Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - emergency - cold feet!

ok so i'm heading on a 180miles ride tomorrow night and the temp has suddenly dropped. i went for a light spin last night to keep my legs loose and my toes were freezingcold!

any good tips to solving my problem? i might not have the chance to go out and buy snazzy winter shoe covers.....am hoping fo more of a diy approach?

baggies or saran wrap around your feet. no really, i mean it.

baggies or saran wrap around your feet. no really, i mean it.
You'll get cold sweat that way -- then you REALLY freeze.

For a DIY approach not using shoe covers (the preferred approach), cannibalize some socks and put them over your shoes. Obviously, you will need to cut holes for the cleats. Thick hiking socks are best.

Do not try to wear a bunch of pairs of socks in your normal shoes. You'll just cut off circulation to your feet and make them freeze.

For emergencies, carry hand warmers in your pack. If your feet get too cold, you can throw them in your socks for a bit while you defrost. You won't be able to ride with those in there because they're too bulky, but it's a temporary fix.

You'll get cold sweat that way -- then you REALLY freeze.

For a DIY approach not using shoe covers (the preferred approach), cannibalize some socks and put them over your shoes. Obviously, you will need to cut holes for the cleats. Thick hiking socks are best.

Do not try to wear a bunch of pairs of socks in your normal shoes. You'll just cut off circulation to your feet and make them freeze.

For emergencies, carry hand warmers in your pack. If your feet get too cold, you can throw them in your socks for a bit while you defrost. You won't be able to ride with those in there because they're too bulky, but it's a temporary fix.

This really does work. Many a pair of old socks have become shoe covers over the years, even in the middle of winter.

Wool!

Seriously, any solution should involve wool socks...

Which leads to the point that cold weather shoes really need to be non ventilated (most cycling
shoes have a generous set of vents where the body of the shoe is perforated and covered with
an open weave cloth that lets in blasts of cold air) and over sized enough to allow a thicker
set of socks to be worn. Hasten to the usual websites for shoe covers. I find the toe booties
good for rides of 3-4 hours down to 40F or so, where it is likely to warm up in the course of the
ride. For temps in the 30-34F range full shoe covers are a better idea. I don't ride cooler than
that so don't know their lower limits. Full shoe covers come in cloth and in neoprene with the
latter a good bit warmer. Sizes on the shoe covers are a bit misleading: buy one at least 2 sizes
larger than your shoe size. My neoprenes take 5-10min to wrestle in place on 45 sized shoes and
are XLs for 48 sized shoes. Expect to cut a hole for the cleats.

This really does work. Many a pair of old socks have become shoe covers over the years, even in the middle of winter.
Actually, a pair of old socks over the shoes is probably the ticket. If that's insufficient, handwarmers could be thrown between the shoes and the exterior socks to improve things significantly.

Another vote for wool socks, 1pr and use something breathable to cover your shoes.

You're doing a 180 mile route and don't expect to pass any bike shops at all? ;)

doubt they'll be open as am riding through the night!

thanks for the tips!

You'll get cold sweat that way -- then you REALLY freeze.

For a DIY approach not using shoe covers (the preferred approach), cannibalize some socks and put them over your shoes. Obviously, you will need to cut holes for the cleats. Thick hiking socks are best.

Do not try to wear a bunch of pairs of socks in your normal shoes. You'll just cut off circulation to your feet and make them freeze.

For emergencies, carry hand warmers in your pack. If your feet get too cold, you can throw them in your socks for a bit while you defrost. You won't be able to ride with those in there because they're too bulky, but it's a temporary fix.

No you won't. It's a proven technique. I've never heard of someone doing just the toes though. It would need to be sealed to work.

It's called a vapor barrier. Climbers and arctic travellers have been using them forever.
Once the microclimate around your feet reaches a certain humidity your feet will stop sweating. The slightly damp region allows outer insulation, like a sock to stay dry and thus warmer. The fact that it keeps air out prevents evaporative cooling.

No you won't. It's a proven technique. I've never heard of someone doing just the toes though. It would need to be sealed to work.

It's called a vapor barrier. Climbers and arctic travellers have been using them forever.
Once the microclimate around your feet reaches a certain humidity your feet will stop sweating. The slightly damp region allows outer insulation, like a sock to stay dry and thus warmer. The fact that it keeps air out prevents evaporative cooling.


Yes,

but to work properly the vapor barrier needs to go next to or very close to the skin. Still, this method only gets you so much. You still have to increase the insulation. You don't see climbers using only vapor barriers and normal shoes. THey have multiple layers of insulation and well insulated boots.

However,

The vapor barrier next to the skin, then a thin wool sock then the shoe and a thick wool sock over the shoe might work pretty good for dry fall conditions. You can also make some pretty cheap shoe covers out of polar fleece for 2-3 dollars. Remnants of material at the fabric store are cheap and you can make some large sock like things. They will be warmer than most socks and you can make them black so they don't look so funny as wearing wool socks over shoes.

Yes,

but to work properly the vapor barrier needs to go next to or very close to the skin. Still, this method only gets you so much. You still have to increase the insulation. You don't see climbers using only vapor barriers and normal shoes. THey have multiple layers of insulation and well insulated boots.

However,

The vapor barrier next to the skin, then a thin wool sock then the shoe and a thick wool sock over the shoe might work pretty good for dry fall conditions. You can also make some pretty cheap shoe covers out of polar fleece for 2-3 dollars. Remnants of material at the fabric store are cheap and you can make some large sock like things. They will be warmer than most socks and you can make them black so they don't look so funny as wearing wool socks over shoes.
I've been climbing with them for 15 years and we do use them with lighter shoes and non-insulated boots too, to keep the sock dry.

For emergencies, carry hand warmers in your pack. If your feet get too cold, you can throw them in your socks for a bit while you defrost. You won't be able to ride with those in there because they're too bulky, but it's a temporary fix.

Actually I can slide one of those chemical warmers under my foot and toes. I don't do it often but it works. They aren't real thick. Of course if your shoes are tight to begin with, maybe not. I actually have a pair of shoes a little big that I can use in winter which isn't a bad idea. That way you can put on more layers.

What kind of temps are you talking about anyway, chill?

A couple of weeks ago my friend and I did a century together, and it was cold all day - in the 40's windy. We thought it was going to warm up, so neither of us brought our shoe/toe covers. Midway, we were both freezing, and she finished her snacks and put the baggies around her feet in her shoes. She said it was great, her feet were sooo much warmer.

I's not a theoretically perfect solution, but it works -- a lot better than nothing, practically free, and does not require last minute shopping.

</defensiveness>

baggies or saran wrap around your feet. no really, i mean it.

I know that there is already a disagreement with this but I have done this and as long as you don't remove the plastic until it's warm and wonderful outside, you'll be fine. Don't enclose the whole foot. I usually cut up a sandwich bag so there is no "zip lock" part rubbing my foot and the cut it to width which means it has two open sides. Big toe goes into the closed side and it's closed in the front. Open side on outboard edge.

Works great. Your own heat traps in the bag and your toes stay warm. The bag should only go up about mid foot, not to your ankle.

This should be your second in line effort to fight the cold. First is toe warmers or booties. If that fails ADD the plastic and you'll be perfect

Another climber's trick is to wiggle your toes as often as possible. This sounds foolish, but works well, especially if done before your toes get really cold. Climbers will also pause to aggresively swing their legs back and forth, to force blood into the extremeties. This also works pretty well, but if you fall over while doing it on the bike I don't want to hear from your attorney.

Another climber's trick is to wiggle your toes as often as possible. This sounds foolish, but works well, especially if done before your toes get really cold. Climbers will also pause to aggresively swing their legs back and forth, to force blood into the extremeties. This also works pretty well, but if you fall over while doing it on the bike I don't want to hear from your attorney.
Nothing foolish about it at all. I do this all the time. Works for fingers too.

Have a glance over my "article" on Cold Feet in my "What Works For Me" section on my website. Maybe one of those options will work for you too. :)

http://www.machka.net/whatworks/whatworks.htm

I've been climbing with them for 15 years and we do use them with lighter shoes and non-insulated boots too, to keep the sock dry.

Yes, and they do help. But in fact, keeping the feet warm on a bike is much harder than in climbing unless your in extreme conditions of cold and altitude such as Everest. This is the picture I was trying to paint. With walking the feet get more blood circulation than in cycling. So the vapor barrier by itself only gains you a couple of degrees. Generally not effective by itself without added insulation and wind protection. However at 40F it is enough to get you home in better shape than with nothing. You could also put a small sandwich bag over just the toe of the shoe to block some of the cold wind penetration in an emergency situation in addition to the vapor barrier.

Getting off the bike and walking for 5 minutes will also help a great deal to warm up the foot. IF your not wearing road shoes.

As a climber, I don't especially care for vapor barrier socks. Maybe my feet sweat more than average, but they don't ever stop putting out moisture, so I end up with a pond at the end of the day. On multi-day climbs I'd seriously worry about trench foot. It's rare that a liner and an expedition weight SmartWool sock inside a plastic boot aren't warm enough for me. But then, I don't spend much time on Denali. :)

Regardless, I think the requirements of the high-altitude climber are much different from those of the long-distance cyclist. The climber is concerned primarily with conductive heat loss because he is walking through snow. The cyclist must be concerned with heat loss through convection (I hope I have these terms right; paramedic school was a long time ago) because he is moving through cold air at a much higher speed than the climber. (Unless the climber really screwed up.)

So IMO, the baggie-on-the-toes idea is quite useful for the cyclist, as it's blocking the wind, which is of enormous importance to the cyclist. Of course, the OP is apparently in the midst of his ride even as I speak, so probably isn't going to benefit from any of this anyway...

As a climber, I don't especially care for vapor barrier socks. Maybe my feet sweat more than average, but they don't ever stop putting out moisture, so I end up with a pond at the end of the day. On multi-day climbs I'd seriously worry about trench foot. It's rare that a liner and an expedition weight SmartWool sock inside a plastic boot aren't warm enough for me. But then, I don't spend much time on Denali. :)

Regardless, I think the requirements of the high-altitude climber are much different from those of the long-distance cyclist. The climber is concerned primarily with conductive heat loss because he is walking through snow. The cyclist must be concerned with heat loss through convection (I hope I have these terms right; paramedic school was a long time ago) because he is moving through cold air at a much higher speed than the climber. (Unless the climber really screwed up.)

So IMO, the baggie-on-the-toes idea is quite useful for the cyclist, as it's blocking the wind, which is of enormous importance to the cyclist. Of course, the OP is apparently in the midst of his ride even as I speak, so probably isn't going to benefit from any of this anyway...

I to have found vapour barriers to be of limited use for long term climbing use. However, they do help in cycling when combined with a little extra insulation and wind blocking. However, the biggest problem is still the constant pressure under the ball of the foot which reduces blood flow.

I think the double boot concept used in high altitude climbing is also going to work with cycling. I have this theory of the best way to keep cycling feet warm but the biggest catch is the lack of clearance between the crank and the foot.

Here is my solution.

1. Thin neoprene sock worn next to skin.
2. Medium thick wool sock.
3. Loose fitting cycling shoe. The stiffer the sole the
better.
4. Breathable shoe cover made of nylon, fleece, nylon
to cover shoe and which wraps under the sole of the
shoe. No one make these so DIY is needed.
5. SPD platform pedal in which the sole of the shoe rests on the platform as well as being snapped in. This spreads the force out over a greater area to increase blood flow. The larger the platform area the better.
6. Chemical under foot warmer if needed for really cold temps.

Yes, and they do help. But in fact, keeping the feet warm on a bike is much harder than in climbing unless your in extreme conditions of cold and altitude such as Everest. This is the picture I was trying to paint. With walking the feet get more blood circulation than in cycling. So the vapor barrier by itself only gains you a couple of degrees. Generally not effective by itself without added insulation and wind protection.

Completely disagree. Keeping feet warm while climbing is much harder than on a bike. At least in so far as I have experienced. The feet don't get more blood via walking than cycling. Climbing boots are stiff so the foot doesn't flex, just like a cycling shoe. A VB adds a lot more than a few degrees. While there is no insulation, it does eliminate evaporative heat loss and keep the sock layer completely dry. A wet layer can increase heat loss by up to 25 times. Even a sock that's slightly damp with perspiration will dramatically increase heat loss.

Would I wear them for a bike ride? Only in an emegency. A neoprene shoe cover is far more effective.

well i am glad to report that the feet were no too bad. i took sandwhich baggies just incase but they weren't needed. the ride from London to Paris was completed in under 24hours, with 10 minutes to spare!!!
many thanks all.