A savvy bicyclist learns to position himself relative to the lane stripe to his left, which all other drivers track against, not the curb to the right.
So you're saying if you were riding a 10' wide lane, and position yourself, say, 4' from the left stripe... and then the lane widens to 20' you would still ride 4' from the white stripe?

Either your a bad cyclist, or you're just making up that idea. I think if the road widens you tend to move right, and if the road narrows you tend to move left. Which means that you are tracking against the curb, not the left stripe. Of course other factors come into play.
No, I'm not saying that at all.

If I'm in a 10' lane 4' from the left stripe, then I have 6' to my right.
If the lane widens to 20' then it's probably safe and reasonable to move aside, to say 10-12' from the left stripe, when there is reason to do so (i.e., the presence of faster same direction traffic, or the need to turn right).

The whole point about thinking of your position relative to the left edge of the lane rather than the right edge is to more aware of when you are moving laterally within the lane relative to other vehicular traffic.
If your position is based on maintaining a safe distance from the right edge, then you are prone to moving laterally (relative to the left stripe and other traffic) while it feels to you like you're maintaining a steady course (relative to the right side). See my diagram a few posts back.

If no one is behind you trying to pass, why move right just because the lane widens?

The whole point of tracking against the lane line is to be part of the normal traffic flow. Most traffic (excluding most cyclists) tracks agains the center yellow line (or left line of the right lane). Doing so as a cyclist puts you right where other traffic will be looking for traffic. Following the (in my experience) arbitrary placement of the right edge of the road often puts you in a place you don't want to be (i.e. stuck against the curb in a narrowing lane).
At any given point whether you are tracking your lateral position relative to the left stripe or the right edge doesn't matter (in a 10' lane, 6' from the left = 4' from the right; it makes no difference).

Which side you're tracking your position from only matters when lane width changes (and by "lane width" I mean "width of effective usable space within the lane").

So the whole point of tracking against the lane line is to be part of the normal traffic flow, but, more precisely, it's to maintain your position relative to other traffic flow effectively, which is especially important when you're in a sharing position in a wide lane and approaching a narrowing situation.

head, I find your insistence repulsive.

you and I and the rest of the forum knows your tecnhique of riding left biased, and moving out of the way when you find it safe to do so, does NOT apply to narrow lanes.

we also know it doesn't work when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested, and you are in a shareable lane. your entire fear-based safety tecnhique of the 'powerweave' falls completely apart once traffic becomes steady or heavy in shareable lanes.

explain to the forum your lane position when a lane is wide enough to share and traffic is steady.

explain where you position yourself, and how, in a shareable lane, when traffic is steady. assume very short breaks in traffic, not significant in gap for you to move left.

What does head do then??? how does he ride?

To hug the road edge is to not only invite being buzzed, but also, debris is strewn on some road edges, thown there from passing cars. It's just not the best place to ride your bike. When on a narrow section of road (Usually I encounter them in relatively short sections of road), I signal my intent, take the lane, riding through as quickly and efficiently as I can, all the while signalling with my hands (arm extended downward with palms facing the ground). This tells motorist to give me a moment to get out of the way. A jerk will ignore my signal, but I have no control over him/her anyway. A reasonalble man/woman would cut me a break. Once through the narrow section, smile and wave. If the roadway is too long, narrow and busy, I would find another route.

So the whole point of tracking against the lane line is to be part of the normal traffic flow, but, more precisely, it's to maintain your position relative to other traffic flow effectively, which is especially important when you're in a sharing position in a wide lane and approaching a narrowing situation.

THAT is complete nonsense, head, and you and I and the rest of the forum knows it.

riding in a shared lane, in the sharing position, means you are riding far enough right to allow other traffic to pass. taking a safe lane position to the right, NOT using the left lane stripe to 'track'.

what inflated, unrealistic blather. worthless hyperbole.

...Experience is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to a situation, and can be the wrong one easily.I don't think anyone would disagree with this.i can't believe anyone would agree with it.

riding in a shared lane, in the sharing position, means you are riding far enough right to allow other traffic to pass. taking a safe lane position to the right, NOT using the left lane stripe to 'track'.

When there is other traffic present and 'desiring' to pass in same lane and no other potential or actual hazard there is nothing wrong with moving right in to share the lane if it is wide enough. Then move back to the default position when there is no other immediate traffic using the same lane.

Al

noisebeam - al -

when a rider IS in the 'sharing' position in a wide lane, they ARE ALREADY RIDING TO THE RIGHT IN A SAFE LANE POSITION. it is emphatically NOT using the left lane stripe to track ones' road position.

and when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested in a wide lane, claims of using the left lane stripe is worthless forum semantics that do not echo on the road realities of bicycling.

worthless hyperbole from helemt head and the 'move right' bliviots.

head, I find your insistence repulsive.

you and I and the rest of the forum knows your tecnhique of riding left biased, and moving out of the way when you find it safe to do so, does NOT apply to narrow lanes.

we also know it doesn't work when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested, and you are in a shareable lane. your entire fear-based safety tecnhique of the 'powerweave' falls completely apart once traffic becomes steady or heavy in shareable lanes.

explain to the forum your lane position when a lane is wide enough to share and traffic is steady.

explain where you position yourself, and how, in a shareable lane, when traffic is steady. assume very short breaks in traffic, not significant in gap for you to move left.

What does head do then??? how does he ride?
I don't know why you want to bring up wide lane positioning in a thread about narrow lanes, but if there is shareable width in a lane (mean both bike and car can fit in the lane safely side-by-side, with at least 3' between them and this not forcing the cyclist to be too close to the curb, car doors or other hazards) with steady same direction faster traffic, and it is safe and reasonable to use the sharing/secondary position, then I use it, of course. Generally, that means I'm riding about 3' to the right of the overtaking traffic.

But I hardly ever find myself in situations for significantly long periods of time without any significantly long gaps in same direction traffic, especially in urban and suburban environments where traffic signals constantly break things up. And as soon as there is a gap of any significant length, I look back (to make sure it's clear) and move back to my primary "centerish" (between the left and right tire tracks/grooves) position. This isn't rocket science, Beck. It's straight out of John Franklin's book, Cyclecraft. Do you guys carry it or any other book on traffic cycling in your shop?

So the whole point of tracking against the lane line is to be part of the normal traffic flow, but, more precisely, it's to maintain your position relative to other traffic flow effectively, which is especially important when you're in a sharing position in a wide lane and approaching a narrowing situation.
THAT is complete nonsense, head, and you and I and the rest of the forum knows it.

Your misunderstanding of it is what is complete nonsense.

riding in a shared lane, in the sharing position, means you are riding far enough right to allow other traffic to pass. taking a safe lane position to the right, NOT using the left lane stripe to 'track'.
Yes, precisely.

But here's my point. If you're positioning yourself relative to the right edge, then you might easily think you're just maintaining course as you stay positioned about the same distance to the curb, oblivious to the fact that the lane is narrowing and that you are effectively moving into the right-of-way of overtaking traffic.

what inflated, unrealistic blather. worthless hyperbole.
I think you're still not getting it. Did you look at my diagram? Here's another one that even more subtle because it's the left side that appears to be moving in to cause the narrowing.

55822

Do you recognize that relative to normal traffic flow in that lane that the curb-tracking cyclist (green) is moving into the right-of-way of the overtaking vehicle (purple), and needs to yield to it? That most cyclists don't understand this is the cause of much of the cyclist/motorist conflict out there.

little big man...I call bull.
Go ride your bike. It will clear your head.

:)

(Geez, Bek, all this "You're lying..." "..no, you're lying!" is such chidlish nonsense...)

little big man, you can claim all drivers respect bicyclists and fully change lanes to pass bicyclists in Atlanta, and I call your bluff. there's nothing 'childish' about it except your insistence in contrived utopian bicycling conditions in Atlanta.

And HH,
overtaking traffic DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY. Additionally, when you are IN a sharing position, a bicyclist does NOT track according to the left edge of the lane.

Head, you even agree with my disputing your claim of using the left lane stripe.... where I state "riding in a shared lane, in the sharing position, means you are riding far enough right to allow other traffic to pass. taking a safe lane position to the right, NOT using the left lane stripe to 'track'."

you agree "precisely" with my clarification of your misleading the forum with your fallacy.



In any conditions where traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested, along wide, shareable lanes, your powerweave technique does not apply.

i'll repeat:

when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested in a wide lane, claims of using the left lane stripe is worthless forum semantics that do not echo on the road realities of bicycling.

worthless hyperbole from helemt head and the 'move right' bliviots.

little big man, you can claim all drivers respect bicyclists and fully change lanes to pass bicyclists in Atlanta, and I call your bluff.
You can huff and puff all you want, buy you don't ride on my route. You don't have a clue.

Well, I had a really great ride home today, no honks, no close passes (an awful lot of frustrating drivers who were afraid to pass me, had to wave them on energetically.) Every time I signalled to move over, someone let me merge.

The more Mr. Beck disbelieves me, the more I'm glad I ride in Atlanta. (The really funny thing is, I don't have anything against Portland. I'm stumped why Beck is so eager to get everyone to think I'm a liar. :lol: I guess old prejudices die hard...)

dude, get a grip. Puget Sound is not anywhere near Portland.

regardless, I refuse to believe your claims the drivers in Atlanta are all politeness and respect.

what a stretch. let's just agree that I disagree with your assertions all drivers in atlanta, without exception, pass bicyclists by moving totally into the other lane....oh that's right, you ride a trike

and none of that has anything to do with Helemt Head's fallacies he purports in this thread about lane sharing and how he determines a lane position while sharing lanes.

dude, get a grip. Puget Sound is not anywhere near Portland.

regardless, I refuse to believe your claims the drivers in Atlanta are all politeness and respect.

what a stretch. let's just agree that I disagree with your assertions all drivers in atlanta, without exception, pass bicyclists by moving totally into the other lane....oh that's right, you ride a trike

and none of that has anything to do with Helemt Head's fallacies he purports in this thread about lane sharing and how he determines a lane position while sharing lanes.
I don't have anything against Pugetopolis, either. ;)

I never said that drivers in Atlanta are all politeness and respect. You made that up.

I said drivers almost always treat me respectfully, often timidly, when I'm riding my bike. I think you're the one who's lost his grip, because you refuse to interperet written English appropriately.

I also never said that "all drivers in Atlanta, without exception, pass bicyclists by moving totally into the other lane." Again, that's a dream you had.

I said that when I ride in the center of the lane (which is not all the time, but under certain circumstances,) drivers pass in the other lane, and I said that they sometimes pass entirely in the other lane when I'm in the right tire track.

I hope this is the last time I have to correct your poor quoting ability. It seems to be based on what you thought I said, not on what I actually said.

But as for your refusing to believe me, that's something I won't argue with. It seems to be something you desperately need to do.

now its "sometimes" drivers pass politely instead of the lazy pass? :rolleyes:

lazy pass does not always = impolite.

now its "sometimes" drivers pass politely instead of the lazy pass? :rolleyes:
Dam, buzz, you have a serious reading prob.

I didn't say, "sometimes drivers pass politely." I said, "sometimes [drivers] pass entirely in the other lane when I'm in the right tire track."

I also said, "drivers almost always treat me respectfully, often timidly, when I'm riding my bike."

Maybe you should go back to school before I redress any more of your posts.

Well, one more pleasant afternoon riding home.

But this time mostly on the arterial known as Decatur St./Dekalb Ave./Howard St./College Ave./Covington Hwy. It's a main artery from Five Points in the center of Atlanta eastward toward Stone Mountain.

I took the center of the lane when the lane was too narrow to share, and moved as far right as practical when it was not. This was from about 4:30 pm. to about 5:15 pm, maybe 10 miles (I was tired. :p )

I don't usually take such a direct route home in afternoon traffic, but I was tired and felt like getting home more quickly. I had no close passes. I had one polite honk (like, honk, honk, honk, very softly--but I could tell it was impatience.) I actually veered off the road to let traffic pass, and it cost me a light. ;)

One person actually passed, then pulled in front of me with emergency flashers on and escorted me a short distance (I didn't need it, but I felt a strange curiosity at this, I'd never seen the like before.)

Yep, all in all everyone was extremely nice (not like the freeway :rolleyes: )

Beck, this Bud's for you.

:beer:

again, how you acheive all this timidity from drivers is beyond comprehension. it's as if you ride in the twilight zone of politenessville, utopia. The Truman Show, perhaps?

this cup of coffee is for you, little big man. no sugar.

you must ride where the streets are paved with gold......

I have a sneaking suspicion that seasoned road bicyclists, without exception, could share multiple anecdotes of drivers getting agressive, reving engine, yelling out the window, angrily honking, etc. as the bicyclist rode in a lane too narrow to share.

Anyway, nice you live in such a polite place with such timid drivers :roflmao:

again, how you acheive all this timidity from drivers is beyond comprehension. it's as if you ride in the twilight zone of politenessville, utopia. The Truman Show, perhaps?

this cup of coffee is for you, little big man. no sugar.

you must ride where the streets are paved with gold......

I have a sneaking suspicion that seasoned road bicyclists, without exception, could share multiple anecdotes of drivers getting agressive, reving engine, yelling out the window, angrily honking, etc. as the bicyclist rode in a lane too narrow to share.

Anyway, nice you live in such a polite place with such timid drivers :roflmao:
HAHAHAHA!!! :roflmao:

"Seasoned road bicyclists..." :roflmao: You sound like you posess the golden key of road cycling. "Seasoned road bicyclists" sounds a lot like "competent cyclists" to me. :roflmao:

Please, let me have a copy of that golden key. I have always been jealous of cyclists who experience "...drivers getting agressive, reving engine, yelling out the window, angrily honking, etc. as the bicyclist rode in a lane too narrow to share."

Of course, a "seasoned road bicyclist" would know that "...revving engines, yelling out the window, and angrily honking" never hurt anyone (unless you count hurt feelings.)

But I do feel quite content not having to put up with very much of that.

Your curiosity about "how I acheive all this timidity from drivers" is easily answered.

I don't achieve it.

I don't achieve it any more than you achieve all the aggressiveness you seem to experience from drivers.

someone pass me the sugar.

someone pass me the sugar.
He'll need it. ;)

I've often wondered why you experience so much grief riding a bike, Beck. It's just not my normal experience.

um, it's due to a group of road users called 'motorists'

maybe I take the lane more than you? ;)

um, it's due to a group of road users called 'motorists'

maybe I take the lane more than you? ;)

How much more of the lane can you take than dead center?

oh, left side of a right hand lane. left hand lane on a four lane as I keep up with traffic. middle of 18 foot lanes while doing over the speed limit.

we must have all the agressive drivers out here, while Atlanta sounds remarkably free of agressive motorists.

can you ship some of that sugar you sprinkle the drivers with in Atlanta up Seattle way?

I must admit though, reviewing the 40 miles I rode today, remarkably devoid of agressive motorists. Several very close passes however. definetly NOT totally into the other lanes...

oh, left side of a right hand lane. left hand lane on a four lane as I keep up with traffic. middle of 18 foot lanes while doing over the speed limit.

This is unusual, how?

HH's diagram was cool and all, but for me the reason to use the left lane edge as the primary determinant of riding position is that this perspective gives you an awareness of the road as it is experienced by drivers.

The best way to even tell if a lane is wide enough to be shared is to view the left edge as you ride. Beyond that, you also need to know where a driver can go if he wants to overtake you. What are his options, as well as your own? Is there another lane, a LTO lane, or plenty of room in the right lane for him to move to as he overtakes you? Or does he have to enter the opposing lane? Does he have to pull totally out of the shared lane, pull out partially, or wait to pass you?

You really can't tell unless you look at the left edge, and use that knowledge to determine your own position within the lane. Safety on the road means safety for the driver, as well as yourself. Maybe some riders (Bek?) get buzzed more because they're not aware of the driver's options, or lack of options, when it comes to overtaking them.

HH's diagram was cool and all, but for me the reason to use the left lane edge as the primary determinant of riding position is that this perspective gives you an awareness of the road as it is experienced by drivers.

The best way to even tell if a lane is wide enough to be shared is to view the left edge as you ride. Beyond that, you also need to know where a driver can go if he wants to overtake you. What are his options, as well as your own? Is there another lane, a LTO lane, or plenty of room in the right lane for him to move to as he overtakes you? Or does he have to enter the opposing lane? Does he have to pull totally out of the shared lane, pull out partially, or wait to pass you?

You really can't tell unless you look at the left edge, and use that knowledge to determine your own position within the lane. Safety on the road means safety for the driver, as well as yourself. Maybe some riders (Bek?) get buzzed more because they're not aware of the driver's options, or lack of options, when it comes to overtaking them.
Exactly. It's all about considering the driver's perspective. After all, if you were on the same street on a closed course, you would almost certainly not be in a lane sharing positioning. Therefore, the reason you're in the lane sharing position, in the margin, is to share the wide lane with motorists: you are yielding your right of way to the remainder of the lane (the part that is not the margin) to the motorists.

If the lane doesn't narrow, you can't just move into that space from the margin. You need to yield to overtaking traffic in it, and negotiate until someone yields to you, before you move into it. Does anyone disagree with that?

I don't see why any of that would be expected to change by anyone, including overtaking drivers, simply because the reason you want to move laterally (relative to the left edge of the lane) out of the margin is because the lane is narrowing, and the margin you're using is disappearing. The right-of-way situation to that space outside of the margin is the same: you have yielded your right of way to it, and you need to yield to overtaking traffic, and negotiate, before you move into it. The reason you're moving is immaterial.

you guys are funny.

you guys are funny.

Funny as in chuckling softly in appreciation of another's wisdom?

helmet head is so confident in his 'second class road user' depending on lane position in a wide lane. its sad he's convinced himself of this erronous assumption. overtaking traffic is required to yield to traffic ahead of them as a lane narrows or otherwise becomes unshareable.

makes me wonder how he gets anywhere on a bike in traffic if he's always yielding to vehicles behind him. of course, if he's also fooled himself a look over his shoulder is a signal he's moving left, i guess his fantasy goes full circle.

roody, bicyclists get 'buzzed' regardless of their lane position. my lane position in a 'narrowing lane' has nothing to do with the lack of respect exhibited to bicyclists by motorists over the huge variety of road conditions we ride.

I sometimes get buzzed specifically FOR taking the center of a narrow lane....even when there's adequate room or a full other lane for cars to pass wide to the left. this is something most other seasoned road bicyclists can relate to.

obviously roody, you and head are either sugar coating your riding experiences (like little big man) or conjuring up contrived, utopian riding conditions due your 'lane position'

getting buzzed while taking the center of a narrow lane is a scenario most every bicyclist I've spoken with, without exception, has experienced.

its' only in this forum that bicyclists claim otherwise. so, i wonder about them.

helmet head is so confident in his 'second class road user' depending on lane position in a wide lane. its sad he's convinced himself of this erronous assumption. overtaking traffic is required to yield to traffic ahead of them as a lane narrows or otherwise becomes unshareable.

makes me wonder how he gets anywhere on a bike in traffic if he's always yielding to vehicles behind him. of course, if he's also fooled himself a look over his shoulder is a signal he's moving left, i guess his fantasy goes full circle.
Well before I get to the narrowing, I look back, and, if necessary, start negotiating to move left. In any case, by the time I get to the narrowing, I'm in a lane position controlling the lane. What I don't do is obliviously proceed to and through the narrowing in the disappearing margin, ending up too far to the right in a narrow lane.

getting buzzed while taking the center of a narrow lane is a scenario most every bicyclist I've spoken with, without exception, has experienced.

its' only in this forum that bicyclists claim otherwise. so, i wonder about them.
I've never see anyone in this forum claim that they never get buzzed while taking the center of a narrow lane. It does happen to me every few months.

Well before I get to the narrowing, I look back, and, if necessary, start negotiating to move left. In any case, by the time I get to the narrowing, I'm in a lane position controlling the lane. What I don't do is obliviously proceed to and through the narrowing in the disappearing margin, ending up too far to the right in a narrow lane.

and you think this is unique? :rolleyes:

regardless, riding safely, buffered from the right, in a narrowing lane, does NOT put a rider too far right in a narrow lane. what hysterics.

Maybe not unique, but it's very rare as compared to the vast majority of cyclists that I see riding who appear oblivious to recognizing the value of a centerish position in a narrow lane, much less recognizing the need to move into a lane-controlling position before they reach a narrowing section while still riding in the wide section.

no, its actually not that rare. you're not that special.

admit it, you just get worked up watching bicyclists thru your car windshield. i've seen you post about your 'windshield scolding' before....

One thing is for sure, Beck. You are special.

to steer this thread back to the original posters' questions, which discussed IF a bicyclist is positioned a safe distance from the side, is there a defacto reason to take the lane?

The core of what I'm saying is that (a) if you position yourself a safe distance from the curb then (b) is it really necessary to take the lane as a default.




There are certainly situations where I would take the lane, I'm just trying to show my default thinking. Is that how you decide your position?

I agree. If a bicyclist positions themself a safe distance from curb, etc, then it is NOT necessary to take the lane as a default position.

If a cyclist places themself on the road safely, they do not have to be in the middle of every lane.

there is no overwhelmingly obsessive, compelling reason to default to take the lane as a 'primary' position.

a savvy bicyclist will pick a safe lane position, adjust as needed, and keep on trucking.

But here's my point. If you're positioning yourself relative to the right edge, then you might easily think you're just maintaining course as you stay positioned about the same distance to the curb, oblivious to the fact that the lane is narrowing and that you are effectively moving into the right-of-way of overtaking traffic.

Why is it that you think that anyone riding that way is oblivious to the road conditions? That's not a given by any stretch of the imagination.

Seems to me that you should be concentrating your evangelism on is oblivious riders. Lane position is not necessarily an indicator of obliviousness.

helmet head is so confident in his 'second class road user' depending on lane position in a wide lane. its sad he's convinced himself of this erronous assumption. overtaking traffic is required to yield to traffic ahead of them as a lane narrows or otherwise becomes unshareable.

makes me wonder how he gets anywhere on a bike in traffic if he's always yielding to vehicles behind him. of course, if he's also fooled himself a look over his shoulder is a signal he's moving left, i guess his fantasy goes full circle.

roody, bicyclists get 'buzzed' regardless of their lane position. my lane position in a 'narrowing lane' has nothing to do with the lack of respect exhibited to bicyclists by motorists over the huge variety of road conditions we ride.

I sometimes get buzzed specifically FOR taking the center of a narrow lane....even when there's adequate room or a full other lane for cars to pass wide to the left. this is something most other seasoned road bicyclists can relate to.

obviously roody, you and head are either sugar coating your riding experiences (like little big man) or conjuring up contrived, utopian riding conditions due your 'lane position'

getting buzzed while taking the center of a narrow lane is a scenario most every bicyclist I've spoken with, without exception, has experienced.

its' only in this forum that bicyclists claim otherwise. so, i wonder about them.

I don't think I ever made any claims about getting buzzed or not getting buzzed. But since you asked....

I almost never get buzzed in the narrow fairly roads in Lansing. I get buzzed more--but still not a lot--in East Lansing and the suburbs, where the traffic is heavier and tends to move a little faster. I get buzzed more when I ride in bike lanes than I do on streets without bike lanes--but again, still not a lot. I would say that I get buzzed less than once a month, and I ride about 10 to 30 miles, seven days and seven nights a week.

You say you wonder about cyclists who claim never to get buzzed. I wonder as much about those who claim they get buzzed all the time. I ask this in all seriousness: Do you think some cyclists do things that piss drivers off? Do you think some tend to ride in harms way more than is really necessary? Or do you think some are so worried about the space to their right that they're not aware of things going on to their left, which, after all, is where the buzzing cars are?

define 'in harms' way.'

do you mean, 'tracking on the left lane stripe of a wide lane with approaching vehicles, slowing traffic down noticably, before moving aside to a safe lane position?'

I agree. If a bicyclist positions themself a safe distance from curb, etc, then it is NOT necessary to take the lane as a default position.

If a cyclist places themself on the road safely, they do not have to be in the middle of every lane.

Or rather, riding a safe distance from the kerb in a narrow lane is effectively claiming the lane anyway.

You don't have to ride in the centre of the lane to claim it, only far enough to leave no doubt that there's no room to pass within the lane.

Another thing - if you are claiming a narrow lane, do not do the HH thing of moving over for passing traffic. Hold your line - it's their job to pass you safely.

Why is it that (helemt head) thinks that anyone riding that way is oblivious to the road conditions? That's not a given by any stretch of the imagination.

yes, I agree with you, Allister.. Riding safely, buffered from the right, in a narrowing lane, does NOT make a rider 'oblivious' or put a rider too far right in a narrow lane. what hysterics.

define 'in harms' way.'

do you mean, 'tracking on the left lane stripe of a wide lane with approaching vehicles, slowing traffic down noticably, before moving aside to a safe lane position?'

I guess in this context I mean in some position where they are more likely to be buzzed.

Why is it that you think that anyone riding that way is oblivious to the road conditions? That's not a given by any stretch of the imagination.

Seems to me that you should be concentrating your evangelism on is oblivious riders. Lane position is not necessarily an indicator of obliviousness.
Because the same cyclist who rides a fixed "safe" distance from the curb is typically looking straight ahead, not turning his head, not looking around, not adjusting to various things he notices, not adjusting to improve sight lines and/or conspicuity as appropriate, not giving any indication that he's noticing anything about anything going on around him.

Or rather, riding a safe distance from the kerb in a narrow lane is effectively claiming the lane anyway.

You don't have to ride in the centre of the lane to claim it, only far enough to leave no doubt that there's no room to pass within the lane.

Another thing - if you are claiming a narrow lane, do not do the HH thing of moving over for passing traffic. Hold your line - it's their job to pass you safely.
Yes, you don't necessarily have to be all the way over to the very center in order to claim a lane - a "centerish" position, somewhere between the left and right tire tracks, is usually all that is required. How far left within that range varies based on various factors and conditions.

I only advocate moving over from a centerish position to allow faster traffic to pass in wide lanes - lanes wide enough to be safely shared. Having said that, even in narrow lanes, when passing is difficult for some reason, sometimes it's good to be centerish in order to be conspicuous and noticed sooner, to cause motorists to slow down, and then, after they've slowed, move aside to help them out. Although the law does not require pulling aside until 5 or more vehicles are being held up, if it's safe and reasonable to pull aside sooner, especially after your position has gotten them to slow down, which makes overtaking safer, why not?

Because the same cyclist who rides a fixed "safe" distance from the curb is typically looking straight ahead, not turning his head, not looking around, not adjusting to various things he notices, not adjusting to improve sight lines and/or conspicuity as appropriate, not giving any indication that he's noticing anything about anything going on around him.

LOL. That's what the 'typical' cyclist does is it?

Even if your claims match reality, which you and I have no real way of knowing without stopping and interviewing these 'typical' cyclists, an equally pausible explanation could be that they're simply holding a stable predictable line. Just because you don't think they're not 'noticing anything about anything going on' doesn't mean that's actually the case.

I only advocate moving over from a centerish position to allow faster traffic to pass in wide lanes - lanes wide enough to be safely shared.

This is what I don't get. If it's wide enough to be safely shared, why move into the centre position at all?

Yes I've read all your 'reasons' in that other post, but they all imply it's less safe to be in the 'margins' than in the centre. So do you think it's safe to ride to ride to the side in a wide lane or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

This is what I don't get. If it's wide enough to be safely shared, why move into the centre position at all?
See the book Cyclecraft, by John Franklin. In short, it's to be in drivers' primary zones of attention, to be more conspicuous, and to improve sight lines and safety buffers with respect to potential crossing movement hazards in front of you.

Yes I've read all your 'reasons' in that other post, but they all imply it's less safe to be in the 'margins' than in the centre. So do you think it's safe to ride to ride to the side in a wide lane or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Clearly define "safe" as it applies in this context and then I will happily answer.