Road Cycling - Surly Crosscheck - Club / Group Ride Feedback

I abuse my bikes in a few different ways: club rides, century rides and short tours (~1 week) are the main ones. At the moment I have an 80s steel road bike with a standard double and downtube shifters (weighing in at a svelte 26 lbs :D), which I use for the club & century rides. I keep up reasonably well on the group rides, which usually run around 18mph on the flats. Obviously, I'd like to get stronger and ride faster, but I have no interest or intent in any sort of competitve racing.

I'm getting a little tired of the friction downtube shifters (indexing the DT's never seems to stick) and could go for some lower gearing. I'm also not especially fond of my current touring bike.

Unfortunately, I'm suffering from a surfeit of options. ;) One possibility though is to get a Surly CrossCheck "Complete" (the pre-built one), which if slightly modified may meet all my needs.

I figure if I go with a triple, use 700 x 25c tires, and set the handlebars to a standard road bike configuration (e.g. handlebars about 1" below the saddle), I've got the lower gears and am good for club rides and centuries. Raise the bars, put on 32c's, add a rack and I'm set for short tours.

So, I'm wondering:
• Has anyone used the CrossCheck on moderately fast group rides?
• For these purposes, any recommended upgrades or changes?
• Is it worth putting 105 brifters on, rather than use the barcons?

Feedback from experienced Surly CC users would be greatly appreciated....

I purchased a CC Complete in the middle of last year for a winter bike. You can easily do 18mph on the flats with it in the stock configuration. Having said that...I have upgraded/changed almost all the stock parts. The first thing I changed were the tires. I don't think I would go skinner than 28c on the stock wheels, they are wide. I then changed the crank to a Bontrager Race external bearing triple (why do they put the word "Race" on a triple?), I just liked the range better. I then trashed the rear derailleur in a scuffle, I threw on a Deore I had around. It works better than the stock Tiagra, so I left it. I ended up putting on some ebay scored Tiagra shift/brake levers, they are more handy than bar end shifters and I am impressed with how well they shift and feel. Last month there was a deal on Cane Creek Stratos wheels at Sierra Trading Post, they are now on my Surly. I kept the stock wheels (they are very heavy), put 42c 'cross tires on them and a 11-32 cassette. Now, I can swap tires, adjust the canti's, and ride fireroads/light singletrack. I can throw a rack on and do some light touring. I can also keep up on B group club rides(For A group type rides I have a Cannondale R1000 CAAD8). Somewhere over the winter/early spring, I ditched the stock saddle and put on a 130mm Specialized Avatar. The normal tires I run are 28c Vittora Zaffiros. I guess the only stock parts are the handlebars (I love the shallow, wide bars) and the brakes (they are adequate, but nothing special). I think the CC frame is one of the most versatile frames on the market, however I also have a 1986 Trek Elance 400T that is really a nicer frame and that was much less expensive ($60 yard sale find). The only shortcoming of the Trek is it will only fit 32c tires due to the sidepull brakes. I have been considering swaping the nice parts off of the CC and put on the Trek.
It has about 4500 miles on it.
I hope that helps. :)

So, I'm wondering:
• Has anyone used the CrossCheck on moderately fast group rides?

Yep, I put some Lithion 25s on my CC and can hang with most rides easily.



• For these purposes, any recommended upgrades or changes?


I got the complete and only changed the bar end shifters to 105 STI and put the road tires on. I also put some Pauls Touring Cantis on for maximum stopping power, although the Tektros that come with it are more than adequate.

The CC is such a great bike. For a heavier bike, it's fast, agile, and can be ridden through a brick wall. Hope you get one.

The CC is a great bike and you shouldn't have any problems with group rides. The geometry of a cross-style bike is a little different, but I don't mind it. I had to replace both the stock bottom bracket and wheel hubs after the first riding season because they wore out. The thing's a goddamn tank and it will take any abuse you can give it. I take it on rides I wouldn't dream of taking my Madone on. I've ridden it across both Iowa and Wisconsin on week-long tours without any problems. Put a rack on the back and panniers and you can outfit for small self-substained tours. Great all-around bike.
Hjeand

I think I have the '05 cc ... maybe '04. Only changes from stock were a Brooks saddle and a stem with more rise (still have about 3" of drop from the saddle). I've ridden it on mtb trails, used it for commuting with fenders and group rides with 18+ averages and low/mid 20 pace lines. That's over 12,000 miles on the compact Tiagra components. The Alex DV-15 rims have a mfg recommendation for 23-32mm tires and I've ridden both extremes on it. After 10k miles I was having regular spoke issues/breakage.

It really shined as a commuter and on rough roads with wider tires, but was adequate with 23's on group rides. I didn't have any issues with the barcons, though it is very noticeable when I shift back from my Fuji cf now. The stock Tektro cantis were always hard to adjust and get to not rub or squeal and were probably the stock component I had the most issue with. The compact gearset gave me plenty of gear for climbing, but if you were doing loaded touring I could see wanting lower gears.

A very versatile bike. Doesn't get as much ride time now that I have a Fuji carbon and all I do is group rides, but I'm keeping it hoping to be able to start commuting again.

I think I have the '05 cc ... maybe '04. Only changes from stock were a Brooks saddle and a stem with more rise (still have about 3" of drop from the saddle). I've ridden it on mtb trails, used it for commuting with fenders and group rides with 18+ averages and low/mid 20 pace lines. That's over 12,000 miles on the compact Tiagra components. The Alex DV-15 rims have a mfg recommendation for 23-32mm tires and I've ridden both extremes on it. After 10k miles I was having regular spoke issues/breakage.

It really shined as a commuter and on rough roads with wider tires, but was adequate with 23's on group rides. I didn't have any issues with the barcons, though it is very noticeable when I shift back from my Fuji cf now. The stock Tektro cantis were always hard to adjust and get to not rub or squeal and were probably the stock component I had the most issue with. The compact gearset gave me plenty of gear for climbing, but if you were doing loaded touring I could see wanting lower gears.

A very versatile bike. Doesn't get as much ride time now that I have a Fuji carbon and all I do is group rides, but I'm keeping it hoping to be able to start commuting again.

don't neglect your CC. it loves you, and deserves to be loved! i'm gonna hop on mine today after work. :D

Hrm

It does sound a little like if I emphasize the touring aspect, I could compromise some of the fast / club ride aspects. Perhaps a lighter wheelset would do the trick there -- not necessarily cheap, but definitely more convenient than getting another bike. ;) Component quality would be less than on a $1700+ road bike, but those bits can be upgraded as they wear out.

But in terms of geometry: it looks like the CC 54 is a little different, but not much, than my current bike. Best guess is:

Top tube is 10mm longer
Fork rake/offset is 15mm less (though I may be measuring my fork wrong)
Wheelbase is 20mm longer
BB drop is 5 mm less
The tubes are a little thicker

Is any of this actually going to make a noticeable difference when doing a club ride?

The geometry is for a cyclocross bike. I didn't notice it much until I got my Madone and now I can really tell when I've been riding the Madone for a while and then go back to the CC. Not bad, just different. The CC has a raised BB for example.
The most important thing I can stress is to ride the CC before buying it. The sizing is off. If you ride a 56 cm standard geometry road bike you'll probably want a 54 CC since they "run big".
Something else to consider is that you can buy the frameset from any Quality Parts bike store. (They can order it for you.) I think the frameset is like $400 w/o any deals/discounts you can get. If you have the time, money and ability you could build a really nice bike up from the frame.
Hjeand

Ditto what everyone else says. I hope you get the CC and love it as much as I do. I've had my CrossCheck almost 5 years now. I've used it for road races and criteriums without any trouble. I regularly did 100+ mile club rides on it and I never complained.

I probably would never known any different had I not purchased a Serotta CDA road bike last year. Now the CC feels extremely awkward to ride on long rides. It's not that it's too heavy; the geometry feels squirrelly compared to purpose build road bike geometry. I guess the tubing is different too.

Now after 5 years and a 10-speed upgrade, the CC has morphed into my dedicated cyclocross racing bike (go figure) :D and my around town comuter.

"Hrm" again ;)

So just to be clear... Since it's a cross bike, I take it the rider has a slightly higher center of gravity, so this plus some other geometry features makes the steering a little more responsive. I assume this also adds a little bit to arm & shoulder fatigue on 100+ mile rides.

Impact on efficiency would be minimal though, as that depends more on things like tire width, tire pressure and wheel weight.

"Hrm" again ;)

So just to be clear... Since it's a cross bike, I take it the rider has a slightly higher center of gravity, so this plus some other geometry features makes the steering a little more responsive. I assume this also adds a little bit to arm & shoulder fatigue on 100+ mile rides.

Impact on efficiency would be minimal though, as that depends more on things like tire width, tire pressure and wheel weight.

Your satisfaction with the bike will probably depend more on what you're accustomed to than choices of other bikes currently available. Another thing to consider is the fit of the bike. Whatever you get, make sure it fits you. A proper fit is the most important thing for comfort on long rides.

For me, the CC is more comfortable for 100mi rides than my Cannondale. I don't know exactly why, but it is nice to put on a rack and a set of small (Nashbar Daytrekker) panniers for extra waterbottles and sandwiches if you are going to be out riding unsupported for 8 - 10 hours.

My my, threads get buried rather quickly 'round here... ;)

Did a test ride on a Surly 52 -- I think it's too big. Will work with the LBS on getting in a 50. If it fits, I will likely pick it up, and mod a few bits here and there.

Anyone know if you need to swap out the crank and/or front derailleur in order to put a triple on? Some sources say yes, others say no....

Does the CC come with a double now? Mine came with a tripple that I swapped out for a double. There could be potentially a lot of work to add a tripple, but you should be able to "get buy" with only chaning the crank.
You thought the 52 cm was too big? Was the cockpit to long? The biggest difference with the CC geometry is that it has a huge cockpit compared to standover height. I had to change my stem to an 80 mm to get the cockpit smaller. Still, I feel short on the bike -- I ride so much higher on my Madone.
Hjeand

I hope some of you bozos are right, as I put down a deposit on the CC today. ;)

The stock bike has 2 rings on it, but it looks like it has threaded holes for a 3rd / granny. The LBS dude thinks they might have to change the BB.

Cockpit was OK on the 52, maybe a little long, but not outrageous. It was more that I felt like I was 300 feet off the ground or something. Saddle was probably too high. I just think I'd be a little more comfortable on the smaller bike.

Oddly enough the geometry on the CC 52 is about the same as on a Lemond Sarthe 51, which was recommended by a shop after riding the 53. Slightly longer wheelbase & slightly higher BB drop. See attached PDF for full-on geometry geekiness....

Does the CC come with a double now? Mine came with a tripple that I swapped out for a double. There could be potentially a lot of work to add a tripple, but you should be able to "get buy" with only chaning the crank.
You thought the 52 cm was too big? Was the cockpit to long? The biggest difference with the CC geometry is that it has a huge cockpit compared to standover height. I had to change my stem to an 80 mm to get the cockpit smaller. Still, I feel short on the bike -- I ride so much higher on my Madone.
Hjeand

Mine's a 2005 and it came with the 48/36 double.

The Beast

http://angryslob.com/bike/DSCN0377.jpg

I'm getting the grey one. Methinks it looks prettier than the black. :p

Are cross handle bars supposed to be at that angle? I prefer that the drops be parallel to the ground (more or less), especially since I'm going to start out with the barcons.

The stock crank will accept a 3rd ring, but your LBS is correct, it will need a wider BB. I ended up picking up a new takeoff triple (w/BB) on ebay for less than the new ring & BB. The front derailleur will work OK with a triple as long as you are running barends in friction mode. The shifting will not be anything to be proud of, though. I had to buy a triple front derailleur when I went to indexed shifting. If you just want lower gearing, you could swap out the stock cassette for a 11 or 12-32. You may put the bars at any angle you desire or are comfortable with, I like parallel too.

The Crosscheck rocks, you won't be disappointed.

Are you having the shop put the triple on before you pick it up? You might wanna try it with the double before switching it out. You might like it. :D

I think Soma has a similar option. You might wanna look at the Jamis Quest too.

I think Soma has a similar option. You might wanna look at the Jamis Quest too.
Too late!!! :D



Are you having the shop put the triple on before you pick it up? You might wanna try it with the double before switching it out. You might like it. :D
Well, I already have a 50-39, 12-28 on my current steel roadie. That gearing is excellent for flat rides, but for long and hilly rides, not so much. Yes, I am a wuss. :) But I actually like to climb, I just hate to mash and am very protective of my knees.

Plus, I do plan to tour on this bike at some point, so even if I don't need it for the road stuff I might as well throw the granny on now.

CC owners, I'm curious what the weight of your builds are so I can compare to my new bike. I just got a steel Lemond Poprad with discs and it weighed 21.5lbs. The non-disc version was 20.2lbs.

I just got a Cross-Check the other day. Grey. :) Love it, though the stock Salsa bars are too wide and too weird for my liking. I chucked in an old pair of Cinelli 64's, put in a 120mm stem (105mm too short for me) and put in an old Suntour seatpost and Rolls saddle. Good as gold! Even went bush bashing up the local pine forest on it. No worries!

CC owners, I'm curious what the weight of your builds are so I can compare to my new bike. I just got a steel Lemond Poprad with discs and it weighed 21.5lbs. The non-disc version was 20.2lbs.

More than either of those. I've never had mine on the scales, but I'm sure it is heavy.

The stock bike has 2 rings on it, but it looks like it has threaded holes for a 3rd / granny.

Ahh, that's right. It's a compact crank though. I switched out the compact for a true double. You should be okay on it then -- the compact has roughly the same range of gears as a triple would. Anyway, congrats! Welcome to the club. :D
Hjeand

I recently built up a Cross Check into an 8 speed winter training bike using various components. The total weight is slightly over 22#. What a shock on my system compared to my 16# road bike. But it'll be a great winter training bike. All I need to do now is put the Freddy fenders on an I'm all set for another Wisconsin winter.

How come no one mentions the Pacer option? I built up one with 105 for about $1200 and it's great.
Sure it's a pig, but I'm not going to be doing any stage races anytime soon.

Ahh, that's right. It's a compact crank though. I switched out the compact for a true double. You should be okay on it then -- the compact has roughly the same range of gears as a triple would....
Hrm

With a triple (Shimano Tiagra FD4503-F), which has a 22T max capacity, I can set up 48-36-26 at the max. That requires a new BB & FD.

With the stock double (Tiagra FD4500), max cap is 16T. So that's 48-32 max.

Plus, with the stock rear derailleur the max range is 11-27. So to go low, I need to change 1 chainring and the cassette.

Ergo, the lowest I can get with a double is 32T x 27T, 31 gear inches. With the triple and stock cassette, 26T x 25T is 27.7 inches (which is nearly perfect for my uses). With the wider cassette, 26T x 27T is 25". So compared to a typical road triple setup (52-42-30) it's the same, but it doesn't seem to match up to the lower gearing I have in mind. (Again, planning to use this bike for group rides, hilly centuries and touring.)

I guess I could change the chainrings specifically for the tour -- e.g. run a 48-32 most of the time, and for the tour change to a 42-26 or something. However changing the front ring in both setups would mean a big jump and more chain / chainwheel / cassette wear, yes?

What am I missing here? ;)

Second the Pacer option. It would be fine for the kinds of things you are suggesting. And long drop calipers are easier to adjust than cantis!

So, I have taken delivery on the Cross Check. Too early to make a full judgement call, as I'm still dialing in the fit. I went with the triple and slapped slick 25c's on it.

Even without a precise fit, I can already tell that I could ride all day long on this beast. ;)

Is it my imagination, or does it accelerate a little slower than a road bike? The LBS thinks it's the longer wheelbase; I'm figuring it's part wheelbase, part wheels and part tires.

So, I have taken delivery on the Cross Check. Too early to make a full judgement call, as I'm still dialing in the fit. I went with the triple and slapped slick 25c's on it.

Even without a precise fit, I can already tell that I could ride all day long on this beast. ;)

Is it my imagination, or does it accelerate a little slower than a road bike? The LBS thinks it's the longer wheelbase; I'm figuring it's part wheelbase, part wheels and part tires.

Not that I can tell...then again, I'm not much of an accelerator. But it is definitely a different feel from a real, lighter road bike with a shorter wheel base. The amazing thing about my CC is how smooth it rides. The frame just swallows any bumps.

Welcome to the Cult of Surly.

I've decided after owning my Crosscheck complete for a few months now and doing some casual road riding that I want to upgrade my wheelset.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good mid level road wheelseet for the Crosscheck? This would be my first real upgrade to the bike.

I've had the CC for a few weeks, put 250 miles on it, and did 2 group rides so far. But first, a little eye candy....



http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u191/bacciagalupe/surlycx2.jpg


Right now, it is stock except:
• 700 x 25c slick tires, 120 psi
• triple chainrings

In terms of position, it's essentially the same as my older steel road bike, although the CC has a more relaxed seat tube angle.

Both of the group rides were on the slow side (16mph pace; I usually do 18's). One stayed at that pace, the other turned into a hammer-fest 2/3 of the way through.

While I have many positive things to say about the CC, and look forward to riding it into the ground (that should take me 20 years or so :p), unfortunately with my current setup it does not quite cut it for the faster group rides. Subjectively, my impression is that it is significantly more difficult to go faster than 18 mph or so, even in a paceline or in the drops, than when I'm on my road bike.

I'm basically racking my brains to figure out why this is the case. Is it just wheels & tires, or geometry as well? If geometry is holding me back, I'd be fine with using it for slower group rides, centuries and tours (which still is a huge chunk of my riding, by the way).

Anyone care to enlighten me on this score?

ah, sweet ride! i've been curious to see what the "misty mountain gray" actually looks like and it's really nice.

as for it being difficult to keep an 18mph pace, it will just take some practice. remember, it's really a heavier CX bike with - if it's like mine - a CX chain ring set as opposed to, say, a more roadie compact type deal. my CC is definitely a little more work than my 'real' road bike in terms of higher sustained pace, but i got used to it after some time on it.

Damn! I just ordered a black CC. Did I pick the wrong color? :eek:

So, I have taken delivery on the Cross Check. Too early to make a full judgement call, as I'm still dialing in the fit. I went with the triple and slapped slick 25c's on it.

Even without a precise fit, I can already tell that I could ride all day long on this beast. ;)

Is it my imagination, or does it accelerate a little slower than a road bike? The LBS thinks it's the longer wheelbase; I'm figuring it's part wheelbase, part wheels and part tires.

No, not your imagination. The CC is a heavy beast and it takes more to get it going then a lighter road bike does. I was amazed at how fast my Madone accelerated when I first got it since I've been riding the CC so long. Good solid bike, that you can use for almost anything. I'm now toying with the idea of turning mine into a singlespeed for giggles....
Hjeand

No, not your imagination. The CC is a heavy beast and it takes more to get it going then a lighter road bike does. I was amazed at how fast my Madone accelerated when I first got it since I've been riding the CC so long....
Right, but the thing is: my road bike is basically the same weight as the CC. They're both steel frames, around 26 lbs, 36 spoke wheels, and on both the handlebars are about 1" below the saddle. But the CC is slower, especially over 18 mph.

So it either has to be due to geometry, drag, wheels or tires. I'd be curious to figure out which, without having to drop $500 for new wheels.

Great thread!

I just started the process of making my Crosscheck more "road friendly" and decided to get a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elites.

I think the next step is going to be to swap out the stock fork for a road fork. Has anyone in this thread made this type of upgrade to their Crosscheck? I'd love to hear some suggestions or see pictures of what any of you have done regarding this type of modification.

I have a Cross Check. I use two different wheelsets with it. I mostly ride it by myself on crushed gravel trails or on short tours ... and for that I use a stout 48 spoke rear, 40 spoke front with 35c tires (like in the picture).

I've taken it on a couple of club rides and use Fulcrum 7 wheels -- fairly cheap -- and 23c tires. A better, but not great setup for a faster ride.

http://homepage.mac.com/mdewalt/cc.jpg

this dude shows up to the local hammer ride sometimes riding a crosscheck equipped with a 53x16 fixed gear and bullhorn handlebars. he does pretty damn well.

Here's a couple of my personally re-badged CC. Love it. It's my winter/rain/slush/dirt/commute/F-U bike. I rode it all through the PDX winter and it ran awesome, took it on some group rides without any problems keeping up with the carbonheads. It's not the bike. And it feels great to pedal past a guy on a $8k carbon superbike with your downtube shifter equipped steelie. The only pricey part on her is the custom Vanilla stem I had made to deal with my need for a taller seat and a shorter top tube.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2359/2406160005_50a53ce867_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3126/2406160841_93bfa1db0c_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2406162427_fd7c7ff7d7_b.jpg

Link to more pics:
http://www.flickr.com/gp/76636917@N00/a56624

wow, that is a great looking build poprad!

does anyone know if the stock tiagra 9 spd system that comes with the cc complete would be compatible with downtube shifters?

Thanks, I'm pretty happy with it. I can't imagine why the Tiagra stuff wouldn't work with DTs, the indexing spacing should be OK given that the DTs you use are shimano and are for the same # of gears. The derailleur doesn't "index" per se, it's all in the shifter assembly. I had a hard time finding 9sp DT shifters in 105, but caught these DA ones online for like $15.