + Sport can be interchanged, so you could possibly use the new Garmin headunit with the quarq or the new SRM. Everything can be interchanged, so you could possibly get the quarq and the garman (seems to be around $500) for $1600. Right in the realm of the Ergomo and probably much more accurate. Either way I am excited to see how durable this thing will be when they release it in 2008.

Don't forget you still have to bump the price by 15% for your new cranks...

$2100 is not as bad as I was thinking.

I am a little miffed at the crank options...

FSA Team Issue
FSA Krono TT
Truvativ Rouleur Carbon (SRAM)
Cannondale Hollowgram
Specialized S-Works Carbon
Rotor Agilis
Sibex Sports
Track - To be determined

1195 is not bad though...if it works!!!!

http://www.quarq.us/

Read it and weep. Yet another overpriced power meter.

Oh well.

I had high hopes of something less than 1k. I'm severely disappointed. Ibike here I come.

edit: Ibike now can talk to garmin 705 and does heartrate: http://www.ibikesports.com/documents/4Q_New_Product_Announcement.pdf

also, I know white is now in, but I like my computer to be black. They have black now.

I had high hopes of somthing less than 1k. I'm severely disappointed. Ibike here I come.

edit: Ibike now can talk to garmin 705 and does heartrate: http://www.ibikesports.com/documents/4Q_New_Product_Announcement.pdf

also, I know white is now in, but I like my computer to be black. They have black now.

You should check if the iBike can read from the Cinqo spider. That might be an option if you want a power meter that actually measures power at some point... :D


I think the pricing of the Cinqo and Qranium is fair. In an August press release, Quarq said:


Quarq’s goal is to make power measurement and data acquisition ubiquitous on racing bikes. “Our first order of business is to build a great power sensor and data system. Then we will go to work on bringing the technology to a wider audience. I think there are some big things in store for the cycling community on this front, and Quarq will help drive the technology forward.”

So I think they have a plan to bring some cheaper stuff to the market in the future.

I had high hopes of something less than 1k. I'm severely disappointed. Ibike here I come.

edit: Ibike now can talk to garmin 705 and does heartrate: http://www.ibikesports.com/documents/4Q_New_Product_Announcement.pdf

also, I know white is now in, but I like my computer to be black. They have black now.

I'll sell you my iBike cheap, complete with several oversized handlebar mounts and spare batteries. I can't handle this dopey thing. Maybe you can. PM me if interested. Used like once. Brand new.

Powertap here I come.

I'll sell you my iBike cheap, complete with several oversized handlebar mounts and spare batteries. I can't handle this dopey thing. Maybe you can. PM me if interested. Used like once. Brand new.

Powertap here I come.

I had high hopes for your ibike experience.... :(

I had high hopes for your ibike experience.... :(

To much F-ing around with the unit. Forget it. Pcad is a lace'em up and go kinda dude. In fact I have grave doubts that I'll ever be patient enough to download PM data into a computer program that requires me to load Windows up on my Mac.

I want to ride my bicycle faster. I have no interest whatsoever in Sports Science. What I need is a coach to say 'do this ahole'. Then I can say 'OK' or 'F yourself'.

You should check if the iBike can read from the Cinqo spider. That might be an option if you want a power meter that actually measures power at some point... :D

Cinqo doesn't measure power. It measures impedance across a strain guage, and calculates power.

I'm not taking away from the deserved dig on the ibike -- as its calculation method is highly variable.

Cinqo doesn't measure power.

Give me an example of a device (not necessarily bike related) that does measure power, then.

I have hopes (because I'm a nerd like that) that they'll release a Quarg for MTB stuff. Then, I could buy one of the Garmin head units, and use it for all 3 of my bikes. That would make me seriously happy.

Then again, I'm not doing anything til they've been proven for at least a couple of months.

Powertap may not be the slickest unit out there, but it has several major advantages:

• It's proven

• It's reasonably priced

• It can be used on multiple bicycles (I have three I'd like to set up for the PT)

My plan now is to get a set of Zipp 404 clinchers with a PT SL rear hub. That will work on a number of fronts. I have a local acquaintance who may be selling a Zipp 404 clincher rear with a PT SL soon. Hard to find them on eBay. I may splurge and by the set with the PT new early next year.

I have hopes (because I'm a nerd like that) that they'll release a Quarg for MTB stuff.

The design of the spider would need to change a lot to work with a triple. Maybe you could run a 2x9 setup with a compact road crank in front?

I probably won't do it, b/c I don't MTB enough to justify that. I'm just saying it would be cool, but yeah, I see your point on the spider.

Here's the cheapest crank-based power setup I can think of:

(1) Cinqo spider, at MSRP ($1200)
(2) Truvativ Rolleur Carbon crank, ebay, $150 (maybe as low as $100, if the triple would work)
(3) Garmin Edge 705, $400 (what they are listed for on internet discounters at Google Product Search)

So that's a full power-measuring setup for about $1750. Compared to the NEW prices of what else is out there, that seems fair to me.

Consider also that this setup gets you a very advanced head unit with full GPS and mapping...

Give me an example of a device (not necessarily bike related) that does measure power, then.

Power can only be calculated from other measurements. The purest form would be a spring scale, ruler, and a clock to give you Nm/s

You can easily fool a Quarq or similar system. If you locked the wheel in place, hung 200 lbs off the forward-facing crank, then tapped the cadence and speed sensors with a magnet, it would read power, even though no power was going through the system at all.

An ibike would be much easier to fool. Just tip it up, blow on it, and tap the sensors with a magnet. So, that's a pretty impure calculation.

It would be pretty tough to fool a spring scale pulling a weight over a distance in a given amount of time.

I'm not faulting Quarq or SRM, but they don't directly measure power.

Power can only be calculated from other measurements. The purest form would be a spring scale, ruler, and a clock to give you Nm/s

You can easily fool a Quarq or similar system. If you locked the wheel in place, hung 200 lbs off the forward-facing crank, then tapped the cadence and speed sensors with a magnet, it would read power, even though no power was going through the system at all.

An ibike would be much easier to fool. Just tip it up, blow on it, and tap the sensors with a magnet. So, that's a pretty impure calculation.

It would be pretty tough to fool a spring scale pulling a weight over a distance in a given amount of time.

I'm not faulting Quarq or SRM, but they don't directly measure power.

Didn't we go through this in the last Quarg thread? It's like saying a spring scale doesn't measure force, it measures deflection. A thermometer doesn't measure temperature, it measures expansion of a fluid...

You can fool any system if you use it outside of it's designed operationel envelope, doesn't make it any more or less a measuring device. It just means it's more or less robust. Lets put your spring scale in a 1500degF oven, it'll give you incorrect readings. Or take the battery out of your stop watch?

Quarg is a POWER METER, it measures power.

Didn't we go through this in the last Quarg thread?

I would say it's because he's a pedantic engineer, but I would be criticized for using a redundant expression.

I would say it's because he's a pedantic engineer, but I would be criticized for using a redundant expression.

:lol:

I have a local acquaintance who may be selling a Zipp 404 clincher rear with a PT SL soon. Hard to find them on eBay. I may splurge and by the set with the PT new early next year.

There's plenty of tubular SL's on eBay.

Didn't we go through this in the last Quarg thread? It's like saying a spring scale doesn't measure force, it measures deflection. A thermometer doesn't measure temperature, it measures expansion of a fluid...

You can fool any system if you use it outside of it's designed operationel envelope, doesn't make it any more or less a measuring device. It just means it's more or less robust. Lets put your spring scale in a 1500degF oven, it'll give you incorrect readings. Or take the battery out of your stop watch?

Quarg is a POWER METER, it measures power.

The proper inquiry is how direct the measurement is and how easily it is confounded. In that regard, iBike is bad while strain gauge powermeters are much better.

Hey, good summary Squint!

Saris stock must have jumped way up.

There's plenty of tubular SL's on eBay.

Clinchers. I want clinchers. I'll be training with these. Tubulars are great for racing, but as everyday tires they are a massive pain in the ass.

Seriously, you don't need two sets of 404's. Either sell the tubies and get the clinchers for all time use, or lace the PT to an Open Pro or similar.

I definitely saw this coming. Do the folks making these products do market research? You'd think sales numbers would suggest against going after Ergomo's scant crumbs tossed from the power market table.

Ouch.

It all depends on the product. Ergomo's aren't popular around here because a couple of people had some bad experiences with them. If the Quarg is a solid unit at $2000, you'll see a lot of them in a few years. That's a huge if, though.

Personally waiting for the wireless sharkfin for my wired power taps. Unless someone buys me an SRM, I'll never change now.


Is that in development?

While it would appear to be a very simple piece of technology, I assumed Cycleops wouldn't make them, to avoid cutting into the market for the 2.4.

I definitely saw this coming. Do the folks making these products do market research? You'd think sales numbers would suggest against going after Ergomo's scant crumbs tossed from the power market table.

Ouch.


I'm confused. What do you think would be more appropriate pricing? A month or two ago, the word was from someone on weightweenies.com that the system would cost as much as a pro SRM.

Seems to me, the Cinqo + Qranium combo is still quite a bit less than an SRM, is wireless (yay!) and is supposed to have tons of features. MSRP for a wireless Powertap is $1500... that's not a whole lot less than the projected price of a Cinqo + Edge 705.

Seriously, you don't need two sets of 404's. Either sell the tubies and get the clinchers for all time use, or lace the PT to an Open Pro or similar.

Interesting. I have zero sets of 404s but two SRMs. In fact, the only Zipp products I own are valve extenders, crack pipe, and a wheel bag. I guess it's just a matter of prioriites. I race on the Ritchey equivalent of Flashpoint 60s and until this season, I rode the same road frame for 8 years.

My friend took delivery of his basic model Velotron today. That thing was around $5700 (less the discount for coaches) + $250 shipping.

I'm converting a bedroom into an altitude room this winter. That won't be cheap either.

Well the whole ANT+Sport idea seems to be the right way to go. Just need to wait for development of receivers to begin (if it ever does), then the setup might not be such a pain.

Is that in development?

While it would appear to be a very simple piece of technology, I assumed Cycleops wouldn't make them, to avoid cutting into the market for the 2.4.

There was a recent inquiry into the interest for this on the wattage list, and it had pretty good support. I don't think it would cut into the market really. I won't consider purchasing a 2.4 wireless since I have two wired hubs - so the only way Saris is getting more money from me is making my wired hubs wireless capable. I think it opens the door to a different part of the market.

I'm not taking away from the deserved dig on the ibike -- as its calculation method is highly variable.

Ibike--I've had many frustrating moments with it, mainly because I think that the current design is underpowered. I'm referring to battery power. I've seen better repeatability with it when I run two batteries in parallel, but the method I use to do so is not infallable, causing resets.

As far as the calculation, I've seen it off at times when the wind offset or the tilt gets hosed (mainly due to lack of battery robustness), but over time these mistakes are buried in the averaged results for a season. If you put in 10,000 miles a year and measure every ride, it seems that it all averages out.

I'm not going to argue about this device, pro or con. I'm just giving you my observations since my purchase of it in the early winter of 2006. It's the only device that suites my needs since I change wheel sets and cranks often.

I'm confused. What do you think would be more appropriate pricing? A month or two ago, the word was from someone on weightweenies.com that the system would cost as much as a pro SRM.

Seems to me, the Cinqo + Qranium combo is still quite a bit less than an SRM, is wireless (yay!) and is supposed to have tons of features. MSRP for a wireless Powertap is $1500... that's not a whole lot less than the projected price of a Cinqo + Edge 705.

?!

Ibike--I've had many frustrating moments with it, mainly because I think that the current design is underpowered.

Can't name my source (though you can probably guess), but supposedly they've got a new guy working on the firmware, and he's lowered the power requirements to a third what they were. -- A

This thread has devolved into a giant mess, so I'll sum it up.

Buy an SRM, sell your PT, and don't bother with Quarg :p

This thread has devolved into a giant mess, so I'll sum it up.

Buy an SRM, sell your PT, and don't bother with Quarg :p

...or a Quarq ;)

Seems to me, the Cinqo + Qranium combo is still quite a bit less than an SRM, is wireless (yay!)

Personally, not a big fan of wireless. I've had enough issues with HRM's, wireless computers, and other not hardwired devices that I'm sticking with the little cables.

Most local PM dudes have PT SL's. They all seem happy with them.

Personally, not a big fan of wireless. I've had enough issues with HRM's, wireless computers, and other not hardwired devices that I'm sticking with the little cables.

On the surface, it seems that the ANT +Sport spec (http://www.thisisant.com) is a more robust version of Bluetooth. Having used Bluetooth devices, once paired, they seem to be very good at maintaining the private area network (PAN) established between the devices unless you get too far out of range. I've never seen interference problems like the kind you're referring to (which "coded" transmitters where suppose to correct, but never seemed to be quite foolproof) between Bluetooth devices or from external spurious emmission interacting with Bluetooth. I'm sure ANT +Sport follows suite.

This thread has devolved into a giant mess, so I'll sum it up.

Buy an SRM, sell your PT, and don't bother with Quarg :p

i'm sure i have less experience than you, however i have been using the edge 305 (HRM + cadence) with great success. upgrading to a 705 (and selling the 305) won't cost too much, and it does provide some additional perks.

i'm fortunate that i already own a bike with one of the compatible cranks (s-works carbon cranks), so there's no additional cost there.

for someone who likes garmin products (i've been a user of their devices since 1999/2000), already has a compatible crankset (i know that's not a huge portion of the market), the Quarq makes a great deal of sense...esp if (big if) the device uses similar methodology to the accuracy-leader, SRM. at $1,200, it seems to promise data accuracy at a much lower cost than the SRM.