This Monday. Lol... you guys can all live vicariously through me as I get to experience what real car-free living is about.
If I can't find what I'm looking for in Venice...then... well... I will go hang myself. No really though, I'll probably just realize I just want to be in the middle of nature without any cities.
Anyways, Davis...
is a joke.
I'm sorry... but who are these American League of Bicyclists anyways????
Its really sad actually. The car is dominant in Davis. You can feel it in the attitudes of drivers. I have to say the vibe I'm getting is that Davis is getting overtaken by the car culture.... and I don't think the city is doing enough to try to stop it.
Downtown is sad. Like someone said on my other thread... there are tons of cars... just going slower...sometimes not. But its annoying. Totally RUINS any feel of common place... The car literally breaks anything good about a downtown social center. Its crazy. 1 person... takes up so much space in his car. Blocks off pedestrians from walking around...
I'm speaking to the choir (or whatever the saying is)
Its just a joke. It took me coming to Davis to realize that the "platinum" rating Davis gets by the American League of Bicyclists (or whatever the exact name of the organization is)... is ridiculous. If Davis is platinum, then the rest of America is just SCREWED. which...it is.
I personally think Manhatten is a better place to live for pedestrians then Davis.
It seems the more people who take public transportation, or just walk places... the better. The more people not driving, the more power pedestrians have.
I'm really tired of American culture. Its so sad. Someone dragged me to see the movie SuperBad... and I literally realized how stupid Americans are if they actually like that movie. That movie literally solidified in my mind how I need to leave America.
Is it just me or is America turning into a horrible country. I feel like people from other places in the world are just smarter and more enlightened. Not everyone obviously. Seems many people on this car-free board are intelligent. But look at the rest of the masses of the USA. I don't even need to say anything.
swwhite
09-27-07, 07:09 AM
If this link works...
http://www.i-ce.info/html/i-ce/home.htm
...there is a reference on the left frame about a Cycling Friendly Cities video on youtube. It appears that Denmark, Amsterdam, and Bogota could be interesting places. I was in the Netherlands about 25 years ago and even then it seemed like everyone spoke English. You might want to drop in for a visit.
bmike
09-27-07, 07:30 AM
might want to head to some other italian towns. venice is full of tourists... (although maybe not at this time of year)
we really liked florence. lots of cars on the periphery - but the core is closed to them most of the day.
lots of bikes in italy for sure - but lots of scooters and cars in florence and rome.
you might head further north to amdam or copenhagen, etc. they were on my list for this fall - but it looks like spring before we can go.
have fun.
Gus Riley
09-27-07, 08:00 AM
Venice is a beautiful place, one where I would visit again and again, but it is also one of those tourist areas where entrepreneurs specializing in picking pockets flourish. Have a great time there but keep a hold of your wallet.
bpohl
09-27-07, 08:00 AM
Wherever you go, there you are.
Artkansas
09-27-07, 11:22 AM
The core of Venice is also very bicycle unfriendly. Besides the canals, all there is is curvy, uneven sidewalks. It was made for pedestrians in the time of Leonardo Da Vinci. What would you expect?
Good luck. Hope you find what you are looking for.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-27-07, 11:59 AM
Yeah, I'm going to Venice :)
<Snip>
I'm really tired of American culture. Its so sad. Someone dragged me to see the movie SuperBad... and I literally realized how stupid Americans are if they actually like that movie. That movie literally solidified in my mind how I need to leave America.
Is it just me or is America turning into a horrible country. I feel like people from other places in the world are just smarter and more enlightened. Not everyone obviously. Seems many people on this car-free board are intelligent. But look at the rest of the masses of the USA. I don't even need to say anything.
Don't forget to burn your passport after leaving this horrible country.
Roody
09-27-07, 12:30 PM
Of course the main mode of transit in Venice is motorboats, with ICEs that manage to pollute both the air and the water. They're noisier and stinkier than any cars. :p
But maybe I'm just jealous. I've never been to Venice, but it looks like a beautiful city. I read that their population has plummeted in recent years, but i don't remember why.
gcl8a
09-27-07, 12:36 PM
...their population has plummeted in recent years, but i don't remember why.
Maybe they couldn't swim...
paralegal1973
09-27-07, 12:37 PM
Thanks for telling it like it is CagerTools! I say it and think it everyday, but eventually get too tired to fight anymore (after being cut off by a minivan, yelled at, tail-gated, etc...).
If ignorance was bliss, the US would be in nirvana. If you do find a wonderful bike & pedestrian friendly city, DON'T tell anyone because they'll just phuck it up!!!!!!!!! Keep it to yourself.
Hoping to become an expatriate in ten or so years.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-27-07, 01:57 PM
Hoping to become an expatriate in ten or so years.
Whatcha waitin' for? Nirvana is calling from the Green Grasslands.
Newspaperguy
09-27-07, 02:01 PM
Every place in the world has its own strengths and weaknesses. You've noticed this in Davis and you'll experience it again in Venice. The move to Davis kept you in the same country and the same state as I recall. Moving to Venice will put you in another land, with language barriers and cultural barriers to overcome. It might be a great move, but it could also prove difficult. Please, for your own sake, think carefully before you make a move of this magnitude.
In quite a lot of your previous posts, you've talked about noise pollution and the difficulties you've had with the noises around you. Please see a doctor. You might have a medical condition which is affecting you in this way. You need to see if that is the problem before you contemplate another move.
Artkansas
09-27-07, 02:01 PM
Whatcha waitin' for? Nirvana is calling from the Green Grasslands.
So lets all move to Burlington, Iowa. ;)
gosmsgo
09-27-07, 02:14 PM
Its funny how all you guys would be so outraged if bikes were banned from any street and yet you want cars banned from entire sections of town.
North Korea might be a good place to move to.
ITs hard to buy a car when you are starving to death.
Platy
09-27-07, 02:26 PM
A significant part of the tourist/historical section of Guanajuato city in Mexico is car free. It's an old silver mining town and much of the downtown traffic has been diverted into tunnels. However, the church bells will wake you in the morning and the roving bands of musicians will keep you up late at night.
Artkansas
09-27-07, 02:29 PM
Its funny how all you guys would be so outraged if bikes were banned from any street and yet you want cars banned from entire sections of town.
All???? I believe there is a big range of opinions here that you are not accounting for, including your own.
And bikes are banned from many streets in most cities. They're called freeways.
Or interstates or thruways, you know multi-lane, limited access. And yes, I'm aware that in some places a bicycle may ride on the multi-lane, limited access highway, but as a rule, they are banned.
gosmsgo
09-27-07, 02:37 PM
Ive never lived in a city large enough to have freeways.
Around here the only place bikes are banned is on the interstate.
bmike
09-27-07, 05:38 PM
So lets all move to Burlington, Iowa. ;)
Iowa?
Burlington, VT is pretty nice. But I'm biased.
I do want to visit Iowa though, just to see if ILTB is as grumpy in person as he is on the web. (but we might find out he's a dog, or a 14 yo girl...! :eek: )
Dahon.Steve
09-27-07, 09:35 PM
Someone told me Venice smells. The water does not move and all those open canals have a horrendous odor. Oh, don't forget to bring your wallet because prices are high as everything must be imported by water.
As for Davis, I agree that Manhattan is more ped friendly due to the wide sidewalks. Bicycling is another story.
syn0n
09-27-07, 10:42 PM
@ the OP: I'm not trying to provoke, but I find that people "fed up" with American culture typically haven't traveled out of the states too much. Once you've traveled around, I think you'll find that things really aren't so bad stateside. But if you really hate cars so much, why don't you just take the plunge and go to Amsterdam already?
Also, be prepared to spend a lot of money, and get relatively little for it. Britian, France, and Germany all proved themselves to be rather expensive when I was there this summer, and for someone actually intending to live there, well, good luck. :)
zephyr
09-27-07, 10:58 PM
Wow Cager, how did you come up with the big bucks to move to Europe? The dollar is worth nothing next to the Euro, can't imagine living or visiting in western Europe, especially a tourist trap like Venice, without some really fat bank accounts readily accessible by ATMs.
Too bad you didn't take up my suggestion to take a visit just 90 miles north of Davis to check out the wonderful town of Chico.
If you get tired of hanging around the Venice tourist trap (you will) and you have any money left, there are lots of other bike friendlier places in Europe. Many are not the famous places you have mentioned. Lesser known places like Muenster, Germany (northwest of Cologne) where nearly half the population uses a bike for some of their daily transportation. Many cities in the eastern states of Germany are also very bike friendly, like Berlin or Leipzig (my personal fav). Relatively flat in those places so even a 1 or 3 speed rental bike that you can get at the train station will do the job.
cakmakli
09-28-07, 07:05 AM
I've have lived overseas for eight years and have visited over 15 different countries and loved every minute of it but every country has its own pluses and minuses. Italy is a great country and Venice is beautiful but there are better bike friendly places to live. It takes some getting used to the way Italians drive and most streets are narrow with little or no shoulders. They drive fast and balls to the walls.
I would consider Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands. In my opinion much more bike friendly.
Also, I don't know your financial situation but it might be difficult if you plan on working in Europe. Your visa might not allow you to work. You must also consider the cost of living. It is much more expensive there and you will pay higher taxes.
Either way, good luck and enjoy yourself. I would move back to Europe in a heartbeat
rhm
09-28-07, 07:56 AM
...
I would consider Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands. In my opinion much more bike friendly.
...
+1
If it weren't for all the tobacco smoke, I think I'd move to the Netherlands, or maybe Germany. I haven't been to Venice, so I can't compare them.
superdex
09-28-07, 08:57 AM
Yeah, I'm going to Venice :)
This Monday. Lol... you guys can all live vicariously through me as I get to experience what real car-free living is about.
You realize Venice is bike free too, right? I was there just a couple weeks ago. Not. a single. bike. Five Diesel stores, one Disney Store, and enough high fashion more-money-than-sense stores to make the place feel more like a mall than a city of History. If you're into that.
Hate to break it to you, but Venice ain't your magic bullet.
adgrant
09-28-07, 11:43 AM
I personally think Manhatten is a better place to live for pedestrians then Davis.
Manhattan is the most pedestrian friendly place in the U.S. and more pedestrian friendly than most places outside the U.S. (e.g. London). OTOH the pedestrians aren't always that friendly. They can be really quite aggressive (don't get in their way). Manhattan is also the most expensive place to live in the U.S. and one of the noisiest.
Its actually not that bad to drive in either provided you have deep pockets, parking one car can cost $400 to $1000 a month.
cyclezealot
09-28-07, 11:50 AM
cager. Always on the look out for movies. Care to give us a one line synposis of Superbad. One to miss. We were in Venice in May. Definitely not a car city. For the best biking in Italy go to Tuscany.
cyclezealot
09-28-07, 11:54 AM
. :p
But maybe I'm just jealous. I've never been to Venice, but it looks like a beautiful city. I read that their population has plummeted in recent years, but i don't remember why.
because the city is under threat by rising water. Many of the homes smell because of rot about the base of the structures. You won't realize it necessarily, because the city appears to maintain the facade. But, if you look closely, many of the homes are abandoned.
Want a job to make you fit. Get a delivery job. Delivery people move goods about using hand carts. They have arms with greater circumferences than Lance Armstrong's quads.
Izengabe
09-29-07, 07:28 AM
Cager, bad time to visit Europe. Dollar is at all time lows vs. the Euro. Everything there will be insanely expensive if you are paying in dollars.
If money is no issue you might want to consider moving to New York! Most people live here car free and we have the best Mass Transit in America. Rent is expensive but it is offset by savings on not having a car.
If money is an issue have you considered Buenos Aries? It is an amazing city and Argentina is insanely cheap right now! Everything there is roughly 1/3 the price it is here and it is extremely pedestrian friendly.
CagerTools
09-30-07, 11:19 AM
thank you for all the postings. i still haven't left. I may just cancel my ticket. Seems it might not be the best way to go. i'll keep ya'll posted.
Roody
09-30-07, 11:34 AM
thank you for all the postings. i still haven't left. I may just cancel my ticket. Seems it might not be the best way to go. i'll keep ya'll posted.
I think you'll find that American culture is pretty much taking over the world. If you think a McDonalds or Walmart looks ugly in Davis, wait till you see them in a historic area of Europe or Asia.
hotbike
10-01-07, 10:17 AM
Here is a picture of a train that goes to Venice:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/BikeTrain.jpg
And another:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/BicycleTrain.jpg
The train has very ample space to bring your bike onboard.
However, Venice itself is not a good city to bike in, on account they got NO ROADS! It's all canals.
Roody
10-01-07, 10:21 AM
A pedal boat is the obvious solution.
Artkansas
10-01-07, 05:39 PM
Copenhagen might be considered. It has a relatively nice attitude towards bicycling.
+1
If it weren't for all the tobacco smoke, I think I'd move to the Netherlands, or maybe Germany. I haven't been to Venice, so I can't compare them.
Germany is starting to finally follow the EU lead/pressure towards going smokeless (at least inside public buildings, restaurants, airports and train stations). Each state has to pass their own legislation.
chephy
10-03-07, 08:50 AM
I do want to visit Iowa though, just to see if ILTB is as grumpy in person as he is on the web. (but we might find out he's a dog, or a 14 yo girl...! :eek: ) I vote for 14-year-old girl. She'll be listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the grumpiest 14-year-old girl of all times. :D
Artkansas
10-03-07, 09:03 AM
but we might find out he's a dog, or a 14 yo girl...! :eek:
Or just posing as a 14 yo girl to trap predators on television. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I-Like-To-Bike
10-03-07, 09:16 AM
Or just posing as a 14 yo girl to trap predators on television. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Or outing college grad loozers/Woodstock Nation wannabes/mental cases without a clue passing themselves off as bicycling advocates.
Artkansas
10-03-07, 09:21 AM
Or outing college grad loozers/Woodstock Nation wannabes/mental cases passing themselves off as bicycling advocates.
oh, don't give up on venice sight unseen! it's true that it's a NO bike city *in the city center* but it's still a place that makes you really think about cars in your world, and noise pollution. and once you get outside of venice to mestre (where people actually live) and on, it's nice biking country.
for cycling around tuscany is decent but living there -- you've got to like hills. this summer i spent a month living in berlin and i absolutely adored cycling there. the bike lanes are obvious, the cars are used to bikes!! and they back up out of the bike lanes for you! i was in heaven : )
the netherlands is known for its bike-friendly cities. i believe that maastricht is nearly bike only, or at least the bike lanes are much larger than the car-lanes.
in krakow, naturally, people aren't sure what bikes are, or what they are doing in the road. they think i'm perhaps a stray dog, and should be run over...
donnamb
10-14-07, 01:15 PM
Witamy, keflex. :) That's really sad to hear in the hometown of Karol Wojtyla. I was in Catholic grade school in the 1980's and we learned that the man really liked to ride his bike.
thank you for all the postings. i still haven't left. I may just cancel my ticket. Seems it might not be the best way to go. i'll keep ya'll posted.
How much did the ticket cancelation set you back? Still suffering or laughing at the tribulations of camping out in Davis, Ca or have you drifted in to some other town?
jamesdenver
10-17-07, 01:47 PM
I'm really tired of American culture. Its so sad. Someone dragged me to see the movie SuperBad... and I literally realized how stupid Americans are if they actually like that movie. That movie literally solidified in my mind how I need to leave America.
Ugh - another "I hate American" post by troll Cagertools. You couldn't tell the person "dragging" you that you weren't interested? And there's plenty of dumber things than Superbad. Like Cheaters for example, and the Magic Bullet informercial. Oh wait I love the Magic Bullet informerical. Hazel is my favorite.
You need to examine yourself. If you think the entire concept of "America" is the reason you're unhappy my guess is that the problem is you. Sure there's lots of cars and consumption. I'm not a fan, but welcome to capitalism. But there's plenty of wonderful urban walkable neighborhoods, and wide open spaces out west. Every imaginable culture inside, wait why am I selling you? If you can't find anything good in northern California of all places the problem is you.
p.s. as the other posters mentioned why not go somewhere cheap. Czech or Slovak republic, Croatia, Thailand, etc. They're all beatiful places and cheap. Don't go to Argentina. That's my second home. Or how about hangin out with me and my Bulgarian friends at Barricudas and pick their brains at why they chose to move here for schooling and work instead of the utopia that is Europe.
zephyr
10-17-07, 10:21 PM
p.s. as the other posters mentioned why not go somewhere cheap. Czech or Slovak republic, Croatia, Thailand, etc. They're all beatiful places and cheap. Don't go to Argentina. That's my second home. Or how about hangin out with me and my Bulgarian friends at Barricudas and pick their brains at why they chose to move here for schooling and work instead of the utopia that is Europe.
Hey good post there JD. You hang out in Argentina from time to time? Whereabouts? I've been all over that part of the world, I like it there too, as well as Chile and Uruguay. Once you get away from the capital cities or a few of the resort towns of any of those countries, don't run into very many foreign tourists. Very nice lifestyle, pretty easy going. There's a few towns near Cordoba, Argentina that I wouldn't mind checking out to turn into a long term place to stay after I retire from my office cubicle world in 3 years or so. Nice weather, good public transit, pretty decent for bike riding and pretty easy on the ATM card compared to most places in the world.
jamesdenver
10-18-07, 06:49 PM
Thanks. I've only taken one big trip to Argentina, for a few weeks in late '05. But my heart lives there :) I met some wonderful people there I still keep in contact with. I love the food, culture, political activism (I was there during the BsAs provincial elections) and passion of the Portenos.
I stayed in one neighborhood in Recoleta/Barrio Norte so really got to know once place well -- and did a side trip to Uruguay as well.
I'll be returning soon, maybe get to Cordoba and do some winery tours, or south to Patagonia. It's very affordable. Europe at 1/3 the U.S. dollar.
samundsen
10-29-07, 12:31 PM
Where is CagerTools now anyways? He hasn't posted in a month, and I found his posts entertaining....
I-Like-To-Bike
10-29-07, 01:17 PM
Where is CagerTools now anyways? He hasn't posted in a month, and I found his posts entertaining....
My guess, in his parent's basement. Or maybe a government/charity institution proving 3 meals and a warm cot.