Southern California - Compensating for q-factor/lateral pedal width

Most people try to widen their pedal width (laterally) to keep their legs pedalling in a perfectly straight line. I have the opposite problem. My hips are so narrow that my pedals are actually several inches wider than where my feet should be. (I ride a 130 men's saddle)

I noticed this when I went to see my coach to check my cleat placement. I thought it had something to do with the stress I've been feeling on the outside of my knees when I sprint. He popped my bike on a trainer, had me spin, then told me to unclip and let my feet hang down. In their natural position, the cranks line up to my second toes.

There's not much I can do about the cranks or shoes, but I'm wondering if a change in pedals might help. I have the Keo carbons and have the tensions as loose as possible, and am thinking the Speedplays might be a better option. You fellas with the slender hips (yeah, you know who I'm talking about since I've chased your behinds more than once - see avatar)... do you have this problem and how do you compensate?

Not sure who you're referring to as the boys with slender hips, but for what it's worth, I don't seem to really care too much what my Q factor is. I'll notice when I switch between my bikes (wider on my Allez), but I adjust pretty quickly.

That said, seeing as it doesn't seem to bother me, I have also moved my cleats as far outward as possible, thus bringing my legs in a bit and presumably improving my aerodynamics a bit. I don't know about your case... can your cleats be moved further outward?

If it really bothers you consider going to a double..

How much room do you still have before your shoes start hitting the crank arm?

She's already on a compact double though.

If it really bothers you consider going to a double..

I am on a double. I'm just unusually narrow. :o

Jason/Dave, my shoes (Specialized carbon) don't allow for lateral adjustment of the cleats, only fore/aft. I doubt that would help much, though, as the inside of my shoe clears my crank only about 1/4". I suppose every little bit helps, tho. I may look into that when shopping for my next pair of shoes.
In the meantime, I've tried raising my seat a hair to relieve some pressure. Prolly not the optimal solution.

The drilled holes in my shoes are of fixed position. The cleat bolts don't move, but there's room in the cleat design to move the cleats a few mm either way laterally (and far more fore/aft) and still leave clearance for the bolts.

Several inches is pretty substantial. Most pedals q's can offer at most 1cm of adjustment for q-factor. Speedplays are usually 1cm less in terms of q when compared to other pedals. Another pedal to take a look at is the Look CX-6/7 where the pedal itself can be adjusted up 1cm. As for cranks, if you can you should look into the Campy UTs or Fulcrum UTs. Most of the newer outboard bearing cranks (FSA, Shimano, etc) had to increase their q-factor because of the outboard bearings, but Campy did not have to because of their UT design. A combination of cleat movement, pedal adjustment or different pedal and crank might get close to your desired goal but several inches is substantial.

Ian in SD

The Keo cleats have some sort of play in the positioning of the washers that allow you to move the cleats laterally. You can check by looking at the washer's position relative to the screw holes in the cleats.

You should also check out Time RXS since they do advertise adjustable Q-factor; I'm not sure what the exact Q-factor is though.

Several inches is pretty substantial. Most pedals q's can offer at most 1cm of adjustment for q-factor. Speedplays are usually 1cm less in terms of q when compared to other pedals. Another pedal to take a look at is the Look CX-6/7 where the pedal itself can be adjusted up 1cm. As for cranks, if you can you should look into the Campy UTs or Fulcrum UTs. Most of the newer outboard bearing cranks (FSA, Shimano, etc) had to increase their q-factor because of the outboard bearings, but Campy did not have to because of their UT design. A combination of cleat movement, pedal adjustment or different pedal and crank might get close to your desired goal but several inches is substantial.

Ian in SD

I meant 1cm more not less for the speedplays.

Thanks, Ian. I have looked at my cranks but they barely clear the chainstay. I don't even have room to put the tiny Garmin cadence sensor on the inside of my crank. (Yeah, it's a baby bike, what can I say)

Dave, oops, I should have added that I have maxed out what little lateral shift I could on the Keo washers.

I will look into those Time/Look pedals. Thanks!

BTW, if you have a local Performance store near you, you can just bring in a tape measure. The ones here carry time, shimano, speedplay and look. This should be a quick way to check out their spindle lengths (ignoring possible cleat adjustments).

I think Crank Bro make Ti shorter axles for their stuff.

Have you considered the wedge, I had an alignment issued with my legs, and the use of the wedge, completely took care of that. I know you have been fit once already, but you might consider John Howard. He is probably on the best fitters in the country and he has a great understanding of the alignment issues.

http://www.bikefit.com/fitterjohnhoward.php

You fellas with the slender hips (yeah, you know who I'm talking about since I've chased your behinds more than once - see avatar)... do you have this problem and how do you compensate?

I don't have the problem, but a friend of mine does, and he swears by speedplays, and claims they were a huge improvement over what he was using (I don't remember what it was).

The old discontinued SPD-R pedals (I use them on the track) also seem to have pretty good lateral adjustment, but it's all in the cleat. They're also hard to find, and getting shoes for them is difficult.

I think Crank Bro make Ti shorter axles for their stuff.

That they do. :)

TI:
http://www.crankbrothers.com/ti_spindle.php?itemId=82445

Steel:
http://www.crankbrothers.com/ssu_spindle.php

I have narrow hips but I also pedal with my heels in. I have to set the cleats up to the inside of the shoe so my heels won't rub the crank arms. If you point your toes forward and/or have small feet then it's not so much of an issue. I have to worry not only about my heels hitting the cranks, but hitting the chainstays.

If there is only 1/4 inch clearance between your heels and the crank, pedals with a shorter spindle won't work. To avoid your heels hitting the cranks you'd have to change the angle of your feet, and I think that'd cause much more of a problem than having the pedals a little too far apart. At least for me, I'm sensitive to foot angle but Q-factor isn't such a big deal. I'm comfortable on a double, triple, or MTB.


Are you really sure that this is causing your problem? Because its going to be expensive to address without screwing up your fit.

If it's the outside of the knee that's tight, do you do IT band stretches?

Are you really sure that this is causing your problem? Because its going to be expensive to address without screwing up your fit.

If it's the outside of the knee that's tight, do you do IT band stretches?

Hey Eric, when I keep my knees perfectly aligned to my hips, I can feel the stress immediately in my peroneus brevis (http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas2/peroneusbrevis.html), the muscle that attaches to the outside of my ankle. If I adjust my leg to make my feet happy, my knees don't maintain the perfect up-down stroke.

This mainly happens when I'm try to sprint on the flats. It doesn't bother me much when I'm climbing, prolly because I'm getting in and out of the saddle, and able to shift my weight around more comfortably.

I think I will try more cleat adjustments first. I'll try your heels-in approach. My feet feel like they want to do that anyway, I'm just not sure my shoes will allow any more movement in that direction. I already have shims, wedges and insoles, but more tweaking seems to be in the cards. It's not serious enough to keep me off the bike right now, but little things have the troubling habit of turning into big things if not corrected early.

I tried these...helped with a bunch of issues!

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/newproduct/lewedge.html

messing with foot angles can also effect knee pains on longer rides. That is the case for me, which is why I had to get cleats with ZERO float.