A few people have said (directly to me or someone else) that in order to improve a person's aerobic efficiency, they need to exercise at a lower exertion level (measured in HR around 120bpm). This will improve their body's ability to process oxygen and then result in greater dividends in racing (my goal).
This seems counter-intuitive to me and I was wondering what the collective wisdom of this group is regarding this.
For example, the old adage would seem correct: we race how we train. If I train slowly, I'll race slowly (or at least be more comfortable with it). It also seems more common sensical to me (at least) that if I want to raise the "ceiling" of my aerobic system (the Anaerobic threshold--AT), I should consistently train at, or past, my aerobic system's ceiling. Now I know that I cannot sustain day after day of hard LT efforts...I know I need days of recovery. But these coaches seem to want me to do these low-intensity rides throughout the winter, without ever exceeding this magic bullet of 120bpm HR (emphasis added :D). Does my aerobic system not get more efficient if I exceed this 120 mark? My AT is close to 162/163 as calculated by Karvonen (?) and confirmed during sustained, 20-minute efforts. Wouldn't I be better served by trying to raise this AT by training at it or above it, pushing it up a little? How does riding at 120 improve my aerobic system, and hence my AT?
Thoughts?
NomadVW
09-28-07, 07:43 PM
First, you don't train to raise AT (or LTHR, or threshold heart rate, or whatever it is going to be called). You train to increase power at that heart rate. Heart rate at threshold basically is what it is, plus or minus a couple beats per minute. (For instance, last year my "LTHR" was 177. This year it's still 177ish, but I can put out nearly 50 more watts @ threshold)
Aerobic training does not mean SLOW miles, it means steady miles, typically @ around the top of L2, in power. That roughly equates to the middle of Friel's L2 heart rate zone. However, the amount of time necessary to gain benefit from that zone is significantly higher than training in higher zones - you just get the benefit of "typically" reduced fatigue.
I think you'll find that unless you have an unlimited riding schedule, you're better served doing threshold improvement workouts 2-3 times per week, with L2 rides to supplement that time, almost using them as recovery. The most popular current method is Sweet Spot Training. The point of training in the sweet spot is to maximize threshold benefits with the least amount of fatigue. Training in the sweet spot in heart rate zones is the top end of L3, bottom end of L4 for heart rate (and power for that matter).
ericgu
09-29-07, 08:26 PM
A few people have said (directly to me or someone else) that in order to improve a person's aerobic efficiency, they need to exercise at a lower exertion level (measured in HR around 120bpm). This will improve their body's ability to process oxygen and then result in greater dividends in racing (my goal).
This seems counter-intuitive to me and I was wondering what the collective wisdom of this group is regarding this.
For example, the old adage would seem correct: we race how we train. If I train slowly, I'll race slowly (or at least be more comfortable with it). It also seems more common sensical to me (at least) that if I want to raise the "ceiling" of my aerobic system (the Anaerobic threshold--AT), I should consistently train at, or past, my aerobic system's ceiling. Now I know that I cannot sustain day after day of hard LT efforts...I know I need days of recovery. But these coaches seem to want me to do these low-intensity rides throughout the winter, without ever exceeding this magic bullet of 120bpm HR (emphasis added :D). Does my aerobic system not get more efficient if I exceed this 120 mark? My AT is close to 162/163 as calculated by Karvonen (?) and confirmed during sustained, 20-minute efforts. Wouldn't I be better served by trying to raise this AT by training at it or above it, pushing it up a little? How does riding at 120 improve my aerobic system, and hence my AT?
Thoughts?
I mostly agree with your coaches, though I disagree slightly.
There are two parts of the aerobic system you can work on. The first is the base, and you work on that with base miles. That's what your coaches are prescribing, though I think that 120 BPM as a threshold is likely a little too low (Carmichael, for example, would say that you shouldn't exceed about 150 for more than 5% of your ride (that's a guess based on the numbers you give)).
The second part involves pushing your AT to a higher percentage of your max HR. That is normally done through intervals.
While there is some value to working out near your AT - with tempo rides very near AT or over/under work - you don't need too much of it.
The reason your coach wants you to spend the winter riding at limited heart rates is because it takes a long time to make changes in aerobic capacity.
mkadam68
09-30-07, 02:15 PM
First, you don't train to raise AT (or LTHR, or threshold heart rate, or whatever it is going to be called). You train to increase power at that heart rate. Heart rate at threshold basically is what it is, plus or minus a couple beats per minute. (For instance, last year my "LTHR" was 177. This year it's still 177ish, but I can put out nearly 50 more watts @ threshold)
Aerobic training does not mean SLOW miles, it means steady miles, typically @ around the top of L2, in power. That roughly equates to the middle of Friel's L2 heart rate zone. However, the amount of time necessary to gain benefit from that zone is significantly higher than training in higher zones - you just get the benefit of "typically" reduced fatigue.
I think you'll find that unless you have an unlimited riding schedule, you're better served doing threshold improvement workouts 2-3 times per week, with L2 rides to supplement that time, almost using them as recovery. The most popular current method is Sweet Spot Training. The point of training in the sweet spot is to maximize threshold benefits with the least amount of fatigue. Training in the sweet spot in heart rate zones is the top end of L3, bottom end of L4 for heart rate (and power for that matter).
Thanks for the info. I looked "Sweet Spot" up and did my best to understand it. Basically, I think it says I have to find where my maximum HR where I am still efficient, then train there to improve it...? It looks like this is around zone 3-4 for most people. Zone 3-4 would be a little higher than 120bpm HR, though.
You're also saying that one cannot change their AT, only improve the efficiency (power output) at that point. Correct?
BTW, I do only interval train 1x a week. Once a week, I also work on my ability to maintain my speed, getting at or near my AT and staying there for about 60mins. Then during the racing season, race on Sat or Sun. All other rides are certainly within myself, not exceeding my threshold.
ericgu
09-30-07, 09:59 PM
Thanks for the info. I looked "Sweet Spot" up and did my best to understand it. Basically, I think it says I have to find where my maximum HR where I am still efficient, then train there to improve it...? It looks like this is around zone 3-4 for most people. Zone 3-4 would be a little higher than 120bpm HR, though.
You're also saying that one cannot change their AT, only improve the efficiency (power output) at that point. Correct?
BTW, I do only interval train 1x a week. Once a week, I also work on my ability to maintain my speed, getting at or near my AT and staying there for about 60mins. Then during the racing season, race on Sat or Sun. All other rides are certainly within myself, not exceeding my threshold.
You can move the AT - perhaps you can move it from 80% of max HR to 85% of max HR.
You can also increase power at a given HR, both by increase stroke volume of your heart (more blood pumped) and by better efficiency (more oxygen in the blood better use of the oxygen).