Advocacy & Safety - Drivers that are "Too Courteous"

Right...this is a problem I bet more of you wish you had...

There seems to be an increasing trend on my commute for drivers to yield the right of way to me, even when I am not entitled to it.

For example, I stop at a stop sign, the cross traffic does not have to stop. I'm patiently waiting for the cross traffic to clear. But this guy stops anyway, and waves me through.

All I can figure is that if I go, someone will rear end him and push them both into me. No thanks.

So I feign a mechanical problem, wave thanks and wave him through.

This has happened four times in the last month. Although I really appreciate the consideration, I can see it could cause more trouble than it's worth.

So, what do y'all do in this situation?

I use eye contact, or lack thereof, to help get the too-polite through intersections before me. I find that if I look the other way, they'll just go. The problem that they don't seem to recognize is that, if they let you go ahead of them, then they have to pass you. I'd rather have the cars in front of me. Especially if the driver is on a cell phone!

I think y'all are paranoid. If someone's going to give me the opportunity to get moving a little quicker, then why not? I give 'em a thank-you wave and get moving.

It really depends on the road. If I can clearly see that it's safe to do so, I'll go... just because it would take longer to refuse, and get them to go.... and then they feel like they were being nice and I was a jerk.

If I can't see that it's safe (ie: there may be traffic in a lane behind them) then I'll shake my head firmly and wave them on and wait.

They always get a thank you wave, regardless.

Where you really run into problems is when there are two lanes and only one of them stops and tries to wave you through... Seriously... you expect me to ride into the traffic that's passing you in the other lane???? *boggles*

Actually, I see similar situations regularly where motorists who have reached the stop sign before me and have the right of way sit staring at me as I am slowing and refuse to proceed. I wave them through, but still they sit, as if they expect me to barrel through the intersection anyway. I wave more and even call out theat they can go, but they refuse. Of course, I am trying not to come to a complete stop, but they force me to---and I find it frustrating. Geez, what do they need to continue through the intersection? A golden invitation served on a silver platter?

If I know someone is going to try this, I clip out, and bust out my water bottle and either take real long drinks, or fake it. Makes it look like I'm not interested in going for awhile.

Happens to me occasionally here in Miami, but its not just while I'm rifding my bike. For some reason, theres a small contingent of drivers that just stop dead at every single intersection to let all traffic go by, when they have the right of way!

They are more than balanced out by the vast majority of drivers here that always run lights and stop signs and violate my right of way.

Its really frustrating because I try to plan each intersection so I have to slow the least while at the same time respecting other traffic's right of way, and the "dead in the water" cars mess up my rythm.

I shake my head "no" in a very exaggerated way, while waving the car on, until
it goes. You gotta ride defensively. If you go when they wave to you, some
other car may run you over, and it would be your fault.

How about people who are too courteous when passing? They have plenty of time and room but don't take it. That's frustrating too. Meanwhile drivers behind become impatient.

I shake my head "no" in a very exaggerated way, while waving the car on, until
it goes. You gotta ride defensively. If you go when they wave to you, some
other car may run you over, and it would be your fault.

+1

The well-intentioned but clueless driver is a very dangerous animal.

I really don't like it when cars try to wave me through on green when they see me in the left turn lane. It's unpredictable enough, and sometimes I'm not ready to go so I can take longer than they expect to turn. It doesn't make me angry or anything, I just worry because unlike following regular ROW rules, it's completely unpredictable when these situations occur and they're sometimes dangerous. It's probably my least favorite part about riding in traffic, actually.

One of these days I'm going to get a jersey printed up that says

Don't be nice. Be predictable.

I think part of my problem is I often ride a BMX in traffic, and people might not assume I know what I'm doing or something. You would think that being in the lane, signalling for turns, etc, would be a good indicator that you know what your doing.

Has happened to me many times. Last time was last week. I am on my trike waiting to make a left turn across a divided four lane and there is a lady in a large SUV waiting to make a left from the four lane. We finally get a clear in traffic and she waves me over. I shake my head no. We wait a while longer and get another clear. She waves me through and I shout "you have the right of way". We wait for another clear spot and she decides to go, glaring at me (along with the poodle in her lap).

She thinks I'm a jerk for not accepting her gesture, I think she's an idiot for not realizing that she was asking me to go outside the flow of traffic and get squashed.

We left the encounter both thinking the other person was a jerk, but I was still alive.

Actually, I see similar situations regularly where motorists who have reached the stop sign before me and have the right of way sit staring at me as I am slowing and refuse to proceed. I wave them through, but still they sit, as if they expect me to barrel through the intersection anyway. I wave more and even call out theat they can go, but they refuse. Of course, I am trying not to come to a complete stop, but they force me to---and I find it frustrating. Geez, what do they need to continue through the intersection? A golden invitation served on a silver platter?

I am seeing this more and more frequently, as I ride alot in sprawling subdivisions. It is frustrating. I can't tell if they are being courteous, or they just don't trust what I'm going to do....and that is understandable. There are not alot of VC's around here. Mostly Lance wannabees who can't be bothered to slow down for stop signs and lights, and eggheads who don't know they are required to follow the rules of the road while they are out tooling on there pawn shop specials (yes, these "cyclists" tick me off...but that is another rant).

Bottom line, I want drivers to be more predictable, but they have learned from experience...at least around here...that not all cyclists are predictable.

Like many of you, I follow the rules of the road. And it would be alot easier if all drivers acted as if they knew that.

The more confidently and purposefully one rides the more other drivers follow ROW expectations. This means fully stopping at stop lines, putting foot down (not a legal requirement, but communicates intent vs. a track stand), clear positioning in lane, etc.
Al

Sometimes I point at the stop sign on my street,but some people find it amazingly difficult to figure this out. Other times I look away from the driver who has stopped (or who I think might stop), towards the traffic that is still moving.

I don't like drivers who wave me through intersections like this because there is always a chance that someone coming the other way will take me out and I will be at fault. I also sense that drivers who wave cyclists through when they have the right of way regard cyclists as pedestrians, and this is not an attitude I want to encourage.

they just don't trust what I'm going to do....and that is understandable. There are not alot of VC's around here. Mostly Lance wannabees who can't be bothered to slow down for stop signs and lights,

but they have learned from experience...at least around here...that not all cyclists are predictable.


+1

The more confidently and purposefully one rides the more other drivers follow ROW expectations. This means fully stopping at stop lines, putting foot down (not a legal requirement, but communicates intent vs. a track stand), clear positioning in lane, etc.
Al

Al, this is a good idea that we have discussed before.

In the past, I performed a track stand at stop signs...and autos would typically wave me through, even if it wasn't my turn.

So..if there are cars around...I'll unclip and put my foot down, and let whoever is next in line go.

I save the track stands for when no one is looking. :D

The worst is when someone does this and there is traffic behind. In New England if someone pulls the "nice driver" thing, people will just swing around them on the shoulder. So when someone stops, not only are they totally risking being rear-ended for impeding traffic, but they also exacerbate the situation as those behind them create another lane... usually where there can be bicycle traffic. Sucks all around. I make exaggerated motions--shake head and vigorously wave them on. If that doesn't work, look away and cross my arms, indicating "I ain't goin' nowhere."

+1 for "Don't be nice, be predictable."

2 lane road: thanks!
4 lane road: Do I look like I have a death wish?

If they're prepared to give way, I'm prepared to take it.

How about people who are too courteous when passing? They have plenty of time and room but don't take it. That's frustrating too. Meanwhile drivers behind become impatient.

I fail to see how that is in any way a problem. Let 'em take as long as they want, I reckon. Meanwhile, you get a nice, quiet lane.

Impatience is the natural state for many motorists. I wouldn't burst a neuron worrying about it.

I think y'all are paranoid. If someone's going to give me the opportunity to get moving a little quicker, then why not? I give 'em a thank-you wave and get moving.

+1

If someone is going out of their way to extend some courtesy, I'll happilly oblige and let them know I appreciate it.

It's too bad that more ppl in the world aren't willing to sacrifce their "right of way" and extend courtesy.

Right...this is a problem I bet more of you wish you had...

There seems to be an increasing trend on my commute for drivers to yield the right of way to me, even when I am not entitled to it.

For example, I stop at a stop sign, the cross traffic does not have to stop. I'm patiently waiting for the cross traffic to clear. But this guy stops anyway, and waves me through.

All I can figure is that if I go, someone will rear end him and push them both into me. No thanks.

So I feign a mechanical problem, wave thanks and wave him through.

This has happened four times in the last month. Although I really appreciate the consideration, I can see it could cause more trouble than it's worth.

So, what do y'all do in this situation?

I normally go when they do this. But it does annoy me when im doing a track stand and loose it just as they start to wave me through. I hate un clipping then re clipping in a second after my foot touches ground.

George Carlin used to do a bit about drivers who practice "False Courtesy". They are a danger to others on the road and should not be encouraged. I give them a death stare until they move their idiotic selves. I have time and since they have to be in their car, probably don't.

How about people who are too courteous when passing? They have plenty of time and room but don't take it. That's frustrating too. Meanwhile drivers behind become impatient.

I've had that problem as well - even after motioning them to pass.

If for some reason I feel it is considerably safer to force them up front, I will repeat the passing motion with my hand with an impatient vigorousness, and I'm pleased to say this method has never failed me yet to get the desired reaction.

The only caveat with this method is that not a single car following behind the reluctant passer will not follow suit - right up to a stop sign or traffic light if necessary.

-Kurt

Right...this is a problem I bet more of you wish you had...

There seems to be an increasing trend on my commute for drivers to yield the right of way to me, even when I am not entitled to it.

For example, I stop at a stop sign, the cross traffic does not have to stop. I'm patiently waiting for the cross traffic to clear. But this guy stops anyway, and waves me through.

All I can figure is that if I go, someone will rear end him and push them both into me. No thanks.

So I feign a mechanical problem, wave thanks and wave him through.

This has happened four times in the last month. Although I really appreciate the consideration, I can see it could cause more trouble than it's worth.

So, what do y'all do in this situation?

This happens to me almost daily on my commute. At 4 way stops and sometimes at intersections. Most of the time, I just smile and wave them on through and take my turn as I feel I should and as I feel is safest. I also have the 'too nice to pass people from time to time.'

A four way stop is one thing. If we get there at the same time and I'm waved through, I will go, with a smile and a wave.

My concern are those that stop when they DON'T have a stop, and I DO have a stop.

I like to think people are being thoughtful, or maybe they just think that an middle-aged overweight guy in a bright jersey riding a tiny folding bike is crazy and had better not be crossed!

:D

It's too bad that more ppl in the world aren't willing to sacrifce their "right of way" and extend courtesy.

It may have even been Miss Manners who said that "the right of way is given, not taken."

Even so, I understand the annoyance of encountering drivers who unnecessarily try to let me go ahead. I've unclipped both feet, let go of the handlebars, and stood there, straddling my bike, and waved them through like they're supposed to do. I always unclip and at least hang a foot while approaching a stop so they at least see that I'm intending to stop like I'm supposed to.

"Don't be nice, be predictable" is a good one. That'll only happen with better driver & cyclist education, which I don't see happening anytime soon in the US.

The point was made that drivers have probably learned to expect the unexpected when it comes to cyclists on the road. I think that's pretty true, too.

In DC, pedestrians rule the roads, because they're either clueless, selfish, or trying to score an injury lawsuit. It's not like NYC, where pedestrians are afraid to cross until it's good & clear. I've seen people step out on a Don't Walk sign and strut across in front of traffic that's just gotten the green. Because of peds like these, I have to wave cars past if I'm walking and waiting at an intersection, even if I don't have the light. It's insanely stupid.

I get this a lot, but i always just thought it was cuz i'm hot.

Right...this is a problem I bet more of you wish you had...

I really can't see the problem here. Obviously, if you are making a left across more than one lane of oncoming traffic, then you need to exercise caution that you don't accept the courtesy of one driver only to pull into the path of another who is probably wondering why the first guy has stopped.

But, even in that situation, it isn't that difficult to look around or over the courteous vehicle, evaluate the situation and respond accordingly.

One bike shop I frequent is situated in the middle of a mile-long "block" on a fast-moving four laner with a wide center turn-only lane. My route dictates that I make a left to enter this establishment.

If traffic is heavy, I will generally not trust my mirror, but will pull into the parking lot of one of the business on my right (across from the bike store), so that I can turn around and cross the road from a perpendicular angle with better vision. Regardless of how I affect my left turn, however, it is almost impossible to cross to the other side except that some driver or two acknowledges you, stops, and waves you through.

Again, unless the other oncoming lane (traffic to my right if I'm crossing perpendicularly) is clear, I have to impose on courteous driver #1 until yet another driver also extends the courtesy.

It's really not a problem, though. It's heads-up driving from all parties.

At a four way, if it's me and just one other car, I don't see the big deal in accepting the right of way when offered. It doesn't really matter which of us goes first as long as we communicate and don't both go at the same time. If we are equally stubborn, and neither of us goes, it is, again, not a big deal.

Even if more than one car is present, as long as everyone communicates and you watch out for the hog who may try to gun through as soon as he/she sees any hesitation from the rest, then, you'll be fine. The hog is likely to gun through when everyone is taking their rightful turn, so the potential for his/her negative influence is ever present, and he/she is to be watched at all times.

As for passers, I find it amusing to watch how different drivers handle it. Some treat the white line as if it is a reinforced concrete wall . . . as long as you are to the right of the line and they are to the left, they feel confident in passing you no matter how great their speed.

Others pass with due caution, slow to a speed just faster than yours, and can pass safely, no matter how tight the circumstance.

Others pass with plenty of clearance (probably too much clearance) at such a high speed that they have trouble getting back into their lane after passing you. I've seen more than one near head-on car-on-car collision with these types of drivers.

Then, of course, there are the no-passers. They slow to your speed and refuse to pass even if there is no oncoming traffic and a couple of oncoming open traffic lanes are available to them . . . as if the double-yellow is also a concrete wall.

These are the drivers that get other drivers heated up.

Fortunately, given the number of miles I ride in heavy traffic, my problems are relatively few. The overly cautious, overly polite driver is probably the least of my worries.

Caruso

Right...this is a problem I bet more of you wish you had...

There seems to be an increasing trend on my commute for drivers to yield the right of way to me, even when I am not entitled to it.

For example, I stop at a stop sign, the cross traffic does not have to stop. I'm patiently waiting for the cross traffic to clear. But this guy stops anyway, and waves me through.

All I can figure is that if I go, someone will rear end him and push them both into me. No thanks.

So I feign a mechanical problem, wave thanks and wave him through.

This has happened four times in the last month. Although I really appreciate the consideration, I can see it could cause more trouble than it's worth.

So, what do y'all do in this situation?

I find it far more expedient just to take the right of way when offered, with a smile and and a thank you. I have given it on quite a few occasions while driving in the presence of cyclists (being one myself). To refuse the right of way can mean being stuck in the "After-you loop":

"After you."

"No. After you."

"No, I inist"

"That's very kind of you, but I must decline"

"Please be my guest"

"No. Please. I wouldn't dream of intruding"

"It's no intusion at all"

......

You get the point. Just take it when offered , get to your right, wave and smile as the motorist passes you again.

I really can't see the problem here. Obviously, if you are making a left across more than one lane of oncoming traffic, then you need to exercise caution that you don't accept the courtesy of one driver only to pull into the path of another who is probably wondering why the first guy has stopped.

But, even in that situation, it isn't that difficult to look around or over the courteous vehicle, evaluate the situation and respond accordingly.

One bike shop I frequent is situated in the middle of a mile-long "block" on a fast-moving four laner with a wide center turn-only lane. My route dictates that I make a left to enter this establishment.

If traffic is heavy, I will generally not trust my mirror, but will pull into the parking lot of one of the business on my right (across from the bike store), so that I can turn around and cross the road from a perpendicular angle with better vision. Regardless of how I affect my left turn, however, it is almost impossible to cross to the other side except that some driver or two acknowledges you, stops, and waves you through.

Again, unless the other oncoming lane (traffic to my right if I'm crossing perpendicularly) is clear, I have to impose on courteous driver #1 until yet another driver also extends the courtesy.

It's really not a problem, though. It's heads-up driving from all parties.


What happens when there are two cars in the first oncoming lane, no traffic in the other lane. Car stops for you, you start going. Car #2 figures out that car #1 is yielding the right of way unnecessarily and guns it into the other lane and around car #1... into the lane you're just now entering after accepting car #1's courteous yielding of his right of way.

Guess who's at fault in the accident? Yep. YOU. You failed to yield right of way to oncoming traffic. THAT'S where the TOO courteous part comes from.

Another scenario: Car #1 stops, but there's traffic in lane 2... You're waiting for an opening in that lane as well... FINALLY someone sees you, and slows... you stand on the pedals and start moving.... only to find that car #1 has suddenly become impatient waiting for you and thinks you're not moving, so he steps on the gas at the same time. Now you're slamming on your brakes to keep from rolling into moving traffic.

I especially like your comment about it being 'heads-up driving from all parties' .... have you looked at some of the drivers around? A fair number of them have their 'heads-up' some part of their anatomy that it wasn't designed to fit.

Sure... take it if you want, IF it's safe for you to do so... Just remember, even though the driver may have good intentions, they're NOT always able to see why it may NOT be a good idea for you to take their offer.

A personal experience: 5 lane road... two lanes each direction, one center turn lane... I'm waiting to make a turn... not really that much traffic... I can see two cars approaching in the nearest lane, then it's wide open. Car #2 (largish SUV) is quite a ways back, but closing on car #1 rapidly. Car #1 stops, and waves me through... I'm shaking my head, and he waves me through again.... I start to point, and right then car #2 changes to the inside lane without slowing, and passes car #1 fast enough and close enough to make the car shake. He was doing well over the speed limit and I SAW the other driver flinch and cringe when the guy made his unsafe pass.