Advocacy & Safety - Tail Lights: Blinking or Solid?

It seems like most people run their tail lights in blinking mode, as this supposedly draws more attention from drivers. But I wonder if running tail lights on solid (provided they're pretty bright) would be better since drivers would more likely see your bike as a "vehicle". Drivers are able to see other cars, none of whom have blinking tail lights.

I have two tail lights on the back of my bike (Planet Bike Superflash and Cateye LD1000) and have turned them on and parked my bike next to my truck with its lights on. The bike lights on solid are actually a little brighter than my truck's tail lights ('91 Toyota 4 x 4). Admittedly my truck's tail lights aren't the brightest but I would say they're probably close to average. If drivers can see my truck's tail lights, I don't see how they could possibly miss my bike (which also has a rear reflector and reflective material on the seat bag).

Does anyone else think it's possibly safer to run solid tail lights in order to be recognized as a vehicle?

I use both when it is dark outside. At minimum a solid (LD1000) and a flash (PBSF)

I use both in blinkie mode when it is dim outside as my even dim bike/body/reflector provides a solid reference point.

Al

I plan on running the PBSF blinkie on my saddle and the LD1000 solid on the rear rack.

As indicated by the incessant honking from cagers, it seems like my solid 4 led 12v DOT trailer light works perfectly fine for me.

I read something recently that in very dark conditions blinking lights are harded to judge distance. This winter I plan on running both solid and blink. Formerly, I've always put everything on blink.
Current rear setup:
reflector rear rack, loads of reflective tape
cateye LD 1000 on courier bag solid
cateye LD 1000 on seatpost flash
planet bike superflast on rear stay flash
planet bike 3 led on seatpost solid
generic free linkie on helmet flash

The point isn't just that they see you, but that they differentiate you from cars. ...that they do a "what the heck is that" and exercise some caution as they close and pass.

both prolly would be best. personally, i do find the blinkies to be rather noisome though. especially on group rides.

Solid red on rack bag and backpack.

Blinkie on seat.

Lots of reflective tape, just to be sure!

It seems the combination of both solid and blinkie is popular with those who regulary commute in the dark.

I think car drivers recognize a blinkie as most likely being attached to a bicycle. Also, any pedal reflectors or shoe reflectors emphasize the pedalling motion, further indentifying you as a bicycle.

Hey, I always get a wide berth when they pass...

I do not use lights or blinkies during the day. However...I do have a long, dark freeway underpass that I have to go through on my way home...after the time change, I'll turn on my lights before the start of my trip home, since it will be dark by the time I get home...

Does anyone else think it's possibly safer to run solid tail lights in order to be recognized as a vehicle?


On dark roads a really bright flashing tail light is over powering to motorists, which makes it hard for them to see around you. After dark I put the PBSF on steady and run a basic lower power blinkie on flash to still catch attention. In bright city conditions I'd leave it on flash.

both prolly would be best. personally, i do find the blinkies to be rather noisome though. especially on group rides.

I run mine solid if there's going to be a cyclist behind me, otherwise it's on some form of blink/pattern.

Flashing mode in low light (cloudy or dawn/dusk) or the random mode on it if it's dark out. (Flash blinks all the LED's at once, random has one random LED lit up at a time)

On the front I run an LED flashlight on flash mode, and my 15 Watt halogen lights if I need them.

i run solid since it can be seen from a distance

night=steady

day=flashing

I prefer both, but when riding with a group I think solid is preferred by the others in the group. ;)

I run mine steady. It's plenty dark where I normally ride so the steady is more than adequate for visibility. I also find that sometimes blinkies can be painful to look at when they blink really fast in the dark, so I only use the blinking or random modes when I'm on a well-lit city street, where there are more cars and I need to catch their attention.

I have a Mars 3.0 and normally run it on chase mode. It seems to be the best of both worlds. My friend also has a Mars 3.0 and after following him home last night I will remember to never use the flash mode when on a group ride. That thing blinded me numerous times. In chase mode it only turns on 1 LED at a time so it is much less bright overall. When I get another taillight, I will start using one on chase and one on solid at night.

Right now I'm primarily blinking (reelights (http://www.reelight.com/en/)) and as soon as the new wheels for my commuter are built I'll have dynamo-powered steadies.

I think flashing lights are more attention grabbing, while steady lights give better spatial awareness. My coworkers have verified this after seeing me on the way to work, telling me they pick up on the flashing lights from over a mile away when they see me on the right stretch of highway. We start before daylight year 'round. By the steady lights they can see that the thing up ahead is moving. If they didn't know it was me they wouldn't know, by the lights, what it is or that it's a bicycle from that far away, but it's easy to determine that there is definitely something there.

On the back of my helmet is a Mars 3.0 run steady on.

On me is a red LED flashing reflective vest.

On my seat post is a Cateye TL-LD1000, one bank on flash, the other steady on.

On the back of my rear rack (on a bike that has one) is a Cateye TD-LD500 run steady on.

If I'm towing one of my trailers, the above light is omitted in favor of a TL-LD500 on each rear corner of the trailer run steady on.

I've been thinking about rigging up some yellow clearance lights for the sides of the canoe, like the big rig trailers. It's such a long trailer, over 15' total length.:D

this beats LEds by a mile and can be seen from

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c330/Lownslow302/75ccf7be.jpg

Fantastic side visibility, but I don't see anything fore and aft. Wouldn't meet legal requirements 'round these parts.

Cool looking set up, though.:)

this beats LEds by a mile and can be seen from

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c330/Lownslow302/75ccf7be.jpg

Having blue lights on your car (unless youre a firefighter) in NY is illegal.

I'd assume the same for a bike, but hey, it looks sweet.

Fantastic side visibility, but I don't see anything fore and aft. Wouldn't meet legal requirements 'round these parts.

Cool looking set up, though.:)

cars can see it the halo is a lot brighter, thats how dark it is around here as we dont have streetlights

Look up at night the next time a commercial aircraft flies overhead. Strobes to get your attention against the background of stars (or lights on the ground if you were in an aircraft above it), solid lights to aid tracking the object once you detect it. Same lighting principle on tall radio antennas.

Based on these, I think both a flashing and steady lights. Two steady lights might be best so that other vehicles can judge how fast the distance between you and them changes based on how the separation between the two steady lights changes.

Look up at night the next time a commercial aircraft flies overhead. Strobes to get your attention against the background of stars (or lights on the ground if you were in an aircraft above it), solid lights to aid tracking the object once you detect it. Same lighting principle on tall radio antennas.

Based on these, I think both a flashing and steady lights. Two steady lights might be best so that other vehicles can judge how fast the distance between you and them changes based on how the separation between the two steady lights changes.

This makes a lot of sense. I may try my Superflash on solid and the Cateye "pickle" with one bank on solid and the other on flash. The Superflash is actually brighter than the Cateye on solid mode (also brighter when flashing). That may be the best of both worlds -- a lot of solid red light with a smaller amount of flashing red light.

Europe = solid, US = WTF?

I have a light which does a flashing pattern across 5 or so LEDs, where at any given moment at least one LED is on. I guess it could be considered "hybrid". I tend to use this since it both grabs attention and continually shows my position/velocity.

I run a solid light on my bike and a blinkie is mounted at the back of my helmet... the extra height of the blinkie is really atention grabbing since it is well above the levek of most tail lights.

Some research also indicates the blinking lights are like a magnet to impaired drivers who will unconciously target in on the blinking light...which is a really bad thing.

I run a 1 w or 10 w led up front and also run a small white blinkie that I mount to the head tube so it's flashing doesn't bother me

Some research also indicates the blinking lights are like a magnet to impaired drivers who will unconciously target in on the blinking light...which is a really bad thing.
Thankfully that "research" appears to be mostly an urban legend repeated endlessly on the Internet. I've seen one article which proposed that theory with only a specious argument and no credible analysis to support such a "research" conclusion.

I go with both. Solid LED light on the back, blinky on the Saddle and on my courier bag.

I've been told by several drivers that although blinkies are easier to see they are harder to judge distance by, especially in the rain. When in doubt, all of the above!

I have a wide tailight inset in my headrest and an amber xenon flasher on the back. People tend to slow down out of curiousity *grin*.

There may be something to the claim that flashing lights attract the attention of drunks (let's call them what they are). I sat in an intersection one night in a police cruiser, overheads flashing, watching a car coming down the road at 35mph, and waited for him to go around me. He didn't. Plenty of room, should have seen me half a mile down the road, and no other cars in any of the four lanes.

He was just over the legal limit, which was .10 at that time in Ohio.

Ever since I installed my Serfas TL2000 rear light, and have it in blink mode, motorists really want to get by me as quickly as possible during dim light conditions or after dark. It's definitely much more powerful than any other blinkie I've ever had, but after reading a few of these posts, I'm going to use the light's alternating mode which blinks at a faster rate, looks almost like a solid light, but is easier on the eye. I want to get motorists' attention, but not have them zip by me because my light is too annoying.

It seems like most people run their tail lights in blinking mode, as this supposedly draws more attention from drivers. But I wonder if running tail lights on solid (provided they're pretty bright) would be better since drivers would more likely see your bike as a "vehicle". Drivers are able to see other cars, none of whom have blinking tail lights.

I have two tail lights on the back of my bike (Planet Bike Superflash and Cateye LD1000) and have turned them on and parked my bike next to my truck with its lights on. The bike lights on solid are actually a little brighter than my truck's tail lights ('91 Toyota 4 x 4). Admittedly my truck's tail lights aren't the brightest but I would say they're probably close to average. If drivers can see my truck's tail lights, I don't see how they could possibly miss my bike (which also has a rear reflector and reflective material on the seat bag).

Does anyone else think it's possibly safer to run solid tail lights in order to be recognized as a vehicle?

One of each. The blinking one above the solid one with the solid one being the brighter of the two.

This isn't to make like a vehicle though. This is because, while flashing attracts attention, it is hard, in twilight or sunrise conditions to judge distances on a blinking light. The solid light will enable judgement of distance more easily but doesn't attract as much attention and can be mistaken for a roadside mailbox reflector. So, I figure, one of each gets the best of both worlds.

BTW, probably not a good idea, if you go with the one of each idea, to set them next to each other. It's probably best to stack them.

There may be something to the claim that flashing lights attract the attention of drunks (let's call them what they are). I sat in an intersection one night in a police cruiser, overheads flashing, watching a car coming down the road at 35mph, and waited for him to go around me. He didn't. Plenty of room, should have seen me half a mile down the road, and no other cars in any of the four lanes.

He was just over the legal limit, which was .010 at that time in Ohio.

Your one-time experience does not indicate the other motorist was attracted to the blinking light. Drunks have been known to hit all sorts of objects in plain sight, lit and unlit; on the road and off;, off to the left, off to the right and everywhere in between. In fact, stone cold sober motorists have been known to slam into objects that should have been seen from far off. Your anectdote and a few similar are about the extent and quality of the evidence available to substantiate the claim that motorists are attracted to blinking lights like a moth to the flame.

Neither. I like to run my rear light in knightrider/cylon mode. The reason being it's never actually off, but still changes in a way that grabs the attention. It's actually illegal in the UK to have a flashing light on a bike, but i've never heard of anyone getting ticketted for it....

I am still digesting some of the arguments for a solid light on the back. I find it somewhat hard to believe that there can be that much error in an observer's estimate of where the cyclist is located and velocity. Particularly since most people will be viewing the rear blinky from the rear. Given the much longer run times of the blinking light, I would prefer to leave it on that setting.

-G

Your one-time experience does not indicate the other motorist was attracted to the blinking light. Drunks have been known to hit all sorts of objects in plain sight, lit and unlit; on the road and off;, off to the left, off to the right and everywhere in between. In fact, stone cold sober motorists have been known to slam into objects that should have been seen from far off. Your anectdote and a few similar are about the extent and quality of the evidence available to substantiate the claim that motorists are attracted to blinking lights like a moth to the flame.

I sometimes wonder if anyone in here has actually come upon cyclists at night while driving? Yeah, I find bright blinking lights annoying, but I see them from a much farther distance and don't have any problems judging distance. As far as the drunk/impaired thing....I see that claim all the time, but never any actual proof to back it up.

Your one-time experience does not indicate the other motorist was attracted to the blinking light.


I've 23 years experience with drunks - not just this one. But as I said, there may be something to it - I was indicating a possibility that would correlate with my years of experience dealing with with drunks - not stating, "this is how it is."

But then, even if I attempted to make the argument, I doubt I'd sway someone who already has their mind set - so I don't waste my time arguing ;).

Et al -

The reason I used an amber light is because people associate flashing yellow with 'Caution' and it seems to be visible at a greater distance.

I also like to have at least one of each, to get the best of both worlds. I have two standard rectangular red lights, one on my seatpost and one on the back of my helmet. I run the seatpost one on blink, because I figure if it's not blinking, it will tend to get lost in the sea of taillights if I'm in lots of traffic. I prefer the solid blink pattern, because I think that says "caution" more than the others do. (As a car driver, random blink or chasers have sometimes said to me "What the h*ll is that? ... OH, it's a bike!" ;))

That leaves the helmet one to be set on steady for tracking, up higher where it is hopefully easier to distinguish from the car taillights. I have a third that I clip to my belt (my "butt blinkie"), but it's one of those round kinds that only has one pattern, cycling through various kinds of blinking, so I don't have a choice on that one. If you got 'em, use 'em.

I also have a fluorescent jacket (and usually no backpack to hide it), reflective legbands, and reflective material on the panniers, as well as the standard reflectors. In the winter I sometimes run Christmas tree lights on the frame. Last winter I was complimented by two different motorists on the same night for my visibility.

:beer:

I blink for one and only one reason. I'm a cheapskate and batteries last a lot longer in blink mode.

BTW, if you see a bike with lights in Lansing, MI chances are it's me. I'm about the only rider here who even bothers with lights. And I didn't use them either for the first couple years I commuted at night.

I've 23 years experience with drunks - not just this one. But as I said, there may be something to it - I was indicating a possibility that would correlate with my years of experience dealing with with drunks - not stating, "this is how it is."
Would it be safe to say that in your 23 years of experience with drunks/non drunks you can recall one instance of one of them slamming into a vehicle with blinking lights, and countless numbers of them hitting everything else under the sun (or moon)?

The reason I used an amber light is because people associate flashing yellow with 'Caution' ...

As opposed to a different message received from flashing red lights?

When I see blinking amber near the side of the road, I intitially think of construction signs/barrels which often have blinking amber lights around here. LED lights are, for most people, easy to distinguish from other light types and are often associated with bikes but I personally wouldn't run blinking amber alone on the off-chance someone not paying attention could assume I am a road sign and pass to closely or something.

I sometimes wonder if anyone in here has actually come upon cyclists at night while driving? Yeah, I find bright blinking lights annoying, but I see them from a much farther distance and don't have any problems judging distance.
I don't just find them annoying... some high intensity blinkies are pretty damn painful if they're aimed up into the eyes and blinking on dark roads. But I don't really find it hard to judge distance based on the blinking, and it's almost immediately clear it's a cyclist you're looking at. I typically run mine on steady as a courtesy to others mainly because the places I cycle to at night are fairly low traffic areas and on long stretch is pretty straight with no streetlights. Steady will be seen perfectly from a distance by the one or two motorists and the one or two other cyclists that might pass me in the area.

As opposed to a different message received from flashing red lights?


Yea. Red means 'stop'. Yellow means caution - such as a tow truck or other slow moving vehicle. And yes, or a construction hazard in the road. And if they want to think I'm a construction hazard, that's fine, as long as they go around me - which they might be more inclined to do it they think I'm a hazardous spot that might damage their car *grin*. And I have still have the red taillight.

Blinkers or not - as long as we get their attention, it's better than not.

I am still digesting some of the arguments for a solid light on the back. I find it somewhat hard to believe that there can be that much error in an observer's estimate of where the cyclist is located and velocity. Particularly since most people will be viewing the rear blinky from the rear. Given the much longer run times of the blinking light, I would prefer to leave it on that setting.

-G

Haven't seen it in the states, but I have seen situations where steady on, red, taillights would be prefered over flashing when I was living on Okinawa. They use little red blinking lights to mark everthing related to construction or repair projects on or near highways. Under these circumstances it would be easy for a cyclist running red flashing taillights to become lost in a sea of little red blinking lights.

A good blinkie is my formula. Also, I don't think you have to change the batteries as much in the blink mode. Reflective clothing, and other bright clothing and reflectors.

I run both all the time, day or night. As described in previous posts and confirmed by my local police force when I was verifying which colors would be acceptable or at least not provoke a ticket, and the advice was strobe to be noticed, solid to be tracked and recognized. I've had several motorists ask me about these lights at stop signs or stop lights as they want to take the info home to their cyclist to gain the improved visibility.

I run both. But recently I saw a roadie out for a ride who had a bright blue light attatched to his sprocket or reaar wheel somehow, it blinked in time to his wheel rotation and I'm guessing could be seen from both behind and in front (I saw it from his front). Definitely a nice idea, I'm heading to the stores this weekend to see if I can come up with something similar.

It wasn't bright enough to see where the object was, but it definitely got your attention as it looked really strange. I think that is the point. You want things that look out of the ordinary. I've been thinking of adding a blinky to the heel of my show somehow. I think the blinking together with the up and down motion would make it look very odd.

Then once they notice you, you need a bright solid _big_ light so they can avoid you.

----

Incidently this morning I came up on another commuter who had a dual front HID headlight and he had both of them set on blink. Incredibly annoying, although I guess I did miss him.

I am still digesting some of the arguments for a solid light on the back. I find it somewhat hard to believe that there can be that much error in an observer's estimate of where the cyclist is located and velocity. Particularly since most people will be viewing the rear blinky from the rear. Given the much longer run times of the blinking light, I would prefer to leave it on that setting.

-G

As for distance estimation, a single light of any variety will be fairly poor. Best thing there is to have two lights spaced as far apart as possible, so the driver can judge distance by the rate at which the space between the lights seems to increase as they approach.

That's one reason why cars have two headlights placed at opposite sides of the car - helps with distance estimation. And one reason why it's dangerous to operate with a single headlight.

As for distance estimation, a single light of any variety will be fairly poor. Best thing there is to have two lights spaced as far apart as possible, so the driver can judge distance by the rate at which the space between the lights seems to increase as they approach.

That's one reason why cars have two headlights placed at opposite sides of the car - helps with distance estimation. And one reason why it's dangerous to operate with a single headlight.

Interesting. OK ... let's see if I can overcome my innate laziness and put on two lights. Would they have to be solid--i.e., non-blinking--lights to exploit the phenomenon described above?

Like many others, I run a combination. To me it's about attracting attention while at the same time not being annoying or blinding to a driver.

A fully decked out nite time commute will have the Dinotte strobing with a couple of Mars 2 tails clipped to the bag. I usually have one of those glowing ankle bands and one or two similar clipons hanging from the bag

I blink for one and only one reason. I'm a cheapskate and batteries last a lot longer in blink mode.

BTW, if you see a bike with lights in Lansing, MI chances are it's me. I'm about the only rider here who even bothers with lights. And I didn't use them either for the first couple years I commuted at night.

same here. using a PBSF. considering a helmet light as well.