It just occurred to me last night that I'm not entirely sure if my frame will fit. I'm 5'4" and I ordered the 52cm (the smallest size IRO offers). I can usually get away with a 52cm, but my other cross bike is a 50, and I felt like it was too large racing this year. So there might be an extra 52cm orange available in a few weeks.


You might take a look at the stand over height posted on IRO's site, it is 29.5". Measure your inseam if you don't know it and see if you have some room, if you do I would worry about it not fitting.

It just occurred to me last night that I'm not entirely sure if my frame will fit. I'm 5'4" and I ordered the 52cm (the smallest size IRO offers). I can usually get away with a 52cm, but my other cross bike is a 50, and I felt like it was too large racing this year. So there might be an extra 52cm orange available in a few weeks.

Check out the geometry of the RR on the IRO website, you'll find that they run small.

I've got a crankset question.

Practically speaking, what are the consequences of having a track hub (42mm chainline) or ss mtb hub (52mm chainline) in regards to crankset? I'm not sure I really understand what it will mean because it seems I wouldn't be able to use a mtn crankset, for instance, if I had a track hub in the rear? Even if I only had 1 ring on it?

Someone care to school me? I'm deciding if I should go cheap (nashbar hub) or nice (paul hub) on my rob roy wheels.

^^^

Go with a Formula hub. They are cheap, durable, and you can replace the bearings for Phil Woods for under $20 for both wheels.

I've got a crankset question.

Practically speaking, what are the consequences of having a track hub (42mm chainline) or ss mtb hub (52mm chainline) in regards to crankset? I'm not sure I really understand what it will mean because it seems I wouldn't be able to use a mtn crankset, for instance, if I had a track hub in the rear? Even if I only had 1 ring on it?

Someone care to school me? I'm deciding if I should go cheap (nashbar hub) or nice (paul hub) on my rob roy wheels.

Ideally on a SS and FG you want to run the chainline as minimal as possible. The IRO/Formula hubs are bomb proof and very cost effective. I had IRO build me a set of the 'dark matter' all black wheels about 3 years ago and they are going very strong even with many thousands of miles and plenty of hits, jumps, and crashes. IRO can be had from Pricepoint.com now and they ship same day.

I don't think you can find a lower cost SS/FG wheelset that hold up to the abuse I have put mine through, they incorporate very good components. I have replaced the cartridge bearings once, but that wasn't because I had to, I wanted to try out a hybrid ceramic setup. Can't say that I felt a difference other than smoothness but you really wont, seat of the pants anyway.

As far as a crankset, choose a road set, I prefer the compact setup. I have the FSA Carbon Pro Compact set on my FG that uses an ISIS BB, got it a Pricepoint.com for 169.00 quite a while back. It has worked very well for me. I run a 47/16 or 15 and put the chainring on the inner ring of the crank with single stack bolts.

My cross build is using a compact road crank as well and this is what most cross bikes are running.

I second that. I had a set of IRO wheels that I bought several years ago, much abuse and they are still going strong...

I also ordered another set for my RR

the IRO wheels are a best bang for the buck deal

The question is about what does a 42mm or 52mm chainline mean when it comes to cranksets? Could I use a road crankset (inner w/ cog, outer w/ guard) with a 42mm chainline just by using a different bb or are road cranksets too bb specific, for instance?

I'm not worried about durability with either hub, the advantage of the paul is it's about 70 grams lighter and the flanges are wider apart so that's why I'm considering it. It's not even prohibitively expensive at $85. But there's lots of other things to consider so I'm looking at it from every angle and what I need right now is some input on what the consequences of having a 42mm chainline will be?

The question is about what does a 42mm or 52mm chainline mean when it comes to cranksets? Could I use a road crankset (inner w/ cog, outer w/ guard) with a 42mm chainline just by using a different bb or are road cranksets too bb specific, for instance?

I'm not worried about durability with either hub, the advantage of the paul is it's about 70 grams lighter and the flanges are wider apart so that's why I'm considering it. It's not even prohibitively expensive at $85. But there's lots of other things to consider so I'm looking at it from every angle and what I need right now is some input on what the consequences of having a 42mm chainline will be?

I don't believe you will find a consequence other than wider flange hubs are typically less flexy wheelsets, but you wont have that problem with the IRO wheels/hubs. The road cranks you will find more availability on chainrings by a large margin compared to mtn cranks.

Considering cranks I think I'm going to go with something rugged and cheap because it seems to get any significant weight savings you need to spend a boat-load. I've been checking out Sinz bmx cranks. The arms cost $50, look cool, and weigh less than 500 grams.

The question is about what does a 42mm or 52mm chainline mean when it comes to cranksets? Could I use a road crankset (inner w/ cog, outer w/ guard) with a 42mm chainline just by using a different bb or are road cranksets too bb specific, for instance?

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/chainline

Typical "road" double cranks put the inner ring pretty close to 41 mm, so what you propose should work fine. You can fine tune the chainline by adding a spacer under the right-side mounting ring to move the whole bottom to the right.

Using a 52 mm chainline when you don't need it will result in an excessively wide tread (a.k.a. "Q factor.") Many riders find that very unpleasant.

Sheldon "Life, The Universe And Everything" Brown
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| I'm Sheldon Brown, and I approved this message. |
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I hadn't thought of ze q-factor. I'll have to check out my bikes and see what they're running and maybe go off of what's more comfortable (if either).

If you are going to go with a basic track hub with standard 42mm chainline, make your life easy and get a 130 bcd singlespeed crankset, such as a Sugino or IRO with the corresponding BB. They are cheap, light enough, and you'll have the right chainline without having to fiddle around with spacers etc.

... which will probably lead you to searching for a 103mm bottom bracket.

See IRO, Sugino and IRD - should run you about $30.00.

You should be able to find some old 130 BCD Sugino cranks for $5-10 online, or in a bike store that has lots of older pull-off components. The weight is effectively the same between an old set of cranks and anything modern in the sub-$100 range.

Dudes, this is my first brand new frame and I'm not doing old stuff, not this time. ALL my bikes are cobbled together from used and parted stuff, this one is gonna be new and I plan on racin' it. I'm just going for an economical, lightweight build, not super-cheap. But thanks for the input.

Dudes, this is my first brand new frame and I'm not doing old stuff, not this time. ALL my bikes are cobbled together from used and parted stuff, this one is gonna be new and I plan on racin' it. I'm just going for an economical, lightweight build, not super-cheap. But thanks for the input.

You may also want to consider going w/ an external bearing/hollow axle crankset. The "problem" with those is that you can't change the bb length to alter the chainline (I prefer a cassette hub to begin with so that's not an issue). I'm a big fan of the 110bcd FSA Gossamer and Shimano R700 cranks (skip the Truvativ Elita ... I've had nothing but bad experiences w/ the 2006/2007 versions).

With this wait, I feel like I should have just bought this (http://irofixedgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=19).

With this wait, I feel like I should have just bought this (http://irofixedgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=19).

Yep, I had a post to you with a link to that a couple days ago but it never made it up here. You certainly can still do it, it is a great deal! Also, you are getting such a good deal on the frame, just sell it for a small profit when it comes in. Order up the bargain and start riding it next week! I like that color that is pictured too.

Yep, I had a post to you with a link to that a couple days ago but it never made it up here. You certainly can still do it, it is a great deal! Also, you are getting such a good deal on the frame, just sell it for a small profit when it comes in. Order up the bargain and start riding it next week! I like that color that is pictured too.

Nothing comes up on that link for me, just a blank IRO page that says "bargain basement, etc..."

What is it?

Nothing comes up on that link for me, just a blank IRO page that says "bargain basement, etc..."

What is it?

Well, it looks like IRO fixed the link, which had the bikes in the wrong category. It's this (http://irofixedgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=20).

So I went ahead with a 32 spoke front as opposed to the 28 I wanted. I would have saved... I dunno, 40 grams maybe, but pretty much my only hub choice for under $50 was an ultegra and I figured I'd err on the side of caution in terms of strength and save a few bucks to boot and just go 32 so I got a couple of sun me14a's from Ben's cycle.

Here's the exciting part- I got a nos suntour xc pro greaseguard hub for the front. Yay! I loves suntour hubs and it's just cool to have a slick vintage piece on the bike. It's also a really nice hub nearly as light as the ultegra, but cost me 1/2 as much.

The rear is still up for debate but I've been thinking if I could convince myself it would be a strong enough wheel and a qr would be OK for the rear, I've got another nos xc pro greaseguard freewheel hub at home too and I could certainly use that. It would most likely have to be dished though, and the flanges are closer together than even a track hub... but it sure would be cool to have greaseguard front and rear.

End of February? Factor in obligatory delay due to "unavoidable circumstances" and we won't be seeing these until the summer.

End of February? Factor in obligatory delay due to "unavoidable circumstances" and we won't be seeing these until the summer.

WTF are you talking about?

Two comments up is because of a post I wrote and then deleted. I talked with Tony and he said he was now expecting the frames at the end of February but hadn't received a shipping date yet. He said the group buy was getting held up by all the different companies getting bikes manufactured at the same time (the group buy happened to fall under the major 2008 production time line).

Well ya, when IROs are getting made at the same place as Surly or Jamis frames and one or both of those companies try to push their own production schedules forward, the smallest company is going to get bumped to the back of the line. There's too many factors to bother speculating when the frames will arrive, and it really is out of Tony's control.

I deleted my post because the only important point of it was that he didn't have a firm ship date yet. Keep waiting for the group buy or just put your money toward one of the regular Rob Roy frames instead.

Just in time to train for the 08 season!!!

jaggd, no offense meant by my comment btw.

Two comments up is because of a post I wrote and then deleted. I talked with Tony and he said he was now expecting the frames at the end of February but hadn't received a shipping date yet. He said the group buy was getting held up by all the different companies getting bikes manufactured at the same time (the group buy happened to fall under the major 2008 production time line).

Well ya, when IROs are getting made at the same place as Surly or Jamis frames and one or both of those companies try to push their own production schedules forward, the smallest company is going to get bumped to the back of the line. There's too many factors to bother speculating when the frames will arrive, and it really is out of Tony's control.

I deleted my post because the only important point of it was that he didn't have a firm ship date yet. Keep waiting for the group buy or just put your money toward one of the regular Rob Roy frames instead.

Okay, thanks. BTW, they really don't have any RR's in stock at all except maybe a 54 or smaller, I checked. Wait it out I guess...

I would have never bought the bike otherwise so I don't mind waiting.

Yeah it sucks, but I could have been born without legs or arms too, so...

Encouraging words, I think.

I already had a Rob Roy ready to build up when the group buy got announced, so I sold that off to finance an orange one instead. The wait has been longer than expected but when I step back and think about it I realize I'll have it in time for spring, it'll be there all summer for whatever cross country mayhem I subject myself to and I'll have more than enough time to train on it and get ready for the 2008 season.

In the grand scheme of things it's not even a hassle because I'm still going to end up with a sweet orange singlespeed 'cross frame from an awesome company that only a few other people from some silly internet forum I'm addicted to have as well. I look forward to spotting my first "other" group buy Rob Roy at a race or out on the trails. :)

In the grand scheme of things it's not even a hassle because I'm still going to end up with a sweet orange singlespeed 'cross frame from an awesome company that only a few other people from some silly internet forum I'm addicted to have as well. I look forward to spotting my first "other" group buy Rob Roy at a race or out on the trails. :)

QFT!

In the grand scheme of things it's not even a hassle because I'm still going to end up with a sweet orange singlespeed 'cross frame from an awesome company that only a few other people from some silly internet forum I'm addicted to have as well. I look forward to spotting my first "other" group buy Rob Roy at a race or out on the trails.

Very well put. I'll shut up now.

Yeah, I actually wondered about that... Anyone think Tony might have ordered an extra 200+ frames, other than ours, in "special" orange and green that will show up for sale on the website? He is restocking the RR frame at the same time he is group buying for us, he hardly has any RR's at all. Not complaining, so don't think that I am, just speculation.

Well ya, it would make sense that if he was having 200 (or whatever) made for the group buy that he'd restock the mass market ones as well. Maybe he was selling off all the "old" ones in anticipation of changing the colour of the frame. It would also make sense to bring in a few extra group buy frames in each size just to serve as a buffer for any logistical ****-ups and make sure everyone gets what they ordered.

It would also make sense to bring in a few extra group buy frames in each size just to serve as a buffer for any logistical ****-ups and make sure everyone gets what they ordered.

He did during the last group buy, so this is almost certain. It's pretty standard practice for anyone in retail.

looks like this guy (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Neil-O-Murphy-Bicycle-Company_W0QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQtZkm) bought a lot of the surplus group buy frames from the ss/fg round and is trying to turn 'em out on ebay.

Two comments up is because of a post I wrote and then deleted. I talked with Tony and he said he was now expecting the frames at the end of February but hadn't received a shipping date yet. He said the group buy was getting held up by all the different companies getting bikes manufactured at the same time (the group buy happened to fall under the major 2008 production time line).

Well ya, when IROs are getting made at the same place as Surly or Jamis frames and one or both of those companies try to push their own production schedules forward, the smallest company is going to get bumped to the back of the line. There's too many factors to bother speculating when the frames will arrive, and it really is out of Tony's control.

I doubt any reputable manufacturer would bump the run in favor of someone else's, no matter what the size of the company wanting things bumped. However, IRO maybe caught up in the same kind of delays everyone experiences during manufacturers' busy season(s).

The group buy bikes may be a quantity tacked onto an order of RRs already placed, in which case, the manufacturer could be justified in in a delay with the change of order. Especially since these are special colors.

Cheer up--if the arrival date here is "late-Feb", then they should be on a boat sometime in the next week or so.

looks like this guy (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Neil-O-Murphy-Bicycle-Company_W0QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQtZkm) bought a lot of the surplus group buy frames from the ss/fg round and is trying to turn 'em out on ebay.

looking at the close-ups in his auction really makes me want my Rob Roy... really nice construction/finish...

As long as they're here in time for CX season 2008 (meaning by june or july so i've got time to build it up), i'll be happy. :D

i'm building mine as a commuter, so whenever would be good...

of course, i've not got anything but brakes for it yet.

looks like this guy (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Neil-O-Murphy-Bicycle-Company_W0QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQtZkm) bought a lot of the surplus group buy frames from the ss/fg round and is trying to turn 'em out on ebay.

Sort of OT, but that operation is pretty sketchy. They clearly buy stock bikes complete from IRO and Bikes Direct, and then part them out for eBay sale, or else put the parts on some janky thrift-store Schwinn and try to get $400 for them. I'm Mr. Capitalism, and I think you should sell whatever people will buy, but their little operation is too much for even me.

Sort of OT, but that operation is pretty sketchy. They clearly buy stock bikes complete from IRO and Bikes Direct, and then part them out for eBay sale, or else put the parts on some janky thrift-store Schwinn and try to get $400 for them. I'm Mr. Capitalism, and I think you should sell whatever people will buy, but their little operation is too much for even me.

Yeah, also note that he's selling a couple of the BFFG group buy Angus frames-- which were less than $200 to begin with-- at a full $150 more (http://cgi.ebay.com/IRO-Special-RED-Fixed-Gear-Track-Frame-Fork-50-NR_W0QQitemZ230206033853QQihZ013QQcategoryZ98084QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) ($488!) than the regular price Angus ($329). Pretty ridiculous.

Also, is this guy powdercoating low-end 70s road frames and marketing them for fixed gear? The dropouts and stamped brake bridge on this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-STEEL-nomcos-Bike-Frame-Frameset-Fixed-Gear-55cm_W0QQitemZ230207992112QQihZ013QQcategoryZ98084QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) look...not so awesome.

Exactly. Sooooooooooooooo shady.

This jack@ss painted an old HUFFY.

I doubt any reputable manufacturer would bump the run in favor of someone else's, no matter what the size of the company wanting things bumped. However, IRO maybe caught up in the same kind of delays everyone experiences during manufacturers' busy season(s).

I just heard from a shop friend that Surly caused a big back-up at their factory (which I believe is Maxway, same as IRO) with the production and painting of their new Big Dummy frame. I guess it it's newness and size were troublesome for the builders, so production of other frames slowed or ceased altogether. That could explain a delay in getting our RRs.

Yeah, also note that he's selling a couple of the BFFG group buy Angus frames-- which were less than $200 to begin with-- at a full $150 more (http://cgi.ebay.com/IRO-Special-RED-Fixed-Gear-Track-Frame-Fork-50-NR_W0QQitemZ230206033853QQihZ013QQcategoryZ98084QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) ($488!) than the regular price Angus ($329). Pretty ridiculous.

Also, is this guy powdercoating low-end 70s road frames and marketing them for fixed gear? The dropouts and stamped brake bridge on this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-STEEL-nomcos-Bike-Frame-Frameset-Fixed-Gear-55cm_W0QQitemZ230207992112QQihZ013QQcategoryZ98084QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) look...not so awesome.
I'd be willing to bet that he picked up a bunch of overstock frames from Tony. There is no money to be made buying bikes at full price, powder coating them, and parting them out. The cost to profit ratio just isn't there. Think about things like the time needed to do all this and shipping costs. Would you work for a few dollars an hour?

The guy has powder coated the frames, which cost him money. So for $150 you get a better tube set than the standard Angus and a nice finish. Fair enough, really.

The frame with the odd brake bridge is a very common cheap European commuter frame.

<snip>
I just heard from a shop friend that Surly caused a big back-up at their factory (which I believe is Maxway, same as IRO) with the production and painting of their new Big Dummy frame. I guess it it's newness and size were troublesome for the builders, so production of other frames slowed or ceased altogether. That could explain a delay in getting our RRs.
</snip>

Aye, that sounds legit. Curse our order getting caught up in 08 new bike production madness. The key to getting a group buy fast would be for the company offering the frame to do so during Maxway's less busy time. Might even get a break on pricing if they really need the work...

I'd be willing to bet that he picked up a bunch of overstock frames from Tony. There is no money to be made buying bikes at full price, powder coating them, and parting them out. The cost to profit ratio just isn't there. Think about things like the time needed to do all this and shipping costs. Would you work for a few dollars an hour?

Why would he purchase these group buy frames at $329? They're surplus items -- that he acquired from the reseller (IRO) in bulk, no less-- I would expect he paid a fair bit less than full retail.

The guy has powder coated the frames, which cost him money. So for $150 you get a better tube set than the standard Angus and a nice finish. Fair enough, really.

I'd bet that the $488 frames are repainted items that were scratched / chipped on the way to IRO. Why not just state that instead of trumping up this fake "Nomco" brand? Even with the fancy-er tubeset, it's close to $300 more than what those exact frames cost IRO / group buy participants. (Funny, a brand new Angus also sports a "nice finish" for $150 less....)

The frame with the odd brake bridge is a very common cheap European commuter frame.

Yeah, and probably worth about $20... the kind of frame you wouldn't waste a powdercoat on. Of course, the seller would rather blather on about "black steel" and "a sturdy foundation for your project", all in the name of wringing $188 out of a powdercoated thrift store boatanchor.

I'm fine with sellers making money. But calling things "limited edition" and doubling the price is, as has been said before, "sketchy".

Anyway, can't wait for the Rob Roys to show up.

During the Group Buy, Tony posted a list that showed all buyers and what they had ordered, so we could make sure everything was correct before he put the order in. There was one buyer who had ordered two or three of each frame in various sizes, and I think we can safely assume that buyer was "Nomco." Also, the Dedacciai tubing Tony used isn't really anything other than straight-gauge 4130, which means that it's the same thing as the cheaper IRO frames. One can buy an Angus or Mark V with higher quality Reynolds 631 tubing for less than this jackass is marking up his group buy frames.

I suspect that he ordered quite a few Rob Roys, so keep your eyes peeled for powder-coated frames for $488 this summer.

Why would he purchase these group buy frames at $329? They're surplus items -- that he acquired from the reseller (IRO) in bulk, no less-- I would expect he paid a fair bit less than full retail.



I'd bet that the $488 frames are repainted items that were scratched / chipped on the way to IRO. Why not just state that instead of trumping up this fake "Nomco" brand? Even with the fancy-er tubeset, it's close to $300 more than what those exact frames cost IRO / group buy participants. (Funny, a brand new Angus also sports a "nice finish" for $150 less....)



Yeah, and probably worth about $20... the kind of frame you wouldn't waste a powdercoat on. Of course, the seller would rather blather on about "black steel" and "a sturdy foundation for your project", all in the name of wringing $188 out of a powdercoated thrift store boatanchor.

I'm fine with sellers making money. But calling things "limited edition" and doubling the price is, as has been said before, "sketchy".

Anyway, can't wait for the Rob Roys to show up.

It's nothing sketchier than riding $200 track cranks on the street or boutique hubs and claiming how much better a ride they are. If people are willing to pay more for a different color frame so what? FG is a fashion right now, and people will pay high dollar for fashion items. Wait a year or two, and if you are still riding FG snap up lots of nice parts at garage sales.

The Euro commuter bike is a total POS, but so are many things slaves to fashion buy. The world isn't going to change, so you'll just have to accept it.