Living Car Free - Rudy Giuliani: The 1st car free President?

Intersting tid bit. Rudy Giuliani is the only presidential candidate who doesn't drive or own a car.

Just thought it was kind of cool that he was the only person running for President who has lived a car free lifestyle.

Here is a story on it from The Nation:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=194837

9-11 but you know 9-11 and of course 9-11but then you take into account 9-11after that happens you get 9-11 leading inexorably to 9-11and therefore 9-11 I named my dog 9-11 after Curly Joe there was 9-11 even if 9-11 makes a plopping sound like 9-11.

The ******bag lives in NYC, of course he has no car. Hitler was a vegetarian like me, but it wouldn't make me vote for him.

Oh, and in other news:




Giuliani's '$9.11' Pitch Criticized By Dodd
Calls Fundraising Tactic `Shameless'

By DAVID LIGHTMAN | Washington Bureau Chief
September 26, 2007




WASHINGTON - Rudy Giuliani's supporters are trying to raise money by asking for $9.11 from contributors, a tactic U.S. Sen. Christopher Dodd's campaign Tuesday called "shameless and sickening."

Giuliani, a Republican candidate for president, was mayor of New York City at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and his stump speech is full of recollections about how he took charge and became known as "America's Mayor."

The Associated Press reported that the "$9.11 for Rudy" campaign is part of a fundraising event scheduled for today in Palo Alto, Calif., at the home of Abraham Sofaer.

Sofaer, a Republican donor who was a State Department official in the Reagan administration, said the $9.11 contribution was not his idea. "There are some young people who came up with it," he told the AP.

Giuliani campaign officials said the idea was selected without their knowledge.

"These are two volunteers who acted independently of and without the knowledge of the campaign," campaign spokeswoman Maria Comella told AP. "Their decision to ask individuals for that amount was an unfortunate choice."

According to the invitation, "$9.11 for Rudy" is an "independent, non-denominational grass-roots campaign to raise $10,000 in small increments to show how many individual, everyday Americans support 'America's Mayor.'"

The Dodd campaign was quick to protest.

"Exploiting the Sept. 11th attacks for fundraising purposes is absolutely unconscionable, shameless and sickening," spokesman Colleen Flanagan said. "Mr. Giuliani was quick to express much vitriol for the independent ad created by MoveOn.org last week [that criticizes Gen. David Petraeus]. We would hope he would express the same kind of outrage and indignation about this group that he is the beneficiary of."

Flanagan added, "Mr. Giuliani should reject and/or return any money raised and ask that their activities on his behalf stop immediately."

Contact David Lightman at dlightman@courant.com.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-rudy0926.artsep26,0,1370826.story

Giuliani was driven everywhere when he was mayor. Mayor Bloomberg takes the subway.

Giuliani was driven everywhere when he was mayor. Mayor Bloomberg takes the subway.

Actually Bloomberg is driven to the subways. But I still got to give him points for at least making an effort.

Also I know for a fact that Giuliani lived car free and used mass transit before he was Mayor. I used to see him every once in awhile on the Subway before he was elected Mayor.

Actually Bloomberg is driven to the subways. But I still got to give him points for at least making an effort.

Also I know for a fact that Giuliani lived car free and used mass transit before he was Mayor. I used to see him every once in awhile on the Subway before he was elected Mayor.

I stand corrected. But I still think Bloomberg has done a lot more for the carfree movement than just about any other mainstream pol in America.

Giuliani was driven everywhere when he was mayor. Mayor Bloomberg takes the subway.

Sorta...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/nyregion/01bloomberg.html

My friend lives right by the station Bloomburg should take, no reason for him not to take it. And its the Upper East Side, so many other rich white people around, he should feel at home.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/08/01/nyregion/0801-web-BLOOMBERGB.jpg

The ******bag lives in NYC, of course he has no car. Hitler was a vegetarian like me, but it wouldn't make me vote for him.

Remember, freedom is about authority.

Ah bicyclists......

They never cease to amaze me.

Mention a republicans name and watch the left wing nutjobs make an ass outta themselves.

I was at an event here one time talking about how great bicycling was going to be in our city.

The person said, "That if George Bush doesnt turn it into F$^#@%# Nazism MAN!!!"

What an idiot.

and here I always thought the first car-free president of the USA was named George W

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ashington

Ah bicyclists......

They never cease to amaze me.

Mention a republicans name and watch the left wing nutjobs make an ass outta themselves.

I was at an event here one time talking about how great bicycling was going to be in our city.

The person said, "That if George Bush doesnt turn it into F$^#@%# Nazism MAN!!!"

What an idiot.Actually, the thread has been about how people who are shuttled about in limousines don't really count as "car-free." The fact that Giuliani is a heinous opportunist is just an entertaining aside. Please read the OP then the thread next time before responding.

That great!! He doesnt drive a car!! I'm sure he just rides around in 2 or 3 cars connected together called a limo. Yay, lets vote for him, hes car-free!!! :rolleyes:

The Giuliani administration decreased the car-free hours in Central Park and erected fences along sidewalks to keep pedestrians from crossing the street and inconveniencing auto traffic. Giuliani also manufactured a Metropolitan Transit Authority budget crisis that bumped bus and subway fares higher than was justified. New Yorkers surely do not remember that man as a friend to alternative transportation.

Wasn't posting this to be political or to advocate voting for one person or another. I just think it is interesting that there is a serious major party candidate for President that has had experience living without owning or driving a car.

While I am sure all the major candidates running for President get chauffeured in private cars and limos, in Giuliani's private life (i.e. when he is not running for president) he does use mass transit, walks and does not drive.

I am not saying this will make him a better or worst President just that it is an interesting fact that there is one Presidential candidate who is not part of the car culture.

in Giuliani's private life (i.e. when he is not running for president) he does use mass transit, walks and does not drive.

Really?

... Brad

Intersting tid bit. Rudy Giuliani is the only presidential candidate who doesn't drive or own a car.

Just thought it was kind of cool that he was the only person running for President who has lived a car free lifestyle.

Here is a story on it from The Nation:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=194837

I suspect that every president prior to W. Wilson was car free. I'm sure there were those in the 20th century that did not own a car either.

i would be willing to bet money that Guiliani hasn't taken mass transit in years, unless it is for a photo op. Also, that isn't an article about how Giuliani is living a car-free lifestyle, it's about how he gets driven around like all the other candidates, but at least he admits it.

Giuliani wouldn't be the first candidate by a longshot, even in the auto era. Mike Dukakis, when he was Governor of Massachusetts took the T to the state house every day.

*Parody topic*

Hillary Clinton: The 1st penis free president

Ah bicyclists......

They never cease to amaze me.

Mention a republicans name and watch the left wing nutjobs make an ass outta themselves.

This is the first time I've ever been called a "left wing nutjob."

The ******bag lives in NYC, of course he has no car. Hitler was a vegetarian like me, but it wouldn't make me vote for him.


Plenty of people living in Manhattan do have a car. Some have several.

Plenty of people living in Manhattan do have a car. Some have several.

Most don't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_most_households_without_a_car). I miss New York.

9-11 but you know 9-11 and of course 9-11but then you take into account 9-11after that happens you get 9-11 leading inexorably to 9-11and therefore 9-11 I named my dog 9-11 after Curly Joe there was 9-11 even if 9-11 makes a plopping sound like 9-11.

The ******bag lives in NYC, of course he has no car. Hitler was a vegetarian like me, but it wouldn't make me vote for him.

Oh, and in other news:




Giuliani's '$9.11' Pitch Criticized By Dodd
Calls Fundraising Tactic `Shameless'

By DAVID LIGHTMAN | Washington Bureau Chief
September 26, 2007




WASHINGTON - Rudy Giuliani's supporters are trying to raise money by asking for $9.11 from contributors, a tactic U.S. Sen. Christopher Dodd's campaign Tuesday called "shameless and sickening."

Giuliani, a Republican candidate for president, was mayor of New York City at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and his stump speech is full of recollections about how he took charge and became known as "America's Mayor."

The Associated Press reported that the "$9.11 for Rudy" campaign is part of a fundraising event scheduled for today in Palo Alto, Calif., at the home of Abraham Sofaer.

Sofaer, a Republican donor who was a State Department official in the Reagan administration, said the $9.11 contribution was not his idea. "There are some young people who came up with it," he told the AP.

Giuliani campaign officials said the idea was selected without their knowledge.

"These are two volunteers who acted independently of and without the knowledge of the campaign," campaign spokeswoman Maria Comella told AP. "Their decision to ask individuals for that amount was an unfortunate choice."

According to the invitation, "$9.11 for Rudy" is an "independent, non-denominational grass-roots campaign to raise $10,000 in small increments to show how many individual, everyday Americans support 'America's Mayor.'"

The Dodd campaign was quick to protest.

"Exploiting the Sept. 11th attacks for fundraising purposes is absolutely unconscionable, shameless and sickening," spokesman Colleen Flanagan said. "Mr. Giuliani was quick to express much vitriol for the independent ad created by MoveOn.org last week [that criticizes Gen. David Petraeus]. We would hope he would express the same kind of outrage and indignation about this group that he is the beneficiary of."

Flanagan added, "Mr. Giuliani should reject and/or return any money raised and ask that their activities on his behalf stop immediately."

Contact David Lightman at dlightman@courant.com.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-rudy0926.artsep26,0,1370826.story


It was the second poster that turned this thread into a cluster F%$^.

The OP was not saying to vote republican or even that he like Rudy. He was simply saying what he was saying.

Quoting from the OP's link to the news story:

Mr. "I Don't Drive" has placed himself in the unenviable position of looking a little like George Herbert Walker Bush marveling at the scanner machine on the supermarket checkout line. In a nation of for-better-or-worse car commuters, he has no interest in getting around the way the masses do -- nor even in pretending to know where the gas nozzle goes.

Note that Giuliani's "I Don't Drive" comment provoked an immediate ad hominem attack. There's more where that came from, I'm sure. And, as we know, politics is all about ad hominem attacks.

Most don't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_most_households_without_a_car). I miss New York.

This is sort of true, at least in Manhattan. I think that over 50% of households in Manhattan don't own a car. Most families that do own only one and most of them use the car to get to their weekend home or job outside Manhattan not for driving around the island.

How could you afford one in manhatten.

I had a friend who claims that when he lived in manhatten he knew several people making over 150k a year who could not of gathered up $50.00 cash if their life depended on it.

Ive never been to NYC so I really have no idea.

I just know that I can live like a king (I think so) in mid missouri and only have to work half the time if I wanted.

http://www.troubling.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/gyworudy2.gif (http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war68.html)

Ah bicyclists......

They never cease to amaze me.

Mention a republicans name and watch the left wing nutjobs make an ass outta themselves.

I was at an event here one time talking about how great bicycling was going to be in our city.

The person said, "That if George Bush doesnt turn it into F$^#@%# Nazism MAN!!!"

What an idiot.

Most of us on this forum manage to discuss controversial issues without generalizations about other members and stupid name calling. Why don't you try that sometime? It's really more fun for everybody.
:mad:

Meanwhile, an apology would be appreciated.

*Parody topic*

Hillary Clinton: The 1st penis free president

Can you prove that? :eek:

Intersting tid bit. Rudy Giuliani is the only presidential candidate who doesn't drive or own a car.

Just thought it was kind of cool that he was the only person running for President who has lived a car free lifestyle.

Here is a story on it from The Nation:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=194837

He may not own a car, but he's not car independent. He's not out there riding a bike for transportation or walking. He has people drive him around in a limo. Car free? What a joke!

How could you afford one in manhatten.

I had a friend who claims that when he lived in manhatten he knew several people making over 150k a year who could not of gathered up $50.00 cash if their life depended on it.


Plenty of families living in the burbs own two vehicles with car payments of over $500. That's just as expensive as owning one car in the city. The problem is justifying $1000 a month plus gas and insurance for a car that most Manhattan residents would only use at the weekend.

Your friend seems to have some friends with poor money management skills. That said, $150k a year is probably middle income in Manhattan. New condos are selling for $1300-$2000/sqft.

Most of us on this forum manage to discuss controversial issues without generalizations about other members and stupid name calling. Why don't you try that sometime? It's really more fun for everybody.
:mad:

Meanwhile, an apology would be appreciated.


Sorry but as a car free bicyclists I am constantly (monthly at least) bombarded with people making wild political statements assuming I feel the same way as them. I am so tired of all this stupid crap.

Just once I would like someone to mention a republicans name and not have to hear the type of dumb stuff that the second poster typed into this thread.

Im not even a republican but I just get tired of other peoples beliefs being tossed around when they are not relevent or neccesary. For example, cant I even read the car free forum of a bike board without someone tossing out left wing talking points?

Plenty of families living in the burbs own two vehicles with car payments of over $500. That's just as expensive as owning one car in the city. The problem is justifying $1000 a month plus gas and insurance for a car that most Manhattan residents would only use at the weekend.

Your friend seems to have some friends with poor money management skills. That said, $150k a year is probably middle income in Manhattan. New condos are selling for $1300-$2000/sqft.

Anyone with a car payment has poor money management skills. I just thought I would mention that for the hell of it.

Anyone with a car payment has poor money management skills. I just thought I would mention that for the hell of it.

Not true. Depends on the interest rate they are paying on the car loan or lease and in the case of a lease, the residual value used to calculate the payment.

Not true. Depends on the interest rate they are paying on the car loan or lease and in the case of a lease, the residual value used to calculate the payment.


Yes it is true. Read "How to Live Well Without Owning a Car" by Chris Balish,Chapter 2 The True Cost of Financing Your Car.

Also read "Divorce Your Car" by Katie Alvord, Chapter 9 Not a Cheap Date: The Real Cost of Cars.

Not true. Depends on the interest rate they are paying on the car loan or lease and in the case of a lease, the residual value used to calculate the payment.

Thats a bunch of BS.

I heard a guy call Dave Ramsey one day saying he was going to finance a new car because it was 0% interest.

Dave said, "hey your car is going to be depreciating by a couple hundred dollars per month.....thats NOT ZERO PERCENT."

ha ha ha

I think anyone with true money managing skills does not borrow money. There are those who pretend to have money skills but Im a believer in paying cash for things or waiting.

There are many, many folks who were going to cut a fat hog in the ass by buying too much house on credit.......now they find out the bank really owns the house and they have no where to live.

Thats a bunch of BS.

I heard a guy call Dave Ramsey one day saying he was going to finance a new car because it was 0% interest.

Dave said, "hey your car is going to be depreciating by a couple hundred dollars per month.....thats NOT ZERO PERCENT."

ha ha ha

I think anyone with true money managing skills does not borrow money. There are those who pretend to have money skills but Im a believer in paying cash for things or waiting.

There are many, many folks who were going to cut a fat hog in the ass by buying too much house on credit.......now they find out the bank really owns the house and they have no where to live.

There are times when debt is not bad...but those times are few and far in between. Its also a matter of risk management. If you can borrow money to operate a business and shelter your personal money, then debt is not a bad thing. By borrowing some money, you can purchase a larger asset base to get a return off of. This is called leverage. However, leverage can be a two edged sword and cut you when you are not looking. Proper money management requires knowledge, patience, and persistence. A lot of people want to just operate on "cruise control" and by doing so, they are not managing their exposure to risk and should therefore avoid debt. This is why Dave Ramsey preaches what he does.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the "debt is stupid" mentality at all. I would concur that debt should be taken for those items whose value will last for a long time. Very few people would debate that this is the case with houses. While I know there are exceptions, few people can afford to buy a house outright these days. Furthermore, since you can deduct the interest on your taxes, it can really help to have that outstanding loan, especially if you have a decent income. Now, I will agree that far too many people buy far too much house. My friends always ask me why I bought in the area I did for the low price I did (just under 100K in a getting-less-sketchy-by-the-day neighborhood downtown), when I could afford much more. The answer is simple to me, but lost on them. I didn't want to be saddled with a huge payment that I could only afford teh day I bought it. SOme of these same folks are worried about losing their houses because their payments are going up $200-$300 per month because of taxes. Mine could do the same and I'd still be relatively comfortable.
Houses aren't the only for which it makes sense to go into debt. Education is another. Yes, student loans suck; but they are certainly a form of responsible debt. If they're your only option, they make much more sense than allowing the cost-prohibitive nature of education force you to not obtain one.
Paying for your kid's birthday party at Chuck-E-Cheese on your Visa? Yes, then I agree with what was said about debt.
My new Cervelo w/ Dura Ace? Well, I paid 75% cash for it, but the credit card bill will be paid off in two months.

Of course he doesn't need a car. He's planning on riding 9-11 from now until the end of the earth. :D

... Brad

Robert Moses never had a driver's license and didn't drive. A car-free poineer?

I think anyone with true money managing skills does not borrow money. There are those who pretend to have money skills but Im a believer in paying cash for things or waiting.

You think that because your own money management skills are poor. If someone offers you no strings attached 0% financing for something you were going to buy anyway and pay cash you would have to be financially ******** not to take the free money and bank the cash in an interest bearing account (you can get close to 5% now).

Oh and the car will depreciate the same amount however you decided to pay for it (unless you lease).

Yes it is true. Read "How to Live Well Without Owning a Car" by Chris Balish,Chapter 2 The True Cost of Financing Your Car.

Also read "Divorce Your Car" by Katie Alvord, Chapter 9 Not a Cheap Date: The Real Cost of Cars.

I don't need to read either book to know how much having a car costs. I can just check my financial records in Quicken.

Not true. Depends on the interest rate they are paying on the car loan or lease and in the case of a lease, the residual value used to calculate the payment.

Agreed. I missed out on 0% interest for 4 years on a new Honda van, mainly because even though it's 0% I didn't want payments. And it really was 0%, I read very carefully and there literally was "nothing to it". They simply wanted to move models, and were willing to offer that.

However, I've worked hard to get rid of car payments, and have savings. I'll just work a little harder for a little longer to save money for a quality used vehicle for my family.

I don't need to read either book to know how much having a car costs. I can just check my financial records in Quicken.

Of course that is not always going to work.

If I went out and bought a 15k car and had 250 dollar per month payments (I have no idea im making up these numbers) then my total car costs for that year would show $3000.00 that year cost of owning that car.

Three years later when I "trade in" my car for $4,000 dollars I somehow lost $11,000 even though my Quicken book would only show that owning that car cost me $9000.00

Now my next $15,000 car really cost me $17,000 because of the negative equity. You can see how this goes and some people do this their entire life.

The real story is that in 6 years you could spend $22,000 driving 15,000 dollar cars. Most people do dumb crap like this because all they can afford are payments and they want the warrenty.

Dumb **** like that is why most people are broke.

Take that $4000.00 per year and invest it in a good mutual fund at the historic market value that would be over 1/2 million dollars in 30 years.

Agreed. I missed out on 0% interest for 4 years on a new Honda van, mainly because even though it's 0% I didn't want payments. And it really was 0%, I read very carefully and there literally was "nothing to it". They simply wanted to move models, and were willing to offer that.

Given the time value of money, you should have bargained for a discount.

... Brad

...
I think anyone with true money managing skills does not borrow money. There are those who pretend to have money skills but Im a believer in paying cash for things or waiting...
The world is divided into savers and borrowers. It's about half and half. They get together at banks, credit unions, and financial markets. As long as everyone follows the rules, the savers and the borrowers help each other get what they want.

So explained the manager of the credit union at a big company I worked for a long time ago.

Um, I think George Washington was the first car-free president ;)

as far as debt vs. paying outright for a depreciating asset, it's pretty simple math.

if the interest rate is lower than what the principal could earn as an investment, it makes most financial sense to borrow. I.e. if car interest rate is 4%, and you can earn 5% in a cd, then it makes most sense to finance!

i financed my cars & house for exactly this reason. Right now, I could pay off my cars and house completely and be entirely debt free. but the interest rates on the financing is lower than what (I think and hope) I can earn by investing.

this is how banks stay in business, folks. They pay on low-interest loans (your savings, checking, cd's) and collect on high-interest loans (mortgages, etc etc). No black magic here.

cheers

Rudy Guliani isn't a republican, so why is this guy getting his panties in a bunch?

this is how banks stay in business, folks. They pay on low-interest loans (your savings, checking, cd's) and collect on high-interest loans (mortgages, etc etc). No black magic here.

cheers

Exactly. You just have to be sure to invest the money in a low/no risk investment or account for the risk some other way.

Of course that is not always going to work.

If I went out and bought a 15k car and had 250 dollar per month payments (I have no idea im making up these numbers) then my total car costs for that year would show $3000.00 that year cost of owning that car.

Three years later when I "trade in" my car for $4,000 dollars I somehow lost $11,000 even though my Quicken book would only show that owning that car cost me $9000.00



This would only be true for someone who didn't know how to use Quicken. If you take out a car loan you need to setup a loan account which your principle repayments get credited to. Interest payments should be charged to an expense category (probably a sub-category of auto called interest). You also need to setup an asset account whose opening balance equals the purchase price of the car. The balance in this account needs to be reduced periodically to track the used value of the car. These reductions should be charged to another sub-category of auto called deprecation. The asset account is still needed if you pay cash for the car. If you lease you can skip the asset and liability accounts and just charge the lease payments to a sub-category of auto (probably called lease or deprecation). In either case you will also want a few other sub-categories such as fuel, parking, tolls and repair.

You should go though a similar exercise when you buy a house.

Robert Moses never had a driver's license and didn't drive. A car-free poineer?


I doubt it. Car-free living is the oldest lifestyle in the world.

Paying for your kid's birthday party at Chuck-E-Cheese on your Visa? Yes, then I agree with what was said about debt. Why not, what's wrong with that? This is just a method of payment. Faster and easier than with cash, and with some cards you even get cash back. If you're doing it because you have no money at all at the moment, then yes, probably not very smart.